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Manny Harris Out Today

By Brian — January 23rd, 2010 at 12:42 PM — 55 comments
Filed under:
  • manny harris
  • angry michigan BLANK hating god

In case you missed it in Tim's preview, this happened:

"Manny has made great strides both on and off the court over the last three years," Beilein said in a release. "Unfortunately he used poor judgment on Friday. It is best for Manny's future if he stays home and sits out this Purdue game. We will meet with Manny and the team again when we return to determine if he has learned enough from this suspension to rejoin the team for Tuesday's game. I am confident that this learning experience will be valuable in the future to both Manny and our basketball program."

Punch thrown? I can't think of much else that would warrant a suspension. Maybe Chris Kramer snuck into practice and Harris gave him a flaming elbow drop.

This reinforces my opinion on Harris's potential departure: he's not likely to go in the first round, but he's probably going to leave anyway. He and Beilein are not on the same page, it appears.

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January 23rd, 2010 at 12:52 PM | Not everyone is afraid of (Score:1)
ypsituckyboy
ypsituckyboy's picture
Joined: 06/22/2009
MGoPoints: 1262

Not everyone hates their disciplinarian. Manny is a smart kid (Academic All Big Ten, I think), so hopefully he knows that discipline is a good thing when wielded wisely. Beilein really looks out for these kids' best interests, and I'm sure he is very careful when taking action like this. I think Manny is smart enough to know that (a) it's a great idea to get your degree; (b) Beilein genuinely cares about him; and (c) his game isn't 1st round quality yet.

I have a sneaking suspicion Manny will be back next year.

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January 23rd, 2010 at 1:04 PM | I kind of have (Score:1)
Duncan
Duncan's picture
Joined: 11/24/2008
MGoPoints: 17

a feeling he'll be back next year also. Obviously no other reason than a guess. There's still a few areas that he needs to work on (in my opinion):

More consistent outside shot (range)
Strength when finishing. He's quite impressive at getting to the basket, just needs to finish stronger to gather more 3 pt play opportunities.

Whether or not that matters to him, may think his game could improve more outside of Beilein.

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January 23rd, 2010 at 5:02 PM | If he goes pro, he will be out of the league fairly quickly ... (Score:1)
UMMAN83
UMMAN83's picture
Joined: 11/26/2009
MGoPoints: 766

He is not ready. Watch the end of the Wiscy game or the whole game for that matter. Maybe he should and we get Zeigler.

Go Blue !!!

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January 23rd, 2010 at 5:40 PM | Totally disagree with your (Score:1)
Gus_possessivea...
Joined: 03/07/2009
MGoPoints: 215

Totally disagree with your assessment of Manny's weaknesses.

His strength IS finishing. His weakness is actually getting to the rim more efficiently (i.e. more frequently and with less turnovers in the process). When he actually does get near the rim without turning the ball over he's a magical finisher. Magical.

His dribbling has improved moderately this season. His elbow placement on his jumper is still awkwardly wide. He still has a great sense of where he is on the court, which leads to so many of his rebounds.

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January 23rd, 2010 at 10:46 PM | He would be able to get to (Score:1)
Jinxed
Joined: 09/15/2009
MGoPoints: 99

He would be able to get to the rim more efficiently if he improved his awkward jump shot. At this point, defenders don't respect his ability to shoot and simply keep their distance while cramping his right side.

If he improves his jumper.. he instantly becomes a triple threat and then you have to worry about him passing, shooting, or driving at any one time. It makes defending him a lot more challenging.

He also needs extensive work on his dribbling... He'll never be an elite defender because he lacks length...

In any case, I'm not sure that he can improve much at this point. I honestly think that what you see is what you get and I think he'll have trouble making an NBA team.

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January 23rd, 2010 at 5:33 PM | FWIW (Score:1)
Gus_possessivea...
Joined: 03/07/2009
MGoPoints: 215

I spoke with Ms. Harris after the Michigan-Wisconsin game in Madison last season and inquired whether Manny would be back another year (as in this year) and she answered, "Manny'll be back for 2 more years. He really wants to get his degree."

