|07/15/2018 - 12:36pm||Shitty OL play and sending…||
Shitty OL play and sending out the 3rd string QB (effectively twice) also played a major role in lack of passing game production. Can't put all that on the WR/TE groups, not that I am defending their production (or lack thereof) just saying it's more complicated than we had a young, inexperienced group of pass catchers.
|06/23/2018 - 9:57am||Throw in some vitamins …||
Throw in some vitamins (steak) too.
|03/15/2018 - 2:25pm||Funny its day?! It is STILL||
Funny its day?! It is STILL funny today.
|01/27/2018 - 9:53am||He removed all doubt after||
He removed all doubt after last year's comeback to get ring #5. But yeah, Go Pats!
|01/12/2018 - 11:19am||Even a moderate floor guy||
Even a moderate floor guy that could provide depth at worst is worth a good look, IMO. We've got some talented kids on the roster but no one is proven and OL is a huge position of need. Even if he's just in the top third of all Conf USA OL I'd still take him.
|01/11/2018 - 10:14am||OL do tend to take longer to||
OL do tend to take longer to develop, in general. Of course there are exceptions to this rule, as there are to any rule. From what I've seen and heard from knowledgable former players it is around year 3 before an OL is where they need to be (RS Soph/Junior).
Sadly, the 2013/14 classes and Harbaugh's abbreviated first class due to the timing of his hiring has left us with little OL depth. But the guys he's brought in the last two classes should form the foundation for another Stanford-esque OL in the years to come.
I've posted this before and it's not a big secret either, but the major key in Stanford's rise under Harbaugh was a mauling OL. OL is a very cerebral position where you need super nerds, and that is all of Stanford's student body. Now, of course, Michigan is also an elite academic institution but it is no secret that Stanford's academic admission standards are on another level. So I attribute part of the OL issues to lack of depth leftover and the extreme youth we currently have. Not all kids can grasp all these concepts quickly.. and by numerous accounts and Harbaugh himself we know that his system is particularly taxing on the OL.
As you said, this is the brain trust (more or less) that created Stanford's OL, and system, and once the foundation was built, well we can see what they've done since Harbaugh got their flywheel spinning (10-3 on avg since 2010).
Regardless, something needs to change at least a little bit and with the staff changes it seems to clear to me that Harbaugh is indeed addressing it. Let's not also forget that basically this same staff ran an offense that averaged 40ppg in 2016 with a bunch of Hoke leftovers at OL that most would say weren't all that great.
2017 was disappointing for sure, but for me it's likely just a blip year and we'll look back on this and laugh that so many were being Chicken Little.
|01/09/2018 - 4:42pm||He's been intriguing in his||
He's been intriguing in his limited action. Not sure I've seen enough of him to get excited about his future though.. But I sure hope he's a contributor next year.
|01/05/2018 - 4:13pm||Word on the radio and other||
Word on the radio and other message boards is Bush isn't going to be a full-time assistant. So we're not actually "losing" him.
|01/04/2018 - 1:07pm||Who said we're implementing||
Who said we're implementing the pistol offense?
|01/03/2018 - 1:48pm||Well put. A lot of "fans" are||
Well put. A lot of "fans" are failing to realize that just because we're Michigan does not mean we'll automatically be on the same level as OSU, Bama and Clemson. OSU was churning full speed (with the one blip year) before Meyer arrived. Dabo took until year 4 before he won 10 games, and has parlayed that into an incredible run since (7 straight 10-win seasons).
Very interesting on the Carr and Bo tenures and average records. I think overachieving in 2015/16 really set up this year to be a disappointment. No one expected back to back 10-win seasons and then to expect a team that basically lost everyone to come back with mostly young and inexperienced guys and go out and win 11+ was a bit of a stretch. Yes, the defense reloaded but part of that is better coaching staff on that side of the ball and better talent/depth left behind by Hoke compared to the offense.
