OT: UFOs
- Ryan Graves, former Navy pilot Lieutenant, on how often the U.S. Military encounters UAPs on the East Coast: “Every day. Every day for at least a couple years.”
- Graves on what he thinks the objects are: “I would say, you know, the highest probability is it’s a threat observation program.”
What do you all think?
Personally, I find these stories amazing and can’t imagine where their technology is at to be able to accomplish those speeds. It’s an awfully big universe and I thinks it’s naive to think we’re alone.
But why does he have a target on his butthole? Not the store I mean.
Your comment literally made me wipe a tear. thx for that
Invaders from Uranus?
I'll have to go back and watch the '60 Minutes' report, because the DW article doesn't do it for me. I don't disbelieve - I know Earth is ~4.5B years old, and all signs point to the universe being ~14B years old, so there is other life somewhere. I wouldn't be surprised if a life form from some exoplanet, somewhere, is more advanced than us. But how long did it take for them to get here? Everything we know points to the speed of light as the fastest thing going, and it would take thousands of light years to get to most places we've identified. I'm intrigued, but I want to know more!
Theoretically possible is different from actually possible, as well... I'm not convinced that even given another couple billion years of technology development that we'll be able to travel (or even send an autonomous vehicle) at the speed of light.
A lot of assumptions going on here - we’re thinking thousands of years as an almost insurmountable period of time, but that’s just our relative perspective. It might be a short period of time if you don’t die in under a century.
Personally, I don’t think space is any place for organic travelers. Suspect if there are other sentient beings poking around, they’re silicon based (or whatever - non-organic) and spend a lot of time in a full virtual environment during interstellar travel. In that situation, you could easily speed up or slow down your experience of time - make a thousand years go by in a week, for instance, simply by slowing down the speed of processing dramatically. Hell, everyone could set their own relative “time-experience-speed”, and only sync those when they want to talk to other folk in their same virtual environment.
Heck, they might just be poking around Earth waiting for our AI descendants to become dominant - and welcome those non-organics to the interstellar community. After all, they’ll be way more suited for interstellar (hell, intrasolar) travel.
These ideas are explored well in Diaspora by Greg Egan - if anyone is a fan of hard scifi written by someone with an exceptional grounding in both physics and maths, this is your (contemporary) dude. Sorta a mysterious dude, too - he’s out of Australia IIRC, but nobody has ever photographed him. He’s created stories around beings that exist in entirely new (and seemingly self-consistent) physical constants.
Not a writer you read because the prose will speak to you, but the big ideas are quite exception and thoughtful.
Cheers.
I found my next rainy weekend book... thanks for the heads up. Sounds fascinating.
I'm spending far too much thinking about how combining the first two letters of his first and last names and the last two letters of his first and last names gives you the same name. GReg EGan. Is this a common thing and I am just now seeing it?
The theory goes well beyond my less-than-primitive understanding of quantum physics, but there is a hypothesis out there that asserts it is possible to bend the fabric of space using colossal amounts of gravitational force. It's the same principle that allows astrophysicists to project that black holes can actually engulf time with their gravitational field. So while light is the fastest moving linear force in the universe known to man, it could be possible to move areas of space closer to you by harnessing black hole levels of gravitational force in ways that the smartest humans don't quite yet understand. Worm holes is the laymen term most commonly use - rather traveling at the speed of light in a linear direction, bend space time to bring the object closer to you using gravity.
It's some far out there stuff, but apparently some astrophysicists believe it is theoretically possible.
You're thinking of the Alcubierre Drive. And yes, it requires a bit more math than I can comprehend... We'd also have to have a fusion power supply about the size of the Sun.
Yeah this has always been my biggest hang up. We are in the Galatic boondocks. Far from the center, out on one of the arms. So it would take a long time to get here no matter how fast you were going, and also why would you even want to head in that direction.
Actually the book Three Body Problem, involves an alien race coming from the nearest star and it takes them 450 years to reach earth. But as other people have said in this thread, it would have to be a life form with life expectancies in the hundreds to thousands of earth years, or have generational ships, or have really good hibernation technology.