Of course most parents are going to say that about their children with pro potential, so I took it with a grain of salt. But I'm starting to wonder if maybe that's the case. And, FTR, I asked that question as somewhat of a compliment, because I knew at the time that Manny was not ready for the NBA. He's nearer now, but still not quite there.

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January 23rd, 2010 at 1:11 PM | ESPN just reported it was for (Score:1)
The Impaler
The Impaler's picture
Joined: 07/28/2009
MGoPoints: 929

ESPN just reported it was for unsportmanslike conduct during practice

All in and always in

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January 23rd, 2010 at 1:20 PM | Yeah, I agree he'll be back. (Score:1)
VictorsValiant09
VictorsValiant09's picture
Joined: 04/04/2009
MGoPoints: 408

Yeah, I agree he'll be back. For one, his decision-making skills with the basketball are not good.

Way too many ill-advised turnovers this year.

This really hurts our chances for a win Saturday.

"A rich tradition from the past and potential for future glory where anything but the best is unacceptable.  To uphold the greatness and excellence that Michigan Hockey represents by becoming a part of something greater than ourselves.&quo

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January 23rd, 2010 at 3:17 PM | Yea, I feel like he hasn't (Score:1)
almostkorean
Joined: 03/26/2009
MGoPoints: 15

Yea, I feel like he hasn't improved much from last season. Maybe he stays?

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January 23rd, 2010 at 1:25 PM | Aw (Score:1)
Ty Butterfield
Joined: 09/07/2009
MGoPoints: 487

Aw Hamburgers.

Dark and difficult times lie ahead.

"But in the tire fire that was last year's secondary he showed a little spark." - Brian Cook

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January 23rd, 2010 at 1:26 PM | If your guess about what he (Score:1)
chitownblue2
chitownblue2's picture
Joined: 06/03/2009
MGoPoints: 6207

If your guess about what he did is right (a punch thrown, or something similar), how does that reflect on his relationship with Beilein (unless the punch was thrown at Beilein)?

wolverineliberationarmy.com/blog

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January 23rd, 2010 at 3:17 PM | They're still not on the same page (Score:1)
M-Wolverine
M-Wolverine's picture
Joined: 10/04/2009
MGoPoints: 30093

If they don't see eye to eye on what's acceptable or not, there's a split there. It could be pulled together, but in a sport where people are much more likely to jump to the pros, and we can ill afford to lose anyone who can actually play, because we don't have many who can, it's a problem. You could say anybody could get frustrated and throw a punch, if that's what happened, but the fact is no one else has under Beilein. Manny has been benched for a crucial game, suspended by the Big Ten (erroneously, in my opinion, but still), and now this. No one else has that track record under this regime.

"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk

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January 23rd, 2010 at 4:17 PM | I'm sure that Beilein and (Score:1)
chitownblue2
chitownblue2's picture
Joined: 06/03/2009
MGoPoints: 6207

I'm sure that Beilein and Manny see eye-to-eye whether fighting with a teammate is "acceptable". That doesn't mean Manny made the right decision in the heat of the moment.

wolverineliberationarmy.com/blog

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January 23rd, 2010 at 4:17 PM | I'm sure that Beilein and (Score:1)
chitownblue2
chitownblue2's picture
Joined: 06/03/2009
MGoPoints: 6207

I'm sure that Beilein and Manny see eye-to-eye whether fighting with a teammate is "acceptable". That doesn't mean Manny made the right decision in the heat of the moment.

wolverineliberationarmy.com/blog

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January 23rd, 2010 at 1:27 PM | Everyone got their knickers in a twist last year (Score:1)
Other Chris
Other Chris's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 1169

When Manny got benched against Iowa. And yet, here he still is. I think your last paragraph is reading too much into the situation.

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January 23rd, 2010 at 1:35 PM | FTW (Score:1)
cps2010
Joined: 08/08/2009
MGoPoints: 3449

And by that I don't mean "for the win."

