Sanderson filed formal HR complaint against Howard per Brendan Quinn
https://theathletic.com/5134471/2023/12/13/juwan-howard-michigan-basketball/
According to three team and university sources, speaking on the condition of anonymity because they’re not authorized to speak publicly on internal university personnel issues, Sanderson filed an HR claim following a heated dispute with Howard on Dec. 7..
...
The confrontation between Howard and Sanderson stemmed from a disagreement between an athletic trainer and senior guard Jace Howard, Juwan’s 22-year-old son. Jace Howard has not played this season with a stress fracture in his right knee and tibia, and questioned why he’s yet to be cleared to play.
[ED- I cut the quoted part down. Please don't c/p most of someone's article]
December 13th, 2023 at 1:42 PM ^
Football school.
December 13th, 2023 at 2:16 PM ^
Baseball School!
December 13th, 2023 at 2:21 PM ^
Hockey school! We are tied with Denver for the most national championships (9)
December 13th, 2023 at 3:12 PM ^
Obscure historical references school.
December 13th, 2023 at 4:42 PM ^
54-40 or fight school.
December 13th, 2023 at 4:59 PM ^
Apollo 15 school.
December 13th, 2023 at 8:06 PM ^
Emperor Norton school.
December 13th, 2023 at 7:09 PM ^
Tippecanoe and Tyler Too school.
December 13th, 2023 at 3:25 PM ^
Football AND wrestling school.
December 13th, 2023 at 3:34 PM ^
Serial killer/assassin school!
December 13th, 2023 at 5:01 PM ^
Voice of Luke's father's undergraduate school.
December 13th, 2023 at 5:31 PM ^
Gerald Ford School
December 13th, 2023 at 5:41 PM ^
Playing school school.
December 13th, 2023 at 1:44 PM ^
Time to cut loose. Most of us were thrilled with his hire, albeit a bit apprehensive. Howard had big shoes to fill. And things looked promising at first. A lack of recent on the court performance we could wait out--schools are too quick to pull the trigger often. But this behavior is a pattern now. He does not have the demeanor to handle the stress and conflict that comes with being the head coach of a major program.
December 13th, 2023 at 1:53 PM ^
I was not thrilled - sadly.
December 13th, 2023 at 2:03 PM ^
This is a pretty soft take. We don’t know what makes up “a heated exchange” in this instance, but if things didn’t get physical I don’t see an issue. Communication in locker rooms and playing fields is 99% yelling, and it shouldn’t be a surprise that coach’s/players sometimes lose sight of when the yelling is appropriate and when it is not. If this were just a screaming match, move on.
December 13th, 2023 at 2:08 PM ^
Other sites/sources seem to be verifying the "culture issue" rumors discussed earlier. If those rumors prove true, it seems like this altercation was a flashpoint of a much larger issue. The program can't just "move on;" change is needed.
December 13th, 2023 at 5:45 PM ^
And Sanderson is a culture expert? He's a trainer.
December 13th, 2023 at 7:32 PM ^
You realize this Sanderson issue isn't the first time a problem has popped up, right? I like to give coaches time and the benefit of the doubt, and we don't know what happened, but yeah this seems like a pattern. It's possible Sanderson was to blame and still put in a formal complaint, buuuut...maybe not.
I'm not saying fire Juwan now. Certainly it needs to be investigated though.
December 13th, 2023 at 2:09 PM ^
Yeah Stevenrking's post in the other thread is pretty convincing. I agree with him now. Put the pitchforks away and let the story, and the season, play out before drawing ultimate conclusions.
December 13th, 2023 at 3:54 PM ^
Nah. If Sanderson filed a complaint in that atmosphere, there was definitely a good reason to. It's time to move on from Howard. We don't need a "story." One has a reputation for being a hothead, and the other does not. It's a clear pattern now. Anyone who can't see that, just doesn't want to.
December 13th, 2023 at 7:04 PM ^
I'm not trying to be rude at all, but how does Sanderson filing a complaint infer more wrongness done on Howard's part? The complaint is the beginning of a process right? No guilt has been decided or proven yet right?
December 13th, 2023 at 8:45 PM ^
This complaint is part of a pattern. If you choose to look at it as an isolated incident, then I'd have to ask how many isolated incidents do you require to start to see a pattern?
December 13th, 2023 at 6:47 PM ^
I agree. I honestly think this team can win they just need time to play together. Let it play out.
December 13th, 2023 at 7:50 PM ^
I'm not with Stephen on this. Sanderson has been a catalyst for the team's prior winning culture and development. Howard has a history now of pissing away what he inherited and lacking composure in stressful situations. Give him the year to turn it around but if they miss out on the tourney he needs to go IMO.
December 13th, 2023 at 3:03 PM ^
Communication in locker rooms and playing fields is 99% yelling, and it shouldn’t be a surprise that coach’s/players sometimes lose sight of when the yelling is appropriate and when it is not.
