Greg McElroy: “All inidications are pointing towards Meyer being reinstated.”

Submitted by The Baughz on

I apologize for another Urban post. I am exhausted of them myself, but felt this was semi board worthy.

I was listening to ESPNU radio on siriusxm this morning and McElroy, who has stated several times since this news broke that he felt Meyer has no chance of coming back, is suddenly changing his tune.

He said he spent all day yesterday talking to multiple people who are plugged into this situation and now feels pretty confident in Urban returning. I felt this was a pretty big deal since McElroy felt strongly about Urban never returning to OSU. He did not mention any of his sources, but cited the fact that they all felt Urban followed correct protocol in reporting the incident and there’s no justification found to fire him.

McElroy isn’t a guy who i would go to for breaking news, but I do feel like he is somewhat plugged in. I’m not going to say we should all believe him and that Urban is definitely coming back, but just thought I’d share this and point out that some national media are starting to change their stance on Urbs returning.

PapabearBlue

August 8th, 2018 at 10:11 AM ^

I'd like to know what firing the guy fixes. Everyone keeps saying, "all they care about is winning." Ok, so you fire the guy, what does that fix? prove That you care about image? It doesn't even prove that you stand against DV, just that you care that you look like you care about DV. Is the guy gonna stop beating his wife? Almost certainly not, in fact, I'd argue that it might even make it worse.

What does it fix? And, why is it OSU's job to fix a private situation between a man and his wife. This isn't even OSU's business. This is between the man, his wife, and the police.

PapabearBlue

August 8th, 2018 at 10:24 AM ^

I'm not sure I know all the details of the PSU story but if I understand them correctly then I would argue that there is a HUGE difference between actively ignoring that a man you employ is using your employment to rape children - and - reporting that a guy and his wife were ipotentially nvolved in DV but the police never charging him with anything so you continue to employ him.

I don't think those situations are very similar and I'm sure you don't either.

Bambi

August 8th, 2018 at 11:27 AM ^

Paterno didn't "ignore" it, he reported it to the people above him following proper Title IX protocol. What Urban Meyer may have done in his best case scenario, we know Joe Pa did. 

The outrage over Joe Pa was that he knew it was happening, didn't report it to the police and let Sanudsky continue what he was doing. And obviously rightfully so, that's a scumbag thing to do. That's Meyer's best case scenario right now. He knew what Smith was doing, reported it following Title IX protocol and that's it. Meyer also kept Smith employed during this time and there's a very real chance he didn't report and is just lying to save his ass. So best case scenario Meyer is Joe Pa, worst case he's an even bigger enabler.

Joe Pa let Sandusky use his employment to commit his crimes, Meyer went out of his way to make sure Smith wasn't arrested to let him continue committing his. 

Erik_in_Dayton

August 8th, 2018 at 10:19 AM ^

The argument is that a zero tolerance approach to DV - including zero tolerance for retaining abusers as employees - would have an overall dampening effect on the rate of DV.  Potential abusers would fear for their jobs in a way that they haven't in the very recent past, which would hopefully cause at least some of them to refrain from violence. 

It's not an entirely private issue.  I'm sure you'd agree that a head coach should fire an assistant who is regularly assaulting patrons at local bars.  There isn't much difference between that and DV.

Firing might Zach Smith might not have helped Courtney Smith. I don't know if it would have, but the the stronger argument is what I stated in my first paragraph.  

PapabearBlue

August 8th, 2018 at 10:33 AM ^

I'm actually pretty strongly of the opinion that companies should mind their own fucking business when their employees aren't at work. If you fail to show up and do your job because you got charged with a crime then you get fired for an unexcused absence but otherwise it's none of their fucking business. If your crime is directly related to the task at hand (IE, pedophilia for teachers), then it's also justifiable.

Beyond the obviousness of something like sharing trade secrets, the concept of employers being able to dictate your behavior while they aren't paying you under the guise of "representatives of the company" is absolute bullshit and, imo, a form of wage-slavery/wage-fraud.