If Harbaugh had gone 8-5 in year 1 then back to back 10-win seasons no one would be complaining. But the reality is he did a lot with a group that only won 12 games the two years prior. Yes, this year was disappointing but 28-11 (9-3 on avg) over the past three years is a major improvement on the 20-18 (7-6 avg) of the three years prior to him arriving.
Yes, there are complaints to be made about the lack of 'progress' of the offense but Harbaugh has a track record in both college and the NFL, so guys like Cris Carter and whoever else can call him overrated and a bust here but after just three years he has done probably more than most pundits expected him to, despite not winning the Big Ten yet.
2013/14 recruiting classes left us with basically nothing this year, and 2015 was a late class given the timing of his hire. To win 28 games in three years with leftovers from a busted regime and just two full recruiting classes is impressive. No, it's not the 12-0 or more we would like, but like you said, maybe those expectations are a bit high at the moment.
Future is bright for sure. Go Blue!
|01/03/2018 - 11:05am||I'm with you. One HC and ONE||
I'm with you. One HC and ONE OC.. especially since our HC is Harbaugh, it's already a co-OC deal anyway.
As for scheme, I'm indifferent. Multiple always appealed to me because it can provide enough base variety to fit most types of players then it can be narrowed down and more 'custom fit' based on personnell and talent of the players at any given time.
Quite frankly, the biggest issue I see with the current scheme, is the severe lack of offensive depth/talent left by Hoke from the 2013/14 classes in addition to the late hire of Harbaugh (it was necessary yes) in 2015. We've really only got two Harbaugh classes and his offense puts a big stress on the OL. Not much in the way of elite OL leftover and it's hard to expect every guy they recruited to hit, especially in year 1 or 2.
|01/03/2018 - 10:41am||Where are you reading this?||
Where are you reading this?
|01/02/2018 - 6:20pm||That's like saying Denard||
That's like saying Denard Robinson was one of Michigan's best passing QB's because he had 2500 yards in 2010.
A lot of passing yards does not mean he's a great passer. Not knocking him as someone who cannot pass, but JT was a run first QB. He could pass but the NFL won't come calling for his passing abilities is what I'm saying. His passing threat was a direct result of his running threat, which was his strong suit.
Again, look at Denard in 2010. I doubt anyone would mark him down as one of our best passing QB's ever.. Denard's 2,570 yards was 9th all-time for most passing yards in a season at Michigan in 2010. And he's 5th all-time at Michigan in total passing yards.
|01/02/2018 - 3:51pm||WR issues don't concern me,||
WR issues don't concern me, at least as far as next year is concerned. Super young/inexperienced group. And we lost our best WR early in the season. Confident that DPJ, Black and Collins all take a good step forward next year (frosh to soph bump).
|01/01/2018 - 10:03am||It's all relative. I grew up||
It's all relative. I grew up in Rochester, NY and spent many years in the midwest (OH, IN and MI) before moving to TX and now FL so I've experienced more than my fair share of sub zero temps and overnight snowfalls of 12"+. But I've since acclimated to the great weather here and 50 degrees is really cold to me now. And yes, I absolutely complain about it!
|01/01/2018 - 9:40am||I'm with you but I think||
I'm with you but I think Michigan should still be firmly in control even if the score is "close"
|12/26/2017 - 11:05pm||He's a RS Jr so he doesn't||
He's a RS Jr so he doesn't need to come back to graduate.
As far as staying or going, I say strike while the iron is hot. Could he improve his stock? Possibly, but he's already a 3rd round guy, maybe late 2nd, so unless he REALLY improves over the next year he probably won't move up to 1st/2nd rd status.
Would absolutely love to see him back but if I were him I'd go. Degree in hand and on to the NFL. Best of luck to him regardless.
|12/22/2017 - 11:49am||If Haskins adds a true||
If Haskins adds a true passing dimension, like everyone says, then yeah I could see OSU being better with him. For as good as JT was there he was not a true passing threat at QB.
