Basketball Recruiting: will this year's success have an impact?
Like many on the board, I am waiting for tomorrow's game with Oklahoma State. While waiting, one thing I am interested in is the potential impact this season has on recruiting.
It has been said by many that Michigan is a tier 2 basketball school, and that it will never compete on the level of North Carolina, Kentucky, Duke, UCLA, Louisville, Villanova. I'd like to know: why not? I understand that there is a history at those schools. But why not build a new history here? There was an article I read about the high quality of Michigan's strength and conditioning program for basketball. Camp Sanderson has made a difference. Beilein also has received significant national praise for his coaching acumen. Does this matter at all?
It has been said that Beilein will never have real recruiting success until he "gets his hands dirty." Is it absolutely necessary to be corrupt and to pay players off in order to attract the best players?
It has been said that one and done guys want to play a different style of ball, and that Beilein's schemes are too boring, too cerebral, too difficult.
It has been said that Beilein has no connection with high school coaches in Detroit and Chicago, areas with significant amounts of talent. That AAU and Club coaches and HS coaches steer kids away from Michigan. Is this true? Can this be changed?
Let's look at several players.
- Brian Bowen, 5 star forward out of Saginaw, best player in Michigan in 2017, #15 in country, considering MSU, 'Zona, UCLA. He eliminated Michigan from consideration.
- Mohamed Bamba, 5 star center out of Harlem, 7'1", #3 player in the country in 2017, considering Duke, Kentucky, Michigan. Widely thought to be interested only in KY and Duke, a strong possibility of a one and done.
- Romeo Langford, 5 star guard out of Indiana, #3 in 2018, considering Duke, KU, NC, KY, IN, Louisville, Purdue, UCLA. Not a Michigan target at all.
- Ayo Dosunmu, 4 star PG out of Chicago, top 50 in 2018, considering Illinois, NW, among others, not looking at Michigan.
All of these guys are in Michigan's footprint. Adding a couple of them could make a huge difference. Right now, that doesn't seem to be in the cards.
(I won't look at 2019 because Michigan doesn't put offers out that early. There are two 5 star guys from Michigan . . . . Weems and Armstrong.)
Others have done the research, but it has been suggested that to win the tourney, it is almost a necessity to have a couple NBA caliber kids on your team. It doesn't seem Michigan is quite there yet. Will this year's success cause a couple high level kids to take another look at Michigan? Or is that just wishful thinking that ain't gonna happen?
Was Bill Frieder considered operating dirty? Because if not, then I'd be happy to have recruits, the types he had....
He was pretty shady. Bo wasn't comfortable with him and after taking over as AD, ordered him to clean up his act. In response, Frieder began looking for a new job and found one at Arizona State.
Yes, Bo thought Bill was dirty. Did we ever get into any NCAA trouble no, so if he was dirty, he knew how to avoid NCAA trouble. Fischer got caught cause we happened to get involved with someone that the FBI was investigating and wasn't skilled at having a larger degree of seperation from him. Many other dirty coaches know how to keep away from direct connections, or their dirty money is not related to any serious criminal activity. Same with SEC in football, make sure your bagman are loyal and not involved in any criminal activity, NCAA won't do anything in those situations cause its to hard to prove.
I think it's more that the NCAA can't do anything. It can't compel people to testify.
Yes, Bo thought Bill was dirty. Did we ever get into any NCAA trouble no, so if he was dirty, he knew how to avoid NCAA trouble. Fischer got caught cause we happened to get involved with someone that the FBI was investigating and wasn't skilled at having a larger degree of seperation from him. Many other dirty coaches know how to keep away from direct connections, or their dirty money is not related to any serious criminal activity. Same with SEC in football, make sure your bagman are loyal and not involved in any criminal activity, NCAA won't do anything in those situations cause its to hard to prove.
There were lots of rumors around the basketball program in those days.
Bo couldn't stand cheaters, and never liked Frieder.
Maybe no connection, but Frieder was said to be a card-counter who wasn't allowed in Vegas casinos.
I was here when Frieder was here, and it wasn't a huge secret that the team was pretty undisciplined and wild. I talked at length about this with someone on the women's bball team.
I don't know how much money passed hands, but I think both with Frieder, and also with Fisher, there was a lot of wiggle room. That's how someone like Ed Martin could operate. I think that the coaches could halfway legitimately say "they didn't know" or "they weren't aware" about different things that were happening. The reality is that they didn't want to know, or didn't investigate too closely. This is exactly the definition of how bagmen operate. Money is given to players, but you keep knowledge and involvement away from the coaches. You want "plausible deniability."
I was here for the Tarpley years, too, and there were definitely...rumors. I remember those guys driving some pretty nice cars.
March 16th, 2017 at 11:50 AM ^
One and done's don't want to go to a school that's actually going to be difficult. They want to make the schooling part of their one year as easy as possible. Belein isn't the type of coach who's going to create fake classes or call a professor to give someone a grade they don't deserve. We won't get the kind of player who doesn't also want to "play school" at least a little.
Football is a bit different because of how few one and dones are. It's more likely a three and done, and it's possible to get a degree in that time if you wanted.
March 16th, 2017 at 11:58 AM ^
March 16th, 2017 at 12:07 PM ^
*unless you are Maurice Clarett.