Do you think Jon Sanderson doesn't understand that? The man's a strength and conditioning coach. Those dudes yell all the time. He's also been here since 2009, so he's seen a lot.
If he's filing an HR complaint, something went very wrong here.
December 13th, 2023 at 3:07 PM ^
yeah, you should have seen Hoke and Mattison play Euchre!
December 13th, 2023 at 3:35 PM ^
FYI: Screaming is grounds for dismissal at UM. Zero tolerance means just that. They can fire you for it.
December 13th, 2023 at 4:39 PM ^
Problem is he's on a zero tolerance policy after his previous acts of idiocy. If a strength and conditioning coach was concerned enough to go to HR, that's not good. He'll always be a legend at Michigan and I thank him for the success he did have as HC, but sometimes it's just time to part ways.
December 13th, 2023 at 5:30 PM ^
You’re getting negged because a lot of people just want an excuse to get rid of Howard because they’re naive to think Beilein will (or can) come back and rescue the program or that someone else “big” will come.
Sanderson’s alleged response to Jace (a student)‘s rudeness was a shitty, emotionally foolish way to air a grievance with his boss—through his kid. He not only went at his kid, but he went at the entire program by blaming his kid.
December 13th, 2023 at 6:13 PM ^
Dude. I’ve defended Juwan many times here over the past four years, but at some point the pattern becomes obvious.
He had to be restrained from going after Turgeon.
He slapped Krabbenhoft in the face.
Now this. It may well be that Sanderson said something dumb, but Juwan can control how he reacts. At least he should if he wants to keep the job he has. It’s not too much to ask your coach to not fight (or threaten to fight) other coaches on the regular.
December 13th, 2023 at 10:18 PM ^
I'll add the double technical/ejection from a recent game he wasn't even "coaching" while he recovers from heart surgery. Bad, bad look, if nothing else.
That incident made me wonder if the end is indeed near for him at UM.
Also, how/why is it possible for him to travel out of country with the team, be on the bench and get so worked up he gets ejected - yet he's not recovered enough to be the head coach yet? I'm kinda lost on that one.
December 13th, 2023 at 8:38 PM ^
Google pattern of behavior.
December 13th, 2023 at 2:44 PM ^
Yes. Even ignoring the poor record, it is time to move on. Too bad.
December 14th, 2023 at 6:15 AM ^
I was all for the legacy hire but agree here. Things just haven’t worked out on or obviously off the court.
December 13th, 2023 at 1:44 PM ^
This, not media rumors, is where the rubber would meet the road. HR complaints are non-trivial.
And where I push back against a lot of the Warde bashing, this is an area where he has no benefit of the doubt.
I don't like people making negative assumptions, but they will be hard to avoid in this case, and that is frankly something that Warde and to some extent Juwan have invited.
December 13th, 2023 at 1:49 PM ^
Yeah, if this is true, we've moved past "not a big deal." There's no way that Sanderson would do this lightly.
December 13th, 2023 at 2:04 PM ^
Exactly. By filing a formal complaint he knows two things:
1. He will be afforded legal protection against retaliation
2. He has escalated whatever happened dramatically. He's forcing the University to review and adjudicate his claim
I've been a big Howard supporter but I'm afraid the time has come for Michigan to move on. He simply cannot control his anger and that's just not acceptable.
December 13th, 2023 at 3:36 PM ^
Part of me wished it was kept in house and that Sanderson didn't do this. Imagine how many times Bo's equipment guy could have filed a complaint against him. Wonder if Sanderson did so in fear of being canned. I hate all of this.
Aside...one can say that a trainer shouldn't say what he did and instead go to coach privately.
December 13th, 2023 at 3:38 PM ^
Saying you loved how Bo kept things in house is certainly a take.
December 13th, 2023 at 4:11 PM ^
I was about to say, keeping things in house didn't exactly do wonders for MSU or PSU. It actually takes a lot of courage to file a complaint like this when you know it's going to be a tough working environment after the complaint is filed.
December 13th, 2023 at 6:01 PM ^
No, the problem was Juwan didn't choose to handle this in private between him and Sanderson. Instead, he decided to escalate it in front of the team. That shows very poor judgement and lack of control. And this can contribute to creating an alleged "poor culture" in the program.
December 13th, 2023 at 7:56 PM ^
Wow....Perhaps the worst take I have seen on this board in years, maybe ever.
What you just said is literally the reason why what happened at Penn State, Michigan State, Ohio State and MICHIGAN happened with the sexual assault scandals, they all "kept it in house" instead of doing the right thing and reporting it to the proper channels.
I don't think I have ever said this on a message board before, but you should be ashamed with this post.
December 13th, 2023 at 5:14 PM ^
It's also a no-win career move, aside from protection against retaliation, so it likely was very serious.
December 13th, 2023 at 7:59 PM ^
That's pretty much where I am.
