OT: Terry Bradshaw is not a Saban Fan...calls his salary "Shamefull"
Hall of Famer Terry Bradshaw was on "Pete" Finebaum's show debating with a die-hard Bama fan when he went off. Terry is NOT a fan of Saban in any way, declaring Saban hates people, and Steve Spurrier was a better coach based on personality.
Link: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2017/05/25/terry-bradshaw-c…
And how much does Terry make to watch football games??? STFU Terry.
Bradshaw is also not an employee at a public educational instution.
Eff Saban
With this guy, and I can't understand 90% of what he says:
I know it's not technically, but calling Saban and Harbaugh employees of 'public education institutions' always sounds a little disingenuous. Yes, they technically work for Alabama/Michigan, but they work for an independent subsidiary of that institution that more than pays its own way. People often like to cry about them being public employees to shame their salaries, when really they are worth as much or more than they make now
Exactly. Saban is way underpaid. What he's done for Alabama goes far beyond the football field (where his salary already has more than paid off for that AD), he's singlehandedly risen the academic profile of the school. It's by no means a great school, but compared to the Ole Miss's and LSU's of the world (where it used to be), increased nationwide interest in Alabama has made a noticable academic impact.
Harbaugh doesn't have to make a similar academic impact given our inherited standing, but he still has already more than paid off in money flowing into the AD at zero cost to the academic side of the institution.
Agreed - if Saban was able to be given options on the profile, academic credibility and enrollment of a school, he would have made much, much more. Anyone who thinks Alabama (University and State) has not gained appreciably net of the cost of his salary, they are just wrong.
100%. I like Terry and don't mind him getting opinionated, and I'm not a Saban fan, but Saban has absolutely earned that money and pays for himself. Even if you didn't consider increased department revenue, ticket sales (they've expanded the stadium, remember), raised profile of the university, etc, you just need to consider that there are boosters who will pay his salary outright if they needed to.
How exactly has Saban raised the acedemic profile of the university? I'm not saying he hasn't - this is the first I've heard anything like that, and I wouldn't have thought that is a common, natural by-product of a successful football program. Am I just obtuse, or has Saban done something beyond the norm to bring that about at Bama?
When your football team wins, your school receives more applications. When your school receives more applications, admission departments can be more selective. If they have the opportunity to be more selective, they can admit students from all over the world with higher test scores. When your students have higher test scores, that raises your academic profile.
academics. NYT article from last year is below.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/06/education/edlife/survival-strategies…
It is true --- when schools are relatively equal in a high school student's mind, things like "how much fun are football games to attend" and "overall campus experience" can put one school over the top. Alabama's trying to get better students with a combination of (1) the push from the administrative side, to improve academics, plus (2) leveraging the successful football team.
"that more than pays its own way"
This is true at Alabama and Michigan and some other places.
But what about nearly $500k to be the coach at Eastern Michigan? These are public institutions and at plenty of places, that means taxpayer and tuition dollars are being spent on high salaries.
Plenty of us understand how it works just fine. To either say or imply that a high salary doesn't contribute to the overall cost of things would be completely dishonest.
It's hard to quantify what FBS / D1 athletics brings to a school though. I know Eastern is the quintissential example of wasting money on football, but what if they dropped D1 athletics altogether? The draw of big time athletics has a real impact on the number of applicants a school sees, the academic profile of the school, the total tuition dollars coming in, etc.
In many cases, paying a HC a million a year at a Power 5 school is worth it. It's nothing in the grand scheme of a major university budget.
The Athletics Department at UM is not an independent subsidiary. The Regents of the University of Michigan is Harbaugh's employer not the Athletic Department. While the Athletic Department does not draw funds from the University's General Fund, that is simply a result of the AD generating enough revenue to fund its expenditures. That's no different than other University departments that generate enough funds to support their budget.
Harbaugh is undoubtedly an employee of a public education instutition. The Athletic Director is his boss and the AD reports directly to the President. They are all answerable to the Board of Regents, who are publicly elected officials. Lastly, could you imagine how much Bill Belicheck would be worth if Tom Brady and crew were paid in room and board and graduate degrees? When the labor's free, the pie is much larger to share with the few actual employees.
I suspect you are taking the "independent subsidiary" statement a bit too literally. No, the legal documents involved are not the same. But he is referring to the fact that big-time athletics operates out of a different pool of money with different pressures and different benefits than the university at large.
And that's important, since we're discussing whether or not a "public employee" is worth the kind of money they are being paid. Some people get frustrated that the football coach's salary dwarfs the salaries of well-reputed professors, for example.
But the reason that happens at places like Michigan and Alabama is because those football coaches are drawing salary from a separate source of revenue, a source of revenue that may not exist if they are not successful at their jobs.
