Mailbag: Vintage Punt/Counterpunt, Hurst Bowl, Patterson Transfer, Getting Served
Vintage Punt/Counterpunt.
I found my copy of the free game program from The Game 20 years ago in a box of old school stuff. Thought you guys might enjoy the Punt / Counterpunt column from that day.
Go Blue!
Here's a zoomed in version.
Thanks to Nick and Ken for being a formative part of my fandom.
Hurst take.
If Hurst is worried about getting injured and the NFL draft. Lloyds of London will insure him for injury for the one game.
So you're asking Mo Hurst to literally pay for the privilege of playing in a football game that is mostly interesting because it will feature Ryan Nanni as a bloomin' onion? Nah.
I'd be vaguely upset if Hurst wasn't going to play in a New Year's Six game but more or less understand. The Outback Bowl? Hurst going in the top ten of the draft is probably more helpful to the program in the long term than whatever bonus chance he provides of beating South Carolina.
If you want players to compete in dink bowl games, there's an easy way to do so: pay them and sign them to a contract that says "you play in bowl games."
Recruiting is DISAPPOINT.
Is it fair to say, absent a change in trajectory, that '18 recruiting heads toward at best "unexciting", possibly even "disappointing"? I guess I have grown quite used to having a consensus top 100 'bell cow' (I loved it when K Jackson used to call FB players bell cows) at basically every position group, and a difference-maker (DPJ - Solomon) for each unit. Is that a reasonable standard, or is that Osu/Bama, which I don't think is realistic until we experience some playoff success and maybe never, given relative boundary-pushing of three programs. (Although the rush to Oxford has me questioning my prejudices.)
Thanks, dirk
I'd say unexciting is about right. Michigan's sole composite top 100 prospect right now, Otis Reese, is pretty wobbly. That's a comedown from Harbaugh's first two full efforts, which delivered guys like Rashan Gary, Donovan Peoples-Jones, Aubrey Solomon, and Cesar Ruiz—amongst many others.
There are a lot of reasons for this: it's a severely down year in-state; Michigan had to hire yet another recruiting director; playing time is hard to sell when you return a zillion starters. And, yes, Michigan is working uphill for a lot of guys because they don't have a bagman network—at least that's what I've heard from guys close to the program for years.
But the class is still 11th and should add a couple additional big fish to finish. Adding the three Ole Miss players also helps fill scholarships with talented players. And this looks like a blip. Michigan already has two five-star-ish DEs in the 2019 class plus top 100 guard Nolan Rumler and four-star LB Charles Thomas. I expect Michigan to bounce back to their previous level in 2019 now that they've got what looks like a solid recruiting infrastructure that isn't going to take a position coaching job next year.
Patterson feels.
Brian/Ace,
I am sure if I posted this as a thread I would be down voted as a babe in the woods and comments of “this is what it takes to beat OSU and Alabama” would rain down from the heavens. But i have to say, going after Peterson when you have two VERY good QBs that harbaugh recruited in the stable feels very unmichigan. What say you?
Thank you again for all you do and next year, please think of adding Boston to your season preview tour. We would love to host!
Best,
Quinn
I don't think taking a transfer is a problem. Players at the same position as that guy might be a little cheesed off, but I'm sure Harbaugh didn't promise them they'd get to start. Because that's crazy. But that doesn't mean it's wrong. If Patterson does come in and start—which is not a foregone conclusion—because he's the best option, that's a negative for the other quarterbacks but a positive for the rest of the team.
Michigan doesn't take JUCOs because they can't get them through admissions, and I guess that's the reason taking a transfer seems weird? I find this take baffling. Recruiting kids in college isn't any different than recruiting them in high school. And if a school that was flagrantly buying guys out from under Michigan's nose suffers as a result, all the better.
I GET EMAILS.
So, as a lawyer I got to thinking, .Maybe a lawsuit for violating the Constitutions First Amendmenment protection of Free Speech is in order. Maybe Ill win maybe I wont Probably will) but even if not , it wont cost me one nickle. However you will need a battery of lawyers to deal the various and numerous motions I could file. Hope you have deep pockets.
Expect to be served
Matt Mann
This gentleman was upset that I shut the comments down and has challenged me to a dance-off.
ASSEMBLE YOUR CREW, SIR.
December 8th, 2017 at 5:05 PM ^
And that is a major problem on todays ultra progressive college campuses. Places that are supposed to be bastions of free thought are turning into fascist indoctrination centers.
