Pipkins To Transfer, Says He Was Pressured To Sign Medical Hardship Papers
Pipkins got on the field late in the opener last year [Bryan Fuller]
Ondre Pipkins will attempt to use his last year(s) of eligibility elsewhere and he is not happy about it:
"I feel I'm healthy and ready to play," said Pipkins, who played last season after he was cleared to return from a torn knee ligament. "I don't want to sign the form. I wanted to play for my seniors and for the team. Coach Harbaugh said, 'I recommend you take the medical.'"
Pipkins said he felt constant pressure to retire. …
Harbaugh told him that he wanted "to make sure you graduate from Michigan" and that the coach did not plan to invite him to fall camp due in part to medical concerns. The lineman added that Harbaugh told him that he did not believe he would be drafted into the NFL for medical reasons.
"I feel bad I wasn't able to complete this journey with my classmates," Pipkins told ESPN. "I feel I am healthy and without pain. I believe Michigan wanted to free up the scholarship. I felt I was practicing well and could compete at a high level at the nose tackle and tackle positions."
First off, good for Pipkins for saying something about it—and apparently painting Harbaugh in a somewhat sympathetic light.
But this is a strange situation for a lot of reasons. I can't really figure out why Harbaugh would want to run Pipkins out of town:
- He was scheduled to be a senior and Michigan is at 85 scholarships right now, with the three former walk-ons (Kerridge, Glasgow, Glasgow) we think will get scholarships in 2015 accounted for.
- Pipkins thus doesn't impact the numbers in the 2016 class; the only reason he'd need to go this year is if Michigan was going to bring in yet more transfers.
- ND DE transfer Jhonathan Williams was just told no by Michigan.
- I'm sure at least one other player has a very legit medical hardship-inducing injury they haven't announced yet.
There were some rumors Michigan was looking at fifth year wide receivers that haven't come to fruition as of yet, but none of this really makes sense. Michigan seems to have room for him, and the move would appear to be a redshirt (that he should have gotten as a freshman /shakes fist at Hoke) so that he can be a fifth year somewhere else after getting his degree. That is unless he actually shouldn't play football.
Pipkins asserts in the article that Michigan wanted the scholarship… but for what?
All that would be true if we didn't have three guys the program is giving a scholarship to out of the goodness of their hearts. These walk ons may have earned their scholarships through hard work and all that, but if it came down to us trying to grab a 5th year transfer I have no doubt Harbaugh would pull one of their scholarships. He'd do that before forcing a kid out if the kid was honestly healthy enough to play.
you're pouting because you got negged before so you are going to say anything to show your superiority over the other board members.
Go away.
You could always give his scholaship to one of the 3 well deserving walk on starters. They earned it but currently seem to be forced to pay this year with the scholarship #s. So yes there is a benefit.
No doctor has cleared Dean to play. All James Andrews said was that he needs more re-hab and "should" be able resume football activities in the summer. Thats not a medical clearance.He has to sit out a year so Auburn will take a chance I guess and see if he can get cleared after re-habbing.
If it becomes a pattern, I will certainly revisit my impressions, but judging this particular incident by itself, there doesn't appear to be any malintent behind the decision.
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
Brian, this is why (IMO) you are the best at what you do. ESPN puts out an article not-so-subtly implicating Michigan in nefarious practices Re: scholarship count. Within 30 minutes Brian posts an article debunking the comparison to St. Saban Memorial in Tuscaloosa.
I respect him for doing this as well, but only because I don't feel he has too much of a homer streak. He doesn't lack the ability to be critical about Michigan athletics, so if he objects to some mud slinging, we can be sure that he's not just trying to help the department save face.
I always liked Pipkins. Hopefully this is less slimy that it sounds
Like someone who doesn't want his dream to die. I can't blame him there. It's a shame that his career hasn't taken the path we all hoped for, but these things happen.
For his sake, I hope he either finds peace with life after football, or happens to know his body and the level of pain he can play with better than anybody else and is able to continue/finish his playing days somewhere he is happy with.
Pipkins is handling himself very well here. He's not getting his way and he's saying something about it, but he's not doing anything to be ashamed of.
That we know of.
I have no idea how you can reach this conclusion when we have 1/10th of the available information.
There is no denying that Ondre wants to compete and finish out his time at Michigan. if the coaches have been advised by medical staff that it is highly possible that Ondre suffers another injury that would keep him from completing the season then it is in everyone's best interest to step back, as hard as that may be. Sometimes pressuring for medical reasons is just that and nothing more.
