Regarding Recent Commits
Let me apologize in advance. I know a good amount of us are fed up with the recruit rankings talk, but I've been thinking of it in a way I haven't really seen discussed.
Some Things We Know:
-Harbaugh likes tough "chip on the shoulder types"
-He is also fairly accomplished at developing unheralded players into players to be proud of.
-Players pay attention to their recruiting rankings. An actual number representation of your perceived value.
Do you think recruiting a handful of decent upside, low star guys is being looked at as a "Win Win" for Harbaugh and Co.? You get guys willing to commit to a demanding team of coaches, and not drag the recruiting process along. These guys also come into it knowing they have to earn spots against players they are already being told are better. Before they even start they know they have a little more to prove. And a handful could eventually turn into All-Conference type players under this coaching staff.
Oddly enough, I also see this as being better motivation for the higher rated players. A four or five star sees someone ranked lower outperform them, or win praise from coaches, maybe it serves as inspiration to prove themselves. Think of the little things that motivate you. It may be easier to be second on the depth chart when you lose out to a fellow four star recruit, than to someone with one or two D1 offers.
tl;dr - Does Harbaugh view these unheralded commits as a "win win?" Could they help in development of higher rated teammates?
Sorry for being long-winded. Long time reader, first time forum MGoBoard thread creator.
Everyone needs to be motivated. There are few who possess such an internal drive that they start themselves up all the time (clearly, JH is looking for such men). But in as large a group as a college football team, there are always guys who need to be provided extra motivation. This is what leadership is about. I do think that recruiting guys who feel grateful to be on the team, rather than entitled, is likely to bring a competitive spirit and an edge of ferocity than hopefully will infect the entire squad. Dare I say, Rudy... even though these Harbaugh recruits are far from being Rudys. (And Rudy was off-side, but that's another discussion.)
I think part of it is work ethic. He wants guys that will work hard to improve. They might not start but they'll push because of how they work. It's not like these guys are no talent bum who got a mercy scholarship, they obviosly can play football. How often do you say wow, how did this guy end up at Buffalo, Miami Ohio, North Dakaota State, Western Michigan or a hundred other schools?
We need hungry football players who have the skills and drive to improve. Jordan Kovacs ( a fan favorite around here) was more than likely a two star recruit if that out of high school. JJ Watt was a two star tight end, I'm just saying recruiting service stars dont mean the world. Yea it's cool to have the number one class full of four/ five star recruits but, I would like to see tough, hungry young men ready to work their asses off and win football games
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Harbaugh is not recruiting marginal players that bring nothing to the table but a work ethic and a chip on their shoulders. They are smart, superb atheletes that can project to a number of positions.
It's that positional ambiguity more than anything else that has them at 2/3 star status. For now.
Harbaugh has a plan to address their positional development.
Maybe they are the only guys he can get to sign up since he took away the video games in the locker room.
I agree that this is overanalyzing, but it's the off-season. What else are we supposed to do?
Seriously though, I find myself wondering if Harbaugh and staff are taking another sometimes utilized recruiting strategy to an extreme: signing the less heralded HS teammates of 5 star recruits that are still a year or 2 out. Ace has given numerous examples in the recruiting writeups of Harbaugh offering less heralded kids who are HS teammates of the blue chip guys. If the staff believes they can coach a kid up (which no doubt, they do), why not take a flyer on a "project," with hopes that his friend (the top 50 recruit) will want to play with him in a year or 2?
/overanalysis
It wouldn't be worth spending a scholly on a player you otherwise wouldn't offer just because of the hope that one of his teammates will want to join him. As others can chronicle better than I, these so-called "package deals" are frequently talked about but rarely realized. You spend precious scholarships on those players who will most help your team based on what you expect their individual contributions will be. Period. (Note: I leave room for things like character, leadership, academics, etc., in the term "contributions")
Why does everyone think Harbaugh is the only person making these offers? All of the coaches are obviously on board.
a madman.
But he's our madman, and he's crazy enough to pull it off successfully!
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2 star, 3 star, who cares? All of the 2 stars we picked up will get bumped up to 3 stars anyways simply because they committed to Harbaugh and Michigan.
Want to make a bet on how many will remain 2*s when the final rankings are done?
Two stars at this point is simply a default for players that haven't been heavily evaluated. People are getting bent out of shape over it, but all that is happening is that Harbaugh is finding and evaluating guys well ahead of the services.
Once the services catch up they will almost all move up. I doubt we end up with more than 1-2 two stars in our final class.
It is impossible for Harbaugh to wind up with a 2-star on NSD. Everyone he recruits will get Har-bumped to at least a 3-star.
The only way he can wind up with a 2-star on NSD is to recruit a punter.
Hall's Mentholyptus - Not Even Once.
Look at the positions we are taking these lower rated recruits at. Do we have a bunch of highly rated SDEs, CBs or safeties that are likely to come here? MSU grabbed King and Robertson so might as well take Weaver if the coaches like him and we have room for him and Kareem. Hill was probably our best bet at a high ranked CB. We lost him to PSU so why not take Richardson if the coaches like him. You will notice that we don't seem to be offering a lot of lower rated OL or WRs, possibly because the coaches like our chances with some higher rated ones.
This class is bound to end up with some 3 stars in it. Coaches are possibly just making sure they are getting first dibs on the 3 stars instead of scrambling for whoever is left in January.