December 8th, 2017 at 5:05 PM ^
And that is a major problem on todays ultra progressive college campuses. Places that are supposed to be bastions of free thought are turning into fascist indoctrination centers.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:19 PM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 1:28 PM ^
if you do some well pointed quick googling, if its the same one I found he had his license suspended at one point.... so yeah that all jives with his email, grammar, and 1st amendment prowess
December 8th, 2017 at 1:29 PM ^
First, filing a lawsuit is not free. Second, filing a frivolous lawsuit exposes you to a court order requiring you to pay for the opposing party's court costs and attorney's fees which can be pretty pricey. In any event, that is the dumbest e-mail I've seen in a looooong time.
December 8th, 2017 at 1:30 PM ^
Matt Mann is a wambulance chaser.
December 8th, 2017 at 1:33 PM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 1:43 PM ^
Hurst biggest problem is that he's about 280 lbs and his style of play doesn't make him a fit as a DE for a lot of the 3-4 schemes out there. If he were 295+ he would be in the top 20.
December 8th, 2017 at 1:34 PM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 1:36 PM ^
There are idiots out there.
Go Blue.
December 8th, 2017 at 1:41 PM ^
You may wish to point Matt Mann, Esquire to MCL 600.2591.
600.2591 Frivolous civil action or defense to civil action; awarding costs and fees to prevailing party; definitions.
Sec. 2591.
(1) Upon motion of any party, if a court finds that a civil action or defense to a civil action was frivolous, the court that conducts the civil action shall award to the prevailing party the costs and fees incurred by that party in connection with the civil action by assessing the costs and fees against the nonprevailing party and their attorney.
(2) The amount of costs and fees awarded under this section shall include all reasonable costs actually incurred by the prevailing party and any costs allowed by law or by court rule, including court costs and reasonable attorney fees.
(3) As used in this section:
(a) “Frivolous” means that at least 1 of the following conditions is met:
(i) The party's primary purpose in initiating the action or asserting the defense was to harass, embarrass, or injure the prevailing party.
(ii) The party had no reasonable basis to believe that the facts underlying that party's legal position were in fact true.
(iii) The party's legal position was devoid of arguable legal merit.
(b) “Prevailing party” means a party who wins on the entire record.
December 8th, 2017 at 1:41 PM ^
Brian is Omarion
Other guy is blonde Dragon Ball hair dude
December 8th, 2017 at 1:43 PM ^
I haven't seen this written elsewhere, but isn't there a silver lining for the team if Hurst doesn't play? Assuming Chase doesn't also go pro, it's a great way to see how different lineups play looking forward to 2018.
I really, really want to beat ND next year.
December 8th, 2017 at 2:24 PM ^
I thought Math Man was blue all the way.
December 9th, 2017 at 10:25 AM ^
is that I cannot give this more than one upvote.
December 8th, 2017 at 1:50 PM ^
"So, as a lawyer I got to thinking, .Maybe a lawsuit for violating the ..."
I am fairly certain that no letter from a lawyer ever started with so many grammatical problems. But, that's just a hunch. LAWYER UP FOLKS
December 8th, 2017 at 1:59 PM ^
Brian,
If Matt Mann really were to sue you, I hereby offer my legal services ro defend you in the matter. My resume:
Experience: 15+ years as a litigator
Rate: accepts payment in either Bitcoin or at a rate of 500 MGoPoints an hour
Comparison to Matt Mann: knows that the 1st Amendment (and likely the 1st Amendmentment, but I haven't looked) doesn't apply to anyone but the government; also, not a huge douche.
December 8th, 2017 at 2:39 PM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 2:00 PM ^
What if it's some other lawyer (or worse, Russian operative!) trying to besmirch the good name of Matt Mann?!??? He's playing us all for fools!
December 8th, 2017 at 2:03 PM ^
Personally, when I hear the name Matt Mann, I tend to think of the pool that used to be where Cliff Keen arena now stands.
December 8th, 2017 at 2:08 PM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 2:12 PM ^
I don't understand the "don't bring Patterson here" camp. Without Speight, O'Korn, and Malzone they are down to one quarterback who has actually taken a snap. Peters, McCaffrey, and two true freshman are what will be on the roster this spring. It's a no brainer to bring an experienced guy in, and a top end guy just makes all the more sense if available. Every top team in the country has a stable of QB's that were highly ranked out of HS. Why is it a bad thing to have three or four legit guys on Michigan's roster who can play.
