Signgate The Ninth: Waiting
The narrative begins to turn. Finally we have some takes in the media that properly contextualize the seriousness of The Worst Scandal In The History Of The Big Ten. I recommend the entirety of this Dan Wetzel piece:
In Michigan’s case, the “advanced scouts” were Stalions’ band of iPhone-toting buddies.
In Purdue’s case, the “advanced scouts” were the professional coaching staffs of two other Big Ten teams that had just played the Wolverines, and thus could battle-test the signs they stole as accurate.
Which would you rather have? Raw cell phone footage that still needs to be broken down, or highly experienced coaches just handing over their work?
Everyone would choose the Purdue option.
Even if Ohio State and Rutgers acquired Michigan signs via NCAA-legal game film or during game action, it doesn’t matter. Purdue didn’t do that work. The Boilermakers received stolen signs from advanced scouting. They cheated as much as Michigan.
Wetzel was properly incredulous about Tony Petitti's reported statements on his podcast with Pat Forde, and since Forde has been one of the media's leading hanging judges I appreciate this exchange:
Wetzel: “How could anyone be the commissioner of a major conference and take this and say that?
— Clayton Sayfie (@CSayf23) November 8, 2023
“How does somebody say that? That’s going to show up in a lawsuit. I don’t get it. Somebody make that statement make sense to me.”
Petitti's tenure as commissioner is going to be short. Next time hire someone who knows things about sports and have the TV guy be second in command. Also recommended: the discussion at the start of the Cover 3 podcast:
People who think this is a big deal are dwindling to MSU/OSU/PSU fans and guys like Finebaum who are in it for the clicks.
[After THE JUMP: decision day is tomorrow]
Why did you do that? Permit myself to quote, uh, myself:
"Why did you do it?" is going to be on Connor Stalions gravestone
— mgoblog (@mgoblog) November 7, 2023
There is an astounding difference between the apparent reaction of Big Ten head coaches—kill 'em all and let God sort it out—and actual sign stealers. The latter group is perplexed as to why anyone would bother, because there is no need to go to those lengths:
“This is not like the Astros,” he said. “This was all obtained legitimately. We’ve been really good at it (stealing signals), getting stuff off of TV copy. People didn’t go to sites (to obtain intel). We did it legally, like stealing it from the third base coach.”
And it provides approximately no advantage:
The staffer involved in decoding the Wolverines signals said he doesn’t buy that the way Stalions and Michigan allegedly gathered their intel actually gave them much of an advantage over the way other teams usually do it. Or that they actually needed this.
“Michigan didn’t have to do it to win,” he said. “That’s the f—ed up thing. It’s still about blocking and tackling. That’s why they didn’t have to do it. They’re really talented. They are better than Penn State, and they are better than Ohio State. They can legitimately win it all.”
Connor Stalions went to great effort to break NCAA rules and should be given a show cause. Michigan's program benefited from this in almost no way whatsoever and should be left alone to beat heads in.
Looks like we're D-1. Tony Petitti is widely expected to do whatever he's going to do tomorrow. Josh Henschke and Sam Webb both make it sound like the previous draconian punishments—suspending Harbaugh until the NCAA investigation finishes was floated—are unlikely. Webb headlined his latest piece "Punishment talks progressing, but not enough." Petitti can issue a two-game suspension without escalating it to the Big Ten ADs, and that sounds like what he's going to attempt.
All indications are that if Petitti does levy a suspension Michigan is going to court. They've has hired a law firm that I've never heard of but people who have are like "oh dang really?"
Michigan hired probably the #1 law firm there is for this. Some small alums from WC include: Prominent alumni of the firm include:
— John Berry, Esq. (@JohnBerryDC) November 8, 2023
Elena Kagan, Associate Justice of the United States Supreme Court
Brett Kavanaugh, Associate Justice of the United States Supreme Court
Gregory…
FAFO time. Rittenberg and Murphy have an article at ESPN that seems fairly well informed about what Michigan will argue:
Michigan likely will argue that the Big Ten had agreed to monitor the NCAA investigation and await its results, and only intervened as a response to pressure from competitors within the conference. The Big Ten did not initiate its own investigation, which the sportsmanship policy allows, and has essentially been relying on information from various sources during an ongoing external probe. The information about Michigan only surfaced weeks ago, and college athletics have a long history of much more serious infractions that have taken much longer to be resolved. …
The league's own handbook also could be cited in the defense for Michigan/Harbaugh. In the "Enforcement Policies and Procedures" section, there is a heading for "NCAA Initiated Cases." The handbook notes that the Big Ten's Compliance and Reinstatement Committee, not the commissioner, would review any potential NCAA violations by one of its members.
