Breakdown Sports: Shea Patterson Film Breakdown and How He Fits
December 8th, 2017 at 10:13 AM ^
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December 8th, 2017 at 10:14 AM ^
He hasn't taken a snap under center in college. The flaw with taking Patterson is that he isn't the right fit and you are using a scholarship that could go somewhere else. If peters can't beat out the guy despite being in the same class and having 3 years in a system he probably isn't ever going to be the guy for this team so I don't care about that.
Rudock's rough transition into the offense cost us the utah and msu games that year. I'm nervous the same thing will happen next year with Patterson trying to learn a new system and working under center, and I'm nervous completely changing the offense for him sets back the incredibly young wr core.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:15 AM ^
But one of my clips in fact show him taking a snap under center. So he has done it, albeit relatively rarely. I wouldn't necessarily say Patterson isn't the correct fit, the system can be adapted to fit his skillset. There is a risk he doesn't fit, based on his skill set, agree, but I do not believe that is a given by any means.
December 8th, 2017 at 12:27 PM ^
can you do to an offense if you have two different QB's with two different skill sets? I guess my concern is that you take a complex offense and make it more complex.
Also, dumb question, our second year there were many quotes that Harbaugh offenses were very unpredictable. Were they this year or did we have to dumb them down too much?
December 8th, 2017 at 12:29 PM ^
and I agree with you that Shea isn't a sure thing to beat out Peters (or DM) in a typical Harbaugh offense (Power, Counters, Play-Action under center and WC from the gun).
Shea appears to break the pocket way too often for JH's concepts to flow correctly. That was part of JOK's issue as well, he just couldn't slide in the pocket for the 2nd or 3rd read because he couldn't see over the heads of 6'5" OL/DL obstacles. My view is that for both guys - Shea and JOK - their lack of height poses a physical limitation. Both guys flourished in a spread offense with simple reads and lots of rollouts. And don't get me wrong, Shea is way more talented than JOK. But because Shea is really short (actually only 6'0") he can't see or throw over a rushing DL and he has to break the pocket immediately to find guys. That is the style of his game because he is physically limited and can't actually see downfield once the OL/DL wall has moved closer to him.
Contrast that to Speight and Peters who have the physical tools to confidently slide a bit in the pocket and find the 2nd or 3rd receiver. That height and bulk is an advantage in a JH offense and why very few short QBs can make it in the league. OL/DL in the NFL are even taller / bigger than in college, heck many LBs in the league are 6'4".
Having said that, we need the depth so Shea is a definite take. But he needs to learn the playbook and demonstrate performance in the Power/PA/WC scheme which could take a while and is not a sure thing given his height. If he does play, the offense would need to be adapted just like they did for JOK and that is no sure thing to work either. These coaches are not spread guys and making them adapt is also a challenge. That experiment didn't really work in 2017. Shea makes it much more plausible, but that spread type approach still doesn't really fit this mix of coaches.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:19 AM ^
then we should probably just cancel the 2018 season. If Patterson isn't ready to be the QB at the beginning of the season, then Peters wins the job and you have two college ready backups.
I don't get the doom and gloom. Do people take the most possible pessimistic view on everything in their life or just Michigan football? I don't know how you would ever make a major decision in life if all you do is obsess with the worst case scenario.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:56 AM ^
Peters could be the guy, I'm saying if he can't beat out patterson I don't really care if he transfers because that would be an indication he will never be the guy so Patterson coming leading to Peters transferring isn't something that bothers me, unless it happens this spring because Peters is just really upset about the situation in whcih case our depth is shit again.
December 8th, 2017 at 12:03 PM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 8:21 PM ^
10 years of gloom has given us the football fans' variation of PTSD. We're always waiting for the other shoe to drop.
December 8th, 2017 at 9:29 PM ^
10 years of gloom has given us the football fans' variation of PTSD. We're always waiting for the other shoe to drop.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:21 AM ^
when those young wide receivers were about to start getting their first extended work with our incredibly young core of very talented QBs in an offense they have been learning for a couple of years.
December 8th, 2017 at 11:34 AM ^
You think we were winning them with the other QBs on our roster? Rudock both improved during the season and was an instant upgrade over what we had. Being nervous that it will be the same with Patterson is misguided.
A lot of terrible posts lately, but talking about a scholarship being wasted on Patterson might be a new low.
December 8th, 2017 at 12:06 PM ^
Pretty sure Rudock cost us the Utah game with throwing several picks. Got to within 7 and he then throws a pick six. But he gets a free pass with that being his first ever game in a Michigan uniform, after only having been on campus for three months, running an offense installed by a first year head coach. He improved leaps and bounds throughout the season. His Indiana, Penn State and Florida games were things of beauty.
The MSU (play which shall not be named) and OSU (team as a whole was just outclassed) games were definitely not on him.
December 8th, 2017 at 12:37 PM ^
think what he is saying is that, while Rudock made some mistakes and wasn't perfect, he was also not Shane Morris or redshirt freshman Wilton Speight, which were basically the only two other options at the time, neither viable. O'Korn wasn't eligible to play (nor would it have mattered if he was, it turns out). But for Rudock, that pick 6 means nothing because we would not have been in the game for it to matter.