About 15 years ago I was at a gathering. I was making small talk with some people I did not know and ask one of the group what he did for a living. He told us that he was a pilot in the military and then transitioned to be a pilot for one of the main comercial airlines. As a joke, I asked him if he had ever seen any UFOs. He got real serious, and said he was not supposed to talk about it, then quickly changed the subject.
I always think about that whenever UFOs are mentioned.
Close friend of the family was an astronaut. I have had the exact same conversation with him. Jokingly asked him if aliens are real, he looks me dead in the eyes and says "huntmich, I'm not allowed to talk about that."
I do not understand the 'I am not supposed to talk about it' line. Is the governement/Nasa simply trying to prevent panic and disorder?
(100% chance they were joking.)
It's a BS line from someone trying to act cool. The only proper answer to questions that would otherwise require classified information to answer is 'I can neither confirm nor deny', or maybe a quick 'no comment'. Saying you can't talk about it is akin to a confirmation - which you cannot do. But there are plenty of ways to politely say you can't talk about something without coming off like a dick...
EDIT: I should have replied to Champeen's post, but I'm not allowed to explain why I clicked 'Reply' on the wrong post...
How is this OT? It's very On Topic! It's good that the government is actually acknowledging it!
On Topic because it potentially opens up new recruiting areas? I don’t think that is what they mean by “planet-sized defensive tackles.”
I guess you never really know what these are, but as the OP says, its incredibly naive to assume that in this great, wide and vast universe, that there isn't at least one other planet out there that has produced intelligent life. It's almost statistically impossible, given the sheer size of the universe. Assuming we don't nuke ourselves into oblivion before they get here (which we probably will at this rate), the day they make contact will be the most important individual date in human history. Bar none.
I'm curious what it would also do for many of the world's religions. I know this question is treading into "no-no" territory on the blog, but I'm really curious what many of the world's religions have to say about the possibility of extraterrestrial life and how they would adapt to it. Seemingly many of their teachings/beliefs would be invalidated, or at least highly challenged, by the arrival of extraterrestrials.
Not looking to challenge people on their religion at all. I'd really be curious for an honest discussion on that.
"Seemingly many of their teachings/beliefs would be invalidated, or at least highly challenged ..."
You'd think so, but look at what people believed in 2020 (and still believe).
You could also look at how many people take "energy" drinks (Monster, Red Bull, etc.) seriously. There are numerous examples of people believing in things that make no sense.
There are some great theories and documentaries about why there might not be any other life in the universe at this point in time, a rabbit hole I went down before.
100%. To put into perspective, I've seen scientific estimates that there are more planets in the milky way galaxy alone than grains of sand on all the worlds beaches combined (how one would calculate this seems absurd, but it's been attempted apparently).
Then consider the fact their are hundreds of billions of known galaxies in the universe, and you get an idea just how unbelievably massive the universe is. It seems downright impossible there is not at least one other intelligent civilization somewhere in the universe, if not thousands.
along the lines of the fermi paradox i find the theories interesting that given the shear volume and numbers, there almost certainly has to be intelligent life out there. however, give how fast galaxies and masses are moving apart from each other in the vastness of the universe that nobody can over come those distances thus rendering us essentially all alone. BUT some stars and planets are billions of years older than us. possible an advanced civilization is that much older than us and their probes are reaching us and/or they can see all they need to with their satellites at such a distance we don’t detect them. too much for my little brain to comprehend without heavy psychedelics.
Maybe we should be looking down instead of up at the sky for the source of this strange technology? Like the ocean perhaps.
I'm sure there's intelligent life somewhere in the Universe, but the distances even to our nearest star are sooooooo vast, that I find the idea they're visiting us just to observe to be a stretch.
If a civilization were so advanced that they could travel those huge distances or they had in fact learned to open up and control wormholes or something to shorten the travel then they should have already colonized any habitable planet long before we even came up the idea for throwing spears at each other.
I absolutely believe there is other intelligent, likely even significantly more advanced, life out there in the universe. I'm not quite sold that they've come to our backwater neck of the woods only to randomly show up around pilots and do nothing else of significant consequence.
My general sense is that the vast majority of what these guys see is explainable or man-made, only they aren't privy to what's going on. There are likely some phenomena they're experiencing that are unexplained but even those I'm not sure would lead to them actually being alien life.
