If You Had to Guess Right Now, Does Meyer Stay, Suspend, or Terminate?
Mates,
Despite some severely limited information (OSU is turtleing, for obvious reasons), we've had some great posts today about background information, FOIA denials, AD reactions and some fairly erudite comments about the issue. Simple Question, with a follow up:
Does Meyer stay at ohio, stay and get suspended, or get let go? And no matter your answer, why?
XM
Nothing bad ever happens to OSU football so either
a) suspended for 6-8 games or
b) he’s fired and they hire Nick Saban
I totally get your cynicism but... John Cooper happened.
And Charles Woodson
Stay. He's 6 and 0 against Michigan.
Let go.
suspend
If he had morals or ethic (clearly he does not, then he’d resign. Clearly he has no desire to do that. That corrupt football program values wins more than anything.
73% of those polled at Elevenwarriors (4,300-plus votes as of now) think Meyer's statement helps his cause.
I think that says all you need to know about their fanbase.
Link:
They can't see the forest thru the trees.
Well, Brett McMurphy thinks he's gone and he doesn't think OSU will really have a choice. Because he's on leave, OSU has to prove that Meyer basically isn't at fault for anything. And also his wife since she's a university employee. He thinks that'll prove to be impossible. He said this on The Audible podcast.
McMurphy knows stuff. Like how many occasions Courtney Smith says she was abused and sent out texts to Shelley Meyer and others about it.
We've been discussing whether Urban followed protocol in reporting the 2015 incident he admitted knowing about. There was more than one incident. That one was for DV and generated a police report in October. There was another two weeks later where she reported Zach for stalking. If the first incident was reported in a timely manner, the next still had to be reported.
And the obligation to report doesn't just arise when the police are involved. There were photos of her injuries from two different incidents in 2014. There was no less of an obligation to report both of those too. Again that's assuming he knew.
There were also numerous harassing and threatening text messages, Details of some of them were included in the original reporting. Those fall under OSU's definition of sexual misconduct.
Reporting one out of many incidents he was aware of would not be acceptable. If he only reported the one time that he knew a police report was generated, that just looks like a cynical attempt to cover his ass. It goes against the spirit of their policy. It wouldn't just be a technical violation. So even if Meyer followed proper protocols for the October incident, that's just the tip of the iceberg.
Suspended 3 games, and Ohio let's you know repeatedly how stand up they are b/c after all he'll be missing that super important game at JerryWorld against TCU (ranked!).
The argument will be that there was no arrest, so what could he have possibly done?
Stays, but is suspended for the first three games. Reasoning: Football is a huge income generator for Ohio State. They don't want to risk getting a new coach who may not produce the results Meyer has.
If Meyer actually did report this, there is literally no way OSU will fire him because there's no way they will pay him the $40m he's owed.
I tend to believe his statement Friday because Meyer is a guy who looks out for himself and covers his ass. And he reported it at Florida in 2009. So it would make sense he reported it in 2015. And it's already been stated their AD knew about the DV incident because Zach Smith said he met with their AD about it.
Now to be honest, and this won't be a popular opinion, but OSU may have done what they needed to do, legally, here. It's not clear if they're the ones who contacted the police or if the police contacted them, but either way, the police investigated this. And the police didn't find enough evidence to even charge Zach Smith.
So the only thing left is why was he still employed after 2015? That may end up getting Meyer suspended, but not fired. And the AD had the power to fire Zach Smith at any time too, so maybe something happens to him too. But both will just say the matter was investigated by police and no charges were filed.
Having an independent police department being in the center of this is what will save both Meyer and Gene Smith, like it or not.
An 11W OSU apologist. Don’t think for a second we don’t know who you are
Attack my premise if you want, but don't make it personal.
August 5th, 2018 at 12:10 AM ^
There are some OSU accounts popping up in this thread, but someone with 1000 points here doesn't appear to be just an OSU apologist.
I don't necessarily agree with what he said, but what he wrote was reasonably presented and well-thought. Even if incorrect.
If Meyer reported it, where is the documentation? Why did he release the statement at 5 PM on a Friday from his own twitter account instead of through the athletic department? Why was Zach Smith doing interviews at the same time the statement was released saying he supported Meyer? And why has the athletic department said nothing since they announced the investigation?
