This Week's Obsession: If Harbaugh Had A
UPDATED: Now with 100% more Yang.
(via Toledo Blade)
The Question:
Inspired by A.J. Williams, which former under- or badly utilized player would you have loved to see play for Harbaugh?
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The Responses:
Brian: For the record, this was my rundown on MGoRadio:
In this world he's probably still #19. |
1. Denard/Devin
Jim Harbaugh coming in in 2011 and being handed Denard Robinson would have been incredibly fascinating, and may have propelled Denard to unmatchable heights as a runner. Gardner would have been lethal.
2. Mike Hart
Do I hear 3000 yard season?
3. Gabe Watson
Watson gets a bad rap. He was first team All Big Ten twice and a mid-round pick in the NFL draft. But if there was one guy who could have been a demon if he was in a bit more shape and a bit more motivated, it was him.
4. BJ Askew
A hybrid FB/RB who could have been a really cool secret weapon.
5. AJ Williams
The gimmicky top five was in honor of Williams so I had to put him on there. The turnaround this year has been great.
For TWO I'll add a couple more names: remember that game Alain Kashama had in the Citrus Bowl against Florida? Yeah, that's another guy for the pile of defensive players who might have been yelled into awesomeness under Harbaugh. Also: Devin Funchess. Does he become a great blocker? Does he become at least a great blocker for a WR? What does it look like to have Devin Funchess running routes downfield against one on one coverage with full motivation? I bet it looks pretty amazing.
[After the jump: so many wonderful toys]
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Ace: My somewhat oddball list for the radio show:
1. Mike Hart
2. Tate Forcier
3. Will Campbell
4. Aaron Shea
5. Marques Slocum
Brian and I caught some flak for leaving this guy off our respective lists on Monday: Drew Henson. The people are absolutely right in this case. Henson would've been the most talented quarterback Jim Harbaugh had to work with until Andrew Luck and his skill set would've been ideal in a Harbaugh offense; he had the arm strength, accuracy, and mobility Harbaugh covets in his quarterbacks. The difference between Henson working within the confines of Lloydball and playing for Harbaugh—it's a sick kind of fun to consider.
Harbaugh also would've been so deeply offended by the idea of Henson leaving early to pursue a career in baseball—a fine sport, sure, but football is life—that I fully believe he would've been able to convince Henson to resist George Steinbrenner's overtures until he'd delivered a Heisman Trophy to Ann Arbor. I want to live in the alternate universe that gives us Senior Henson coached by Jim Harbaugh; it probably ends with Henson as the #1 overall pick in the NFL Draft.
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David: This is a question that has seemingly endless possibilities. Brian's Devin/Denard pick, on the radio, is obviously tough to beat. My #1 that I wrote down on Monday night -and was rather confident about- was also taken by Brian (which is maybe why I work for him?) was BJ Askew. So, I'll have to go with #2 on my list: Kevin Koger.
Kevin Koger came to Michigan as a fringe Top 100 player and a Top 5 TE. He was also a Michigan head-to-head recruiting victory of Ohio State, coming out of Toledo. He also came to Michigan and probably the worst time to be utilized as a tight end: the very beginning of Rich Rod's spread offense. In all three National Signing Days that Rich Rod was in Ann Arbor for, he signed zero other tight ends. There was a lot of talk that Koger would end up flipping to DE, but he ever did.
Despite coming in with solid size and good speed, Koger finished his college career with only 59 catches -23 of them coming in 2011, in a more TE friendly offense-, 756 yards, and 9 TDs. He did save arguably his best game -4 catches for 40 yards and a TD- for his Senior Day against Ohio State in 2011.
If you gave Koger four years under Harbaugh instead of three Rodriguez spread-based years and a fusion-cuisine year of Borges, I have to wonder if he'd be playing on Sundays, now, instead of already into his coaching career.
Regardless, he still has one of the better Twitter handles I've come across: @KogerNotKroger
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Seth: In Endzone/Brandon's Lasting Lessons there's a short story about how Harbaugh called Bo after taking the job at San Diego. Bo's questions: Do you have a tight end who can stick his hand in the dirt? Do you have a fullback? Harbaugh said yes, and Bo said you'll do fine.
