I bet Bryan wishes he could have bet this picture would lead this post [Bryan Fuller]

Preview 2022: Quarterback Comment Count

Brian August 29th, 2022 at 2:16 PM

Previously: Podcast 14.0A, 14.0B, 14.0C. The Story

QUARTERBACK: PARTY LIKE IT'S 1999

GRADE: 4.5

QUARTERBACK Yr
Cade McNamara Jr.*
JJ McCarthy Fr.*
Davis Warren Fr.*

Back at the tail end of the last century, Michigan had a quarterback controversy. There was a cerebral guy who didn't blow anyone away physically; there was a dual-threat guy who had all the potential in the world but was a bit younger and less proven. Tom Brady and Drew Henson split snaps for the bulk of the 1999 season as message boards rabbled about who should have the crown. A decision was only made late in the year; by the time Brady was entrusted with leading a stirring comeback against #6 Penn State in Happy Valley everyone knew who the man was, man.

Twenty-three years later we've got a remake in the works, except this time Michigan's coming off a championship. Cade McNamara led Michigan to a win over Ohio State and a Big Ten title and pretty much the entire fanbase wants to put him on the bench in favor of JJ McCarthy. "What have you done for me lately" doesn't quite cover it.

But… I mean… you know. It's not crazy. It's sufficiently sane that Harbaugh announced a slightly insane thing: McNamara will start the opener; McCarthy will start against Hawaii, and then they'll make a decision.

BRADY ANALOGUE

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cade: remember this? everyone: no [Bryan Fuller]

Analogue, people. Please vacate Ann Arbor Torch & Pitchfork. Our cerebral game manager type without the electric athleticism is CADE MCNAMARA, you know, the starting quarterback for the Big Ten champion Michigan Wolverines. Everyone wants to pitch him overboard, naturally. And, I mean… ok, yeah. Pro Football Focus listed him 29th in their college-only QB projections, third in the league behind CJ Stroud and Aidan O'Connell. That's okay! It's definitely okay.

[After THE JUMP: HENSON ANALOGUE]

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It doesn't feel like enough to beat Ohio State, at Ohio State, without Hassan Haskins, and with a functional defensive system on the other side of the ball. The trajectory here could argue otherwise, though?

CADE MCNAMARA

  Good   Neutral   Bad   Ovr   Reads
Game DO CA SCR   PR MA   BA TA IN BR   DSR GRADE!   RPOs ZRs
W. Michigan 3+ 3(3)-           2     1   67% +5   4/5 2/7
Washington 1 3(2)-     2 (1)     3 1(1) 2   40% -8   5/5 4/9
NIU 2 7+ -     1 1             100% +11   1/2 1/2
Rutgers 3+ 5-     1 1       5xx 1   57% +2.5   2/2 1/6
Wisconsin 6 13 1   1 2   1 1 4x 2x   71% +10.5   2/3 1/2
Nebraska 3+ 13(2)-     3 6   3 3 6 1x   55% -1.5   1/3 2/2
Northwestern 2 11(5)+     2 2   1 3 4xx 1   59% -1   5/7 5/8
Michigan St 9++ 19(1)+ - 1   1 1   2 5 5 4   64% +20.5   1/2 1/1
Indiana 4 8(1) 1   4       1 1 1   81% +10   0/0 3/6
Penn State 4+ 8+++(2)     2 4   3 3 3     57% +0   0/0 0/1
Maryland 5 14++(1) 1     2   2 3 1 1   74% +14.5   0/3 5/9
Ohio State 3 7++(2) 1   3 3     1 1 1x   79% +14   3/3 -
Iowa 3++ 7+(2)     2 4     2 2 1x   67% +2   3/3 1/3
Georgia 3++ 4(4) 1   3 1   2 5x 2 1x   44% +3   0/2 1/1

That's not a full Rudockening but it's not that far away.

McNamara got a ton of time in high school and was the kind of guy who's got a QB coach by the time he's in middle school, and that paid off. Seth frequently talked about McNamara's ability to read the defense before the snap and get Michigan into good plays (or pick the best option when he had a passing down). There was no better example of this than Roman Wilson's skinny post touchdown against Penn State, when PSU's adjustment to Michigan's running game provided McNamara with the opportunity to see a guy playing cover one on a a hashmark—not down the middle of the field:

…if you scroll back up to the video you can see PSU was leaving their other safety on the hash mark. Gattis picked up on that and used it to score Michigan’s first touchdown. Here again you see Brisker, #1, walking down on our right, and #16 staying much higher on the field side. But #16 still has to play one-high, meaning he’s in the wrong spot to help in cover 1 if you send a fast Hawaiian down the seam.

Press man across the board on third and fifteen? No problem, back shoulder.

When the presnap alignment of the defense didn't give away the game, things were considerably rockier. One of the ongoing themes of Sam Webb's WTKA segments with Devin Gardner was Gardner (presumably) clutching his head in agony at the shots that were there but un-taken. Some quarterbacks will fling the ball into double coverage; McNamara almost did not attempt a bomb when the receiver was plausibly covered one-on-one. In part this was the nature of the receiving corps, what with the running by everyone, but Cornelius Johnson is a large leaping person and was almost never given a go-get-it ball.

The real shame of it was that when McNamara did unleash the dragon the results were close to great. Seth clipped a ton of dead-on bombs, zips down the seam, and in-stride shots:

McNamara wasn't perfect—Northwestern was oddly his nadir in this department—but what stands out in all these clips is how the catches are made. Nobody's laying out or high-pointing a ball that's way too short. All of them are bang on the money. The flip side of the hesitancy was that McNamara didn't get bailed out by Nico Collins mossing some guy. When he hits a guy it's in stride.

PFF had him fifth nationally in passer rating on throws of 20+ yards (which does not include the Andrel Anthony TD against MSU), and even though there's a bunch of YAC in there you can't say McNamara didn't earn it. He not only put it on guys running deep, he put it on them such that they could go run another 40 yards. The casual nature of this flea-flicker TD is a thing:

McNamara was able to put it on guys running flat out with a step or two on their defender and also ease into some of the most catchable deep balls this space has ever seen from a Michigan quarterback when the coverage was way off. This is also game managing.