December 8th, 2017 at 1:13 PM ^
I certainly don't believe that having Rudock on the roster cost us any games. He gave us a better chance, even when he struggled and we did lose.
An argument can be made that poor QB play cost us the Utah game. I'm not sure I completely agree that was the biggest reason. Not only did Perry make costly mistakes, but Chesson misplayed deep balls he should have caught.
December 8th, 2017 at 12:43 PM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 1:31 PM ^
and a punter not knowing what to do with it, cost us the MSU game. Not having his timing down, and missing some open receivers cost us the Utah game. It had nothing to do with a rough transition. He missed open receivers later in the year also. That kind of shit happens in openers, that's why teams usually schedule easy openers.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:27 AM ^
If he were taller and took snaps under center, then I’d say giddyup.
Just not sure about this.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:27 AM ^
Not a QB expert by any means, but one things I've noticed in watching all of Peters' games this year and watching Patterson's tape is the dramatic difference in their approaches to the game. Peters is clearly playing conservatively and to not make mistakes. Patterson is playing loose and making exciting plays but also making big mistakes. Really different styles.
I don't know if Harbaugh would abide the style Patterson shows in his highlight tape. And I wonder what Harbaugh's rules would do to Patterson's performance on the field. I don't think Harbaugh would be happy with some of the decisions that Patterson makes in his highlight tape, even on some of the plays that result in nice gains.
I also wonder if Peters had it beaten into his head so much to not make mistakes that it made him look less exciting and to have less potential to the Michigan fan base. To me, he was obviously coached to play it safe, take checkdowns, throw it away, etc. If he had more confidence and leeway to let it rip, we'd probably be more excited about his potential (and chalk up the inevitable turnovers that come with that approach to youth).
In sum, not sure how far apart Patterson and Peters really are, which may become more evident when they're both under the same coach with the same approach and scheme.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:35 AM ^
How about we look at the best case scenario? Peters and Patterson compete and bring out the best in each other with one learning from the other's strengths. The winner of this competition and the backup lead Michigan to a playoff birth where we make some noise before coming back in 2019 and winning the National Championship.
Then McCaffrey, Milton and Doyle learn from the 2 upperclassman and develop their own style based on the strengths of both.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:42 AM ^
the best case scenario is us winning the National Championship next season. And the year after.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:47 AM ^
We'll call my scenario the 2nd best scenario
December 8th, 2017 at 5:35 PM ^
I believe my friend
December 8th, 2017 at 11:52 AM ^
I think Harbaugh really loves his offense. The OSU game must have killed him - beautifully called, with open guys everywhere and running game working. Would have been a dissection if a QB could have delivered the ball to the open man.
That's who's winning the job: the QB who can deliver the ball to the open man.
December 8th, 2017 at 2:07 PM ^
The number of missed wide open receivers this year from game 1 through 12 this year is really hard to fathom. The fact that all 3 of our QBs missed multiple open guys is also crazy. You are right. All we need a guy who can make the throws he is supposed to make.
The osu game was the only game this season we consistently had open guys all day...that game still stings.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:32 AM ^
Where does McAffery fit into all of this. SOme people were saying the staff liked him better than Peters, but wanted to save his Red Shirt. I'd love to see him rise up and beat out both Patterson and Peters.
I also don't think Patterson is a slam dunk to be a success at Michigan.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:36 AM ^
because I have never heard of "McAffery"
December 8th, 2017 at 10:38 AM ^
As I recall Don Brown just praised him for being a very good scout team QB.
The DC praising scout team QB doesn't really get me thinking the offensive coaching staff thinks McCaffrey is the guy.
December 8th, 2017 at 12:25 PM ^
Are you suggesting that Don Brown being impressed with McCaffrey somehow means he's bad?
December 8th, 2017 at 1:17 PM ^
Brown's praising the scout team QB shouldn't be taken as a sign of where he stands relative to the other QBs.
December 8th, 2017 at 1:49 PM ^
This.
Don Brown isn't likely making playing time decisions for QBs. So his praise is encouraging, but I'd hardly say it means the general consensus of the coaching staff is that McCaffrey is superior to Peters.
December 8th, 2017 at 2:11 PM ^
Also, scout QBs try to mimic the offense Michigan will face that week. Brown might just be implying how well Dylan can imitate oppenents QB styles.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:50 AM ^
I'm concerned about two things: (1) Patterson's Forcier-like tendency to wave the football around when he runs instead of tucking it in. As you show in your highlights, that directly leads to getting the ball stripped. (2) like O'Korn, he is too quick to scramble instead of seeing the open receivers.
But bring him here and whoever is better between him and Peters will be better for it.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:51 AM ^
Why do some productive college QBs never seem to "get" the NFL? Game speed.
How does a QB react when events (like a defensive end blowing by an overmatched offensive tackle at the same time the first WR option is getting unexpectedly jammed) happen quickly?
This is one clear positive I see with Patterson. He seems to react quickly and confidently when the play "breaks."