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January 23rd, 2010 at 1:59 PM | I'll be shocked if Manny returns next year (Score:1)
Don
Don's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 17049

If he does, good for him and the team, but I'd bet he's a goner.


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January 23rd, 2010 at 2:05 PM | Manny benched for discipline (Score:1)
DoubleMs
DoubleMs's picture
Joined: 10/13/2008
MGoPoints: 586

Manny benched for discipline may be a positive for the team in several ways. Not only will it teach him a lesson, but Novak and Douglass tend to like having a great reason to step up. I think we'll see a hell of a game against Purdue, with Novak and Douglass doing their best accurate-shooter impressions.

MGoGTI

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January 23rd, 2010 at 2:08 PM | So (Score:1)
jamiemac
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 7490

So are we taking odds on which Wolverine has a shiner today from a practice?

Gotta think Novak is the leader in the clubhouse. Maybe Morris was checking him too closely. Or did CJ Lee come back and annoy him into a double elbow. I dont know all good choices.

Anyway, line has gone up to Purdue -13.5

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January 23rd, 2010 at 2:19 PM | AP said it was for (Score:1)
bronxblue
Joined: 11/22/2008
MGoPoints: 10852

AP said it was for unsportsmanlike conduct at practice, which probably means either fight or some other physical altercation, or he really mouthed off to a coach. Either way, I am not ready to declare Harris gone and the rift between him and coach B too great to traverse. This suspension may actually beneficial in the sense that it (a) maybe forces Manny to reevaluate his game a bit and why he has struggled recently, and (b) tells the rest of the team that who you are doesn't supersede how this team will play. That type of message will probably stick and, hopefully, give them a spark today.

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January 23rd, 2010 at 2:26 PM | Belien is just doing this do (Score:1)
gordie bell
gordie bell's picture
Joined: 03/15/2009
MGoPoints: 6177

Belien is just doing this do drive up the ratings and get some publicity so he can become a bad boy recruiter like Kiffin.

Also Belien is playing the good cop bad cop like a pro, which is the reason he is bringing Grady back to the team. What a Maestro

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January 23rd, 2010 at 3:02 PM | New Tag (Score:1)
pz
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 706

Angry Michigan 2008-2010 Hating God

This is Michigan.
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January 23rd, 2010 at 3:09 PM | I gotta disagree on the punch thrown thing (Score:1)
Captain Obvious
Joined: 03/17/2009
MGoPoints: -469

If there was a fight, the other participant would likely be out as well unless he just stood there and took the punch without retaliating, etc. My guess is talking back to the coaches or being a (verbal) dick to his teammates. Every possibility surprises me because he seems like such a calm, even person.

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January 23rd, 2010 at 3:11 PM | Man-O-Manny (Score:1)
DougoBlue
DougoBlue's picture
Joined: 02/06/2009
MGoPoints: 6

I think it would be nice if he started to play (and act) like an upperclassman.

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January 23rd, 2010 at 3:14 PM | I love that Beilein doesn't (Score:1)
jsquigg
jsquigg's picture
Joined: 09/06/2009
MGoPoints: 826

I love that Beilein doesn't let his stars dictate how he coaches. I know other coaches would cover up and play Manny anyway. As to him coming back, I don't see it, but hopefully the lesson is learned by other players as well as by Manny.

Hail to the Victors!

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January 23rd, 2010 at 3:22 PM | And when we have a squad with no star players, we'll do well... (Score:1)
M-Wolverine
M-Wolverine's picture
Joined: 10/04/2009
MGoPoints: 30093

...in the NIT. This just looks bad, for recruiting far more than this season. How do you think other Detroit kids are looking at this? Or frankly, any prospects with any talent. Maybe Manny's more of a troublemaker than we think, but I haven't gotten that impression. But in any regard, programs around the country seem to have lots of big time talents, and not have their most talented player continually get into trouble with the coach. I imagine Izzo is licking his chops not at the prospect that Manny might not play them (because I doubt he was very worried either way), but the long term ramifications.