As befits a game manager, McNamara's bad-thing-not-happen stuff was superior. He threw just two interceptions that were primarily his fault. There was the bad one against Ohio State, yes, and a similar play against Nebraska. Two "oof" picks in a season is amazing, and it looked like Nebraska jumped offsides on that play—McNamara may have thought he had a free shot. His other interceptions were either pinball deflections, absurdly uncalled pass interference, or miscommunication with his wide receiver.

He also contributed quite a bit to Michigan's national-best sack rate:

McNamara also short-circuited what I thought was Ohio State’s main gameplan for Michigan, which was to get pressure with exotic six-man pressures and cover his first read. McNamara remained cool, knew where his checkdowns were going to be, and hit them accurately.

 

One of the holes in our grading system is we don’t have a way to account for the quarterback in our protection metrics. Some QBs run themselves into trouble, some run out of clean pockets, and many stick to the script like they’re operating an insurance commercial not a college offense. On the above play Ohio State used the speed of their second level to create a surprise six-man pressure that overwhelmed the left side—even if Hayes comes off the LB and picks up one of those outside blitzers there’s one more guy than Michigan has a hat for. We got into a play earlier this year when McNamara took his first sack and I argued that he has to save himself on those.

Well, he saved himself. Those two blitzers never get home, because Cade comes off the three-man read on the left side he won’t have time for and gets the ball to a tight end with leverage. It sets up 3rd and short. The chains keep moving. Nobody remarks that Ohio State drew up a way to get two free blitzers versus an empty formation and didn’t get so much as a shot on the QB for it. I’ve beat the drum all year that McNamara is a brainy quarterback who does the reading before the snap to speed up his decisions after it. That makes him a very difficult guy to blitz—it’s one thing if you can cover his first read and he doesn’t know where to go from there; it’s not easy to fool him pre-snap but it can be done. It’s another thing entirely if he can flip from Read 1 to Read 4 because he knows if you’re blitzing from Y and Z you don’t have leverage in D.

Anyone who watched Shea Patterson's senior year knows that a QB can sack himself; McNamara never did that. His impulse to check down did have that upside. This was reflected in the numbers. He was PFF's highest-graded Big Ten passer—ahead of Stroud and O'Connell—against the blitz. When Seth crunched UFR data McNamara scored an impressive 68% on passing-down downfield success rate—and remember that we're not handing out CAs for five yard checkdowns on third and ten. He also had 22(!) plays on which we gave him a plus for dealing with pressure against just 14 plays on which we decided pressure prevented him from having a reasonable chance at doing anything. That ratio is nuts for a first year starter.

So you can call him a game manager but if you do you have to admit that he manages the dang game. Seth:

The fan brain way to show all of this is how you feel when Michigan goes five-wide on 3rd and medium. Pretty good right? Well it’s actually getting better. Earlier in the season he wasn’t making the backside read when he had a route combination to the frontside. Northwestern bet on that, putting extra dudes frontside. Cade checks there to make sure it’s the 5-on-3 they showed pre-snap, and comes back to the 2-on-2 snag on the backside.

People still throw around “Game Manager” like it’s a bad thing to play the thinking man’s wargame with a brain. But if you give him a cushion he’s going to spot it and take it.

He checked into that, and makes 30 more checks a game that have probably borne out in the very good running game but no fan can or will be able to see on tape.

McNamara is also capable of altering throws based on what's in front of him. He does not have the biggest arm in the world but he makes up for it with a deft touch and an awareness of when to use it. Yeah, you could hammer this in before the linebacker gets his hand on it if you're Joe Milton, or you could just use parabolas to your advantage:

Michigan had a lot of touch passes in the playbook last year and they went extremely well. McNamara is able to complete these even under duress and from different arm angles:

He was excellent at getting balls over the hands of linebackers in zone coverage.

All this adds up to 7.9 YPA, 15 TDs, 6 interceptions, and 64% completions for his first year as a starter, and more or less his second in the program. That's exactly what Michigan needed last year: a steady hand to check into the right bulldozings and, when Michigan didn't score, provide long fields that gave the defensive ends time to consume the souls of their opposition. To, you know, manage the game.This season Michigan needs something more than that. Thus all the rabbling.

McNamara can get there. His reads got better as the season went along. His accuracy is high-end. His main issue is not seeing a large number of bombs he's excellent at throwing. That is fixable in film room, especially since McNamara has displayed good information processing in many other aspects of his game.

Just don't ask him to keep it.

ON THE GROUND, things did not go as well. It says something about something that Michigan converted a third and twelve in the Big Ten championship game by motioning Donovan Edwards out, leaving McNamara with a four man box against man two under. McNamara scored a 47% on Seth's charting of his post-snap mesh point decisions. On the podcast Seth characterized this as "no better than flipping a coin," but it felt worse than that. McNamara either had a pathological determination not to keep the ball or a lot of the "reads" weren't reads at all. I mean:

Guys would turn their body almost 90 degrees away from square and charge at Haskins and McNamara would still give the ball. This caused Seth to descend into MGoBlog Who Are We Reading Spittle Paragraphs™ with some frequency. (It was very Dread Pirate Roberts of him.) The most gloriously spittle-flecked was after Wisconsin, and related to the embed above:

I think Arc Read is still in the playbook, but they still can’t get McNamara to keep no matter how good the look. … Pre-snap notice that Erick All is pointing at the OLB lining up inside of him.

image

He’s also looking at McNamara. Something is being communicated, and the most sensical thing that could be is “RIGHT HERE CADE. THIS GUY IS COMING INSIDE OF ME. READ THAT!” He doesn’t read that.

imageimage

And when All gets up after that he’s like “What the HELL man?”

