Final Four fluff from Ramzy
One of many nice things about a Michigan trip to the Final Four is watching the attempted non-reaction from our friend(s) to the south.
For me, if there was an Final Four that included a B1G team that was not Michigan, I am relatively certain that the B1G team would hold my rooting interest. Because I am a conference loyalist, in precisely the way that Ramzy Nasrallah (and his readership, apparently) are not. I am a conference loyalist because of the likes of Ramzy Nasrallah and OSU.
It's a special sort of butt-hurt to go into a Final Four weekend -- where you have no other personal interests -- and not root for the team from your conference. As his exception-that-proves-the-rule, Ramzy picked the perfectly rotten example of his having rooted for Wisconsin to knock off Duke in the 2015 Championship game, because Duke and everybody hates Duke and yeah Duke.
But would it have been different if the Badgers had played Kentucky? North Carolina? Kansas? Butler? Loyola-Chicago? The Washington Generals? I say; if right now, the Final Four included Loyola-Chicago, Kansas, Villanova and The Ohio State University, I'd be rooting for Ohio State (and figuring out if any local golf courses were playable this weekend). One thing I wouldn't be doing is advising Michigan fans to not root for The Ohio State University. It would be so easy -- a given, really -- that I would want the Big Ten representative to not lose to any of the other schools in that hypothetical Final Four.
The minor obsession with NOT pulling for anyone else in the Conference seems to be a peculiarly OSU thing. It is the one way -- maybe the only way -- that they desire to separate themselves from SEC culture. (And I was never too sure about how deep the "S-E-C!" thing was, throughout the SEC.)
It's really more Sparty than Sparty; MSU has more recent success in basketball than OSU (pretty much everybody has more recent success in basketball than OSU), and two (2) fewer claimed national championships in football than OSU. And yet the feel that I get is that Michigan State alums have more of a genuine academic interest in the game of basketball and some respect (however grudging) for U-M teams that make it to a Final Four. I have yet to hear from a Spartan -- excluding, perhaps, the fever swamp of RCMB -- who wants Michigan to lose to Loyola-Chicago because, "scUM." Indeed, I actually saw a terrific little post at RCMB, with basically the entire tiext reading thusly:
"Over the last 6 years UM and MSU have each won a B1G regular season championship and two tournament championships. The head to head series is tied at 6 in that span.
"In those six years, MSU has been to 3 sweet sixteens, 2 elite eights, and one final four.
"UM has been to 4 sweet sixteens, 3 elite eights, and 2 final fours."
One other wonderfully inapposite comparison made by Ramzy was suggesting that fans of the New Orleans Saints would never deign to root for the Philadelphia Eagles in a playoff run because of something like "divisional loyalty." Which actually illutstrates my point. We college football fans ought to want for nothing so much as to be unlike everything represented by the mercenary tar-pit of the NFL. The NFL doesn't have any 100-year rivalries. They don't have "conferences" in any meaningful way, outside of tv contracts and old documentaries about the '69 Jets. People root for NFL teams because the pharmaceutical company that they work for moved them to a city with a franchise.
Let's Go Blue. Win one two for the Conference.
i might push IU or ILL into the 'root' column too. i suppose there is some circumstance where i'd root for ohio, but other than maybe playing red china or ISIS, i'm not sure what that'd be. msu easier for me, but that's a family thing.
March 29th, 2018 at 11:58 AM ^
March 29th, 2018 at 11:58 AM ^
March 29th, 2018 at 12:17 PM ^
It even amazes me, sometimes, how unlike I seem to be from this demographic.
March 29th, 2018 at 12:38 PM ^
Admitting you have a problem is the first step toward a solution. ;)
It isn't a problem for me.
;-)
March 29th, 2018 at 12:01 PM ^
I never have and never will root for OSU in any situation. I have only rooted for MSU against OSU, but in reality always hoped for a zero zero tie. LOL. Fuck the rest of the conference. That is a made up by ESPN thing. Before they started touting the SEC as the best at everything, nobody used conference loyalty as a rooting guide.