The entry reads: "Where the NCAA initiates a preliminary or official inquiry with a member university the Conference will cooperate with university and NCAA representatives in the processing of that case through the normal NCAA investigation, hearing and appeal processes. While the case will be processed through normal NCAA channels, the Conference Compliance and Reinstatement Committee shall review the case and may impose additional penalties, if warranted, subsequent to the NCAA action."
Attorneys for Michigan and/or Harbaugh could argue that the Big Ten isn't following its own rules in letting a "normal NCAA investigation" play out, and is acting ahead of the NCAA, rather than imposing discipline "subsequent to the NCAA action." The Big Ten will keep pointing to its sportsmanship policy, but Michigan could argue that this case, initiated by the NCAA, falls under a different category.
You'll note this is virtually identical to what user rym posted yesterday:
In investigations initiated by the NCAA, the Big Ten rules require the conference to wait for the NCAA investigation and any appeals to be finished and for the NCAA to levy a penalty first, at which time the Big Ten can choose to pile on (key language italicized):
32.2.2(C) NCAA Initiated Cases. The Compliance and Reinstatement Subcommittee shall review violations by member universities as determined by the NCAA and may impose penalties in addition to those imposed by the NCAA for any violations.
1. Where the NCAA initiates a preliminary or official inquiry with a member university the Conference will cooperate with university and NCAA representatives in the processing of that case through the normal NCAA investigation, hearing and appeal processes.
2. While the case will be processed through normal NCAA channels, the Conference Compliance and Reinstatement Subcommittee shall review the case and may impose additional penalties, if warranted, subsequent to the NCAA action.
That provision is unambiguous and lists no exceptions. There is no rule in the conference handbook that would allow the Commissioner to bypass the NCAA (and the Big Ten's Compliance and Reinstatement Subcommittee) because the Commissioner feels peer-pressured to act quickly.
Never get in a land war in Asia, and never get in a pedantry competition with the University of Michigan.
Etc.: Henschke reports that the weird Corum-Stalions LLC lists Corum as an organizer but Corum did not sign anything, undoubtedly because he has no idea about this totally sick collab. Sign stealing in basketball happens, too. RGIII isn't having it. These are good tweets.
November 8th, 2023 at 7:09 PM ^
Yeah, in a normal universe, here's how this plays out:
- CS suspended, inquiry/invest. commences
- CS fired/resigned b/t here and 4.
- B10/NCAA finds that nothing extended beyond CS (no evidence otherwise), finds other schools to the equivalent, if not exactly the same
- NCAA says firing is sufficient as M cooperated with all inquires, (as M always does)
- B10 levies $10k fine and amends rules (with NCAA) about sign stealing/sharing/etc. Arm bands and remote comms installed everywhere
- End of stroy
This is a, 'small fine and lets settle what we want the rules to be going forward' level offense. If that.
What should be more concerning is that A PI firm was hired to investigate a fellow conf member. THat is NOT good for the health of the conference and will be the catalyst for its downfall. Why no one else is concerned about that is beyond me
November 8th, 2023 at 2:59 PM ^
Can we get a t-shirt: "Reading this is not stealing. Nor is it scandalous." Maybe some fine print on the back of the list of conference scandals that are, apparently, lesser than this: Sandusky, Fitzgerald, Smith, Tucker... on and on and on...
November 8th, 2023 at 3:01 PM ^
“I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve.”—Adm Yamamoto, Tora!Tora!Tora!
November 8th, 2023 at 4:25 PM ^
Admiral Yamamoto, shot down by P-38's designed by Wolverine Kelly Johnson (BSE, MS, Aeronautical Eng., Michigan).
November 8th, 2023 at 3:01 PM ^
what if Harbaugh coaches while suspended in an act of protest? What will the B1G do?
November 8th, 2023 at 3:17 PM ^
What if UM told the B1G, "Sure, we will fire Jim Harbaugh from the Head coaching position at Michigan, now go away.", then proceeded to immediately hire him for more money than any head coach in the B1G as the "CEO of football"?
November 8th, 2023 at 4:06 PM ^
I was thinking the same thing. If it happens this weekend it's on PSU.
Harbaugh arrives at the field with the team--->
PSU walksoff the game and it is cancelled?