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…In this way the starting quarterback has once again become a major drag on the run game. Defenses can run willy-nilly at the edges Michigan wants to attack, and either deliver an unblocked extra man to the RB at the line of scrimmage or better yet an unblocked, unread edge defender directly into the backfield.

Wisconsin is the best example here because they have to be taken seriously in ways that MAC teams and Rutgers—ye gods, remember that game—do not. But the vibes from the Rutgers game are a pretty good summary:

Fake zone reads are not THE problem but they're the most obvious and frustrating part of the Jim Harbaugh Rutgers Game Plan experience. I don’t know if they’re expecting the QB to read it pre-snap, if McNamara is just screwing them up consistently, if the slider is just set to an extreme and defenses have learned how to maximize that, or if they figured 20 points against Rutgers was plenty so why do anything more dangerous than fart for a half and leave your opponents with a bunch of nonsense to scout.

Seth briefly issued a cyan to McCarthy, causing the message boards to explode into a civil war, largely because of this. I disagreed at the time, but I do understand. I too have been in the UFR salt mines getting wild-eyed about this exact thing. It changes you, this UFR.

Michigan dumped McNamara run reads from the offense by the time of the Ohio State game—Seth charted zero zone reads—and that went… just fine! Pretty great, actually! The problem with projecting that down the road is that the Ohio State defense was a mid-season patch job and Michigan was vastly ahead of the curve schematically in a way that is not likely to recur. If McNamara's going to stay ahead of his competition he's going to have to be a Brady-like savant at reading defenses and getting the ball out. This isn't getting better to the point where McNamara features in opposition planning like McCarthy is.

HENSON ANALOGUE

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meep meep [Patrick Barron]

And then there's the other guy. Here's JJ MCCARTHY [recruiting profile] doing the throwing thing pretty well:

Yes, that is a 20-yard out to the field. No, he didn't really step into the throw.

Here's McCarthy catching Blake Corum(!!!) in the Big Ten championship game:

This + that == holy shit. McCarthy threw for 8.7 yards an attempt with 5 TDs and 2 INTs and ran for 5.5 yards a carry as a true freshman, with a fair number of those snaps coming in competitive portions of games. It is completely understandable that the Michigan fanbase is looking at the five star-laden rosters of Ohio State and hypothetical playoff opponents and pounding the table for McCarthy as the great equalizer.

It is also completely understandable that the Michigan coaching staff hasn't shown the same level of reckless enthusiasm. They like McCarthy just fine; unlike big portions of the fanbase they're not yet ready to anoint him as the chosen one. Because while the freshman stuff was relatively muted, it wasn't exactly absent:

Yeah, it worked. Other events were less dramatically freshman and had less sanguine outcomes. (For the record, Infamous Fumble Against MSU is charged to Blake Corum, per Harbaugh himself.) This is our concern, dude.

This shows up in Seth's charting… sort of. Data is so thin here on a game-to-game basis that we'll just compress it all into a one-line chart:

JJ MCCARTHY

  Good   Neutral   Bad   Ovr   Reads
Game DO CA SCR   PR MA   BA TA IN BR   DSR GRADE!   RPOs ZRs
2021 9++++ 18+(7) 3   1 7   1x 5x 11 6x   58% +10   10/12 28/33

As always, hover over abbreviations for explanations.

This covers 53 of McCarthy's 59 throws last year, so about two games worth for a Harbaugh quarterback. This is a wild ride with a ton of NFL-level DOs and a hair or two too many events in the "bad" category. But does this look like a capital-F freshman? No. Extra-bad X events are relatively rare; bad reads are generally non-catastrophic; his mesh point decisions are fan-dang-tastic (even if you have some skepticism about our ability to deduce these things).

Two things are true. One is that McCarthy's per-snap +/- grading is considerably adrift of McNamara's final six games. Two is that this chart looks like a rocket two seconds after ignition. It's not going very fast right now, but there's a hell of a lot of fire coming out of the back of it.

Let's drill down.

HENSON ANALOGUE DOES THE THROWING. Sometimes… there's a man. And you just know he's a different kind of dude. JJ McCarthy is that man. His version of the Denard fumble TD was a ridiculous cross-body throw to Daylen Baldwin that came right at me in the stands. At first I thought this thing was going to be intercepted; so did Daylen Baldwin. Then the arc of the ball became clear—much more quickly for Baldwin than myself—and all that was left was Pikachu face. The broadcast angle does not do it justice:

Later in the season Seth caught a pop off of Cornelius Johnson's pads that said something. Volume up for this one:

The five-star arm literally pops.

…you heard that catch on the broadcast, as the ball arrives so quickly on a hitch Johnson has to figure out what to do with the time he wasn’t planning to have before the DB arrives. He was going to shield the ball, so he just falls backwards for a few extra. In future circumstances these are going to turn into big YAC opportunities.

When provided an opportunity to hit a hitch against off coverage McCarthy frequently got the ball out fast enough to allow his wide receiver to turn and go upfield. And if his deep ball is less proven than McNamara that's only because of reps. Early indications are McCarthy is right there with him:

McCarthy also displayed some of the subtler arts during his opportunities. Andrel Anthony's Braylon cosplay will re-appear in this preview series; for purposes of this post it's illuminating because this is a corner route on which the DB hops outside; McCarthy's throw is the right one despite the unexpected situation:

When he's flushed from the pocket he keeps his eyes downfield and doesn't mindlessly go into run mode despite his athleticism. And while McCarthy is capable of breaking the pocket when necessary, he did not use it as a crutch—much, anyway. He was perfectly willing to sit in the pocket if he got enough time to get a pass off:

On top of all that, McCarthy's athleticism allows him to make something out of nothing even when he gets an unblocked, good Iowa linebacker coming at him:

Hard to see that being anything other than a throwaway if McNamara gets that rush.

Early issues reading things—like that time against Western where he had eyes only for AJ Henning on a dig/post that sucked up the exact safety he should be reading and left Roman Wilson wide open for six—didn't linger. By the time he got flung in the deep end in the Georgia game he was zipping darts in front of certified dudes*:

McCarthy wasn't ready to take Michigan down the field repeatedly against Georgia but it didn't take a lot of squinting to see how he could get there.

