OT - CYO Philly ends 11 year old girl's football career
So, I'll get to the link really quickly here, so you all have a chance to read it.
CYO Philly tells 11 year old, only girl in program, football is "boys only".
This has been rehashed several times now, but I feel that it never really comes to a clear answer, in part because of some extenuating circumstance (the girl only plays kicker, and has a no contact rule for her, opposing players complained, etc). In this case, this 5th grade girl, pretty good sized at over 5 feet and 110lbs, plays defensive end and is evidently pretty darn good at it.
Where does everyone come down on this issue. I think it's stupid to ban her for the following reasons.
1. CYO's have women's locker room facilities available. She can dress and then they can hold pre-game meetings in one of the facility's multi-purpose rooms, no problem.
2. She's playing defensive end. She's not asking for any special treatment. She wants to hit, and be hit.
3. At the 5th grade level, the girls are often BIGGER than the boys. This is not a safety concern right now.
4. There is not enough girl's interest in football to start a girl's only league,
The nature of football as a contact sport is such that if you are small and weak enough to get seriously hurt playing it, you're gonna be too small and weak to actually see the field. Let her play until puberty takes over and she can't compete well enough to keep her spot. That will happen long before there's an injury risk more appreciable than for any other player.
February 14th, 2013 at 9:57 AM ^
if she wants to play, her parents want her to play, and she's comparably sized to the other players, then there is no reason why she shouldn't be allowed to play. If the military now allows women in combat, something far more hazardous to one's health than football, then she should be allowed to play football. Shame on the organization for kicking her out.
February 14th, 2013 at 11:35 AM ^
I agree with you up until the military part. Citing something that was a bad decision as rationale that something else is a good idea just doesn't work.
Re. the football thing, I agree it should be up to the parents and the girl. I personally wouldn't let my daughter play football though. Or join the military.
February 14th, 2013 at 9:59 AM ^
When i was in CYO league there were two different teams each with a girl on their squad and they BOTH ended up with broken legs... i know its not politically correct but its been my personal experience that at a certain point this becomes a bad idea.
February 14th, 2013 at 10:02 AM ^
Boys never got hurt though, right?
Also, "your experience" was when you were how old? For how long? You're using anecdotal evidence to the extreme here, methinks.
February 14th, 2013 at 10:03 AM ^
There are injury risks. I'm willing to wager quite a few boys broke bones over the course of their playing careers as well. A broken leg will mend, especially in a child. Not giving her the chance to break that leg is more damaging, I think.
February 14th, 2013 at 10:13 AM ^
So, using your "evidence," girls have inherently weak bones. Is that what you're saying?
EDIT: Also, "at a certain point" means prior to 5th grade?
February 14th, 2013 at 11:29 AM ^
Irrefutable logic, for the win.
February 14th, 2013 at 11:35 AM ^
I have broken bones on three different occasions playing non-football sports. I must have weak bones. Ergo, I must be a woman.
February 14th, 2013 at 3:58 PM ^
So if a player breaks a leg, they must be a woman? 'Cause if breaking a leg means woman, Toussaint should be hosting the fracking View.
February 14th, 2013 at 10:00 AM ^
let the damn girl play. and let her destroy the boys while she can.
February 14th, 2013 at 10:08 AM ^
Football is for men.
MEN MEN MEN MEN MEN.
If I wanted to play "clean the house," I would probably be ridiculed. Or what if I wanted to do laundry? You would probably scoff at me.
February 14th, 2013 at 10:12 AM ^
Seriously? The first thing my daughter's male friends want to play with when they visit is her kitchen set. Their dad's don't have a problem with it, as they shouldn't.
February 14th, 2013 at 10:13 AM ^
What was that thing that just flew over your head? I mean, wow, it went so fast I couldn't make it out!
February 14th, 2013 at 10:19 AM ^
Sorry, I thought it was customary to put /s if you're joking about something. I guess that's why this Internetz thing is so confusing to me. I'm going to start hanging out with Herm.
February 14th, 2013 at 10:38 AM ^
February 14th, 2013 at 10:14 AM ^
if not, he's the stupidest person ever
February 14th, 2013 at 10:15 AM ^
Wait, I can't tell if you're being serious or not. Poe's Law and all that, I can't tell if you're being hyperbolic for sarcasm's sake or you actually think this.
February 14th, 2013 at 10:24 AM ^
February 14th, 2013 at 10:25 AM ^
February 14th, 2013 at 10:09 AM ^
I say let her play as long as the rules are the same for everybody, which seems to be the case here. If she expects high school teams to make concessions for her 5 years from now because she's played so long and now is at a disadvantage because the boys caught up to her physically, I have a problem with that.
February 14th, 2013 at 10:48 AM ^
February 14th, 2013 at 10:55 AM ^
That's a lot of bull.
There is no evidence towards that end what so ever, and her parents haven't requested that they make any special abridgement or adjustment of the rules for her whatsoever, except simply that she be allowed to compete. Her older brother plays, and she wants to play in part because of him. She, and her parents, know what the game demands.
February 14th, 2013 at 10:11 AM ^
I keep hearing that girl's soccer is really dangerous because their necks don't have the muscles to withstand fast changes in direction which often leads to neck injuries. I have to imagine football would be even more dangerous for the average girl.
With that said, this is not an 'average' girl, and she can clearly hold her own. I have no problem with it in this case, but I don't think your average girl should be allowed to play contact football.
February 15th, 2013 at 9:46 AM ^
Their necks don't have the muscle.....? Wait, what?