Regardless, OSU will always be good so fuck 'em!
|12/20/2017 - 10:04pm||If you have a pulse you can||
If you have a pulse you can get into an SEC school. Whether we "price ourselves out of the market" for some kids who may not meet standards, maybe but it's probably not that many and they likely weren't gonna come here to play school anyway. Honestly, I don't care if it does turn off some high level kids. Michigan is an elite academic institution and it isn't for everyone.
Stanford has (supposedly) higher admissions standards for athletes but Harbaugh did pretty well there and David Shaw has done very well there as well.
|12/20/2017 - 9:58pm||Is he really closer to seeing||
Is he really closer to seeing the field at Michigan? We have Bush already at locked in at one spot, three very talented guys that redshirted this year in Jordan Anthony, Drew Singleton and Josh Ross. Noah Furbush has acquitted himself very well and Hudson has the Viper locked down.
Not saying Reese wouldn't be able to see the field at all, but it's not like he could come in day 1 and be a major contributor. The likely path would be special teams his first year, like Bush and Hudson before him, but he could get that at UGA too.
|12/20/2017 - 9:41pm||Pretty sure they will make||
Pretty sure they will make room for Reese regardless, but it would be nice if he stuck with us. I doubt he does though.
|12/14/2017 - 11:37am||Sam Webb said his parents||
Sam Webb said his parents were on board with ND.. Hate them all you want, and I do too, but it is a good school. I can't fault a kid for going where his parents want him and he's gonna get a good education.
|12/13/2017 - 10:35pm||Seems to be a 50/50 battle||
Seems to be a 50/50 battle between us and ND.. I think he goes ND because of his parents.
|12/13/2017 - 10:34pm||I'm sure Belichick could find||
I'm sure Belichick could find some use for him.
|12/13/2017 - 11:12am||Just because Ruiz wasn't||
Just because Ruiz wasn't starting over Kugler this year does not mean he won't be an upgrade going into his second season. Brandon Peters was below O'Korn on the depth chart and I doubt anyone would say we won't be better at the QB position next year with Peters at the helm.
Either way, yeah a lot of work needs to be done on this OL. I just find it hard to believe that zero improvement will happen.
|12/13/2017 - 11:09am||OK, fair points.. So we||
OK, fair points.. So we could, in theory, lose to ND (2 conference losses isn't getting us the division and our other OOC are not that great WMU and SMU) and still win the B1G East at 8-1 and be an 11-2 B1G Champ in the playoff.. However, I'd prefer to not entertain losses to ND.
Edit: A loss to Wisconsin or OSU would be the only other "good" loss potential. I don't see PSU getting any better, in fact I think they drop off quite a bit. And a loss to OSU means we'd need them to lose 2 conference games again.. So I guess my point is based off our OOC schedule and the B1G being what it is, we'd be hard pressed to be 10-2 and make the B1G champ game and then the playoff.. Absolutely possible though.
|12/13/2017 - 11:06am||Expecting mass improvement||
Expecting mass improvement may be unrealistic, but NO improvement at all? Seriously?
Another year in the system for the younger guys will help. JBB may not get any better but there is a chance younger guys can step up. A lot of talent, albeit unproven, on the roster waiting in the wings. Hard to think that no one steps up out of Filiaga, Stueber, Honigford, Hudson, etc. or that Ruiz, Onwenu and Bredeson don't get any better.