December 13th, 2023 at 1:53 PM ^
The Warde bashing is starting to make sense, even to the most even-handed of us. I don't really give a shit about Warde or who the AD is. As far as I'm concerned they can just keep things ticking over at status quo and that's a "decent" AD. If they do something to improve the teams and the fan experience, that's a great AD.
But the consistent rumors around him not getting along with Jim being part of the hold up in the contract here, Santa having to step into things, the mishandling of the hockey situation....the list is slowly adding up to the point where it feels like it may be time for a change there.
Some people are good bean counters and shit at sports. Some people get the sports but not the numbers. But the AD is the boss/manager of these sports and their respective coaches and it really seems like Warde is getting in the way of excellence with his mishandling of..just about everything.
December 13th, 2023 at 2:05 PM ^
I don't put stock into rumors. Speculations, really, is all they are. People invent a lot of ideas for why they think things are what they are.
Also, I think there is a lot of desire from people to have an AD who is a big personality, the fact of the athletic department, but that's not really a necessary part of the job. Brandon was such an AD and he was... Dave Brandon.
But:
There are two clear events where Warde has unquestionably not performed well: The months-long Mel Pearson ordeal, and the bizarre Harbaugh contract renewal that required Santa Ono to personally intervene to quiet down. I don't consider the delay now to be as troubling an issue from a Warde standpoint--I suspect the unusual circumstances of the year and Harbaugh are the major sticking points, not Warde--but the fact that Warde was stepped over by Ono and had his hand forced with Mel is not good at all. I honestly expected Warde to leave after the spring semester, which means, perhaps, that he has more going for him than we can see, but those are two major missteps for which he is definitely responsible.
And given that Juwan's job status is in the same neighborhood of responsibility for Warde, he doesn't have a lot of wiggle room. If Juwan stays (and I've argued that, assuming he has not committed a fireable offense with Sanderson, he should be given time) it will not be possible to argue that Warde has definitely done his due diligence in keeping him, because he did not do such due diligence with Mel Pearson.
And, frankly, if he decides to fire Juwan and the evidence against Juwan is, in any way, unclear, it may (will, to some parties) suggest that Warde was overreacting in response to his poor handling of Mel and overreacting to the need to appear tightly disciplined after recent football staff firings.
I hate it when people basically hold everything against someone no matter what they do; coaches and ADs can certainly be unfairly placed in those places, and Warde has been unfairly placed in such a place before. But this particular kind of issue is very tricky and his job is harder because he himself has done poorly in this area in the past.
December 13th, 2023 at 2:29 PM ^
Overall do not disagree, but one small pushback:
People can and do grow, so it's possible that Warde might have learned his lesson from the Pearson debacle and proactively does the right thing which informs his decision as to whether or keep or kick Juwan. Now, a lot of people are going to reflexively counter by asking "What makes you give Warde the benefit of the doubt here?" and honestly, I don't have a good answer for that. But you do have to allow for that possibility however slim it may appear - frankly, as fans, that's all we can really do. The proof, as they say, will be in the pudding. I'm not *hopeful*, but we have to allow for the possibility of Warde doing the right thing, whatever that may be.
From my vantage point (behind my keyboard from the comfort of my glass house), I have no particular need to keep Juwan as coach. His defenders will say that there wouldn't be all this noise if the team is winning, but I would counter by saying that this level of apparent dysfunction is actively impeding the team's success. It's like with Shane-gate: would it have been a Big Story if 2014 Michigan was a contending team? That's an utter non-question, because Brady Hoke was demonstrably so in over his head that 2014 Michigan was never going to be a contending team.
December 13th, 2023 at 10:27 PM ^
Ironically, "Shane-gate" demonstrated that it was the AD that was in over his head (though Hoke was as well, but not for that incident). Shane himself has stated that there was no concussion, but rather a badly bruised ankle that made him stagger a bit when he put his weight on it. Dave Brandon knew that there was no concussion, but decided to throw Hoke under the bus and lie, implying (but not outright stating) that Hoke had lied and Morris did have a "possible slight concussion." If he'd left it to the medical professionals, they'd have said there was no concussion and, thus, no story.
That's just one of the many times Dave Brandon begged to be fired. I count ourselves lucky that we've got a boring AD.
December 13th, 2023 at 3:58 PM ^
And, frankly, if he decides to fire Juwan and the evidence against Juwan is, in any way, unclear, it may (will, to some parties) suggest that Warde was overreacting in response to his poor handling of Mel and overreacting to the need to appear tightly disciplined after recent football staff firings.
When we're talking about a coach who in less than three years has had three major anger episodes that we know of, one of which got physical ... I don't think too many people would consider a firing hasty at this point. Quite a few people argued that he should have been dismissed after the Wisconsin incident.
As someone who has been a fan of Juwan Howard since his playing days, I hate saying this. But it's pretty tough to deny the pattern of behavior at this point. Maybe the stress of the job is just too much for him.