Bottom line, this is terrible timing regardless of whether its slimy on Michigan's part, or whining on Pipkins part.
All I can say is that I'm anxious for all the information to come out soon so people will stop creating stories from this. Yes, stories. Just like the stories we come up with when OSU and Alabama do this and WE don't have complete information.
information on this case come out, let alone "all the information". The only thing that would clear up the situation is detailed information about his medical condition from the team physicians. And that's considered personal and private data that will not be disclosed. And the coaches really can't say any more without disclosing this information either. Complete information is not always possible.
This would be a lot worse IMO if this was a guy Harbaugh recruited. AFAIC, Harbaugh made no commitment to Pipkins and if he thinks that scholarship can be better used to help the team, then it is what it is.
I disagree. The contract s between the school and the player. The coach just happens to be the surrent custodian of the school's responsibility. It makes no difference whatever who recruited the guy, the school has an obligation to consider the interests of the student first and foremost. So long as he didn't violate any rules, you can't kick him off the team even if you didn't recruit him, unless that is in his own best interests. The best interests of the team can't be helped by screwing over the members of the team.
He got his degree from Michigan (I believe), so IMO the school fulfilled its obligation to Pipkins. What happens in regards to his 5th year of football is up to the football staff, and Harbaugh isn't breaking any promise to Pipkins and his family as he would have if this were his own recruit. Just how I see things.
He never redshirted so no he didnt get his 4 years and would not have his degree if he left now.
I think that's a bullshit argument. If the kids are expected to commit to the school regardless of coach, the school should be committed to the kids regardless of coach. The coach, being the representative for the school, needs to uphold that.
Since when are kids expected to be committed to the school regardless of the coach? I'm pretty sure no one berates the kids for leaving school after a coaching change (as was the case with Bosch) or decomitting during the recruiting process when the coach recruiting them gets fired.
This is a complete non sequitur. Students don't have to stay at a school if they don't want to. Your earlier argument was about the obligations of a coach, and was incorrect (coaches are employees of the university and legally obligated to consider the interests of the student). Student obligations are entirely different, and not relevant to the discussion.
Big difference.
I don't know enough about his health to make a definitive statement one way or the other. But this does potentially help the 2016 scholarship situation if we use it to backdate early enrollees.
Not a good look for UM in my opinion and I've got a feeling this is only the beginning.
I don't think we are concerned with the 25 vs 28 limit. I think the scholarship concern is the 85 cap. Being able to backdate some doesn't help with the 85 number, which is the one UM is over/will be pushing up against in 2016.
If they take another commit who EE, that it could be counted to the 2015 class (and there I would believe... Could make Pipkins's point)... But again, not likely...
I don't think Harbaugh has ever made a bad or sketchy move in his career. Harbaugh doesn't force kids out, and he doesn't oversign. This has to be 100% on Pipkins.
... got some bad news for you.
I really hope that Harbaugh was more or less telling him, we don't think you can play anymore, you most likley won't see the field much or at all, you won't be able to make the NFL, so instead of spending countless time and effort practicing when you won't play, focus on your studies. I just can't see why he would push out a soon to be senior when we aren't over the scholarship limit.
This thread is already full of win.
Harbaugh cares about him is the best ya'll can do.?
First, I'm sure none of you were of that opinion when Dean transferred from OSU. It was all "Urban's a dirty liar who oversigns" despite the decision being made from OSU's medical stafff and NOT Urban AND being made a month before signing day negating any he's cutting him for oversigning purposes BS. That part only flies if the decision was made AFTER signing day and even then only if made up.
Second, Brian seems to assert that pressuring Pipkins to leave doesn't make sense becuase they don't need the scholly. How the hell does he know? Look, I know he's much more in tune with Michigan athletics than definitly me and probaby most of you but there is no way he can assert this for sure. NO ONE knows their roster and possible attrition or future roster plans better than the head coach. It might make perfect sense that he pressured him to sign the medical opening up the scholly because he had someone to he wnated to bring in.
There will be some that post here that they despise this and they don't want to be a part of it. I applaud you even if I think it is a bit naive to assume that it isn't being done at most places even your beloved UM.
But the rationalizations I've seen in the first 8 or so posts are already hilarious. Not because they maybe incorrect necessarily just that if this is any other coach, especially Urban, the responses are hysterically different. And yeah I'm ready for the ton of negs coming my way but I don't think I'm wrong.
I don't buy the timing implication that it would be okay to cut him before signing day, but not after. If you're cutting someone to make room for someone else, why should it matter whether the new person is officially in the fold or not.
If cutting for scholly reasons only the timing wouldn't matter. It would be wrong.
