Imagine if you applied for a job and they told you “for the first year we will pay you nothing, then based on how you do we can discuss your salary for year 2.”
I have a feeling you’d go somewhere else.
And your reply will likely be some form of “but it’s different for me, I earned it and these kids haven’t.”
Normally redshirts don’t matter but I was hoping they redshirt at least 2 freshman because the 2025 cycle is almost over, as crazy as that is, and May hasn’t had the time to build that class while he’s been trying to fill the roster.
Yeah I agree. And I think Tom Izzo even said something about how it isn’t worth using all 13 scholarships because you just trigger transfers from guys who don’t play.
I think there is a difference in this situation though because you have a new coach and 3 guys who probably know they aren’t getting minutes either way combined with a few guys who will be out of eligibility. So even if you have 16 guys on the roster, the path to playing time is not as crowded as it would be on a team run by a coach in his 5th year
Yeah if Goode was a walk on last year then the grad transfers could come as walk ons. I think there are a few rules about who can be a walk on. I’m a little fuzzy on them because they just voted on a new rule that “transfers are guaranteed 4 years or until graduation which every comes first.” But it’s unclear if this means every transfer you take gets a scholarship or just once you give a transfer scholarship you can’t rescind it. And either way that specific rule only applies to anyone who graduated HS in 2023 and beyond. There’s also a rule about anyone who took an official visit in HS can’t be a walk on. And then of course the big ten rule about once you are on scholarship you get 4 years. Also unclear how the Covid free year impacts any of that. GW3 may have also given up his 4 year promise by entering the portal and then removing himself from it. Again, kinda murky there.
So trying to make sense of all that, I would guess that any of the grad students could be converted to walk ons at a minimum. All the freshman will be on scholarship for sure. Everyone else is a maybe.
JJ grew up a fan, yes. But he was never on the verge of going there based on his visit and getting a bad vibe from Day. Somehow the internet has been retconned into believing the OSU beat’s version of events.
What I said is 100% what happened. Based both on insider articles at the time and also what JJs dad told someone I know on the huge discrepancy of the vibes they got on the visit from Day vs Harbaugh. I know we can’t we convince OSU fans, but we should stop repeating their made up version of events.
Edit: for further proof, this article from May 9, 2019, which is after his OSU visit but before his Michigan visit and before the story about “OSU said he couldn’t commit” came out.
I dont think he prioritized McCord over McCarthy. He had McCarthy visit first and pressured him to commit and JJ said he got a weird vibe and wanted to think it over. So Day took McCords commitment because he is lazy and didn’t want to fight for McCarthy. He mostly has this attitude of “I’m doing you a favor kid, so commit or gtfo”
Ironically he probably has a clearer path to playing time on Mays team as opposed to Juwans. The only wings/4s are Walters and Tschetter. Whereas before there was Nkamhoua, TWill, Jackson, Tschetter, and Khayat ahead of him.
Right now if you have an injury and some foul trouble, Jace might get in there. The big 10 has a lot burly wings that could push around all these 6-4 guards on the roster.
Yeah I debated between those 2 but just left it with the recruiting rankings. But yeah Rooths doesn't seem to have a lot of teams beating down his door.
Yeah comments like the above from ST3 are so incredibly self centered and lacking any awareness. It basically boils down to "this is what I did, so it should apply to everyone. No one deserves a cent more than I got, because it isn't fair to me. I'm the best and what I earned as a fast food worker 40 years ago is the absolute peak of what anyone deserves to be paid, because again, I am the best, and everyone else is worth less than me."
Count me as someone who wanted cord cutting and doesn’t complain about the options available to me now. That’s all I wanted. Options.
Also count me as someone who wanted free and open unlimited transfers with immediate eligibility. I am not complaining at all.
But I will continue to complain that college athletes don’t have a collectively bargained agreement and contracts. Because that is the obvious solution to solve everything.
My main problem is that college athletes still aren’t in the free market. They are the only segment of the population that is still not allowed to participate in a capatalistic society as you put it. And the only reason they aren’t is because “that’s how it’s always been, and we are afraid of change.”