I'd expect at least some improvement in the pass pro, it likely won't be a stud OL next year but I just don't see how they can't get at least a little better.
|12/13/2017 - 10:00am||As long as the dad is||
As long as the dad is qualified, a la Devin Bush Sr., then I don't have any issue with this either. Great stepping stone for guys to come in as an analyst, etc. and then move up in the college ranks.
|12/13/2017 - 9:02am||If the last two years have||
If the last two years have said anything about the committee, it's that they aren't putting in a two-loss team. Even if they win their conference, just ask PSU and OSU about that. No more than one loss and a Big Ten title gets us in.. but first let's worry about protecting whoever the QB is. Whoever is under center will be good, but if we can't protect them it doesn't matter.
|12/12/2017 - 7:58pm||Hopefully we can find two||
Hopefully we can find two between Filiaga, Stueber, Hudson and Honigford. But having two first year (of game experience anyway) players as your bookends isn't ideal. I'd bet JBB is the RT to at least start the season.
|12/12/2017 - 3:05pm||If we had someone who was||
If we had someone who was better at pass pro they'd already have been playing.
|12/12/2017 - 11:39am||He's 6'5" 300+ so it's||
He's 6'5" 300+ so it's possible he could be a T. Maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part though. My take on the 'versatility' was on the OL, since he's already shifted from DL to OL.
EDIT: Didn't see Magnus' comment, but I'd be inclined to believe him. GIve us all the Tackles!
|12/08/2017 - 12:17pm||If the roster stays as is and||
If the roster stays as is and we add Patterson it should be a good battle, but I don't see how Peters loses the job unless Patterson is in fact a world beater, which I do not think he is.
Milton is the ultimate boom or bust prospect.. I'm not so sure he provides any legitimate competition for a few years. His accuracy is atrocious. That said, yes he could be a future Heisman winner, but he is so raw right now. His game needs a few years in the oven. Earliest he would be making a push would likely be 2020 as a RS Soph.
|12/06/2017 - 2:27pm||Just for argument's sake.. I||
Just for argument's sake.. I am not picking your point apart and being a dick for the record, just curious and interested in some more discussion.
So you're saying that a kid should commit and then expect to not have to keep earning his spot as a starter? Because that's basically what Speight said he had to do coming into 2017, keep proving that he was the man every day.
Harbaugh has made his meritocracy thing very well-known. What this move says to me is that he is concerned about depth at the QB position and by bringing in another talented QB (like he has been every year via recruiting, and two kids in this class) he can not only elevate the competition level but also prevent a situation like we had this year. NOT saying I think it is right or wrong, just that's how I see it.
Another take is that, in addition to needed QB depth, maybe he feels that Peters isn't the guy anymore or maybe he needs someone other than a freshman to push him to be his best. There could be any number of reasons.
Ultimately, I am a Michigan fan like yourself and I always will be. But Harbaugh is human and he's gonna make mistakes. We saw that play out with the Swenson situation, and that's what I go back to here... he knows they didn't handle it correctly, but he's also made it clear you need to continue to improve both as a recruit and as a Michigan player. Something tells me he has already thought about the impacts, both positive and negative, of potentially bringing in a guy like Shea Patterson.
I think what a lot of people are assuming is that Patterson is the automatic day 1 starter.. I just don't see that. One, I am not sold on Patterson being a better fit in this system than Peters and two, Peters has had two years in this system. A complicated system by Harbaugh's own admission. Peters knew nothing would be handed to him, and as admirably as he played in his limited action we haven't exactly seen anything that should say yeah he is absolutely the man. IF Peters is truly the man then he'll prove it and win the job. If he's not then Patterson could win it.
As for longterm negative effect, yes there could be some but how much? If a kid is committing to Michigan he already knows Harbaugh takes at least one QB per cycle and will continue to do so. There will ALWAYS be competition for the Michigan starting QB spot. So while it may not "look good" for the program I don't see it really have much negative effect. Kids who shy away from competition aren't looking at us anyway. Alabama doesn't seem to have trouble with all the elite talent they get every year, neither does OSU. If Michigan wants to compete with the likes of the football elite, and we know Harbaugh does, then they need to be bringing in all the talent they can whenever they can.