This is bad...and not just because it's going to affect the final score today. I don't blame Beilein for instituting discipline where needed. I wonder why he hasn't been able to get his star player in line with his views after almost 3 years. And none of it looks like a positive for recruiting, which is where he's going to live or die.

"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk

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January 23rd, 2010 at 4:08 PM | Yep, you're right (Score:1)
InterM
InterM's picture
Joined: 01/16/2009
MGoPoints: 841

Izzo would never do this. Except when he benched Kalin Lucas less than a month ago . . . .

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January 23rd, 2010 at 4:42 PM | When you have a team full of star players... (Score:1)
M-Wolverine
M-Wolverine's picture
Joined: 10/04/2009
MGoPoints: 30093

...instead of one, it doesn't stand out quite as much...

"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk

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January 23rd, 2010 at 4:58 PM | I didn't realize this was your point (Score:1)
InterM
InterM's picture
Joined: 01/16/2009
MGoPoints: 841

Seeing as how you were complaining about how Beilein "hasn't been able to get his star player in line with his views after almost 3 years." Since Lucas is also a junior, I guess that applies to Izzo as well.

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January 23rd, 2010 at 4:48 PM | Quick with a neg... (Score:1)
M-Wolverine
M-Wolverine's picture
Joined: 10/04/2009
MGoPoints: 30093

Anyone equally quick with a response?

Never seen everyone so hostile to actually AGREEING with Brian...haha

"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk

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January 23rd, 2010 at 4:09 PM | I think that you are reading way too much into this. (Score:1)
champswest
champswest's picture
Joined: 10/04/2009
MGoPoints: 1208

If we lose a recruit over this, then IMO we didn't need that kid anyway.

"I hate losing more than I like winning." - Zack

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January 23rd, 2010 at 4:15 PM | WHAT DOES PUNCHING SOMEONE IN (Score:1)
chitownblue2
chitownblue2's picture
Joined: 06/03/2009
MGoPoints: 6207

WHAT DOES PUNCHING SOMEONE IN PRACTICE HAVE TO DO WITH HARRIS NOT SEEING EYE TO EYE WITH BEILEIN?

"Unsportsmanlike Conduct in Practice" is a fight. I'm sure if he got in a fight, he understand he can't do that, but lost temper. I'm sure that he doesn't feel that he can punch people without consequence. How is this a "continuing" issue as you described? He was benched for 5 minutes last year. That's it. Stop being a pollyana.

wolverineliberationarmy.com/blog

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January 24th, 2010 at 12:03 AM | To whom (Score:1)
zlionsfan
zlionsfan's picture
Joined: 10/31/2008
MGoPoints: 589

does it look bad, besides one-and-done kids? Players who expect to come in and tell their coaches what to do?

I'm not sure why you don't have the impression that Manny is more of a troublemaker than we think ... clearly Beilein doesn't do this with the entire team. Most players seem to be able to stay out of the doghouse.

FWIW, I doubt Izzo needs to concern himself right now with long-term ramifications of anything in Ann Arbor. Sure, if it were possible that only certain star recruits would consider a Michigan school, and the chances of MSU landing one depended directly on whether or not Michigan was interested, then maybe this would be a factor for a few of them, but there's really no reason for Izzo to worry at all about what Beilein does or doesn't do.

If anything, this is a positive for Michigan, not a negative. It sends a message to other players and to recruits that no matter who you are, you don't get away with crap here. Players that are looking for less discipline probably aren't looking to Michigan anyway ... perhaps they are looking somewhere a bit south of Ann Arbor.

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January 23rd, 2010 at 3:19 PM | Manny is a tough guy to (Score:1)
AlwaysBlue
Joined: 11/23/2008
MGoPoints: 381

Manny is a tough guy to figure. I thought after the Penn State game he might have finally found the kind of swagger needed to both lead and maximize his game. Unfortunately it looks like the next place it showed up was at practice.