March 16th, 2017 at 12:12 PM ^
March 16th, 2017 at 12:05 PM ^
What on earth are you talking about?
You think Coach K is putting all his one and dones in fake classes at Duke? Get real.
People need to stop making excuses as to why Michigan can't get 5 star talent. They can, Beilein just chooses not to.
March 16th, 2017 at 12:31 PM ^
Beilein suggest otherwise. He does go after them, just not successfully. A strong theory as to why we're not getting them is that they're getting better "offers" from other schools. Do you want Beilein to start playing that game? I sure don't.
As for your question about Duke one and dones, who knows what they're required to do. Unless you know someone close to the program there, I wouldn't assume anything.
You're a flat earther aren't you.
March 17th, 2017 at 12:44 AM ^
are a short-sighted moronic troll. go away!
March 16th, 2017 at 12:14 PM ^
March 16th, 2017 at 12:20 PM ^
March 16th, 2017 at 12:39 PM ^
at UNC. You do realize that they have been in the news a ton for their multi-decade "fake classes" scandal...
Now, the NCAA will be sure to put the wood to Arkansas State for this, but to say that the UNC basketball players are facing rigorous academic challenges is comical.
March 16th, 2017 at 12:59 PM ^
March 16th, 2017 at 12:47 PM ^
You must have missed that story on UNC academic fraud:
:Chapel Hill, North Carolina (CNN)For 18 years, thousands of students at the prestigious University of North Carolina took fake "paper classes," and advisers funneled athletes into the program to keep them eligible, according to a scathing independent report released Wednesday.
March 16th, 2017 at 12:47 PM ^
You forgot the /s
Your comment about UNC and academics made me laugh out loud.
Thank you for the chuckle!
March 16th, 2017 at 11:52 AM ^
March 16th, 2017 at 11:52 AM ^
March 16th, 2017 at 11:55 AM ^
TL;DR
LOL NO
March 16th, 2017 at 11:55 AM ^
The honest answer: who really knows?
I would like to remind folks that our current top NBA prospect (Wilson, although Wagner gets votes) was a 3* recruit that red-shirted. Yup. Red-shirted. And he's still developing. I'm fine with taking developmental players that have a high ceiling. Not all pan out. Many do, but patience and coaching are needed. We just don't have a lot of patience around these parts.
March 16th, 2017 at 12:35 PM ^
What service had him as a 3 star? On 247 he was a 4 star and the 122nd ranked player in the country.
March 16th, 2017 at 11:56 AM ^
Short answer; not really.
We still don't pay kids.
Look at Cal. They stink. Have stunk forever basically. Got Brown and Rabb. Cal is a Jordan school as well so it isnt an AAU driven thing.
March 16th, 2017 at 11:56 AM ^
March 16th, 2017 at 11:57 AM ^
The top players have NBA dreams and if we continue to pump out NBA players with the occassional Slam Dunk champion, it will resonate. The problem Beilein had was that his guys were so damn good in such a short timeframe, that he didn't have the depth needed to bridge the gap of the last few seasons. An extra year out of GRIII, McGary and Stauskas may have been enough for us to reload the roster. Instead of losing to EMU and NJIT, we probably win those games by 20+ with that trio still on the roster with a still healthy Levert.
March 16th, 2017 at 11:57 AM ^
Did making the national title game and Elite 8 in back to back years have an impact? Beilein recruits who he recruits, that doesn't include 5 stars and one and dones. I don't understand why, but we have to live with it unfortunately.
March 16th, 2017 at 12:00 PM ^
He stays away because it takes a special person to volunteer to do a job everyone else is getting paid to do.
March 16th, 2017 at 12:05 PM ^
March 16th, 2017 at 12:12 PM ^
Stauskas, BRUNDIDGE!, walton, VOGRICH, im sure I'm forgetting some, but all were top 100 players
March 17th, 2017 at 12:49 AM ^
harris, walton, irvin, mcgary, griii, wagner...
March 16th, 2017 at 12:10 PM ^
Mcgary and GRIII were both five stars IIRC. And Walton and Irvin were damn close
March 16th, 2017 at 12:20 PM ^
So was Kam (the fact that he ddin't work out notwithstanding).
March 16th, 2017 at 12:49 PM ^
That's good enough for me. Hopefully he wrecks the Horizon League next year.
"that doesn't include 5 stars"
Except, you know, the plethora of 5 stars that he has recruited in the last 5 cycles. Leaf, Battle, Langford, Brown, McGary, Thornton, Bamba, etc.
"that doesn't include 5 stars"
Except, you know, the plethora of 5 stars that he has recruited in the last 5 cycles. Leaf, Battle, Langford, Brown, McGary, Thornton, Bamba, etc.
March 16th, 2017 at 11:58 AM ^
If making the title game and an elite 8 didn't move the needle, then nothing we do this year will either short of winning it all
March 16th, 2017 at 11:58 AM ^
March 16th, 2017 at 12:40 PM ^
Yes, Beilein is getting up there at 64. But here are the ages of some of the top coaches in the country. Their age isn't hindering their ability to get top talent.
Roy Williams - 66
Coach K - 70(!)
Jim Boeheim - 72
Rick Pitino - 64
Bob Huggins - 63
So has Beilein - he started at WVU in 2002.