This doesn't read like an institution working with the coach to keep him around. It feels more like they are trying to distance themselves from him. Maybe that's just so they can sound impartial when he is given a slap on the wrist, but this isn't the circling the wagons that MSU did after Nassar.
OSU has gone into a media blackout. Not sure why Meyer released that statement at the same time Zach Smith was doing an interview. Could have been one of a few scenarios, 1) they were working in coordination, even though Meyer just fired Smith 2) Meyer thought Smith might lie during the interview and wanted to get his own statement out 3) it was a Friday news dump and just coincidental Smith was doing an interview during the same time.
OSU won't say anything publicly until this investigation is done. That's just how investigations work. Maybe stuff gets leaked, but they won't say anything officially.
you wrote this prior to Pat Forde who posited a very important question. Why would he go to the media when he has to appear at a very important court date regarding his restraining order in a few weeks and after his lawyer even said that he is going to have his say, but not with the media but in a court of law under oath.
he just contradicted his own attorney.
The police have nothing to do with this. If Meyer reported this as his contract requires, then there's a paper trail and a Title IX investigation report (though that would require Courtney Smith to be lying when she said OSU never contacted her). Meyer is okay if that's true. Even keeping Zach Smith employed is justified if the Title IX report came back recommending no action (obviously, if the report recommended action, then it was out of Urban's hands and he's still okay).
If there's no Title IX report, then Meyer didn't report it. Then he's gone.
The issue of Meyer's breach of contract revolves solely around his contractual obligation to make a report to the school's Title IX coordinator or assistant. What the police did or didn't do isn't material to that.
August 4th, 2018 at 10:03 PM ^
Many lawyers have said this is not a Title IX issue because she was not a University employee/student. So it is far from decided that Title IX even comes into play here.
Further, I don't know the exact protocol for how Title IX reporting works. If Urban reported this to his boss (Gene Smith) that may be sufficient.
August 4th, 2018 at 10:10 PM ^
Or, let's say the police contacted Gene Smith and then Gene Smith told Urban. What are Urban's reporting requirements at that point? Does he have to report back to his boss what his boss just told him?
August 4th, 2018 at 10:10 PM ^
Don't you have a problem with his weak ass attempt to paint over his lie at the B1G Media Days? That was as weak as weak can get. And if he's willing to lie about that then whats holding together the rest of his statement?
Urban said it himself...
Urban Meyer, in 2017: “If ...you lie, you can never coach again.”
Bye Urban...
August 4th, 2018 at 10:17 PM ^
Yeah, that could be a problem for him. But lying to the media won't get him fired. And in that quote I believe he was talking about the NCAA.
August 4th, 2018 at 10:22 PM ^
DV or sexual assault of any type must be reported if you are a 'mandatory reporter'. thats why they call it that. generally must be reported immediately, with a written report no later than 72 hrs of acquiring the information. shelley is a mandatory reporter as a nurse and ohio employee. urban is a mandatory reporter as an employee of the ohio DV university.
August 4th, 2018 at 10:26 PM ^
My point is, do 15 people have to report the same Title IX violation, or just 1. If 15 coaches know about something because their AD told them, are all 15 required to go file a report if their AD has already filed one?
If there were numerous incidents over a two year period, are you only required to report one of them? If so, could you choose one near the end?
I hope we all know the answer to that one.
For your example, yes I think all 15 coaches have the responsibility of making sure there is a report. If the AD didn't actually file one, then they could unwittingly be taking part in a cover up. That's one reason those rules are in place.
Could that mean additional coaches are suspended/fired as info is unearthed during the season?
August 5th, 2018 at 10:14 AM ^
Lots of things are possible. Some of their support staff could also be in the same situation. Meyer has the additional problem of being Smith's direct supervisor and making the calls to keep him on staff. The wording in their contracts could be different too, so I wouldn't expect the penalties to be the same across the board, if it comes to that.
I do think it's safe to say there are a lot of people who would like to see the investigation cut short.
August 5th, 2018 at 11:09 AM ^
Such as coach Ed Warinner.
The mandatory reporter status would apply if Courtney Smith was a patient of Shelley Meyer correct?
If he stays he's damaged goods.
If he goes: Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Those lying skunk dishonest cheating referees from the 2016 game can't save him from this.
Justice.
Meyer does not stay gets a portion of his moneyand ability to coach still. Notre Dame goes 8-5 this year and he is the head coach of Notre Dame next year.
He's gone because there is undoubtedly more issues with the statements he has made.