PSU plays the game but under protest?
Somehow Harbaugh is physically prevented from being there?
--->Michigan walks off the field?
November 8th, 2023 at 3:04 PM ^
I was thinking today that Michigan may be playing this wrong, and we ought to lean into the Ohio State narrative that the sign stealing beat them and Michigan had nothing to do with it.
If you agree with Ohio State on this, this changes from a "Michigan cheated" story to the greatest David vs Goliath story in sports history.
$110 million dollar Ohio State football machine completely dismantled by used vacuum salesman who spent $15k to utterly decimate the Buckeyes.
Michigan football were bystanders to this evisceration.
November 8th, 2023 at 3:04 PM ^
First of all, it needs to be said that there is nobody in the world better at addressing this stuff than Brian.
Totally agree that hiring the TV exec to run the conference is proving to be incredibly stupid. As Brian has pointed out a number of times, any monkey could land big TV deals for the Big Ten. Get somebody real who knows athletics to run the conference, make the TV guy your #2...or don't, you're getting piles of cash either way.
And how about "sequestering the other 13 coaches, and then doing the same for the athletic directors, and allowing them to vent and rant their idiotic (and hypocritical) grievances" is the ACTUAL "worst scandal in the history of the conference"? This is an incredibly unfair act that has probably been the biggest factor in driving this nonsense to this level. This act alone is disqualifying and firable. People in charge of things...
November 8th, 2023 at 3:07 PM ^
Every single one of these coaches is a lying fucking scumbag. The pearl clutching over something they do themselves (steal signs).
The lies about health and safety.
The lies about CS giving UM an advantage when they are compiling and sharing exactly the same type of information.
Where is the fucking outrage over their behavior? Yes, being an opportunistic asshole is not an NCAA violation. That doesn't mean you have to condone or accept it.
November 8th, 2023 at 3:20 PM ^
Given the very real concerns that one can have about football when it comes to health and safety, I find that argument particularly noxious. I don't see how it makes any sense even if you put aside the prevalence of sign stealing. Is the idea that the offensive player wouldn't have been tackled at all but for Michigan having his team's signs?
November 8th, 2023 at 4:14 PM ^
"this is Sparta'" Uhhh...it's Lansing, Mork.
November 8th, 2023 at 3:08 PM ^
Well, I dunno if Stallions exploited a loophole or if he actually broke NCAA rules. I have no idea if Michigan will even pursue that argument, but I'll leave it to the attorneys to decide. I'm surprised that you have not heard of the law firm, as it is known as a highly connected and respected law firm.
As for the Big Ten, I cannot believe that they would pursue any action that does not conform to their own bylaws. Certainly in house counsel would suggest that the Commissioner not go down that road.
To date, no one on the Michigan coaching staff has been implicated in Stallions' actions. If ultimately found to be in violation of rules, I doubt that Michigan will only be left to bang their collective heads against the wall. A suspension of a coach would seem to be out of proportion to the nature of the "crime", but I would bet that some type of punishment will be inflicted upon the program.
Given the recent reports concerning other Big Ten programs, one would think that Big Ten sportsmanship rules will be equally applied, even if the NCAA does not become involved.
I am a multi-decade season ticket holder and committed fan, but my intricate knowledge of the game is relatively pitiful when compared with someone like Seth, but common sense tells me that there has to be SOME advantage associated with sign stealing or else no one would bother with the endeavor.
November 8th, 2023 at 3:10 PM ^
Pffft. There goes RGIII thinking for himself, employing logic and reason. He obviously needs to be sent to the Torch and Pitchfork Re-education Center.
November 8th, 2023 at 11:28 PM ^
He can never be against the team that gave him Orji in the endzone.
November 8th, 2023 at 3:15 PM ^
Once again, Pettiti's career as a CEO administrator is on the line and I can't believe he doesn't know it. He'd be too stupid not to see it. And he got pretty far to get where he is.
If he makes a move against M his career at this height will be over and he'll be back to being a high earning lackey forever.
You don't bend to mob pressure as a Boss and keep your authority over your subordinates for long. In the end, even if you give them what they thought they wanted they will stop respecting you because you folded. And you will lose all control.
This is why I think ESPN and all those media hacks keep posting "Big Ten Suspension Imminent" and such bullshit merely because they see it as their LAST remaining avenue to keep this story alive. Because the NCAA has passed on that lead for now. And there's no new facts against M or Harbaugh coming.