The AD could have just as easily said: give us $40M to distribute to players and we will name the practice facility after you. The donors want to give money but they mostly follow the lead of the AD who sets the spending priorities.
That’s the guy who tried to ruin cfb risk by creating a bunch of OSU bots. Anything he says should be ignored.
Edit: now he’s negging me. You mad I called you out? What kind of fucking loser gets mad he can’t be the general of the Michigan risk team so he makes a bunch of bots to submit moves for OSU to try to tank a game. That is like what a 5 year old does
Wow so confrontational when you are the one who is incorrect.
The big ten started guaranteeing scholarships for 4 years in 2014. Its wild that a decade later people don’t know that. Also the NCAA passed a rule that went into effect this season guaranteeing scholarships for 5 years or graduation which ever comes first. Although that doesn’t apply to Jace since he started before that rule was changed.
I don’t think May is being polite. GW3 was in the portal so he presumably convinced him to withdraw because he prefers using a scholarship on him over some other portal options.
Yeah this is what I've been saying all along. In order to retain a guy like JJ, first you have to get JJ on campus. Underwood is the closest thing to JJ in this class or the next. He may be a complete bust. But that is a chance you gotta take, because in order to win championships, we need JJs (and all the other guys about to go high in the draft).
This is pretty good. I think an 11 man rotation might be a little high, probably in this situation, Howard is not playing those 3 min per game, and maybe even Brooks isn't playing either.
Also Wolf and Burnett averaged 31 mpg last year, so 20 min might be a little low for them.
I said prioritizing his 3 FAU recruits who all decommitted this week. Like he'd rather have the younger developmental guys for 4 years vs bringing in a bunch of 1 year rentals.
Terrance Shannon had a 124.8 otrg on 27.9% usage. Caleb Love had 112.8 otrg on 25.1% usage. Bufkin and Howard were 111 otrg on 21.7% usage. There is a huge difference in the on court performance of those two pairings, regardless of draft position.
Looking at Torvik's PRPG! metric shows the contrast in impact they had, 4.1 and 6.6 vs 3.6 and 3.4. Aside from Edey, Shannon is the best player in the big 10, and Caleb Love won Pac12 player of the year.
Yeah I think maybe the narrative on this blog has gotten a little too harsh on Jace. Maybe I missed something he did, but from what I've gathered, he was frustrated that his injury was misdiagnosed and it pretty much cost him his senior season. People in all walks of life get pretty upset at doctors that misdiagnose them, including insulting them, so I don't really fault him for doing something people on this blog have likely done.
Juwan did the same thing with Martelli, but man, what a contrast between Martelli and Boynton. Both former head coaches coming to be assistants. But one clearly on backside of his career and one still in the prime.
Even without McNeely, if you get the 3 FAU players, Wolf, Essegian, Dailey, and Rooths I think May can make the tournament with that team. The FAU team that was an 8 seed around the 50s, near Iowa and OSU - meaning you could go about 10-10 in the Big 10. With a decent non-con that is enough to make it to Dayton. So you're taking the best players from that FAU team, adding 2 high major transfers, Wolf, and you still have Burnett. That seems like enough of a core. Bring back GW3, play Tschetter and TWill spot minutes here and there and it could work.
I think the Big Ten conference agreed in 2014 that scholarships are 4 year agreements. I have no clue how the covid year impacts that.
The NCAA also started some new rule in 2022 that aid is guaranteed for "5 years or through graduation, whichever comes first." But that may not actually apply to Jace (?). It says something about first eligibility year being 2023-2024.
Pretty much said the same thing on the front page post. Wolf & Essigian is your 2022 class. Get Dailey and convince GW3 to come back. That is your 2023 class. Rooths and Brooks is your 2024. And given that we are already halfway through the 2025 cycle, I don't hate the idea of taking one of those flyer guys from FAU's class and redshirting them so you have a start on the 2025 class, which will need 3-5 guys.
Given Williams and Jace haven't entered the portal yet, and I expect they don't have enough of a highlight reel to get a lot of P5 interest, I think they will probably stay. Meaning you have 8 scholarships available. Ideal scenario seems to be the 3 FAU players, Wolf, Rooths, Dailey, Essegian, GW3.