December 8th, 2017 at 1:46 PM ^
I'm sure game speed is a part of it, but the windows in which to throw in the NFL are much tighter than in college and the hits are more vicious and seasons longer so QBs can't rely as much on running in the NFL. You can get by in college with okay arm stregth and accuracy, especially if you can run. In short, different skills are emphasized.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:56 AM ^
Especially to wide open receivers. He's a take!
GO BLUE!!
December 8th, 2017 at 11:05 AM ^
Thanks for doing this SC. To be fair to Patterson, on the 2nd interception you clipped it was 4th and 11 and he was running out of time. I'd prefer this than some QBs that inexplicably take a sack or throw it away on 4th down.
December 8th, 2017 at 11:06 AM ^
Our QB's were under pressure on 40% of drop backs this season. We have no idea who the RT and LT will be next season. We have no idea if they will be upgrades. We have hope but certainly no guarantee that the O line can keep a QB healthy next season.
I think for this reason it makes perfect sense to put a mobile QB in play, who is good at escaping and creating plays when the protection breaks down. I really like Peters in the long term but I don't want to see him continually take brutal shots.
December 8th, 2017 at 12:22 PM ^
I'm very worried about our O line. I think next year will be better, but we still have alot of issues and a bad O line put's a hard cap on how high we can go.
December 8th, 2017 at 12:45 PM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 3:25 PM ^
I keep hoping for some major off season development so we can get some 90's type line's; but we seem stuck in mediocrity there, and it's killing me.
December 8th, 2017 at 3:29 PM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 4:27 PM ^
Most of the pass pro issues we had this season appeared to be from mental lapses and missed assignments, rather than guys just whiffing on blocks or getting overpowered. So I have been clinging to the hopes that M can improve its pass protection through improved line calls from the center (yes, I realize if Ruiz or Spanellis was better than Kugler they would already be starting over him, but maybe the coaches didn't want to put too much on Ruiz's plate as a true freshman and 2018 Spanellis will be better than 2017 Kugler?) and more offseason work on stunt & twist pickups.
But I trust Reader71's opinion of line play better than anyone else's, so if he doesn't think this is realistic, then dammit all.
December 10th, 2017 at 4:44 AM ^
December 13th, 2017 at 11:12 AM ^
Just because Ruiz wasn't starting over Kugler this year does not mean he won't be an upgrade going into his second season. Brandon Peters was below O'Korn on the depth chart and I doubt anyone would say we won't be better at the QB position next year with Peters at the helm.
Either way, yeah a lot of work needs to be done on this OL. I just find it hard to believe that zero improvement will happen.
December 13th, 2017 at 11:06 AM ^
Expecting mass improvement may be unrealistic, but NO improvement at all? Seriously?
Another year in the system for the younger guys will help. JBB may not get any better but there is a chance younger guys can step up. A lot of talent, albeit unproven, on the roster waiting in the wings. Hard to think that no one steps up out of Filiaga, Stueber, Honigford, Hudson, etc. or that Ruiz, Onwenu and Bredeson don't get any better.
I'd expect at least some improvement in the pass pro, it likely won't be a stud OL next year but I just don't see how they can't get at least a little better.
December 8th, 2017 at 11:19 AM ^
If he'd been here this year, it's a no-brainer that he starts most if not all games.
But if you forced me to put money down on who starts at South Bend on Sept. 1, my bet is Brandon Peters. Steady guy, knows the offense, goes through his reads in the pocket (when he has one), keeps his eyes downfield when he's moving, and based on very limited data, doesn't look like he has a propensity to throw picks. And he'll have far more confidence next year.
With the defense we have coming back in 2018, a low-variance game manager who can hit the occasional deep ball to keep the safeties back is made-to-order for a playoff contender.
December 8th, 2017 at 11:46 AM ^
I'm anxious to see who comes out of the mix.
I'm really waiting to see what Dylan can do as we're all hearing really positive things.
Milton coming in and Shea only makes for a really solid and strong QB group.
We won't have to hold our collective breaths if someone goes down as we now will have capable QB's in wating.
Until our OL gets better, I like the feet on Shea. That might be his edge.
December 8th, 2017 at 12:17 PM ^
If the roster stays as is and we add Patterson it should be a good battle, but I don't see how Peters loses the job unless Patterson is in fact a world beater, which I do not think he is.
Milton is the ultimate boom or bust prospect.. I'm not so sure he provides any legitimate competition for a few years. His accuracy is atrocious. That said, yes he could be a future Heisman winner, but he is so raw right now. His game needs a few years in the oven. Earliest he would be making a push would likely be 2020 as a RS Soph.
December 8th, 2017 at 11:51 AM ^
Very excited to see Peters in the bowl game. Very excited to have Patterson if he comes to Michigan. Let's have great QB play. And let's take every opportunity that enables that.
O'Korn lost games. Peters looks like he can not lose them. Can he win them? We'll need that on the road next year. Take every chance to make sure we have a guy who can win games at the QB position. Most of the other positions on the field next year will have guys who can win games, can't waste that opportunity. That's the risk in not grabbing Patterson - another season of great players stifled by average (2016) or well below average (2017) QB play.