And then there's the other half of being a quarterback these days.

*[Perhaps backup certified dudes but just look up UGA recruiting; the backups are about to be one of CFB's best defenses again.]

HENSON ANALOGUE DOES THE RUNNING. McCarthy's ability on the ground was frankly shocking. His recruiting profile has a couple mentions of his ability to break the pocket and ESPN did rank him as a dual threat, but Mike Farrell and Allen Trieu are quoted as saying he "can run when needed" and he's "not a big big running threat," respectively.  I don't think anyone was expecting multiple clips where he WOOPed Big Ten linebackers.

He even fumbled a snap and scored, just like Denard! From five yards out instead of sixty zillion, sure. But just like Denard. Shh. Shh. Just like Denard.

Seth even liked McCarthy's decision-making, which is a brutally high bar to clear. The nature of UFR is to Zapruder every play and then be like DUDE YOU MISSED THIS CREASE, which is not entirely fair. We know this and have tried to keep that in mind, but for the purposes of this section it's illuminating that the freshman QB fielded this comment from Seth after the Maryland game:

…Denard was never very good at making option reads [ed: SLANDERLIBEL], and McCarthy has those and the RPOs pretty much down. My Jim Harbaugh 2.0 comp from the preseason is holding up, but we’re still talking Harbaugh circa 1982 or ’83 (QBs come more advanced these days). For now the coaches have to be wondering how they can use that without having a freshman moment cost them The Game.

They had a package for McCarthy in the freakin' Game with a bunch of reads and he just… did them right.

After McCarthy's ability to motor was on film you could see the impact on Michigan's ground game. There's the Iowa run above, yeah. Here Hassan Haskins doesn't have to cut this back because Maryland, but look at how much attention McCarthy draws. If Haskins needed to put his foot in the ground and get vertical that's there too.

The best backs for spread systems where it's really 11-on-11 tend to be home run hitters, because you break one tackle and everyone else is occupied. Michigan has home run hitters at running back. So if you've got the guy who you have to overreact to when he's the backup QB with a package, and he's actually making the reads, and he's actually a passer first and foremost… well. This is a potential stew.

HENSON ANALOGUE IS NOT PROJECTABLE? Here's the bit where you project what's going to happen, except I don't know. McCarthy could get stuck on the bench; he could rescue Michigan against Iowa and then just be the starting quarterback. Since this is the #1 Question hovering over the team this year, the outcome of the battle here is addressed more fully in 5Q5A.

FILE UNDER DON’T WANNA KNOW

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Davis Warren has potential we absolutely do not want to explore [Marc-Gregor Campredon]

With McCarthy out and McNamara limited to a couple of drives, Michigan fans got an extended look at the depths of the, uh, depth chart during the spring game. This preview will not spend a whole lot of time going over it.

Jon [Gruden] asked Tom [Moore, the Colts offensive coordinator,] why he wasn’t giving some snaps to Peyton’s backups…He looked at us both in the eye, paused for a moment, then said in that gravelly voice of his, “Fellas, if ‘18’ goes down, we’re fucked.  And we don’t practice fucked.”

Texas Tech transfer ALAN BOWMAN and walk-on-with-a-story DAVIS WARREN went head-to-head for most of the afternoon. Most observers thought Warren was better, which came as a major surprise despite some positive spring practice chatter about Warren. Bowman has over 600 career attempts as Texas Tech’s starter and Warren barely played in high school, let alone college. Talk is talk is talk; Warren put a little something behind the talk.

Warren does have a pile of caveats to point at. His senior year was derailed by a leukemia diagnosis—chemotherapy left him 30 pounds lighter than his previous playing weight—and then a grad-year transfer to a school in Connecticut got blown up by COVID. If nothing else, Warren is a worthy successor to Drake Johnson’s throne as the Certainly Definitely Cursed member of the Michigan roster.

Realistically, if Michigan gets down here they'll just be scrambling to survive.

One last note: freshman ALEX ORJI [recruiting profile] looked somewhat interesting as a dual threat quarterback but miles away as a passer; with McCarthy's evident running ability it would be shocking if he did not redshirt unless they really need a power back. JAYDEN DENEGAL [recruiting profile] is a sure redshirt.

Comments

njvictor

August 29th, 2022 at 2:37 PM ^

I'm gonna put on my tinfoil hat briefly: After seeing how bad Hawaii lost to Vandy, Harbaugh gave JJ the start in the second game because he wants JJ to play the inferior opponent and win the job

EDIT: Damn, I guess people don't like lighthearted conspiracy theories

The Homie J

August 29th, 2022 at 2:57 PM ^

I also feel like it's easier to say "well JJ just blew the doors off Hawaii, so he's gonna stay the starter until we feel it necessary to put Cade back in" vs "well they both looked good so back to the bench JJ, we'll see what happens vs Iowa"

And based on this article, as good as Cade is, JJ was already nailing difficult aspects of the job as a true freshman and was given reps during pivotal games (MSU, OSU, Iowa, Georgia) and didn't look out of place despite a lack of experience.  That's close to a sure sign that he's the real deal compared to Joe Milton who never looked that comfortable even after several years in the program.

Unless he's a turnover machine in practice, let him rip and let's see what happens.  

RoseInBlue

August 29th, 2022 at 2:58 PM ^

I don't get why so many seem to think there's some ulterior motive to the split start announcement.  Personally, I figure it's exactly what the man said it is.  The competition is too close to call based solely on practice so he wants to see each in live game reps before moving forward with the decision.  Just because the competition level is low doesn't mean you can't learn things from real game situations.  Harbaugh has straight up stated what he wants to look at in the games.  How both guys handle various situations/scenarios.  Things that can't be replicated full go in practice due to the innate practice nature of it.

goblu330

August 29th, 2022 at 3:11 PM ^

I am not sure it is the best approach to make it about "starting" as opposed to just splitting time.  It could play out in a way that neither players feels like they are getting demoted, but the way he has chosen to proceed, one of the players is going to feel like that.  There are three games to start the season that either QB will win, I think the better approach would have just been to play both of them a lot and then make a decision going into Big Ten play.