I think he will be given the chance to step down or be fired.
Also, I think there will be more that will be caught up in this - namely anyone that pressured her to drop charges or covered up for him.
He will be terminated soon. Interim coach has a much better situation than Fickell did and they still win double digit games. Herman leaves Texas to coach’s OSU in 2019 and they do not skip a beat.
OSU is built to handle these debacles unfortunately.
I don't see Herman leaving Texas. But OSU might get someone like Brohm.
August 4th, 2018 at 10:09 PM ^
Matt Campbell with another good season at Iowa State.
August 5th, 2018 at 11:14 AM ^
OSU is built to continue being a solid program but you don’t lose Urban Meyer and just go on as normal. As much as I hate the guy because of the scumbag he is, he will undoubtedly go down as one of the best college football coaches ever. The only reason OSU didn’t skip a beat after Tressel is because Urban showed. Herman is no UM. Although I believe it to be highly unlikely, I personally hope they experience what we have gone through the last decade and have a Rodriguez/Hoke debacle. Their fanbase is the most unreasonable and irrational I have ever listened to and boy would it be great to hear them during a time like that.
Sadly, I keep thinking that Urban will coach this season and then, cough cough, feel a little under the weather again and retire. I wish it wasn't so and that the University would do it for him, but that's my guess.
I think the OSU "brain trust" will suspend him for the first half of the season, just long enough for the PR tire fire to die down but not so long as to impact their meaningful games. Then it will be back to business as usual for the losers down south. I just don't see OSU giving up their golden child over this. He's won a lot of games and made a ton of money for them. I would be astonished if OSU did the right thing and fired his ass.
EDIT: game 5 of their season is @PSU. That is a meaningful game. They are also @TCU and that will be tough but I'm sure OSU will be favored. Their next two most meaningful games are MSU and Michigan and both are in the second half of the season and directly impact the B1G East.
He's gone. This was confirmed the moment he released a statement via his own Twitter account rather than thru OSU. He's angling against them.
Meh, actually the twitter statement is just the latest lawyer/pr move when you think maybe there's something else out there waiting in the shadows for you to release your official statement, and then pounce and show that you are wrong.
This way it's not an official statement, yet officialeese. So ofc someone hacked his twitter or he subsequently releases an update via press conference saying he needs to put it out verbally so he isn't misunderstood.
I could point you towards a more public figure who seems to have gotten the hang of this but that would make this a political post.
August 4th, 2018 at 10:15 PM ^
No, I think it's almost certain that OSU instructed everyone in their employ to avoid commenting except through official (and officially vetted) channels. There's simply no way they wanted him issuing a separate statement - one that throws his superior(s) under the bus. His statement made their jobs much harder. It's the sort of statement one makes in order to gain leverage in a contentious matter.
I'm sure you're correct.
I have yet to see anyone on Meyer's staff make a statement to support him. Only Smith, the former employee. That's pretty good evidence of a gag order.
Chris Ash made a very careful statement about the scandal. This was his only mention of Meyer. "Obviously you guys know how I feel about Coach Meyer and his family, but it’s a very serious situation and one that I’m sure all parties will take very seriously.”
I would guess that OSU is not the only school cautioning their coaches about commenting before this plays out.
I don’t feel that he will get fired and I don’t think a suspensions does anything as well. He should have to coach and donate his entire salary to woman’s groups and perform charitable acts for them as well.
He'll survive this. OSU knew what he was when they hired him. His behavior at Florida showed he would let the inmates run the asylum so long as he won, and it continued at his new job. They had to know this was possible and made that deal.
August 4th, 2018 at 10:37 PM ^
You are absolutely correct that OSU knew what they were getting when they hired Meyer. But the OSU administration has changed since he was hired. There's reason to believe they look at him differently.
They added a new clause to his contract strengthening his reporting obligations. Maybe it's in all new contracts for coaches, but it's still aimed at asserting more control over his program. They are dealing with their version of the Nassar scandal. That may well have prompted the tighter leash. It makes it harder for them to tolerate misdeeds in football. Most significantly, they quickly put Meyer on leave and launched a serious investigation. That wouldn't have happened with their old attitude.
I mean, really, whats' the difference between a stay and a 2 game suspend? A PR decision?
Suspended for non conference slate, because they don’t have the balls to fire him and sure as hell won’t jeopardize a chance to win the big ten.