March 29th, 2018 at 12:03 PM ^
I always root for an asteroid during that game
March 29th, 2018 at 12:09 PM ^
Since I can't seem to edit my original response, I will add here that no self respecting Michigan fan would ever refer to OSU as "The Ohio State University" as you did in the OP. Not cool.
March 29th, 2018 at 12:01 PM ^
March 29th, 2018 at 12:03 PM ^
except OSU Fuck them.
March 29th, 2018 at 12:04 PM ^
March 29th, 2018 at 12:07 PM ^
March 29th, 2018 at 12:07 PM ^
I will root for other teams in the conference depending on the matchup, but I will never root for MSU or OSU. In years where more than 4 teams make it to the tournament, it's fun to see how many B1G teams advance. But it's more fun to see MSU flame out three years in a row.
March 29th, 2018 at 12:09 PM ^
Duke? Sure. Pitino-led Louisville? Yep
March 29th, 2018 at 12:09 PM ^
I root for B1G teams in non-confference matchups, with the exception of OSU and MSU. If Purdue was in the FF I would be pulling for them to win it all.
March 29th, 2018 at 12:13 PM ^
Yeah fuck the big ten I'm a Michigan fan who gives a shit about anybody else.
March 29th, 2018 at 12:17 PM ^
March 29th, 2018 at 12:16 PM ^
March 29th, 2018 at 12:16 PM ^
March 29th, 2018 at 12:17 PM ^
they root for MSU or OSU in any circumstance, I say to myself, "that's nice, but you're not a real Michigan fan.
College athletics is very much about recruiting. You never want to see your rival succeed for that reason alone!
March 29th, 2018 at 12:38 PM ^
I'm an alum (3rd generation grad), a Victors Club member, and a season ticket holder for 20+ years.
I sort of thought of myself as a genuine fan. But I didn't even care too much about the "fan" part. Alum/booster was enough.
The part about "rival successes hurt us in recruiting" seems to be a peculiarly NBA/NFL kind of rationale. Like posturing your team for a lottery pick in the draft. Mathematical stuff; not cultural.
What is the line from James Earl Jones' narration of the Stadium/football video? Something like, "We believe in midwestern values... we are proud members of the Big Ten Conference in pursuit of national championships..."?
March 29th, 2018 at 12:42 PM ^
You could easily argue that being a "proud member of the Big Ten Conference" has hurt Michigan more than it has helped it, especially recently (thanks Delany!)
That said, being a proud member of the conference does not entail cheering for the other teams in said conference in sporting events. Academics? Sure. The cross-Big Ten research consortium? Neat.
Cheering for your rivals' success? Never.
Whenever Michigan needs an OSU / MSU win to accomplish a goal, I simply cheer for the other team to lose. This is rivalry.
Michigan does not need to ride OSU's coattails.
But typically fans like you don't know who the backup strong safety is. Doesn't mean they are not a fan. They're just not a FAN!
It's not personal. Just an observation that I could be wrong about.
I go to our Spring Game (and often make a few notes, while sipping a, uh, cool beverage) and if my scehdule permits, I'll go to the OSU spring game too. I go to The Game every year, even-years as well as odd.
March 29th, 2018 at 12:17 PM ^
I would root for any Big Ten team except MSU. For OSU I wouldn't give a shit, because it's basketball not football, but I wouldn't actively root for the other team like I would for MSU.
March 29th, 2018 at 12:19 PM ^
THIS is a long post.
THIS is a bad post.
THIS is a long, bad post.
March 29th, 2018 at 12:22 PM ^
They're much better than the post itself.
March 29th, 2018 at 12:24 PM ^
that I have an almost unlimited amount of indifference for any team in any sport/game other than UM with exceptions for a couple of schools of which good friends are alums and who I helped turn into quasi-UM fans. AND exceptions for fOSU, PSU and State - I'm with everyone above that says fuck them. I wish nothing but the worst for them and their shitty fans.
March 29th, 2018 at 12:27 PM ^
March 29th, 2018 at 12:31 PM ^
They are auto-delected by the mods at all times.
UNLESS:
A Michigan fan is trying to make the case to other Michigan fans that we should be rooting for....
Someone else - in an active or upcoming championship/playoff/game.
AND
Michigan has already been eliminated from that competition.