JonnyHintz

August 29th, 2022 at 5:23 PM ^

I just don’t really see what you’re going to learn about the two that you don’t already know.
 

Cade started all of last year. JJ played fairly often, and in high leverage situations against top competition. You pretty much know how they’re going to handle the various situations and scenarios in the games because they’ve already played in them. We have enough information already, especially with Cade, to know they can both handle it. And that’s with us all being unaware of exactly what improvements each guy made during the off-season.  
 

There’s no scenario you’re going to come across against Colorado State and Hawaii that wasn’t experienced against teams like Washington, Wisconsin, Nebraska, MSU, PSU, OSU, Iowa or Georgia last year. Not to mention you had all of fall camp to simulate any possible scenario you can dream of, and while not quite the same as going through it in a game, you won’t come across those scenarios in blowouts of subpar competition anyway. 
 

I don’t have a problem with them doing it this way, I just struggle to find much value in it. 

JonnyHintz

August 29th, 2022 at 7:44 PM ^

Last year was last year. And you saw both guys handle their business last year against much better competition than they’ll be facing in week 1 and week 2. We already know they can do it. Coaches also saw them both play against a quality defense all of fall camp in whatever scenario they chose to throw them into. 
 

What are you going to find out in a pair of blowouts against two horrendous teams that you don’t already know about these two? Live reps are cool and all, but you’re hardly getting a measuring stick here.

M_Born M_Believer

August 29th, 2022 at 4:18 PM ^

While I will not take it THAT far, to me this is set up for JJ to "take" the job.  Cade rightfully deserves to start against CSU.  However, there is most likely not a better opponent for JJ to start with the opportunity to win the starting job.

1) He will know how Cade did in the first game

2) He will be playing against a woefully over matched opponent

Now it is up to JJ to take the job.  Put up astonishing numbers and it makes Jim's job easier to name JJ the starter.  Put up similar number or less then similar numbers compared to Cade and Cade is the starter.

Jim is giving both QBs the opportunity to make a case to be the starter.  I just know that you always want to go second in this type of situation so you know what needs to be done to be successful.

Wolverine In Exile

August 29th, 2022 at 2:44 PM ^

Tom Moore, Colts offensive coordinator-- AND COORDINATOR OF THE GREATEST OFFENSE EVER BECAUSE HE MADE THE DETROIT LIONS THE #1 OFFENSE IN THE NFL* WITH SCOTT FREAKING MITCHELL AS THE STARTING QB. WHY DID YOU HIRE ROD MARINELLI AND NOT TOM MOORE, DETROIT LIONS???

 

* the team which led the NFL in total offense in 1995 and was the first team in NFL history to have two receivers with over 100 catches in a season, per Wikipedia

NotADuck

August 29th, 2022 at 9:01 PM ^

Yes.

Brett Perriman - 108 catches on 179 targets for 1488 yards and 9 touchdowns.

Herman Moore - 123 catches on 206 targets for 1686 yards and 14 touchdowns.

Those two guys dominated the receiving stats for the Lions that year.  Next closest guy is Johnnie Morton with 44 catches on 80 targets for 590 yards and 8 touchdowns.  After that its Barry Sanders with 398 yards and David Sloan with 184 yards.

Those target numbers for Moore and Perriman are insane!  To give you an idea, Cooper Kupp had 191 targets last year and the next closest guy had 169.  To have 2 guys on the same team in the same year with those target numbers is absolutely nuts.

The Oracle 2

August 29th, 2022 at 2:52 PM ^

In the end, it’s really simple. They can’t keep both and they’d be crazy to let someone with NFL QB talent get away. They’re not crazy. McCarthy it will be.

WestQuad

August 29th, 2022 at 3:24 PM ^

I have no problem with McCarthy starting if he earns it and it isn't based on potential.  Henson had more potential than Brady, but Brady gave us that great bowl game against Alabama and went on to be the GOAT in the NFL.    McNamara is a B1G winning QB who gave us our first victory against OSU since 2011.  McCarthy needs to be clearly better to get the nod. I think he can get there. Iron sharpens iron.

If our floor is 2 more years of McNamara starting, I'm o.k. with it.  So much better than just about every year since Devin Gardener.

BTB grad

August 29th, 2022 at 3:55 PM ^

I think the part people overlook is Henson was also a very good QB in his time at Michigan. He’s the last Michigan QB to beat OSU in the Horseshoe. 14/25 for 303 yds & 3 TDs passing in that game along with the iconic game winning rushing TD off a naked bootleg on 4th & goal. We’re likely going to need a QB performance in Columbus like that this year with the question marks on defense and without Hassan Haskins.

JonnyHintz

August 29th, 2022 at 5:32 PM ^

McNamara is a B1G winning QB who gave us our first victory against OSU since 2011.  McCarthy needs to be clearly better to get the nod
 

Here’s the problem. If you throw in Gardner, Rudock, Speight, or Shea in at QB against OSU and Iowa last year, we still beat OSU and still win the B1G. Those things didn’t happen because of Cade. Cade was a role player on a great team. And that’s not a bad thing, he did it very well as the article points out. But that doesn’t cement his place as a starter. 
 

I strongly disagree that McCarthy needs to be “clearly” better. If he’s remotely better, he needs to start. Best player plays. Cade doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt because of a team accomplishment last year. Individual production and abilities are what is important, not what the team you played on did last year. At the end of the day, 15 TDs in 14 games leaves your job open to competition. 
 

With that said, I have no issue with Cade starting if he’s the better guy. But he doesn’t get bonus points in a QB position battle because Hassan Haskins ran for 5 TDs against OSU 9 months ago. 

The Sea Was Angry

August 29th, 2022 at 6:29 PM ^

If you throw in Gardner, Rudock, Speight, or Shea in at QB against OSU and Iowa last year, we still beat OSU and still win the B1G. 