December 8th, 2017 at 2:21 PM ^
I get this argument, but as one of the "let's pump the breaks on Patterson", it's more that it feels like people are assuming this year's crazy injury run at QB will continue. I'm not sure if it's a good use of limited roster/scholarship resources to have a 3rd-place guy on your roster just in case something happens to the first two guys. As you said, they'll have 4 guys on the roster next year who could platy QB. In the event Michigan loses both Peters and McCaffrey to injury again, then the bigger issue is that they still can't freaking block worth a damn on passing downs in all likelihood, at which point I'd rather spend that scholarship on another guard or tackle prospect. We always talk about loterry tickets with QBs, but linemen are the same thing, and Michigan has 4-ish lottery tickets at QB and in the ballpark of 3-ish lineman-sized human beings coming in this year. And that doesn't even address the possibility that Patterson merely replaces Peters on the roster, so in effect it's somewhat of an upgrade at the spot but with no increase in depth.
Again, I get people wanting to take Patterson, and he is talented. But I have been saying all along that this team's struggles passing the ball aren't so much about the QB as it is the offense overall not being able to block or catch all that well.
December 8th, 2017 at 2:42 PM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 3:44 PM ^
I'd counter-counter that had Michigan had quality offensive line play, they wouldn't have been down to their third-string QB.
This is poised to be a pretty small class, and if Michigan takes all 3 transfers then it just limits your ability to take a flyer on a fringe offensive lineman who, say, turns into a really good tackle or guard. Hell, two of the best lineman to come out of Michigan in the past decade were low-level recruits (Glasgow and Molk), and even a guy like Taylor Lewan wasn't screamingly obvious as a future AA. So to me, if you have a position where only 1 guy can conceivably play most games and you have questions about 3-4 guys tasked with blocking for him, I'd be careful about just assuming you'll figure out the blocking and you need bodies at QB.
Also, is Patterson really the revelation we keep saying he is? When he actually played this year against P5 teams, he threw about as many picks as TDs and struggled to move the ball against most of the good defenses he saw. Obviously Ole Miss had its issues, but he also seemed to have really good WRs and his offensive line wasn't terrible at pass blocking (they finished 59th at adjusted sack rate this year; Michigan was 118th). And for all that, he finished with a ypa about a half-yard less than Peters (7.3 compared to 7.8) against P5 teams, and even that might be a bit misleading since he was really bad against Auburn and Alabama until the game was well out of hand.
Again, I'm fine if comes to Michigan, but that means (assuming nobody leaves) Michigan had 5 QBs on the roster, including two who you'd presume expect to be starters, and one of them is going to have to learn a whole new offense while (likely) dealing with the NCAA putting up some form of a stink about him transferring. I just don't have faith this will be the smoothest roster turnover in the world, and for a team that is poised to be really good next year I could see a situation where Patterson and Peters don't really distinguish themselves, we get some flip-flopping/each guy gets a series couple of games, and the team overall struggles because of the uncertainty.
December 8th, 2017 at 4:00 PM ^
![](<a href="https://ibb.co/i2xhZb"><img src="https://preview.ibb.co/iQ6bub/appeal_to_authority.png" alt="appeal_to_authority" border="0"></a>)
December 9th, 2017 at 10:17 AM ^
Vastly superior level of knowledge, experience, and day to day interaction with the situation fits better than simply "authority" in this situation.
I"d like to know how much time all the offensive line bashers think you are supposed to give a quarterback against Wisconsin in Madison and OSU with all those 5 stars? It's not Cincinatti in September. Guys with the ball in their hands have to make plays.
It improved and improved drastically in some areas and measured if not great in pass blocking. In both games: make simple reads and throws = win game.
December 8th, 2017 at 3:27 PM ^
Patterson would not be the 3rd place guy on this team. If he comes in, he is the most talented QB on the team. Peters is close though so it will be a battle.
December 8th, 2017 at 2:13 PM ^
I assumed the lawyer letter was just a joke, since it's like Internet 101 to claim any chance you don't get to say dumb shit as an invalidation of your right against government interference.
I guess I'm going to die on this hill, but I do think bringing in Patterson will be a short-term semi-gain (he will struggle, but he'll probably be fine) but could cause some depth issues if, say, Peters transfers before the season because he loses the job. Or else if Patterson doesn't get the spot, then you have a guy who was the #1 QB in his class transferring to be a backup, and you're more optimistic than me if you don't think that becomes a distraction of some form.