Erik_in_Dayton

August 8th, 2018 at 10:45 AM ^

I'm more sympathetic to your position in some instances than you might imagine, but it just isn't realistic.  It's particularly unrealistic in the case of a coach for a major college football program.  A coach doesn't only teach his position players and recruit.  People are going to see him as a representative of the program and the school whether that's fair or not.  If we stick with my example - a guy who gets into bar fights - fans of the team and people in the community would very understandably look to the head coach or AD and say, "Can you please explain to us why you're employing this maniac?" 

Most college head coaches - maybe all of them - claim to stand for something more than winning football games.  It's fair to hold them to their own standard. 

Mr Miggle

August 8th, 2018 at 4:54 PM ^

It's also in their contracts.

The clauses about having to report anything that fall into a broad range of sexual assaults are there for a reason. I think it's safe to say sexual assaults are a bigger problem at universities than most places of employment. The government has taken an interest there too.

If they aren't enforced for your highest paid and most visible employee, how can you enforce them for anyone else?

carolina blue

August 8th, 2018 at 10:45 AM ^

I agree to a point. I am just a grunt engineer at my company. No one knows who I am in regards to who I work for. The same can’t be said for the face of a big time college football program. Standards are different for the different positions, and they should be. The public doesn’t identify me with my employer...but Head football coaches are identified with their universities. Their standards should be different 

mGrowOld

August 8th, 2018 at 10:50 AM ^

Correct if I'm wrong of course but I'm guessing nobody at your current place of work showed up this morning with a gun and forced you to show up.  You went voluntarily cause you wanted to go and in exchange for your time & skills they paid you something.

They have every right to fire you if they find something out and dont like what you're doing on your free time just as you have every right to quit.

IMO OSU will keep Meyer cause they feel pissing off their fan base is worse than pissing of the general public.  But they can do what they want either way.

BoCanHam15

August 8th, 2018 at 11:55 AM ^

Papabear I’m sure at this point you believe everything that inconspicuously drops out of your mouth but here’s one thing that cannot be disputed or questioned.  Zach Smith beat his wife while pregnant.  He was not charged however, she was beaten and the glorious Urban Liar and Shelly talked to them.  So don’t fall under this spell that Urban eventually did the right thing.  When he admitted out of his own mouth that they were a young couple and they need some talking to. Yeah right he knew nothing about Big Earle’s Grandson.  See, people like you ignore facts and spin cycles often to create a sense of normalcy.  If you see someone beating a lady don’t say anything walk past and do nothing, because they’re young.  By the time he reaches his 40’s he’ll just choke the $&()&&!) out of her!  Your thoughts and statements are pathetic.

jmblue

August 8th, 2018 at 10:29 AM ^

You fire the guy to make the point that your institution doesn't tolerate this behavior, and that hopefully this can serve as an example to others.  

The whole "this is just between a man and his wife" thing in this day and age doesn't fly anymore.  There can be a lot of reasons why abusers don't end up in jail.  The legal system isn't foolproof, especially in a college town where the cops may be fans of the team in question.

 

trueblueintexas

August 8th, 2018 at 10:35 AM ^

It's amazing you survived both Jonestown and Waco.

My employer can fire me for any number of things I do outside of work because I am a representative of my company 24/7. That is pretty common. A recent example was the lady who was fired for simply flipping of the POTUS motorcade while she was out riding her bike because it was caught on camera.

PapabearBlue

August 8th, 2018 at 10:45 AM ^

So can my company, but it's not something I agree with. Your company essentially compels your behavior despite not paying you, which, imo, is wage fraud and a form of indentured servitude. Furthermore, if they did count that time as part of your pay then most companies would be paying their employees well below the minimum wage.

trueblueintexas

August 8th, 2018 at 11:14 AM ^

I do agree with it because I enjoy working with good people instead of assholes.

My company doesn't compel anything. I was hired in part because my personal values align with company values. I have since taken that into account with every person I have hired.

If I wanted to work at a place where ethics and values didn't matter, I could, but I wouldn't enjoy it. 

charblue.

August 8th, 2018 at 11:09 AM ^

It fixes the immediate problem. You either solve this internally or it becomes a public relations nightmare. Guess which one this is? And guess which solutions are being proposed?