Desimone. |
You can read that as Bo was an i-form zealot, or you can believe Bo knew Jim well enough to know what a Harbaughffense needs. Whereas a spread offense thrives on widening the gaps defenders have to cover, the Power offense's jam is carving out new ones.
It's telling that Harbaugh took one look at his new Michigan personnel and identified Joe Kerridge as his captain. The uber-Kerridge remains the only pre-MGoBlog era man to join the ranks of the Blessed Order of St. Kovacs. That man is Kevin Dudley.
Prior to 2003 Chris Perry had the talent to threaten any gap A through E, and the inability to choose the right one, such that in 2002 B.J. Askew in Ace formations was Michigan's most effective personnel. Once Askew moved on, Michigan activated Dudley, who solved the Perry problem: Just follow 32. Perry won the Doak Walker in '03. The following year Mike Hart set a freshman record for rushing yards. They didn't do it alone.
Underutilized is probably a stretch, but Dudley did happen to come to the top of the depth chart at the same time Michigan had the best three-wide personnel in its history (Braylon/Avant/Breaston). He also had Mike DeBord calling his plays. Imagine if Harbaugh had.
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UPDATE:
You there in the peanut gallery.
: Ooh, ooh! What about Ryan Mallett?
What about him?
: Uh … I was asking you guys. Oh, now I have to write complete sentences about this? Goddamnit, Seth.
Heiko: Okay, so I guess Mallett would be intriguing entry into this thought experiment more so for what it would have meant for Michigan rather than what it would have meant for him. As I’m sure most people know, the guy was an uber-recruit who backed up Chad Henne in 2007 but then booked it for Arkansas after Rich Rod failed to make eye contact or something. At Arkansas he sat out 2008, played the next two seasons, and as a PGY-4 he set some records for quarterback stuff and earned himself a spot in the third round.
Like I said, not sure how much Harbaugh would have changed his career path. Maybe he would have been a first-round pick, although the reason he fell to the third round seemed to be due to concerns about his off-the-field shenanigans. Anyway, the biggest difference would have been that he had stayed at Michigan, and that scenario is why I even brought this up: imagine the 2008 Michigan team with a real quarterback. A real quarterback running a real offense.
I know, like, whoa, right?
Even after the mass player exodus (which you could argue would not have happened if Harbaugh had been hired that year and Mallett had stayed), Michigan had talent at a number of offensive positions. Tailback Brandon Minor was establishing himself. Future jump-ball specialist Junior Hemingway was showing promise as a sophomore. And there were guys like Top 100 receiver Greg Mathews and 5-star Kevin Grady on the roster who ended up not reaching their full potential through the transition years. I would bet a dollar those guys would have gone to the NFL had the Harbaughing happened after Carr’s retirement.
I’m getting off topic now (goddamnit, Seth), but in this fanciful alternate universe we’d have been bitching about how Michigan QB Andrew Luck got snubbed for the Heisman over the last couple years instead of trying to out-posture the folks over in East Lansing.
At this point I don’t know which storyline I’d prefer to have lived through, but I’ll have a better idea after the game on Saturday.
October 14th, 2015 at 1:13 PM ^
But since Brady was already taken, how about Harbaugh? I'll leave my list to players from the RichRod and beyond era
On offense:
Brandon Minor;
David Molk
Devin Gardner
Thomas Rawls
On defense:
Mike Martin
Brandon Graham
Jordan Kovaks
October 14th, 2015 at 1:13 PM ^
Classic double post
October 14th, 2015 at 1:14 PM ^
Jarrod Bunch or Chris Floyd.
October 14th, 2015 at 1:16 PM ^
Would have been something to see Harbaugh coached by himself. Oh the possibilities...
October 14th, 2015 at 1:25 PM ^
"If I had a million Harbaughs
(If I had a million Harbaughs)
I would never lose a game..."
October 14th, 2015 at 3:37 PM ^
October 14th, 2015 at 1:20 PM ^
Michael Ferns. Both due to need next yr and from his HS on and off the field stories was a Harbaugh man.
If he could have only stuck around for 2 more months.