Please explain how you know this to be true. If you have ever played team sports, you must know there is more to it than that. Granted, from the outside looking in, it would seem McNamara is a born leader who raises his team's performance. Now, that's speculation on my part. Could be right, could be wrong, but to say that any of those other quarterbacks could have accomplished the same feats is, in my estimation, a reach.

Do you remember McNamara's reaction during the on-the-field interview after the Wisconsin game? How about the Penn State game? Do you remember how much pressure to beat OSU there was over the last several years/decade? 20(ish)-aged football players aren't typically that cool under fire. That screams leadership to me, and I don't know if you can anoint any previous quarterback with those qualities.

Now, after reading Brian's preview, part of me definitely hopes they go with McCarthy. If the cerebral part of his game has grown even somewhat close to the athletic part, we are all in for a treat. I would simply ask that we not diminish or demean what McNamara (and the team, yes) accomplished last year.

JonnyHintz

August 29th, 2022 at 8:13 PM ^

Well for starters, Gardner and Speight almost beat OSU in their own seasons. Now, if you give any of those four guys a running back that goes for 5 TDs and a stellar performance from the defense, they all beat OSU as well. The problem in each of their losses was a defense that couldn’t stop OSU and a running game that couldn’t move the ball. Something Cade had. Give them that, and each of them would have beaten OSU in their careers too.
 

Cade went 13/19 for 159 yards and a pick against OSU. 
 

2013 Devin Gardner had a 460 yard, 5 total TD performance against OSU and lost. 

2015 Rudock threw for 263 yards and a TD, and lost.

2016 Speight threw for 219 2 TDs and 2 picks, and lost in OT

2018 Shea threw for 187 yards, 3 TDs and a pick, and lost

2019 Shea threw for 305 yards, a TD and a pick, and lost. 


And you’re going to sit here and ask me how I know those QBs would have been able to beat OSU on last year’s team when Haskins scored 5 TDs and the defense dominated? Cade played a role on a great team. Many of our past QBs would be capable of playing that role. 
 

It’s not demeaning the team (or Cade’s) accomplishments to acknowledge that he wasn’t asked to do much and he didnt produce much in those games. So why should we pretend like he put on some Herculean performance to lead us to a victory over OSU and his job status should be solidified?
 

I’m simply not going to give Cade the credit for beating OSU when it was Haskins that put on an all-time great performance. Just like I don’t credit the 103 passing yards from Brian Griese for beating OSU in 1995 on the back of Biakabutuka’s record setting day. There’s really no reason why that should be a hot take. 

 


 

 

The Sea Was Angry

August 29th, 2022 at 9:44 PM ^

I'm not sure how to respond to your statistics as they really don't address leadership skills to which I alluded. However, I will say that I should have said "all" rather than "any" in reference to the quarterbacks you named. I will definitely give you Devin Gardner, but to simply insert QB A in place of QB B and state any universal certainties seems silly to me. But hey--it's the internet. All opinions yada yada yada...

More importantly, I don't feel like we need to have this debate as I think we agree that the quarterback who better demonstrates his abilities on the field currently--all abilities, not just the athletic ones--should be the starter this year. 

Edit: Oh, and I will happily question you as I don't think you know how much Cade did to influence the success of this team. You make it sound like he had a minimal part. I will go with others on this site who appear to have more football knowledge and insight. Bottom line: we will have to agree to disagree. Thanks for the input!

 

JonnyHintz

August 29th, 2022 at 10:16 PM ^

but to simply insert QB A in place of QB B and state any universal certainties seems silly to me.
 

He threw 19 passes. None in the end zone. One the other team caught. Yes, it’s a universal certainty that other QBs who all had better individual performances against OSU would have also won the game in which the running back ran for 5 TDs and the defense dominated. Especially factoring in that two of those QBs were a single play from winning in their own games.
 

This isn’t complicated. Cade is a fine QB. But no, he did not put on some spectacular performance to beat OSU. He was the QB when it happened, but that’s more circumstantial than anything else. The fact that he happened to be the QB while the team beat OSU doesn’t give him any bonus points. 
 

For crying out loud, John O’Korn had the ball and the opportunity to win the game in 2017. Had he led a TD drive instead of throwing a pick, would we really have had this same discussion about him? Or can we acknowledge that the outcome of a certain game is irrelevant in evaluating the abilities of the player. That’s not comparing their abilities by any means, but Michigan has been RIGHT there a number of times with other QBs. Cade happened to be the QB when things finally fall our way. 

JonnyHintz

August 29th, 2022 at 8:20 PM ^

You have to trust your QB to run the ball down OSU’s throats behind the best OL in the country? Come on now. You’re really overvaluing Cade’s contribution here. Leadership is an important trait to have but get serious. 
 

Not to mention, quite a few offenses played like ours did against OSU last year. Oregon did it. Utah did it. Hell, Minnesota dropped 31 on them, same as Purdue. OSU had a bad defense last year, which is why they demoted their DC mid-season and changed their scheme on the fly. The offensive performance wasn’t the amazing part about last year (outside of Haskins’ 5 TDs). It was the defense that really stepped up and delivered. 

bronxblue

August 29th, 2022 at 2:52 PM ^

Good stuff.  

I would like to add that virtually every top QB has a QB coach and goes to all the camps and gets all the instruction possible coming out of HS.  McNamara got his in NV and McCarthy went to basically an NFL min-camp school in IMG where all they do is live, breath, and eat sports.  So at this point I don't really care if a guy had a ton of coaching before he got to college because (a) they all do and (b) the difference between that and what they receive in a major P5 program under an good/great QB coach like Harbaugh means they likely still haven't hit their ceiling.  Now, if I'm an NFL GM then maybe I care if a guy is tapped out but in terms of 18-22-year-olds it's not something I'm quite worried about being a limiting factor.