Meyer made this an issue for his school and raising the stakes of any administrative decision because he wasn't apparently a very good supervisor or he just had ulterior motives for keeping Smith around. You tell me which legal choice is the best one right now?

And you tell me if Meyer is retained that The Ohio State will avoid the legal stain from any lack of transparency in how it reached that decision. The choice is on the president's back, not the fan base. One has to live with it, the other has to deal with all the crap associated with it. We know what Ohio State is, and it ain't about upholding core values except to put recruits in a trance.

Jeff09

August 8th, 2018 at 10:18 AM ^

I guess my biggest question then is, if Meyer and the administrators followed proper protocol, why doesn't Zach Smith have a job today? The implication of the above post would be, OSU followed protocol, didn't find anything, and so he remained on staff. If that's true, why were they so rushed to fire Smith after a trespassing charge? Shouldn't Smith be the one on administrative leave being investigated if he's never been found to have committed any wrongdoing in the past? None of this makes sense. 

Jeff09

August 8th, 2018 at 10:30 AM ^

Exactly. Let me put on my credulous hat for a minute, and assume the following (note, I don't believe ANY of this, I'm just trying to make a point): Courtney Smith is wildly volatile, she is the source of the marital issues, not Zach, there is tons of evidence that she faked all the DV issues and even went so far as to doctor the photos she sent to Shelley Meyer, etc. Let's believe all of that is true and Urban and co. were justified to keep Smith on staff. Why is he gone now? You just can't have it both ways - if you followed protocols and did the right thing, he should 100% be on the staff today, period. 

bacon1431

August 8th, 2018 at 10:29 AM ^

Agreed. If the 2009 incident is not enough for Meyer to fire Smith, and any follow up alleged incidents are not enough to fire Smith, then why fire him for a trespassing charge? And not even that as he was still an employee until a reporter made the trespassing charge public. None of OSU/Meyer’s actions make sense to me so far, which is why I have a hard time believing anybody saying they have sources and the investigation is leaning this way or that way. 

Mr Miggle

August 8th, 2018 at 1:31 PM ^

Meyer admitted during media days that part of the reason he fired Smith was because his history went public. It's safe to say that was true and that it played a very big part in his decision. He can never credibly minimize its role given the timing.

There's some irony in Meyer's admission of making a move for PR reasons having the potential of bringing him and OSU the most bad PR

LabattsBleu

August 8th, 2018 at 10:20 AM ^

of course he is...  OSU was not going to fire their sacred cow, regardless of whether it was the right thing to do.

the question people should be asking is whether average Coach_____ would have survived this at all... my belief is that there is maybe 4 coaches that would absolutely survive this. Meyer, Saban, Smart and Swinney.

I don't believe Harbaugh would even survive this, mainly due to the fact he hasn't won anything here... if he was a MNC winner, i'd probably add him to the list of untouchables

we all know what kind of program OSU is and has been

denardogasm

August 8th, 2018 at 10:24 AM ^

I’ve said right from the start he isn’t going anywhere.  OSU doesn’t care about perception or morality.  They care about winning. That’s the way it’s always been. Why should they care what the rest of he country thinks of them? Everyone hates them anyway outside their own fan base, who again, only care about winning. There’s not a lot in Ohio to claim superiority for. This is their one thing. 

hgb4529

August 8th, 2018 at 10:49 AM ^

Massive difference is that OSU actually wins. UM fans have to claim they care about DV issues because they got nothing else to fall back on other than education (Harvard of the west, am I right?). 

MGoStrength

August 8th, 2018 at 1:20 PM ^

Everyone's welcomed here that contributes regardless of an fan allegiance, but c'mon.  We get it.  We know your take...Urban didn't technically lie, apparently reported it, the rest is tragic but not his problem, and UM fans only care because we're sick of losing to OSU.  You're entitled to your opinion, but why continue to argue the same thing ad nauseam on every Meyer investigation post?  Just let it go.  You'll be happier when you do.

charblue.