February 14th, 2013 at 10:12 AM ^
When I was in middle school I was too big to play pop warner (unfortunately I haven't grown since), so I say if she's big enough, have at it. She wont be truly undersized at her current size for a couple more years.
February 14th, 2013 at 10:14 AM ^
they can smell the menstration
February 14th, 2013 at 10:19 AM ^
Finally, a reasonable response. Do they not use mandated menstruation tents in Philadelphia?
And just to be clear, I'm a guy with a good attitude towards menstruation.
February 14th, 2013 at 10:17 AM ^
Any kid that can safely compete and benefit should play. Gender shouldn't be part of the discussion.
February 14th, 2013 at 10:18 AM ^
is all I was going off of because its all I have experienced... and no, to my knowledge no one else in that league that year broke their leg, sorry i have not been tracking nationwide trends on the issue. Of course boys do get hurt playing football my point was the relative rate at which boys and girls would get hurt in early adolescense, playing football, might differ.
February 14th, 2013 at 10:21 AM ^
its MGoControversy week here on the blog. We've seen posts on the pope's resignation, native american mascots, a shooting at Maryland, & global warming all devolve into angry commenting flamewars, and now today we've got Oscar Pistorius' shooting of his girlfriend that's already starting to slide towards a gun control debate and a post on gender & sports. The first four all got very messy, maybe we can be more civilized with these two threads today? Pretty please?
February 14th, 2013 at 10:28 AM ^
You would say that, you PC-obsessed, right wing, liberal, socialism-loving, anarchist.
Go back to your Bible belt homestead of California!
February 14th, 2013 at 10:31 AM ^
you never fail to crack me up sir, you're one of my fave posters on here. thanks for the laugh!
February 15th, 2013 at 9:39 AM ^
Ha, thanks!
February 14th, 2013 at 10:29 AM ^
on the Pistorius thread, just some jokes that I'm not sure I love.
February 14th, 2013 at 10:41 AM ^
but you are correct we haven't quite gotten there yet. it seemed for a brief moment that we were sliding towards that, with a comment like this:
"You don't fire 4 shots at an intruder...you fire 4 shots when you want to kill someone."
I was expecting someone to start a debate about keeping a gun in your home is more likely not to be used on a home invader but a loved one, etc etc. It seems though that the board hasn't gone over that cliff just yet. Thankfully. I just had a feeling there for a minute that it could go there potentially.
February 14th, 2013 at 10:44 AM ^
February 14th, 2013 at 10:49 AM ^
No, I'm just hoping for some civility around here this week.
Oh, now there's a Penn State sex abuse sanctions thread. *sigh* oh well.
Your comment upvoted for cracking me up.
February 14th, 2013 at 2:07 PM ^
February 14th, 2013 at 10:21 AM ^
it should be illegal for girls to play football, i am suggesting it might be a bad idea... just because you can do something, doesnt mean you should.
February 14th, 2013 at 10:27 AM ^
You only said you think the injury risk might be higher. It quite possibly is. But the thing to do is not to ban them from playing because they're girls.
The thing to do is to create a set of minimum safety requirements for size, weight and maybe a basic medical test like bone density for each level of football. Gender be damned, you have to meet those requirements to compete at that level. You meet, you can compete. You fail, you'll be stuck at the lower level until you age out of it.
The thing is, it sounds like this girl is gonna be pretty goiod sized. She likely never will fail to meet size/height requirements. Then it's just a matter of educating players/parents on the potential injuries, including, yes, discussions on where girl's athletic strengths differ from boys, and let them make that choice.
February 14th, 2013 at 10:29 AM ^
February 14th, 2013 at 10:42 AM ^
the choice of the organzation to make this decision Mr. Freedom fighter? Should it be protected too?
February 14th, 2013 at 10:38 AM ^
I have yet to see a snowmobile racer win a battle against a tree, for example. We should stop allowing all those dangerous activities.
Bubble-wrap anyone? Some people already come equipped with soft heads.
February 14th, 2013 at 10:22 AM ^
Seriously, I can remember in 5th grade there were a lot of girls that could kick my ass. I was scared of more than one of them. In High School, I remember watching so many girls beat boys during wrestling it wasn't even a big deal especially at the lower weights. I really don't understand why she can't play unless there is some safety issue.
February 14th, 2013 at 10:48 AM ^
are boobs a safety issue? And if so, the fact that all girls grow boobs at different ages, how could this be controled or whatever? just a thought..
February 14th, 2013 at 2:33 PM ^
February 14th, 2013 at 10:23 AM ^
How many kids do you remember playing baseball when you were a little kid that just plain freaking sucked. Yet somehow they played, and half the time they were on the mound walking the bases around and were usually the ones that made the third base coach duck because they couldn't even hold onto the bat.
If parents can foster the disillusionment of having their kids look like fools on the diamond, but they can't handle their golden boy getting sacked by a girl, they are just being ignorant of the reality that their kid just kinda sucks at sports.
February 14th, 2013 at 10:29 AM ^
Remember that this is the CYO's decision. There are no reported complaints from other parents. We'll hope that none of those come to light.
February 14th, 2013 at 10:35 AM ^
I understand, and to that point I absolutely think that the CYO needs to objectively evaluate a kid's safety within a certain set of bounds, and really that's about it.
My purpose in saying that was mostly to just be snarky, but I also wanted to remind everyone that ultiamtely her play/performance has nothing to do with being a girl. A 5th grade girl should be able to suck at football and still be allowed to play as long as she is eligible within a set of safety guidlines.
February 14th, 2013 at 11:17 AM ^
Right - this is the CYO's decision. As a City Youth Organization, do they receive any funds from the city? If so, would they be held to the same discrimination standards as any other government dept.?