So more than anything let's see how dumb Pettiti is. ESPECIALLY as M is so close to playing Ohio. If he fucks with that game in any way his career is OVER. He will go down as a failed administrator at the level of Larry Scott - only for masterfully killing his own career while Scott killed his conference.
November 8th, 2023 at 3:18 PM ^
I had been thinking that it was UM/homer bias to equate Station's in-person taping with Purdue coaches passing along signs, that the former was against specific rules and the latter, though sleazy, was legal.
Not necessarily. There's this from the Matt Swartz tweet that Brian links at the end.
"there's literally nothing in the scouting bylaws about "electronics," "filming," etc.; if sharing/receiving signs that were scouted in-person is legal, then what Michigan/Stalions is broadly accused of is also legal, because they're the same. can't have it both ways."
November 8th, 2023 at 3:20 PM ^
https://sports.yahoo.com/greg-schiano-responds-espn-report-173109026.html
Schiano's response when asked about Rutgers's connection:
“I’m getting ready to play the twenty-second ranked in the country at their place. They are 12-3, I think, in their last 15 games. They are 15-1 in the month of November,” Schiano said.
“I’m very confident in the way we handle our business. I’m not going to get into specifics that are not my issue. This is not my issue. I’ll let the people handle it whose issue it is.”
Quite interesting that his staffers are not his issue, but apparently Jim's staff is? Huh.
November 8th, 2023 at 3:33 PM ^
When his coaching career fizzles out, he should look into politics. That self-righteous non-answer is straight out of Politician CYA 101.
November 8th, 2023 at 4:18 PM ^
Honestly, it could be kind of true. Like, he has a sign stealer; the sign stealers talk to each other across teams; this activity is common but not regulated by coaches.
November 9th, 2023 at 2:32 PM ^
What you describe sounds like it falls under the head coach omniscience rule. Similar with Day and shared sign "decoding" (funny how it's only stealing when M does it). I get the impression, however, that the omniscience rule only applies to Harbaugh.
November 8th, 2023 at 3:28 PM ^
Pleasantly surprised to see the Cover 3 guys come out and laugh at this scandal. I don't always love their takes but those guys nailed it. They basically said what we all know- this is a joke of a scandal if its at almost any other schools and its mainly churned by people wanting to take Harbaugh & Michigan down now. Great 10 minutes of listen there
November 8th, 2023 at 3:30 PM ^
I love that Michigan didn't go for the Tom Mars type here that sports people understand, but went for the big boys that the law people understand. When the lawyers go "oh shit," then you're in some actual trouble.
November 8th, 2023 at 4:30 PM ^
Tom Mars might be Harbaugh's personal lawyer. Could be Michigan and Harbaugh himself sue.
November 8th, 2023 at 3:33 PM ^
How does Stallions get hired by the football program? Who sponsored that guy?
November 8th, 2023 at 4:50 PM ^
He showed an uncanny ability to do what other schools do, but better. I doubt anyone really asked many questions about the how since it looks like it is pervasive in the B1G if not the entire NCAA.
November 8th, 2023 at 3:41 PM ^
Weasel out or Solomonic decision?….suspend Stalions 2 games ( his choice of school) and $10,000 payable in cash or vacuum cleaners.
November 8th, 2023 at 3:47 PM ^
I'm not naming names here so as not to go political, but to note a broader correlation to what we will likely see tomorrow.
This week a counter protester in London got hit with a flag pole by someone in the larger group of protesters. Instead of going after the person perp, the police pulled the victim aside and forced him to curb his behavior and leave the area. When the victim asked why the police were not going after the perp an officer said "we are trying to keep the peace and there are a lot more of them than there are of us." Implying that the main group was much larger than the present police force, and there is only one of you, victim, so you are the easy target to solving this problem.
This is what will go down tomorrow. Petitti will cave to the mob of 13 other ADs to "keep the peace" because there are a lot more of them than there are of him and Michigan, and it's easier to appease the mob by curbing one program than to do the right thing and let due process play out.
Will not be remotely surprising given that a large percentage of people that rise to prestigious elected or appointed positions are singularly self-centered on what is best for themselves and no one else, where doing the right thing is an optional calculation.
November 8th, 2023 at 4:17 PM ^
How many pissed off Michigan alums does he thing there are? Think it's more than 13 and they are the aggrieved.
November 8th, 2023 at 5:14 PM ^
Truly. Sorely aggrieved.