August 8th, 2018 at 11:19 AM ^

Your school has fired every coach since Woody and either they got fired for not beating Michigan as they were hired to beat the Wolverines, or they got fired for some really stupid stuff, which, in the end, couldn't be overlooked.

So, yes your school cares mostly about playing to win and beating Michigan. And this is documented in your school's football legacy and the incredible emphasis instilled by Woody on beating Michigan..

In our case, we hire coaches to beat Ohio State but we don't hesitate to fire them if they don't do the right thing. The Ohio State fires coaches only when it has no other option because winning....

charblue.

August 8th, 2018 at 10:24 AM ^

Does anyone know what constitutes following protocol until that declaration is determined by investigators?

The facts in this case remain skimpy at this point in terms of what was or wasn't done by Meyer in relation to his dealings in the firing of Zach Smith and his domestic behavioral history and how that played out with respect to Smith's employment history at Florida and Ohio State.

What is the culpability of a supervisor under Meyer's contractual arrangement with Ohio State regardless of whether he might have fulfilled a reporting obligation to notify a superior about an sexual misconduct-related case with a five-day period so it could reviewed as a possible Title IX violation? None of the details thus far reported makes any of those matters clear. So, how do you reach the conclusion that Meyer is probably going to be retained?

For Buckeye fans, I'm certain this is great news. It doesn't change the outside view, however, that there is no good longer term outlook stemming from that decision on the public relations front. In that regard, the damage is done. The school loses whether the fans are happy.

If Meyer is retained, Ohio State gets savaged as domestic violence abuse enabler, especially if the coach is retained based on a judgment of narrowly following the rules without really following a moral path to its conclusion in the handling of Smith and what he and his family should have received in oversight over time.

And this POV is based in part on what is actually known about reporting in the case as of now, that at a certain point Meyer advocated or supported continual hiring of Smith even though he was aware that members of his own mentor's family and a university figure urged Courtney Smith not to press charges against her husband. You can't know that fact, then claim based on the record that since there was no charges filed, that the behavior that could have led to it, is now mitigated or exonerated, in terms of supervisory knowledge.

It's like insisting that because Meyer responded to questioning at Media Days by claiming he was unprepared or was responding to a certain misleading fact (the initial police report check box of arrest on a Powell Police report of a domestic complaint call) that his somehow relieves Meyer from telling the truth to the press about what he knew and how he responded over time to Smith's checkered background in marriage relations.

To me, that is the most ludicrous defense of his character in this matter. Because if he were certain about his actions and the rightness of them as both a supervisor and program leader, he corrects the record in public, before the media where the case is then put to bed or in his statement that followed.

As we all know, he did neither. In fact, he misrepresented himself in his only public responses so far. He offered a limited hangout defense in which he admitted lying, without using that term, to explain his answers to reporter questions in Chicago, and then says that he did, in fact, report as required a domestic violence issue involving Smith in 2015 which he'd previously denied knowing about. Whether he went beyond making a phone call or having a conversation about it with AD Gene Smith has not been disclosed publicly in reporting thus far.

This along with documentation of an email train of correspondence between Meyer's own wife and those of his staffers, photographs of CS with visible signs of bruises and choke marks, along with two texts released after ZS's Friday ESPN interview challenging his veracity on any level of the case, makes any premature judgment about Meyer's supervision in this matter, hardly expected.

However, I will grant that even lack of proper supervision as mandated, can still pass the moral smell test if the modicum of that effort fails to sway  the privacy and legal rights of Meyer's employment, which would then lead to his retention because financial risk management is ultimately greater than any PC public relations hit that results. And the fan base is totally assuaged, even if they have to eat shit for it forever. That's probably the assessment here.

Perkis-Size Me

August 8th, 2018 at 10:35 AM ^

In a few short months the story is going to be ESPN slob-knobbing on OSU for how the team and coaching staff overcame this incredible hardship, how an entire state and fan base rallied behind their embattled coach to overcome the odds and contend for the playoffs again. 

Hopefully that all comes to a crashing halt with a UM win in Columbus. If it doesn’t happen this year, I don’t know that it ever happens as long as Meyer is around.