With some NIL to the 3 FAU grad transfers, maybe you could have them walk on and stuff in the 3 FAU recruits or go for Anderson.
We may not know about Goldin, Davis, and Martin till after May 31, the deadline to withdraw from the draft.
Was going to say this would be a hire that says “we just want to make the tournament every year. Don’t care how you do it or what happens once you get there.”
Yeah in the midwest, I think the public will be down on Purdue after what happened last year. And I actually agree because I don't think Painter is a good tournament coach. So they will be picked less than the metrics say they should.
Not sure how difficult this would be to add, but maybe a button that flips the team and opponent boxes so you can quickly look at the matchup from both perspectives.
The pressure comes from the fact Beilein took Michigan to 2 final fours and now they just missed the tournament two years in a row. I don't think paying a buyout really moves the needle that much. It's more the fact that apathy has set in and there will be pressure to get fans excited about the team again, no matter who is the coach.
Its the dismissive attitude of Warde as "we are transformational, not transactional." as you state at the end...why can't it be both? Why can't you get paid relative to the value you produce and also get a great education? That is the point, no one is saying that Michigan needs to outbid every single football factory in the SEC, but when a kid is like "hey team X is offering me an NIL deal for $25k with a local pizza shop, what can you do?" and Michigan replies "we can offer you nothing now, but if you work real hard, in 4 years you will have a great degree and that will help you find a job." I think its understandable recruits are like "uh alright then no thanks." We love to tout the value of the Michigan degree, and I'm proud of mine for sure, but it is not like if you got your PhD from MSU instead you'd be living in a cardboard box on the street. The other schools offer degrees as well. And I don't expect The Michigan Degree to win out over every single lucrative offer these kids see.
And everyone is aware they get a scholarship, and that is a big benefit, but the market is showing that some kids are worth more than just a scholarship.
So yeah Michigan doesn't need to be dropping insane money on every recruit, but this holier than thou "our transformational experience is better than any transaction" is arrogant and insulting to recruits.
Also, 2 is wrong because you're saying that me and Seth can single handedly raise millions of dollars to compete with other schools for recruits. All fans are at the whims of those in power in this sport with no way out of it.
3. As I pointed out, I don't have a million dollars to give Bryce Underwood. And to reiterate, I am not complaining with how the donors spend their money. They are extremely generous with their money. My problem is with the way the AD spends that money.
As I state later in the thread, people keep talking about the pay proven players model. Sure that is all well and good when you got guys like Zak Zinter and JJ to commit back in 2019. We are 5 years later and the game has changed. You aren't getting the next 5 star QB without something up front. We've witnessed that for the last 2 cycles. Sure, you can get guys like Kendrick Bell, Jayden Denegal, Alex Orji to commit with the promise that they would have an opportunity to make money as a senior. But I don't think any of us think those guys will ever be as good as JJ. And you need those 5* QB types to be the foundation of a top tier team.
Recent Comments
Don’t expect to hear anything until June 1 when guys withdraw from the NBa draft
Imagine if you applied for a job and they told you “for the first year we will pay you nothing, then based on how you do we can discuss your salary for year 2.”
I have a feeling you’d go somewhere else.
And your reply will likely be some form of “but it’s different for me, I earned it and these kids haven’t.”
Normally redshirts don’t matter but I was hoping they redshirt at least 2 freshman because the 2025 cycle is almost over, as crazy as that is, and May hasn’t had the time to build that class while he’s been trying to fill the roster.
Yeah I agree. And I think Tom Izzo even said something about how it isn’t worth using all 13 scholarships because you just trigger transfers from guys who don’t play.
I think there is a difference in this situation though because you have a new coach and 3 guys who probably know they aren’t getting minutes either way combined with a few guys who will be out of eligibility. So even if you have 16 guys on the roster, the path to playing time is not as crowded as it would be on a team run by a coach in his 5th year
Yeah if Goode was a walk on last year then the grad transfers could come as walk ons. I think there are a few rules about who can be a walk on. I’m a little fuzzy on them because they just voted on a new rule that “transfers are guaranteed 4 years or until graduation which every comes first.” But it’s unclear if this means every transfer you take gets a scholarship or just once you give a transfer scholarship you can’t rescind it. And either way that specific rule only applies to anyone who graduated HS in 2023 and beyond. There’s also a rule about anyone who took an official visit in HS can’t be a walk on. And then of course the big ten rule about once you are on scholarship you get 4 years. Also unclear how the Covid free year impacts any of that. GW3 may have also given up his 4 year promise by entering the portal and then removing himself from it. Again, kinda murky there.