But again, I am not so sure Patterson even beats out Peters anyway, so this all may be a moot point in the end.
|12/06/2017 - 2:09pm||I did not say we are||
I did not say we are "trading" players. I said that is what it essentially works out to be if Peters decides to leave. And yes, it does say something about Peters if he decides to leave instead of battle it out with Patterson. I'm not saying it's OK or right or anything, but if another QB is brought in and your move is to leave instead of sticking around and battling it out, yes that tells us a lot about him. For the record, I do NOT think Peters will leave if Patterson comes.
Peters would have still had to 'battle' Speight had he stayed. Not the same caliber player as Patterson, but Peters wasn't just going to be handed the reigns without having to still fight. Speight even said so much as well, that he was told he'd be a top QB but he was still in a competition splitting reps as fall camp rolled around.
I also never said anything about no longterm negative effects. That is absolutely a possibility but I also think Harbaugh has already considered this. Something tells me he wouldn't do longterm damage for short term success. Success that isn't even guaranteed with Patterson anyway.
All I was addressing is how the QB situation works out based on the scenarios I laid out.
EDIT: Honestly, I still think Peters has a huge leg up on Patterson, time in the system and in games under Harbaugh. A full bowl season of practices as well. I'm not sold on the fact that Patterson is an immediate starter at all. I think Peters is the starter in 2018, regardless of whether Patterson comes.
|12/06/2017 - 1:48pm||Won't be his last chance at||
Won't be his last chance at all. He has the spring and fall to prove it too.. assuming Patterson comes and is immediately eligible. And even if Patterson doesn't come, Peters still has to fend off McCaffery. Not locked that Peters would beat him out either. Very fluid situation still.
|12/06/2017 - 1:45pm||I hear ya but I don;t think||
I hear ya but I don;t think it matters in the end..
Here's the situation if Patterson doesn't come: Peters starter, DMcCaffery back-up then two true frosh. Not ideal depth but presumably a solid starter.
Patterson comes and Peters leaves: Patterson starter, back-up and depth is the exact same situation. Overall all we did is trade Patterson for Peters. I'll take that if Peters isn't willing to compete with Patterson, says a lot about him if that is the case.
So we're not really ending up worse off if Patterson comes and Peters leaves, it's essentially a wash.
BUT if Patterson comes, and Peters stays we have much better depth.
QB situation stays the same, or it gets better. Can't get worse. I don't see Patterson having any effect on McCaffery.
|12/06/2017 - 1:34pm||No precedent that I've heard||
No precedent that I've heard of..but what some seem to be intimating is that the whole "Ole Miss lied to us and misled us about who was responsible for all the violations and we wouldn't have come if they had told the truth" will be enough for the lawyers to get them immediate elibility. We shall see, but it doesn't seem like Patterson would transfer if he had to sit. Would make his path to be our starter all the harder because he'd have to beat out the incumbent 2018 starter (whether it be Peters or McCaffery). So there's that...
Personally I'm not holding my breath that the NCAA lets them play right away, especially for Harbaugh. But hey, stranger things have happened. Here's to hoping!
|12/06/2017 - 12:50pm||Hoping the NCAA does the||
Hoping the NCAA does the 'right' thing and gives these kids immediate eligibility is not something I'd bank on. But I'd still take all three even if they had to sit, though it seems like Patterson only comes if he's eligible right away.
|12/05/2017 - 4:47pm||He could end up anywhere, so||
He could end up anywhere, so I wouldn't worry about the RB classification at the moment. They'll move him around until he finds a home. Richard Sherman was a WR before Harbaugh, Gentry was a QB and now he's been a damn good TE for us. Hell, Brad Hawkins was a pretty good WR recruit who they moved to DB. Barrett won't play QB, that's all we really know.
|12/05/2017 - 4:43pm||Not saying I was impressed||
Not saying I was impressed with either Crawford or Thomas but we did get spoiled watching Peppers return kicks and punts. I think Thomas will get better, he's an electric enough athlete to be a great kick returner. Don't forget he was a true frosh.
|12/05/2017 - 1:39pm||Van Jefferson (class of '15)||
Van Jefferson (class of '15) would be eligibile right away, but both Anderson and Patterson (class of '16) would need some intervention to play next year. Will definitely be interesting to see how it all shakes out.