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January 23rd, 2010 at 3:24 PM | Brian sorta mentioned this... (Score:1)
Tater
Tater's picture
Joined: 08/13/2008
MGoPoints: 8556

My first reaction to this is that the last thing JB or anyone associated with the UM wants to risk is Manny popping Chris Kramer in the nose today. JB is sending a message that you don't do things that way if you are going to play for the University of Michigan. Congrats to JB.

On the bright side, it was benching Manny that led to the "hot streak" at the end of last year. Also, the team gets a head start of what it will be like to play BT games without him. This looks like a "crossroads" event; I hope it takes a turn that we all like at the end of the season.

http://tinfoilhatsportsblog.blogspot.com/

 

 

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January 23rd, 2010 at 3:39 PM | Sounds like Manny got a (Score:1)
BleedingBlue
BleedingBlue's picture
Joined: 07/25/2008
MGoPoints: 1942

Sounds like Manny got a little too fresh...Avatar change might have to happen if he punched a teammate...

Meeechingan Football 2011:  Now featuring ManBall™

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January 23rd, 2010 at 3:43 PM | he's not a first round (Score:1)
Jon Benke
Jon Benke's picture
Joined: 01/04/2010
MGoPoints: 1326

He's not a first round talent, and in the NBA, if you are not a first round talent, you return to where you came from. Lets hope, for both Manny and the program, that he has a Chris Perry like lightbulb moment, and decides to comeback and listen to whatever his coach says...

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January 23rd, 2010 at 4:04 PM | Grady (Score:1)
Kilgore Trout
Kilgore Trout's picture
Joined: 02/20/2009
MGoPoints: 1738

So is this real or not? UMHoops has it mentioned and links back to mgoblog, but that thread seems to have been deleted and a search of Kelvin Grady brings up nothing but old football news.

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January 23rd, 2010 at 4:20 PM | HOLY SHIT (Score:1)
jb
Joined: 07/25/2008
MGoPoints: 7

Deshawn Sims is putting on a clinic!!! 11 points before the first tv timeout, DAMN!

Even if we lose this game - that sucka came to play today!

Hail!

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January 23rd, 2010 at 4:24 PM | Manny N Beilein (Score:1)
burtcomma
burtcomma's picture
Joined: 11/01/2009
MGoPoints: 2159

The kind of coach we want to have at Michigan and let's not be too quick to hassle Manny because any male under the age of 30 ought to be given some room to grow.

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January 23rd, 2010 at 4:47 PM | Fvck Manny (Score:1)
bluebugsy
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Joined: 02/04/2009
MGoPoints: 21

Fvck Manny

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January 23rd, 2010 at 5:14 PM | And other constructive (Score:1)
El Jeffe
El Jeffe's picture
Joined: 07/07/2008
MGoPoints: 6202

And other constructive comments from ancient Rome.

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January 23rd, 2010 at 4:46 PM | Manny punched me in the dong. (Score:1)
El Jeffe
El Jeffe's picture
Joined: 07/07/2008
MGoPoints: 6202

Manny punched me in the dong. That's what happened.

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January 24th, 2010 at 10:44 PM | No, that was the Michigan hating God taking the image of Manny (Score:1)
Muttley
Muttley's picture
Joined: 07/06/2009
MGoPoints: 3533

Too bad Beilein fell for it.

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January 23rd, 2010 at 7:43 PM | He's Just Not a Very Good Player (Score:1)
NJWolverine
Joined: 08/31/2008
MGoPoints: 175

Granted, he's far better than Anthony Wright, but when he runs the system he's ineffective against good defenses. NBA scouts aren't going to care about what you did against poor teams, they care about how you do against good defenders and good teams. Harris can't create his own shot and is a turnover machine against good competition. He needs the entire offense to set up lanes for him to drive after his defender is off balance. That's the only way he can score and draw fouls. His mid-range game is almost nonexistent. He takes too long to take a jump shot and his 3 point shooting hasn't improved. He's just limited as a player. I never understood the hype with him. He's at best a 2nd round prospect and won't make a NBA team. Maybe he realizes this and that's why he's frustrated.