I've also said my piece about the "he misses guys who are wide open off camera" takes from Sam Webb/Devin Gardner/Al Borges, guys who have a great feel for football but also have a tendency to come to a conclusion and then work backwards in videos until they find an example that fits the point.  I still remember them complaining about Cade "missing" a ball to Sainristil wherein he was both covered AND didn't even get open until 3-4 seconds into the route, at which point Cade had simply moved on to a different receiver.  It was similar to the DPJ discussion (and also where I feel like we'll be with Johnson this year) where a guy gets "open" only after the play has moved on from them or they are no longer a viable target.  Cade absolutely does miss some guys being open but that's true for every QB, and more often than not he gets the ball to the guys who are also open and usually in a good space to get the first down with some yards.  

And that's why I've pushed back a bit on the "look at this amazeballs play McCarthy did" discussion because it tends to happen, as highlighted above, in a 33-7 game wherein he missed two wide-open guys on 4th-and-3 and instead runs around like he's in HS and then throws a solid pass.  That shit works against NW backups in blowouts; try that against Iowa and it's probably a pick or a knock-you-out-of-FG-range sack.  Again, freshman and all that but a lot of the "highlights" are like that; plays that are fun because the stakes are 0% and the potential ROI of letting a 5* play sandlot ball is high.  But expecting him to also be cool and collected against top-level defenses game-planning for him isn't a given.

McCarthy is arguably a more complete QB than Henson was at this time on campus; I was at UM for a large chunk of this era and Henson was a bit more erratic when he saw the field, both as a runner and a passer.  He had top-end guys around him - Anthony Thomas at RB, David Terrell and Marquise Walker at WR - and the game was simply different compared to the more "modern" game of today.  So I do think he's got the ability to win the starting spot.  But Henson was a true sophomore wasn't great and Brady finally beat him out for the starting spot because of it.  

I am really excited this year to see how the QB play ends up, and if McCarthy wins out that'll be great for the future.  But I absolutely don't think McNamara has earned nearly as much "veteran well past his prime living out a fat contract" vibes he's been receiving.

stephenrjking

August 29th, 2022 at 3:38 PM ^

My position since the end of last season has generally been that the best scenario for Michigan this season is for JJ to make the leap in executing the offense and win the starting job outright this season. Elite QB play makes teams great. 

But he has to make that leap. The talk in practice doesn't encourage me to believe that it has occurred; maybe it's because JJ isn't that sharp at it, or maybe it's because he didn't get the opportunity to build up the reps in spring, or maybe it's because he's the type to really need game reps to grow, but it doesn't sound like it has happened. 

Cade is not a big-time playmaker. But with an offense dotted with really good playmakers, he can run the offense effectively by putting everyone else in the offense in position to use their talent to make plays. 

If JJ can come close to that, his superior tools will make even bigger plays. But he has to make the leap. 

Henson did not. In fact, it seemed to me at the time that Brady was the better player throughout, but Henson's tools plus his potential (and his possible baseball career) kept him in the mix. But except for one long TD at Michigan State, there wasn't really a time where Henson looked like he might be able to take the job on the field. 

bronxblue

August 29th, 2022 at 3:57 PM ^

Yeah, if McCarthy clearly beats out McNamara for the spot then he absolutely should, and it's why I generally trust Harbaugh to do so because that's a core metric to him.  All off-season I kept reading about how it was neck-and-neck and both guys were competing and all of that, yet the fanbase seemed to assume only negatives when those words were applied to McNamara and only positive when applied to McCarthy.  I'm sure McCarthy has some wow plays in practice; it also sounds like he's a typical true sophomore in which this complicated offense can mess him up and he made some bad decisions.  McNamara sounds like he's still not a dynamic playmaker but makes the throws he needs to and can run the offense with precision and flow.  If McCarthy had taken the leap he would have; the fact he hasn't isn't an indictment of him as a player (lots of guys take time) but a reminder that both players can improve at roughly the same rate and McNamara can simply be the better QB at this moment.  The contingent of the fanbase demanding the team kick McNamara to the curb because of potential aren't recognizing that reality, and it's why I like the "give each guy a game" approach by Harbaugh.  My guess is at the end McNamara still holds onto the job but it'll give both guys live game reps to hash it out and (not so secretly) force teams to prep for both guys a bit early on.

Edit:  I will say that Henson as a junior was probably better than Brady was as a senior, and would have won the job had the two been matched up.  So it can happen, but fans trying to speed up the clock may be disappointed.

Michael Scarn

August 29th, 2022 at 4:00 PM ^

Good to have you on the wall with me to defend Cade this season.

Borges and DG have both forgotten more football than I will ever know, but there is a reason their thoughts come out on a segment called Monday Morning Quarterback rather than on the field on Saturdays or Sundays.  Cade missed some shots, but their intense focus on any shot play not being hit often ignored the protection/down and distance/actual throw that went for an easy first down, etc.  Jim believes every drive should end in a kick.  Devin and Borges have a different risk appetite.

Since time immemorial this fanbase has been in love with the backup QB with raw tools.  I will root hard for JJ if he wins the job, but my money is still on Cade starting in Columbus.

bronxblue

August 29th, 2022 at 9:19 PM ^

Yeah, I would be very happy if McCarthy beat out McNamara because that would mean UM has two high-level QBs.  But it was weird all last year seeing them and even this site with the famed Cyan Cade designation consistently pick on his weaknesses while ignoring his strengths and ignoring those mistakes by McCarthy.  It just made the entire process hard to square with my own eyes.

Blue In NC

August 29th, 2022 at 4:11 PM ^

I agree with a number of your points but one item you did not mention (that was not really present in the Brady/Henson days) is the way that JJ opens up the run game (especially with HH departing).  Without the run game element, I agree that McNamara is your guy b/c the pre-snap reads and accuracy likely overcome the mobility and arm talent aspect.  But it's hard to deny that JJ significantly alters the effectiveness of the run game and it's this element IMO and the potential for in the big games that makes it such a tough call.