My point was that if Dean was cut for oversigning as many have claimed he wouldn't have been declared ineligible till after signing day when OSU would know how many to get rid of.
The actual timeline goes......Dean enrolls in January. Med staff checks him out and determines he can't/shouldn't play and won't clear him. Keep in mind Dean was like the 2nd commit in that class and one of the highest rated. Also, the OSU coaching staff stuck with him through TWO knee injuries prior to all of this (Urban didn't, you know, stop all communication with the recruit.....)
Signing day is in February and Urban knows that this kid will never play a down for OSU as he wasnt cleared. That means Dean will either be on medical with his scholly upheld for his time at OSU or he tries to go elsewhere to get cleared so he can play. He chose option 2 as we know.
Either way, that scholly is freed up. As you may recall as a fan of UM, Urban went hard after Damon Arnette (a UM target) in the last month and landed him as a replacement for Dean (both were CB's).
So for this to be nefarious, OSU would have had to stuck by a kid with 2 previous injuries instead of cutting cord then,accepting his enrollment, then have its med staff declare the kid ineligible at behest of the coaches all so they can replace him with a lower rated recruit that they were in no way guaranteed to sign come NSD.
Does that make sense to you? It doesn't to me.
get off Urban's dick
Telling an OSU fan to get off Urban's dick when the amount of Harbaugh fanatacism on this site is hitting an all time high... yeah... He's the one on somebody's dick....
Let's not get mad when rivals can make valid points that we can counter in a reasonable fashion k?
You're mixing the particulars of the OSU case into what was supposed to be a general statement. If a kid is cut (that is let go simply because he wasn't good enough at football, regardless of the official reason) so to make room to add another kid, it shouldn't matter that timing of that occuring. I DID NOT SAY that OSU cut the kid, nor did I say that the medical was inappropriate. You seem to be defending against assertations that weren't made.
Oh yea, and get off Urban's dick.
Going back and reading it I see what you are saying. It seemed like you were saying that the timing shouldn't matter because OSU did cut the kid.
I don't want to be the guy who reads something that wasn't there so when you point it out I will agree. God knows I've had enough responses to my posts asserting things I never said or implied. So my bad.
But I think that we are in agreement that straight cutting a kid is bad regardless.
I will ignore your last sentence.
Now I feel really bad that I added that last line.
I have a good sense of humor. haha
I think the idea mostly rests on the thought that the kid they "replaced" Dean with was rated substantially lower by recruiting services.
Basically Dean was recruited, enrolled early, OSU looked at his knee upon his arrival, saw it was all messed up, medical'd Dean, and hastilly recruited a new, lower rated, kid to fill the spot.
Logic says OSU wouldn't cut Dean to make room for a worse player unless they had a reason to do so. The reason OSU would want to say is Dean is actually hurt and unable to play at all.
The real reason is probably Dean is capable of playing, but at a 2 star level now, not at the 4 star level he was recruited as, so OSU replaced his spot with a 3 star. Auburn scooping him up is pretty low risk, they have the room for him now, he was once a 4 star, and if he isn't as good as advertised, they can medical him no harm no foul after saying they gave him a chance. (Man, Dean is basically a free cog in the NCAA money machine, but that's a post for a different day)
Now, the possibility (probablilty?) above exists especially if Dean is healthy enough to still play. My bet is Dean can still play, but not at the level OSU presumed when they recruited him initially (and not at the level of the kid they replaced him with) so the medicaling of Dean and recruitment of Armette was based on the fact Dean wasn't as good as they hoped, not because they were oversigned.
That's a shitty thing to do to Dean (and based on Ace's post earlier this week, something Harbaugh has a semi-history of doing too) but it's not oversigning, it's more [some other morally bankrupt concept I can't think of a good word for].
What happened with Pipkins, I have no idea.
I'm bothering to say this because I assume you'll be negged just for being an OSU fan.
Not my internet points?! But seriously though, thank you, and I hope it provides some clarity on the Dean situation.
My understanding is that Brian gives you a new car if you hit 20,000. At least I hope that's true, because I've budgeted as if it is.
Well in that case I better start hitting up those posbang threads with some major .gif whoring.
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
Hmph. Maybe my new car got lost in the mail. Three times.
I well written reasoned response, but hit much broader point than I made. My only point was cutting (getting rid of them because they are not good enough at football) someone the day before NSD is not really different than cutting someone after. I didn't say that someone was actually cut in OSUs case, nor did I comment on whether the circumstances in OSUs case were (or were not) appropriate.
Comments