If there were millions upon millions of dollars of donations and advertising and ticket sales that depended upon a school's ranking in US News, the school would spend millions of dollars on salaries to ensure a high ranking.
But there aren't. The millions are dependent upon success in a baker's dozen or so of football games every autumn.
Thus the "subsidiary" comment.
If paying Saban Wasn't worth it then they wouldn't pay him, it's pretty basic.There are a lot of things that could be called "shameful" about sports lol, funny Terry picked Sabans salary as an example.
you defending Saban now Yo_Blue??
The article seems a poor summary of the discussion. Is it shameful because he's a public employee? Is it because other schools can't afford to pay their HC the same? Is it because the players aren't paid, or because Saban isn't likeable? Is it a combo of all of these? Is it because Terry's house is a trailer? I'm not sure Bradshaw has a point, and the article does little to shed light on the supposed point. This is a good example of click bait, no?
You will not find a single Bama fan anywhere upset with how much Saban makes, unless he loses a couple more national title games.
Anyone who rips anything to do with the sec on finebaums show is fine by me.
Saban's value to Alabama far exceeds his salary. This is a typical rant by Bradshaw, he's been doing this for years. Let's move forward
People are worth whatever others are willing to pay. I cannot stand it when folks complain about how much money others make.
I think this is all part of the just world fallacy--some people have an annoying tendency to conflate a person's salary with the inherent value of the work they do. To them, Saban isn't "worth" $7 million a year (or whatever he makes) because coaching football isn't as important as various other things for which people are paid signficantly less. But to paraphrase Bono, "the god I believe in doesn't substitute a supply & demand chart for genuine virtue, mister."
Except when it's a CEO.
The market is dictated by ex CEOs and personal friends in the industry who make up the board. It's a rotating board to CEO back to board type of thing. They all sign off on eachothers salary and are on the boards of the other companies (which they get paid more than you or I per year for as well). Many ex-CEO's and even acting CEOs are on the boards of other companies. It's some pretty greasy shit. Meanwhile all of us drones see less and less pay increases every year.
Anywho, anybody watching Dancing with the Stars tonight?
*blows brains out*
I work for a major corporation. Everyone's salaries are more or less determined by market up to a certain level. When you reach that executive level, it's all a joke. I'm on your board, you're on my board. Let's all pay each other 5 mil a year
And dont forget about stock options !!! :)))))))
Never change, dude.
My experience is that [people who say "the market is the market" don't understand what "the market" really is.
Coaches' salaries are partially driven by the market, but mostly by non-market forces like prestige, anxiety avoidance, ignorance of alternatives, regulations, and the availability of massive amounts of cash that can't be spent rationally.
Exactly. Some people get paid vastly different amounts for the same work. Additionally, the person paid less could be more valuable to the company (efficiency and all that) so you are spot on that worth does not equal salary.
Dumb argument by Bradshaw. Saban is probably the most underpayed coach in football in terms of how much money he brings into their program and the whole SEC.
I hate Saban. Let me make that clear by repeating, I FUCKING HATE SABAN. I think he is a cheating scum bag who would kill a loved one to win a football game.
Having gotten that out of the way...
10 years at Bama, with 5 NC game appearances, 4 NC wins, and (after his first year) nothing worse than 3 losses and a #10 ranking to end the season? From a cost-benefit perspective, he is worth almost anything they pay him. $20 to $30 million a year wouldn't be ridiculous, actually.
20 - 30 mil?
Slow down there cowboy. Don't forget how much money is spent on getting Satan all those players. Hiring parents, buying cars, rims, gift cards, money handshakes, player expense accounts, strippers etc. Bama has a "salary cap" situation to deal..
You do know that SEC stands for SalarE Cap.. right?
Steve Spurrier has a better personality as a recent coach at a major school than anyone except for maybe Harbaugh and Mike Leach. He was hilarious both at Florida and at USC (NTUSC) and had great success at Florida to the chagrin of most other schools. Also, like Harbaugh, opposing fanbases resented his style greatly.
So Bradshaw wins that argument by default.
As far as Saban hating people, I honestly don't know. But his personality ... ain't great.
I love what Harbaugh does but his personality is meh, especially in interviews. Some of them are painful to watch with how awkward he can be. Love our coach, don't get me wrong. I just don't like watching him in one-on-one interviews as you can tell he never really wants to be there.
It depends on the time of year, and who's interviewing him. If he's under the stress of the season, he can be very stilted. And if he dislikes the interviewer (or the interviewer is doing a bad job), he can be a touch frosty.
But if it's the offseason or if he's interviewed by a good interviewer, he comes off well, IMO. And interviews are only a portion of how one's personality is revealed. Doing stuff like trotting your team to Italy, doing 30 satellite camps in one summer, climbing trees, etc., all speak to his personality.
Net-net I think he comes off just fine. Matter of opinion, I suppose.