As others have stated, Forcier and Henson were Harbaugh QB types - would have kept Tate's head straight ...or Tate would have been gone within 6 months I suppose.
Devin G too.
October 14th, 2015 at 1:19 PM ^
My immediate thought is Tim Massaquoi.
October 14th, 2015 at 1:24 PM ^
I was 50/50 between him and Koger, haha
October 14th, 2015 at 1:19 PM ^
Stevie Brown
October 14th, 2015 at 1:20 PM ^
RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE
October 14th, 2015 at 1:38 PM ^
He was beast. Would have absolutely loved to see him under a Harbaugh offense/offensive line.
October 14th, 2015 at 2:17 PM ^
October 14th, 2015 at 1:23 PM ^
October 14th, 2015 at 1:23 PM ^
I may just be getting greedy here, but Tim as the primary back in a Harbaugh offense would be sick.
October 14th, 2015 at 1:25 PM ^
He would have developed more than he did.
October 14th, 2015 at 1:43 PM ^
October 14th, 2015 at 1:53 PM ^
Ryan would have played Ojemudia's position, didn't he play something similar to begin his career?
From the games it seems he has a knack for getting to the quarterback and making plays in the backfield with his hand on the ground.
I think the last coaching staff probably put him in the middle since best players play but I always thought he was a terror especially with his JMFR hair flow days.
October 14th, 2015 at 3:32 PM ^
I feel like we got nearly Ryan's ceiling out of him. It's not like Mattison was chopped liver as a DC or LB coach. I think his senior year move to MLB was a bit disappointing, but I'm not sure Harbaugh/Durkin would have done anything differently, especially after Morgan got injured. I feel like last year's plan got borked early by Peppers getting hurt and Countess not being even close to being able to press cover receivers.
October 14th, 2015 at 1:27 PM ^
named the captains and not the players voting?
October 14th, 2015 at 1:29 PM ^
Fitz Toussaint
October 14th, 2015 at 1:30 PM ^
I love this question. For my answer, I would avoid the Defensive players because it is hard to say how much of the current resurgance is due to Harbaugh and how much is just the right mix of Mattison focusing on one position, Durkin having modern elements, and years of player recruiting and development from Hoke.
For offensive players, I like Henson, Dudley, and Koger a lot. All great thoughts. Here are my others:
- Any RB over the last 10 years. Mike Cox became a fringe NFL player after being glued to the bench. Rawls is now a fantasy sleeper after a 170 yard game. Brandon Minor and Carlos Brown may have found consistency.
- Funchess - I know he was mentioned, but the question is whether Harbaugh sees him as a WR or thinks he can keep him at TE in some way.
- Taylor Lewan - As much as he was loved during his career, he never had the impact or consistency of Long, Jansen, etc. What could have have been under Harbaugh without the ever-changing systems around him?
- Dileo, Roundtree, Odoms, Gallon - Imagine if these guys, who all had solid careers already, actually played in an offense that threw free yards on quick passes.
- Tate - I think this is a more interesting player than Denard. I have no idea what Harbaugh would have done with Denard, but he would have loved Tate's mix of running and passing.
October 14th, 2015 at 1:30 PM ^
I'm not sure how Kevin Grady didn't get mentioned in the OP. I always liked Askew more than I liked Perry, so I'm glad that he made it to the list.
October 14th, 2015 at 1:32 PM ^
Tom Harmon. He probably would have won two Heismans if Harbaugh was his coach.
October 14th, 2015 at 1:34 PM ^
Brandon Minor would've became a monster under Harbaugh. Would've liked to see what he could've done with Funchess out of different sets.
October 14th, 2015 at 1:35 PM ^
If only because we all know that Harbaugh would've coached him up to PITCH THE DANG BALL!!!!
October 14th, 2015 at 3:05 PM ^
Can you imagine the Harbaugh freakout gifs that would have come from that game? Worst officiating ever.
October 14th, 2015 at 1:37 PM ^
I think the takeaway is that it would have been awesome if Harbaugh was hired in 2011. Even in 2007, there might not have been much to work with, assuming that Mallett, Manningham, Arrington, etc. would have moved on anyway. But in 2011 there were a lot of pieces, including Gardner, Robinson, Koger, and others.