Regardless, nice to see former high level recruits giving us a look as a transfer destination. This doesn't happen under RR or Hoke.
EDIT: Looks like Van redshirted his frosh year, making it seem like all three would need intervention to play immediately. Still take any or all of them.
|12/05/2017 - 1:27pm||Honestly, I always felt the||
Honestly, I always felt the best way to do this (crown a true champion) was a plus one system. Season and bowls and their alliances stay the same, after all bowls and redoing the polls THEN the #1 and #2 teams play for all the marbles a week or so later. No, that is not what the BCS brought us either. In this scenario we see Michigan beat up Scott Frost and his Nebraska team in 1997, instead of BS shared titles. Anyway, that is a pipe dream...
Since this is the system we have I think 8 is reasonable, all P5 champs plus 3 at-large bids. But a complete reseeding would be needed once those 8 are chosen. Would be the P5 champs then the 3 highest ranked non conf champs but an 11-1 Bama would likely be seeded higher than a 10-3 Pac12 USC team, as in this year.
Would you leave out a one-loss Michigan if it was in the last game to OSU and OSU won the conf with two losses, probably not.
The committee clearly felt this way last year and this year, a one-loss OSU was preferable to a 2-loss PSU last year and the same goes for Bama in over OSU this year.. conf champ games are just one factor in the decision. If all P5 champs get in then those games matters again, and I'm sure we can always find 3 worthy at-large teams.. The Game and The Iron Bowl still have ramifications for the conference titles..
|12/05/2017 - 12:13pm||But if Newsome is on medical||
But if Newsome is on medical scholarship, like they offered Matt Falcon, he wouldn't count towards the player limit thus opening up a spot.
|12/05/2017 - 12:10pm||He also said this..
He also said this..
|12/05/2017 - 12:06pm||Pretty sure he was joking||
Pretty sure he was joking with the guy but we shouldn't rule out Herm being nuts. I mean, ASU?
|12/05/2017 - 11:56am||Not a doctor either, but have||
Not a doctor either, but have several friends who are and while nothing is ever an absolute situation they've all stressed that it's not likely he returns..
I mean, I hope for the best and if he could be back at even 70% of what he was it'd be great. It just seems like we're setting ourselves up for massive disappointment if we're expecting him to be back on a football field.
|12/05/2017 - 10:16am||Yes but the problem with OL||
Yes but the problem with OL is that it is not a spot for a true frosh to come in and be an immediate impact. The OL needs to improve, absolutely, but it's not gonna come from a 2018 kid. It is VERY rare that a true frosh OL is a stud or even good so banking on an 18 year old kid is just gonna end in disappointment.
Better bet is that two of Filiaga, Stueber, Honigford, Hudson or someone else develops enough to provide us solid bookends. JBB is the assumed RT unless someone blows him out of the water.
No, I did not include Newsome because I seriously doubt he can come back and play football and even if he does it won't be at the level it was before that injury. I hope I'm wrong, we could use him, but an injury that causes you to lose almost two years is really bad.
|12/04/2017 - 1:52pm||Haha, yep! Only Urban Meyer||
Haha, yep! Only Urban Meyer QB to have any consistent success in the NFL and that didn't even happen until he met Jim Harbaugh.
|12/04/2017 - 1:50pm||Fair but coming into this||
Fair but coming into this season he did not look as good as he did last year pre-injury. At that point it's likely a mental issue. Regardless, the OL was a major cause of a lot of issues we had this year no matter who was back there. Is what it is now and Speight is gone and Peters is the man going forward. I don't think Patterson does more than just push him, IF he does come that is.