Blue In NC

August 29th, 2022 at 4:53 PM ^

Good point and yes, it may be dialed back as they disfavor QB keeps for the starter but I have to believe that they will allow JJ to make some plays and at least be a threat.  He doesn't need to keep it much to keep the D honest.  Normally the rationale is that you don't want an injury and the significant dropoff to the backup.  But here there would not be significant dropoff (either way).  In this scenario if they start JJ and don't allow him to ever keep, they are wasting talent and limiting the offense.  In that case, yes, it might make sense just to roll with Cade.

bronxblue

August 29th, 2022 at 6:14 PM ^

I agree about the running aspect McCarthy brings (and Henson did have some wiggle in his game and in the modern game would have been like McCarthy as a runner IMO), but I also don't think UM is going to run THAT many times such that it's a dispositive benefit.  Also, McNamara did show he could run the ball a bit if the defense was caught off guard, and I do wonder if he's a bit more comfortable in the offense after another year if he does pull a couple more times.

BakkerUSMC

August 29th, 2022 at 6:58 PM ^

I pray someone teaches our QBs to slide instead of continuing to take monster hits all season. JJ is not a big guy, and even big guys get serious hits (not like a BIG10 linebacker would ever go head hunting for your QB anyway, right?).  

It’s just not worth it for your QB to take those hits, to a throwing arm especially. It would be incredible to finally roll into Cbus with one healthy QB, much less two 

gbdub

August 29th, 2022 at 5:18 PM ^

I think you’re sort of right on the Gardner critique, but I don’t think you can write all of it off. Cade really did seem to be extremely conservative when it came to throwing the ball to guys that weren’t hand wavingly open or given an obvious schematic advantage by the pre-snap alignment. At some point, you expect a guy that’s that good at deep balls with receivers of Michigan’s caliber to take more shots.

Some of that’s probably Harbaugh too - not a lot of willingness to just chuck it up a few times a game and let your superior athletes win the catch. 

 

Rabbit21

August 29th, 2022 at 6:04 PM ^

Started at QB the first time Michigan Beat Ohio St. and Truly BEAT Ohio St. for the first time in decades

Started at QB for Michigan's first Big Ten Championship in decades

Got better throughout the season.

Voted Team Captain by his team-mates

Is an efficient player who doesn't make many mistakes throwing the football and is surrounded by playmakers.

What else does the dude have to do here to earn a little respect?  I get McCarthy looks like the shiny and fun new toy, but good gravy its weird to watch people root against the QB who led the team to the above accomplishments.

I mean, yes, I am full on rooting for a fellow Nevada native(also his brother played football at my sons high school last year), but this all feels like we're tempting fate.

Rendezvous

August 29th, 2022 at 2:55 PM ^

It is often said that a fanbase's favorite player is the 2nd string quarterback. I think Michigan's fanbase's favorite player will be whichever quarterback is on the field at the moment. It could be a special year!

stephenrjking

August 29th, 2022 at 2:56 PM ^

Ok, so as I've thought about it, the weird "a game each" split for the QBs is at least a bit more understandable to me.

When I first heard about it, my reflex response was, "this is to try to keep one of them from transferring." And there may still be an element of that--QBs who lose battles in preseason or even early in a season transfer quite a lot these days. I will be pleasantly surprised if one of these two does not transfer by next season if/when the other is solidified in the job, and I will not consider either man any less of a Michigan man for doing so. 

But after my initial response, another scenario occurred to me: Harbaugh being Harbaugh.

Your typical QB battle situation, as occurred in the 99 season most of us remember well, is to have two guys splitting reps and splitting drives (or, in the case of Steve Spurrier, splitting individual snaps). Maybe alternating drives, or alternating quarters. 

The problem is that the offense is unsettled with that, and so are the QBs. 

Harbaugh's a QB guy, believes he has insight into the mind and needs of a QB, and has the college and NFL QB experience to back that up. He is certainly not the sort to yank his QBs lightly: when a QB wins a job at Michigan, he has the job, period. It takes a *lot* for Harbaugh to make a change. Even when the competition was close and the starter is struggling.

So we know Harbaugh doesn't want to yank his QBs around. But if they are both scheduled to get drives in the first half of the first game, you have to split practice time, develop scripts, and there are only a couple of drives available for a guy to prove himself. More pressure, more chance of encouraging a guy like JJ to try to Make A Big Play instead of working within the offense because he has to beat the other guy.

So what we have here might, in fact, be Harbaugh thinking different, adapting his presuppositions and thinking process, and producing something really innovative.

Two QBs. They're both good. The schedule is such that the team should win comfortably with either guy.

So you give 1 QB an entire week practicing with the ones, studying film, getting the full play script, and knowing that he has over half the game to run the offense. A drive stalls? He gets to learn from that and go out next time. The OC sees something to exploit in the second quarter? The same guy gets to try it out.

Then you give the next QB an entire week to practice with the ones. He gets the play script. He gets a chance to have a bad drive, dust himself off, talk on the phone, learn from it, and put what he adapted into practice.

They don't have to look over their shoulder. They don't have to worry that if the team doesn't drive for a TD before the quarter ends, they won't ever get their job back. They don't have to be too gunshy about throwing an interception, or too eager to improvise to make the really big play. Because they've got the game until it's time for the backups.

I haven't heard of this arrangement before. And it might not work.

But I've come around: I think it's a great idea. 

goblu330

August 29th, 2022 at 3:06 PM ^

The issue with Harbaugh is, we don't really know that he doesn't "want to yank his QBs around."  Harbaugh is weird, sometimes he does weird things that end up being amazing, and sometimes he does weird things that are just really head scratchers.  And he has done it before with QBs.  He created a QB controversy out of nowhere when Speight was returning and O'Korn was 100% terrible.  Sometimes I think Harbaugh outthinks himself.  I could see it being a good idea to do this.  I don't know if it is a particularly good idea to announce it and kind of make a big deal out of it.  I think it would have been a better move to play both of them a lot in both games and make a decision going forward.  By making it about "starting," one of them is going to get a formal demotion.  I'm not sure if that is a wise approach.