So trying to make sense of all that, I would guess that any of the grad students could be converted to walk ons at a minimum. All the freshman will be on scholarship for sure. Everyone else is a maybe.
JJ grew up a fan, yes. But he was never on the verge of going there based on his visit and getting a bad vibe from Day.
Somehow the internet has been retconned into believing the OSU beat’s version of events.
What I said is 100% what happened. Based both on insider articles at the time and also what JJs dad told someone I know on the huge discrepancy of the vibes they got on the visit from Day vs Harbaugh. I know we can’t we convince OSU fans, but we should stop repeating their made up version of events.
Edit: for further proof, this article from May 9, 2019, which is after his OSU visit but before his Michigan visit and before the story about “OSU said he couldn’t commit” came out.
How has your opinion of him changed from what you saw as a recruit vs what you saw at auburn
I dont think he prioritized McCord over McCarthy. He had McCarthy visit first and pressured him to commit and JJ said he got a weird vibe and wanted to think it over. So Day took McCords commitment because he is lazy and didn’t want to fight for McCarthy. He mostly has this attitude of “I’m doing you a favor kid, so commit or gtfo”
Ironically he probably has a clearer path to playing time on Mays team as opposed to Juwans. The only wings/4s are Walters and Tschetter. Whereas before there was Nkamhoua, TWill, Jackson, Tschetter, and Khayat ahead of him.
Right now if you have an injury and some foul trouble, Jace might get in there. The big 10 has a lot burly wings that could push around all these 6-4 guards on the roster.
Yeah agree the priority should be Goldin and Mahaney as 1 and 2.
I’d still like Mahaney but I don’t think you can fit him, Goldin, Cason, and Rooths. And potentially Elliott as well.
Hall, Marshall, and Cabana don’t have the in game reps to put them ahead of him either though. I think Dunlap is probably 4 right now.
So many people seem mad that the 4th string qb is playing like a 4th string qb
Yeah I debated between those 2 but just left it with the recruiting rankings. But yeah Rooths doesn't seem to have a lot of teams beating down his door.
Aside from how likely they are to commit, what is the ranking of the guard options?
something like: Davis, Gayle, Mahaney, Maddox, Donaldson, Holloway, Martin, King, Essegian... maybe?
Then recruit preference: Rooths, Pippen, Elliott, Cason
edit: nevermind I guess 247 would rank them: Davis, Mahaney, Holloway, Dug McDaniel, Gayle, Donaldson, Maddox, Martin, Frankie Collins, Essegian. King not listed.
edit2: On3 says Davis, Dug, Gayle, Martin, Holloway, Maddox, Frankie, Donaldson, Essegian. No Mahaney or King.
Yeah comments like the above from ST3 are so incredibly self centered and lacking any awareness. It basically boils down to "this is what I did, so it should apply to everyone. No one deserves a cent more than I got, because it isn't fair to me. I'm the best and what I earned as a fast food worker 40 years ago is the absolute peak of what anyone deserves to be paid, because again, I am the best, and everyone else is worth less than me."
Count me as someone who wanted cord cutting and doesn’t complain about the options available to me now. That’s all I wanted. Options.
Also count me as someone who wanted free and open unlimited transfers with immediate eligibility. I am not complaining at all.
But I will continue to complain that college athletes don’t have a collectively bargained agreement and contracts. Because that is the obvious solution to solve everything.
My main problem is that college athletes still aren’t in the free market. They are the only segment of the population that is still not allowed to participate in a capatalistic society as you put it. And the only reason they aren’t is because “that’s how it’s always been, and we are afraid of change.”
The AD could have just as easily said: give us $40M to distribute to players and we will name the practice facility after you. The donors want to give money but they mostly follow the lead of the AD who sets the spending priorities.