December 8th, 2017 at 2:22 PM ^
1) I liked this plan someone posted this morning.. Patterson transfers in, not eligible for one year. Peters starts and wins Heisman, goes NFL. Next year, Patterson wins Heisman, goes NFL. 3rd year, McCaffery.'s turn Credit to whoever the OP was!
2) Sam's idea from this morning on a solution to situations like what Mo Hurst is facing, especially after what happened to Jake Butt last year: Have the bowls provide insurance policy to draft eligible players. Why not? They've got the money.
December 8th, 2017 at 2:41 PM ^
but wouldn't that second solution be an impermissible benefit per the NCAA?
December 8th, 2017 at 2:55 PM ^
When the Patterson news broke, I was all in favor of him coming. Now I am pretty ambivalent. Ultimately since I have no direct knowledge I just have to trust that if Harbaugh thinks it's worth the risk, then we should go for it. But I realy hope we don't lose Peters or McCaffrey. If one of them were to transfer out and Patterson only stay one season, it would need to be one hell of a season for me to think it was worth it.
December 8th, 2017 at 3:17 PM ^
IF Patterson wins the job he will either go pro after the year (Ole Miss folks claim that is his goal) or stay for his final season.
At that point and time Peters will either stay to take over for Patterson or go the 2-year grad transfer route ala Malzone depending on what Shea does.
This leaves Patterson or Peters in 2019 with a RS Soph DMC and 2nd year Milton and the other guy (name?) competing — a much better situation than we currently have heading into 2018.
December 8th, 2017 at 2:22 PM ^
So you're asking Mo Hurst to literally pay for the privilege of playing in a football game
Well, not literally. He already has the privilege of playing in the game, but he does have to pay for the privilege of insuring himself in case of loss resulting from playing in the game. The problem with Hurst's situation is not whether he can or should play, or even the question of insuring himself; his problem is that he doesn't have the resources to properly assess his options, in contrast to what Jake Butt was able to do just last year. I really hope the university can help as much as possible on the legal and financial side to help him make the best possible decision.
December 8th, 2017 at 4:40 PM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 2:22 PM ^
xkcd dot com slash 1357
People man... I'm sure that guy is a "lawyer" the same way I'm an "astronaut."
December 8th, 2017 at 2:31 PM ^
Whoever wins the QB competition this year will likely be very good, and ecouraged to enter the draft I am fairly certain. There has been a relatively larger shift in QBs draft placement especiially the #4-6 range, NFL teams now regard the position with renewed importance, either you have the man, or you better be trying to find him.
It may seem a bold prediction but I would be willing to bet, the winner of next years QB competition ends up drafted in the first 2 days of the draft. I've known a couple guys that played for Harbs at Standford, and on the practice squads for the 49ers, and hey're take on Jimmy is the same. He's a hard ass fucker that shots straight and treats everyone equally. They got the firm handshake at one point but weren't left with any angst. They aren't sending christmas cards but have temendous respect for the way he handles everything, Everyone worried about players feelings probably don't understand the mental make up of succesful atheltes.
December 8th, 2017 at 2:32 PM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 2:47 PM ^
So, as a lawyer I got to thinking, (1 superfluous comma) .Maybe a lawsuit for violating the Constitutions (2 missing possessive apostrophe) First Amendmenment (3 misspelling) protection of Free Speech is in order. Maybe Ill (4 missing apostrophe) win maybe I wont (5 missing apostrophe) Probably will) (6 unnecessary parentheses) but even if not , (7 extra space after comma) it wont (8 missing apostrophe) cost me one nickle. (9 misspelling) However (10 missing comma) you will need a battery of lawyers to deal the various and numerous motions I could file. Hope you have deep pockets.
Expect to be served (11 missing comma or period)
Matt Mann
December 8th, 2017 at 3:17 PM ^
I like the way you did this, Don. You covered the grammar and spelling; let me try a run at the substantive flaws:
December 8th, 2017 at 4:38 PM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 2:48 PM ^
See you in Pasadena.
I read that 20 years ago and can actually remember the feeling it gave me at the time. What a game, what a season.
December 8th, 2017 at 2:50 PM ^
For a lawyer
1. You have terrible grammar
2. You have zero understanding of the constitution and how the 1st amedment works.
Can we get this guys name, so no one on earth ever retains this clown?
December 8th, 2017 at 3:06 PM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 4:34 PM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 3:11 PM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 3:44 PM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 4:21 PM ^
Brian, drop me a line and I’ll defend you for free. Deep pockets problem solved.
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