Full stop.
It makes you look like a jackass if you plead with other fans to root for us, or criticise them for failing to do so.
You first, bro......
March 29th, 2018 at 12:31 PM ^
So you were upset when MSU lost to Syracuse this year and MTSU two years ago? Pissed off when MSU and OSU got blown out in the playoffs?
March 29th, 2018 at 12:44 PM ^
a) I wasn't even watching that game, but
b) I wasn't particularly rooting for them to lose, and
c) I'd sure as hell have known who to root for if they were on the same floor as Michigan.
I'm not nearly so invested in this rooting for/against thing as many of you are, in actively rooting against MSU/OSU (and who even cares about PSU)?
I'm passionate about sports and being a fan. Part of that is enjoying the shit out of some schadenfreude from East Lansing and Columbus. Maybe the fanatical side isn't for you and that's fine. But then you can't get on a high horse about it being a special kind of butt-hurt to want your rivals to lose.
March 29th, 2018 at 12:33 PM ^
March 29th, 2018 at 12:35 PM ^
Also this isn't a fluff piece. Everything about this post is bad and wrong.
March 29th, 2018 at 12:35 PM ^
1. Is the B1G team playing Duke? Then OK, root for the B1G. If it's MSU or OSU playing Duke and no asteroid is available, grudgingly root for them or turn off the TV and go for a walk.
2. Is the B1G team playing OSU or MSU (or PSU in football)? Then root for the other B1G team.
3. Northwestern's OK, as long as they're not playing Michigan. I like seeing plucky nerds have some success.
4. There is no 4.
March 29th, 2018 at 12:40 PM ^
I'm with Ramzy on this one. I would rather have my fingernails pulled out with pliers than root for Ohio State or Michigan State.
(okay, not really, but you get the picture)
March 29th, 2018 at 12:43 PM ^
March 29th, 2018 at 12:43 PM ^
I took a look at that RCMB post you quoted. It wasn't written by one of the MSU folks. It was written by one of the two or three crazy UM fans that inhabit that board.
Aside from that, there are some B1G teams I don't mind seeing win, like Wisconsin, Minnesota, NW, and sometimes Iowa, IL, IN and Purdue. I root for MSU, PSU and OSU to lose in every competition ever. And I don't really care about Neb, Rutgers and Maryland but they can lose too.
The only conflicting part is when say, MSU plays OSU and they can't both go down to a horrible defeat.
March 29th, 2018 at 12:44 PM ^
I appreciate you posting this because it is one of his best pieces, up there with his treatise on fall weddings.
BUT - but but but - conference loyalty is lame in the playoffs. During the regular season, whatever, it helps SOS. Playoffs? No way - I root for rivals to lose as early and painfully as possible. End of story.
March 29th, 2018 at 12:44 PM ^
It's true
March 29th, 2018 at 12:46 PM ^
On this one. No way in hell i'm rooting for another B1G team in the tourney, much less the Final Four. There's not a lot of things I find more ridiculous than listening to Mississippi St. fans chant S.E.C. as 'Bama crushes Michigan State, except that it was a B1G team...go 'bama!!
March 29th, 2018 at 12:48 PM ^
When I was younger I would root for all of the B1G teams except MSU and OSU in the big games as those two were "hated" rivals. I then realized that I have friends and family that root for those schools.
I now figure that if a rival's win will bring some of my friends and family a good amount of happiness, I'm for it. I don't get upset at all if they lose and I might even take a smidge of pleasure in it, but I still prefer that they win as their winning results in a greater amount of joy in my world.
March 29th, 2018 at 12:48 PM ^
no one gives a shit about Ramzy
March 29th, 2018 at 12:51 PM ^
Actually, I think Ramzy is the only other college football blogger who is on par with Brian in terms of intelligence and writing acumen. He's well-respected around here, even if he is a Buckeye.
March 29th, 2018 at 12:54 PM ^
Is he? His hot takes on Twitter are as bad as they get.
So you are half the issue.
Actually, it's an exceptional place, if you follow the right accounts, to get quality news, updates, and information frrom parties who need a voice. Going to guess you're over 40.
No thanks.