Um we literally go to remote areas of the rainforest to study insects... I don't think trying to understand the hypothetical motives of a hypothetical being much more advanced than us is really good reasoning. It's also quite possible that it's only our most advanced pilots/radar systems that are able to document these things in the sky (whatever they are).
By your analogy we actually take samples of these insects, set up camps for months to years, and make our presence known. We leave remnants behind, including surveillance materials and gear, because we plan on returning. A better analogy would be if humans only studied butterflies by zipping by them in wingsuits as they buzzed around in the air.
Also, a lot of the documentation in these cases is guys confirming visual recognition of some object. Commercial pilots have reported seeing these objects overhead, and in various stories and interviews I've seen the pilots make a point of saying they see these objects visually at times as well as on instrument.
Again, I think intelligent life exists out there. At the same time, the fastest means we've been able to determine is possibly physically is the speed of light, and the closest, similarly-sized galaxy to our own is Andromeda, at 2.5M light years away. So unless a being has been able to develop FTL travel (in which case they've also likely cracked numerous other previously-rock solid notions of physics and biology), that's a 2.5M year one-way trip. Maybe that's happened and I'd love to be proven wrong, but that feels like a stretch. That's why I take a lot of these stories with a big grain of salt, as I think these guys are telling the truth but also that there may well be terrestrial explanations for these events that they just aren't privy to.
"By your analogy we actually take samples of these insects, set up camps for months to years, and make our presence known. We leave remnants behind, including surveillance materials and gear, because we plan on returning. A better analogy would be if humans only studied butterflies by zipping by them in wingsuits as they buzzed around in the air."
While we do set up camps for months/years by these insects in the rainforest they in no way have the capacity to KNOW there is a human presence there. That's my whole point. There could very well be a massive intelligent presence studying us but our capacity to see and understand their equipment would be extremely limited, just like the insects and butterflies that we study.
"So unless a being has been able to develop FTL travel (in which case they've also likely cracked numerous other previously-rock solid notions of physics and biology), that's a 2.5M year one-way trip. Maybe that's happened and I'd love to be proven wrong, but that feels like a stretch."
What's more likely, that we have reached the pinnacle of understanding of this universe's physics? Or that we really aren't that special and there are means/methods of "travelling" distances that we as mammal primates can't comprehend. An intelligence hundreds of thousands, or millions of years advanced from us would very likely be doing things that we would think of as magic.
To further your point.. go back to 1900 and tell anyone in New York that if you get in this skinny, loud, aluminum tube.. you could be on the coast of California in 5-6 hours. Given the time and pentient for hospitalizing "mentally ill" at the time.. you'd have likely found yourself in a room with padded walls. But now it's a standard, give-no-thought part of life for us. We don't know what we don't know... and technology only increases exponentially. Nay-saying any technology now because we don't understand it is, in my opinion, pretty short-sighted.
I wasn’t convinced by the videos or by some of the hyperbolic breathlessness by the main guest on the 60 Minutes piece, but if taken as true, they totally buried the lede.
If objects are “defying the laws of physics” our biggest problem is that our understanding of physics is completely wrong. That has ramifications far greater than any other aspect of the story.
It's probably not that our understanding of physics is "completely wrong" - more likely that our understanding of physics is completely primitive. We simply have a lot more to learn.
Well, what I'm saying is the sources quoted in several of the news account keep using the same phrase, "defying the laws of physics." If an object does not behave in accord with our known laws of physics (and we're talking basic high-school/undergrad Newtonian mechanics here, not even the difficult quantum stuff), then they're not laws.
Put simply, if these accounts are true, we have to go back and re-do everything, not just fill in some gaps we're in the dark about.
Those gaps could well lead to redefining parts of the Standard Model, which may change some of the 'laws' we take for granted today. Science doesn't concern itself with things it cannot prove, and it is willing to change what it thinks as a result. But it certainly takes documented, repetitive results to change minds - as well it should. The 'laws' of physics have been proven in all the circumstances and situations we can mathematically put them through, but if there is something we don't know yet, well...
I do think we have a good grasp on physics, but also believe we still need to learn that much more...