Then again, some of this turnaround can be attributed to Harbaugh's NFL connections (Drevno, Greg Jackson, Mike Zordich, etc.), some of whom might not have been available or wanting to work with Harbaugh in 2011. It might be a little different story if Harbaugh's assistants were all career college guys rather than experienced NFL players/coaches.
October 14th, 2015 at 1:50 PM ^
Drevno was a USD/Stanford guy first, was he not? Either way, Harbaugh put together a pretty ass-kicking staff at all his stops. I think he would have walked into a good situation in 2011 as well and done quite well too, so I definitely agree with you that the ideal situation was probably if Harbaugh comes to UM in 2011. The caveat is of course, is Harbaugh more likely to stay long term now than if he would have come in 2011. Is he less likely to go to the NFL now than if he never took a shot at it in 2011?
October 14th, 2015 at 1:40 PM ^
I believe top 2 would have to be Tate and Gardner. Tate had off the field issues, but he was a talented QB.
Gardner never had an offensive coach like Harbaugh, and his supporting cast was not what it should have been for him to be successful.
For the same reason as Gardner - Funchess.
I do not agree with Denard, Hart, or Campbell.
October 14th, 2015 at 1:47 PM ^
either have won the Heisman or cracked with Harbaugh as coach.
October 14th, 2015 at 1:45 PM ^
October 14th, 2015 at 1:50 PM ^
October 14th, 2015 at 1:52 PM ^
Sam McGuffie because he hasn't been mentioned yet.
But really Devin Gardner.
October 14th, 2015 at 1:52 PM ^
Jon Ritchie
Donovan Warren
Morgan Trent
Mike Martin
Matt Gutierrez
John Vaughn
October 14th, 2015 at 1:55 PM ^
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October 14th, 2015 at 1:55 PM ^
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
October 14th, 2015 at 2:06 PM ^
Is there anyone who wouldn't be a good fit at this point? I feel like they are getting such good results with such a wide array of players already.
October 14th, 2015 at 2:07 PM ^
Devin/Denard. Definitely. But especially Devin Gardner. Wish this was his 5th year instead of last year.
Devin Funchess (aka the other Devin)
Tate Forcier (not sure if he'd have lasted with is attitude, but if anyone could have straightened him out . . .)
Brandon Graham. He was a monster, and I guess not exactly "underused," but in a fully functioning non-3-3-5 defense . . . wowza.
Steven Threet? Um . . . yeah, he didn't function well in the spread option, but methinks he could have been good under Harbaugh.
October 14th, 2015 at 2:09 PM ^
Bob Perryman
October 14th, 2015 at 2:13 PM ^
...leroy hoard. toby gerhardt before there was toby gerhardt.
October 14th, 2015 at 2:13 PM ^
October 14th, 2015 at 2:21 PM ^
For me the answer is Devin Gardner and it's not a particularly close debate. Other gents like Mike Hart, Brandon Graham, Kroger, etc. would very well have done better under the Harbaugh staff but it's not like their talents were completely squandered. (Koger might be playing on Sundays, yes, but still acquitted himself well given his opportunities.). But Gardner would've been replicating his 2013 ND and 2013 Ohio State performances all season long. If Devin ever sues Hoke and Borges for lost NFL paychecks stemming from their criminal misuse of his skill set.... for my money, he has a not entirely insane case to make.
October 14th, 2015 at 10:06 PM ^
October 14th, 2015 at 2:24 PM ^
and it is not even close.
October 14th, 2015 at 2:24 PM ^
I'm struggling to understand how Mike Hart made two different lists when he is Michigan's all-time rushing leader as a running back. Maybe he could have been even better with Harbaugh, but he was pretty damn good and was used well in the offense.
October 14th, 2015 at 2:31 PM ^
Mine is Gardner. Guy carried himself like a true Michigan Man despite the raw deal he got here, would've been nice to see him get some real coaching.
October 14th, 2015 at 2:47 PM ^
Dudley for me. I remember when carr wouldnt give him a touch inside the one. All that guy wanted is to try for a touchdown. Harbaugh would have given him that, he had earned it.
October 14th, 2015 at 2:49 PM ^
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