That’s the guy who tried to ruin cfb risk by creating a bunch of OSU bots. Anything he says should be ignored.
Edit: now he’s negging me. You mad I called you out? What kind of fucking loser gets mad he can’t be the general of the Michigan risk team so he makes a bunch of bots to submit moves for OSU to try to tank a game. That is like what a 5 year old does
Wow so confrontational when you are the one who is incorrect.
The big ten started guaranteeing scholarships for 4 years in 2014. Its wild that a decade later people don’t know that. Also the NCAA passed a rule that went into effect this season guaranteeing scholarships for 5 years or graduation which ever comes first. Although that doesn’t apply to Jace since he started before that rule was changed.
I don’t think May is being polite. GW3 was in the portal so he presumably convinced him to withdraw because he prefers using a scholarship on him over some other portal options.
Yeah this is what I've been saying all along. In order to retain a guy like JJ, first you have to get JJ on campus. Underwood is the closest thing to JJ in this class or the next. He may be a complete bust. But that is a chance you gotta take, because in order to win championships, we need JJs (and all the other guys about to go high in the draft).
This is pretty good. I think an 11 man rotation might be a little high, probably in this situation, Howard is not playing those 3 min per game, and maybe even Brooks isn't playing either.
Also Wolf and Burnett averaged 31 mpg last year, so 20 min might be a little low for them.
So you’re ignoring the whole season in favor of what they did in a single elimination game?
sure the best players on a 2 and 3 seed wouldn’t have made Michigan a good team.
Might be another reason they aren’t pursuing Boyd
I said prioritizing his 3 FAU recruits who all decommitted this week. Like he'd rather have the younger developmental guys for 4 years vs bringing in a bunch of 1 year rentals.
Terrance Shannon had a 124.8 otrg on 27.9% usage. Caleb Love had 112.8 otrg on 25.1% usage. Bufkin and Howard were 111 otrg on 21.7% usage. There is a huge difference in the on court performance of those two pairings, regardless of draft position.
Looking at Torvik's PRPG! metric shows the contrast in impact they had, 4.1 and 6.6 vs 3.6 and 3.4. Aside from Edey, Shannon is the best player in the big 10, and Caleb Love won Pac12 player of the year.
Could be that May is prioritizing his FAU recruits and didn't think there would be room. Or they are looking at OkSt or Georgia guys instead.
If this team had Shannon, Love, and Dickinson this year they are a 4 seed.
Might be a good time to update the depth chart by class.
Not great that Tuttle is injured. Also is there any talk of trying Cabana at WR? I think he should be more of a Deebo Samuel type.
I had high hopes for Bounds, but year 4 and not on the 2 deep isn't great.
I would consider all of them on the team until you hear otherwise.
I made this roster with Torvik's roster cast. He seems to project it being a pretty good team. Link
Yeah I think maybe the narrative on this blog has gotten a little too harsh on Jace. Maybe I missed something he did, but from what I've gathered, he was frustrated that his injury was misdiagnosed and it pretty much cost him his senior season. People in all walks of life get pretty upset at doctors that misdiagnose them, including insulting them, so I don't really fault him for doing something people on this blog have likely done.
Juwan did the same thing with Martelli, but man, what a contrast between Martelli and Boynton. Both former head coaches coming to be assistants. But one clearly on backside of his career and one still in the prime.
Even without McNeely, if you get the 3 FAU players, Wolf, Essegian, Dailey, and Rooths I think May can make the tournament with that team. The FAU team that was an 8 seed around the 50s, near Iowa and OSU - meaning you could go about 10-10 in the Big 10. With a decent non-con that is enough to make it to Dayton. So you're taking the best players from that FAU team, adding 2 high major transfers, Wolf, and you still have Burnett. That seems like enough of a core. Bring back GW3, play Tschetter and TWill spot minutes here and there and it could work.
Not a fan of that pronunciation. There is no vowel between the k and the d. Maybe we can get him to change his name.
I think the Big Ten conference agreed in 2014 that scholarships are 4 year agreements. I have no clue how the covid year impacts that.