November 8th, 2023 at 4:47 PM ^
If that is the decision he makes, he is not doing the calculus right. This is akin to 13 smaller countries starting a war with a super power. It's not going to end well.
November 8th, 2023 at 5:02 PM ^
I doubt that.
November 8th, 2023 at 7:16 PM ^
If this is really what goes down, there is no reasons to remain in the B10, or any conference for that matter.
This is digusting. The B10 has been the tightest conference that exemplifies unity more than any other IMO. Or maybe it was a facade.
November 8th, 2023 at 3:49 PM ^
Brian, indicated Connor broke NCAA rules.
I am still trying to figure out if he actually broke any NCAA rules. My understanding is only if he actually attended other games and scouted, which is as of yet to be proven.
I believe you can have people video tape via a phone camera, as long as it is not a commercial entity. Is this incorrect?
November 8th, 2023 at 5:20 PM ^
Probably the CMU thing, which the precedent is a one game suspension. (for the staffer, not the head coach)
November 8th, 2023 at 7:49 PM ^
It’s even doubtful if that was a rule break. Word is, CMU was in on it and hence Michigan could easily say he was acting as a CMU staffer at that time.
November 8th, 2023 at 3:56 PM ^
Paging Mr. Petitti: You have now reached the "And Find Out" stage of the old adage. Please, prepare to be summarily dismissed.
November 8th, 2023 at 4:01 PM ^
It appears Michigan is prepared both legally & PR wise to go scorched earth on the B1G. They have actually managed to piss off Michigan’s President, Coaches, AD, players, Faculty, and alumni to bring this about. We took our lumps on Hamburger Gate and were not too happy about it as NCAA still has not issued any findings. The Big Guns have been rolled out, and there is not an ounce of bluffing to say that they will be used.
November 8th, 2023 at 4:02 PM ^
Sam said it best … the B1G is fuck all without Meechigan… FOXs money counters know what the biggest ratings are for their B1G games … be careful what you want to do fuckhead aka pettit
November 8th, 2023 at 4:06 PM ^
A portion from a little newsletter I wrote....
"It is interesting that the only reason in-person scouting was outlawed by the NCAA was “… to promote equity for programs that couldn’t afford to send scouts to other games” and it refers to coaches (but these same programs can afford to pay millions to coaches who no longer work for them). The bylaw is specific to student assistants and coaches, not staffers nor unaffiliated volunteers. The “scouts” appear to be attending voluntarily and without payment by or with the knowledge of Michigan. Filming is only outlawed through a rule for in-game use – i.e. in the game that is currently being played. So the violation stretch here is that a non employee, non-student assistant, non coach is considered an in-person employee of the University of Michigan football program and that the filming of the sidelines constitutes same day filming of the current game which will actually be played in the future. Yeah."
November 8th, 2023 at 4:10 PM ^
Steal it from 3rd base is a veiled confession of getting it from Ryan Day.
November 8th, 2023 at 4:12 PM ^
They've has hired a law firm that I've never heard of but people who have are like "oh dang really?"
Yeah, Williams & Connelly has long been considered the best in the business for white collar/investigations work, and excellent litigators. They are very good, and they are very expensive.
November 8th, 2023 at 5:16 PM ^
Investigations work, you say? Interesting.
November 8th, 2023 at 4:13 PM ^
lol. this is all going to end up as a fart in a windstorm, but sparties and ohio state will bitch about it forever.
November 8th, 2023 at 4:14 PM ^
My fear is that Petitti hands down the suspension on Friday, which is a national holiday for courts so M cannot get an injunction/stay/whatever the legal phrase is to allow CJH to coach on Saturday. Hopefully someone in the legal profession can assuage this concern?
November 8th, 2023 at 5:22 PM ^
TRO's can be signed at any time, the court doesn't need to be open, haven't you ever seen a movie where they wake up a judge in the middle of the night to get a quick ruling? It's kinda like that.
November 8th, 2023 at 10:08 PM ^
And when it comes to judges, Harbaugh is connected:
November 8th, 2023 at 4:14 PM ^
sorry if this has already been addressed somewhere
November 8th, 2023 at 4:18 PM ^
Sounds like the jerk is going to suspend Harbaugh for 2 games. I hope Michigan can get hold of a judge before the PSU game.
November 8th, 2023 at 4:23 PM ^
The other question is, does Michigan get to decide what two games Harbaugh serves his suspension. Lets say they let him coach the PSU game and that gives more time for the big court battle next week before the Maryland game.
Comments