I suspect lots of these are tests for tech that simulates craft behavior — I.e it’s not a man made aircraft doing this stuff, but something that makes it appear that there is an aircraft doing all that stuff. Just one dudes thoughts.
I'm most excited about possible football recruiting repercussions. Can we please expand our recruiting scope intergalactically and find a few interior DL space eaters (in the figurative and possibly literal sense)? Also imagine handing the ball off to a small tic-tac sized RB with physics-defying moves that has been coached by Mike Hart.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/05/10/how-the-pentagon-started-…
The New Yorker article is the best reading I've done on UAPs and draws on many of the same sources as the 60 minutes piece. I think it's pretty fair in pointing out the holes in the work of both proponents and skeptics.
I personally want to believe, but like with religion, I doubt it's something that we figure out in my lifetime. I'm trying to get comfortable with not knowing, and just feeling excited yet unsatisfied at every peek behind the veil of the unknown.
Finally a topic that isn't going to be divisive! s/
Seriously though, as someone mentioned, these declassified images/videos are the least compelling evidence the military has. The F18 (squad commander it should be noted) pilot said it came up right in front of his plane and then "disappeared" only to be pick up 60 miles away moments later by AES radar... Highly, highly unlikely these 2 planes weren't trying to capture it on their IR or targeting computers.
IF, and I stress if, there is tracking records for these event, as one former officer has attested too, as they played it back the day after, that's pretty compelling. Its not eye witness accounts, its actual US military technology capturing these physics defying behaviors.
While I you can't jump to extraterrestrials yet it does deserve further scrutiny, which the Pentagon is actively doing.
This blog has made me realize that guys will fight about anything.
The Dept of Defense has only acknowledged that the UAPs (Unidentified Aerial Phenomena) were taken by Navy pilots, and are not doctored. They are in no way implying that these things are alien or extraterrestrial in origin. Watch Mick West's Youtube channel. The videos can be explained. What the pilots "think" was impossible aerial acrobatics was in fact an illusion, with much more mundane explanations.
WTFI Mick West? I mean, I can start a YouTube channel and call nuclear power a hoax, so... Don't you think the military would accept such "mundane explanations" if it made sense to them? Or do you believe that they only want to tell the public - that relies on them for defense - that they don't know what's happening, or who it might be?
I don't know if this stuff is real, or not. But I do know that I won't be trusting some guy on YouTube over a host of Navy pilots, officers, and investigators.
The military doesn't know anything about technology.
Forget the lion. Dan Campbell should bring one of these to practice.
Man, you know the offseason is gonna be rough when the forum jumps the shark with UFO talk
I often wonder how long it took the former President to demand to see what was in Area 51. If there was anything in there, I can't image he would have been able to go an entire day without tweeting about it. I have to assume it either didn't happen or they showed him the fake rooms.
Trying not to sound like a kook here, but this is where the "deep state" argument comes up. From what I've read, sititing Presidents and elected congressmen (and congresswomen) can cycle through every two, four, six, etc. years... while the people running black projects and programs have no term limits.. so our elected officials are on a strictly "need to know" basis. Bill Clinton has joked in the past about inquiring about Area 51 and UFO's, and was simply told "no", or something along those lines. I highly doubt Trump was given access to anything just because he was curious, same goes for Biden and every President down the line.
Col Traber (Air Force fighter pilot) has been on numerous podcasts about a particular encounter that can not be explained. He saw an object with untraditional propulsion (no heat on IR) and absurd maneuverability that is not humanly possible (30 miles in a second and ended up where their gps systems were locked on for destination) - not to mention they were jamming their radar and it’s for sure not an artifact (error in reading equipment). The math says there are more advanced civilizations out there than we can imagine and the odds that some of those can travel light year distances by gaming physics (mostly theorized as gravitational manipulation) is pretty damn good. Idk. I think it’s worth a deep, long unbiased look.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Eco2s3-0zsQ
There isn't any credible math that allows us to estimate the amount of civilizations in our galaxy. All that we know is that it's greater than zero. We have exactly one sample point and that's it.
I was referring to the Drake equation and the generally accepted hypothesis that there are many civilizations in the universe; even just in the Milky Way.
If this is US technology, why would we fly these crafts (or whatever they are) near where our pilots fly maneuvers? Easily spotted and questioned.