The NCAA also started some new rule in 2022 that aid is guaranteed for "5 years or through graduation, whichever comes first." But that may not actually apply to Jace (?). It says something about first eligibility year being 2023-2024.
Yeah I guess my point is, no matter what any of us think of him, scholarships are guaranteed and he can't just be cut if he doesn't join the portal
edit: double
Pretty much said the same thing on the front page post. Wolf & Essigian is your 2022 class. Get Dailey and convince GW3 to come back. That is your 2023 class. Rooths and Brooks is your 2024. And given that we are already halfway through the 2025 cycle, I don't hate the idea of taking one of those flyer guys from FAU's class and redshirting them so you have a start on the 2025 class, which will need 3-5 guys.
Given Williams and Jace haven't entered the portal yet, and I expect they don't have enough of a highlight reel to get a lot of P5 interest, I think they will probably stay. Meaning you have 8 scholarships available. Ideal scenario seems to be the 3 FAU players, Wolf, Rooths, Dailey, Essegian, GW3.
With some NIL to the 3 FAU grad transfers, maybe you could have them walk on and stuff in the 3 FAU recruits or go for Anderson.
We may not know about Goldin, Davis, and Martin till after May 31, the deadline to withdraw from the draft.
Was going to say this would be a hire that says “we just want to make the tournament every year. Don’t care how you do it or what happens once you get there.”
Yeah in the midwest, I think the public will be down on Purdue after what happened last year. And I actually agree because I don't think Painter is a good tournament coach. So they will be picked less than the metrics say they should.
I wonder how much stock ADs are going to put into what May does this tournament. If he immediately loses in the first round, do they back off?
From what I can tell, the algorithm likes a very chalky South and Midwest.
Not sure how difficult this would be to add, but maybe a button that flips the team and opponent boxes so you can quickly look at the matchup from both perspectives.
The pressure comes from the fact Beilein took Michigan to 2 final fours and now they just missed the tournament two years in a row. I don't think paying a buyout really moves the needle that much. It's more the fact that apathy has set in and there will be pressure to get fans excited about the team again, no matter who is the coach.
What is Shaka's track record in a power conference? It's bad. I don't think he should even be under consideration.
Its the dismissive attitude of Warde as "we are transformational, not transactional." as you state at the end...why can't it be both? Why can't you get paid relative to the value you produce and also get a great education? That is the point, no one is saying that Michigan needs to outbid every single football factory in the SEC, but when a kid is like "hey team X is offering me an NIL deal for $25k with a local pizza shop, what can you do?" and Michigan replies "we can offer you nothing now, but if you work real hard, in 4 years you will have a great degree and that will help you find a job." I think its understandable recruits are like "uh alright then no thanks." We love to tout the value of the Michigan degree, and I'm proud of mine for sure, but it is not like if you got your PhD from MSU instead you'd be living in a cardboard box on the street. The other schools offer degrees as well. And I don't expect The Michigan Degree to win out over every single lucrative offer these kids see.
And everyone is aware they get a scholarship, and that is a big benefit, but the market is showing that some kids are worth more than just a scholarship.
So yeah Michigan doesn't need to be dropping insane money on every recruit, but this holier than thou "our transformational experience is better than any transaction" is arrogant and insulting to recruits.
Stop upvoting your own posts.
Also, 2 is wrong because you're saying that me and Seth can single handedly raise millions of dollars to compete with other schools for recruits. All fans are at the whims of those in power in this sport with no way out of it.
3. As I pointed out, I don't have a million dollars to give Bryce Underwood. And to reiterate, I am not complaining with how the donors spend their money. They are extremely generous with their money. My problem is with the way the AD spends that money.
As I state later in the thread, people keep talking about the pay proven players model. Sure that is all well and good when you got guys like Zak Zinter and JJ to commit back in 2019. We are 5 years later and the game has changed. You aren't getting the next 5 star QB without something up front. We've witnessed that for the last 2 cycles. Sure, you can get guys like Kendrick Bell, Jayden Denegal, Alex Orji to commit with the promise that they would have an opportunity to make money as a senior. But I don't think any of us think those guys will ever be as good as JJ. And you need those 5* QB types to be the foundation of a top tier team.