On a side note, Sims has done a nice job improving his NBA stock. Although undersized, he has a knack for scoring around the basket and has developed a midrange and even a 3 point game. He has improved his quickness and scoring under Beilein and if he does make the NBA he has only Beilein to thank. I don't know if Harris just isn't listening or if he's really just not a good player, but I still believe in Beilein's ability to develop players.

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January 23rd, 2010 at 10:32 PM | Agree with you on ALL counts. (Score:1)
Jinxed
Joined: 09/15/2009
MGoPoints: 99

Agree with you on ALL counts. However, our friends wearing very thick maize and blue goggles negged you.

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January 23rd, 2010 at 10:05 PM | Well... (Score:1)
jb
Joined: 07/25/2008
MGoPoints: 7

What if UM beats Wisc. the other night and Harris plays today.

AND UCONN DOES THEIR DAMN JOB AND BEATS TEXAS. How come a plan never comes together????

Hail!

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January 23rd, 2010 at 11:32 PM | Learn Greek or Italian (Score:1)
Steve in PA
Joined: 08/10/2009
MGoPoints: 2238

Because that's all the pro ball he'll play next year. I mentioned that the other day and I firmly believe it.

Manny has gotten the team this far from what it was. But, just like Moses he'll never see the promised land with this team. He really isn't a good fit for JB's offense. He's a dribble-drive player and JB's offense demands a level of defense and offensive patience that Manny isn't capable of providing.

The last few (2?) games Manny has looked like a petulant child on the floor and the offense actually runs JB's offense better without him. Sims has picked up his game tremendously and has actually lived up to his potential.

Sims has made his game fit JB's system and it has paid dividends. Manny would be wise to do likewise.

Spreadsheet Count So Far:

Correct:  5        Incorrect: 3-  Zeke Pike, Eric Magnuson, Kiel

 

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January 24th, 2010 at 9:06 AM | I mean, I agree that Manny (Score:1)
chitownblue2
chitownblue2's picture
Joined: 06/03/2009
MGoPoints: 6207

I mean, I agree that Manny has his problems. He's a poor jump-shooter. His handle on drives leaves something to be desired. He rarely just pulls the trigger on an open jumper, but waits to take a jab step or two before launching one with a defender in his face. He can be a lackadaisical defender. He probably wouldn't score as much if he wasn't our go-to free-throw shooter when we try to ice the game.

But, we run Beilein's system better without him? Did you see the game yesterday? We started out going into Sims, who, IME, has been our best player this season. Sims scored efficiently. Eventually, the defense adapted, and basically just converged on Sims...and nobody on our team could even find a shot for themselves. When Sims got taken away, we were left with everyone else passing the ball along the perimeter until there were 4 or 5 seconds left on the clock (if we hadn't turned it over at that point), at which point they failed to drive and lost their handle, or launched an ineffective jumper. Admittedly, Novak got a few buckets in the second half, but Purdue's defensive effort was sleeping on a pillow-top mattress at midcourt by then. Without Harris, this team lacks almost anyone with the inclination or ability to pull the trigger.

wolverineliberationarmy.com/blog

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January 24th, 2010 at 9:38 AM | Forced family fun (Score:1)
Steve in PA
Joined: 08/10/2009
MGoPoints: 2238

Didn't get to see yesterday's game. Son had a BB tournament all day.

My observations were based on the last two games excluding yesterday. I have watched them on my computer and stand by the belief that they run JB's offense better w/o Manny right now. Floor spacing and movement is much better. Players aren't standing around watching "Manny be Manny". Sims puts up less of his patented 3-pt shots with less 10 off the shotclock too.

A also think at this point that Morris and Douglas are the most important players going forward for this team. Morris is going to be a very good PG and Douglas is deadly as a spot 3-pt shooter, not a PG.

Spreadsheet Count So Far:

Correct:  5        Incorrect: 3-  Zeke Pike, Eric Magnuson, Kiel

 

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