People forget OSU had 12 3*s last year. They took 27 kids. We complain about oversigning, but we'll be around 27 this year. It's freaking Harbaugh, he knows what he's doing. I think he has your mindset OP. Why wait untill Janurary to fill your board with crappy plan Cs and D, when you can scout underrated kids now, then sign all the 4 and 5 stars, and watch the 2* D end turn into a 3 or 4*
...I post this (now updated to include 2015 classes):
OSU over the last 4 recruting cycles (per 247): 26 + 28 + 28 + 27 = 109.
Michigan over the last 4 recruiting cycles (per 247): 25 + 28 + 16 + 14 = 83.
That is a 26 player advantage. Oversigning is not the only reason that OSU has been so good lately. But it is one of the reasons.
when I see the 2* 3* guys come in I rub my head and think, really ah cmon?!?
Then I remember Harbaugh! and that we are very, very high on a lot of 4/5 star recruits of note and they usually decide later in the year. And the guys we signed have not even played their senior seasons yet. It remonds me of Hoke's recruits that would drop in ratings cause he would sign early 4* s that would drop. It's just cruitin relax Mattison has gold gold sunglasses and Harbs! drinks whole milk.
In Harbs! I trust.
If only Hoke had commented differently regarding the MSU stake incident, that username could have been created. I agree wholeheartedly that it would in fact, be a a much cooler name and make everything I have to say more important.
The answer to your question is no. Harbaugh is not recruiting a bunch of crappy players as part of some roundabout scheme to motivate the non-crappy players.
Harbaugh is recruiting guys that he likes for one reason or another and that he thinks can play football for Michigan and doesn't give one iota about where the recruiting services rank them or when the recruiting services might get around to evaluating them properly.
Congrats to Da Bears!!
I believe what Harbaugh is doing is building a base of hard working kids. So when some of these 5* come they have no choice but to buy into the hard work attitude and not expect coddling etc. This class to me so far looks like a building block base on which the rest of the house will be built.
Zero 2016 guys have signed. In addition, if this chart is to be trusted, we have 15 redshirt juniors on the team this upcoming year who will have had four years of scholarships. That means we have 29 available scholarships, not 14. Some of those guys are starters or contributors and will certainly receive a fifth year, but some will not. Some may opt for grad year transfer anyway. A firm handshake after four years is not the same as oversigning and then dumping a guy in year two because "medical" or "team rules violation".
Then, yes, there will be normal attrition. If the numbers don't work on signing day, be concerned. Now, not so much.
Don't apologize for posts. If you think you need to apologize, then don't post.
Is Harbaugh turning down four and five star kids, or is this what he's ending up with? I think it's more the second.
That said, we have to remember he was hired just six months ago and his staff was assembled even later. The recruiting isn't stellar, but I think it has more to do with the limited amount of time they've had, as well as some of the luster being taken off the program the last few years.
Recruiting is fickle. And it's much like the cute girl in school that is under the radar. She starts dating one of the popular guys in school and all of the sudden she goes from "cute" to "hot". Is she still the same girl? YES
Point is, these supposed lesser guys will soon rise in the recruiting rankings because UofM has offered. The SAME kid will go from a 2 to a 3-4, and 3's to a 4. Perception is reality.
Let the staff do their job. Some of the greatest minds in the game are not just going to let Harbaugh spend all the scholarships on no-names. Let the process play out, the Wolverines haven't even played a game under Harbaugh yet! Harbaugh has more fire and passion than Van Earl Wright doing highlights! What he's done with San Diego, Stanford, and SF should give him the benefit of the doubt.
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How about the real question...do we want a guy that can't develop 4 & 5 star recruits or a guy that gets 2's & 3's to overachieve?
Neither.
I want a guy that CAN develop 4 & 5 star recruits. THAT is what wins national championships.
This is Michigan, you shouldn't have to choose one or the other.
The guys that are winning National Championships can and need to be able to do both.
Someone posed here earlier that we are potentially witnessing a social experiment play out here. Maybe...just MAYBE...JH really is finding hard-nosed kids with 'always-on' mentality whose coaches laud as the hardest workers on their team...the last guy in the weight room...always in the film room...the 'he really wants it' kind of guys that others look up to...and is actually STEALING future Pro-Bowlers from the smaller schools!
And...MAYBE...in that equation he is taking into account that he is looking to build a DYNASTY here with a mix of highly sought after kids along with these kids who will run through brick walls to achieve success! And these kids will also be the steadying force behind that dynasty because they will be at UM for 5 years...establishing and passing forward a new tradition.
Anyhow...just a thought!
Yes, and this is the genius of the satellite camps -- Harbaugh and his whole staff get to see their work ethic, toughness, and teachability in person. It seems that these are characteristics he is valuing to differentiate between physically talented kids.
Why the recruiting freak out?
Why do we have this tone of "Trust Harbaugh, he knows how to work with an under-talented class and turn them into something functional.", as if he were Pat Fitzgerald?
Folks, we already have the #9 class in the country. This class isn't a "project". It's ready to go out there and kick some asses.
And everyone we are still waiting on that is leaning toward Michigan is rated higher than who we already have. The class ranking will only go up from here.
So what exactly is it that are we fretting about, style points?
than having the #1 ranked class in the country is unacceptable to some people. Although I will admit it chaps my ass just a little to see MSU ranked higher than we are, even in June.
I think we end up with a top 5 class on signing day. A lot of highly rated guys are going to jump on the Harbaugh train this fall.
A top 5 class would be a stunning accomplishment this year. I'd be happy with even top 10. I do think we'll pass MSU, for what it's worth.
By any measure - stars, in-person scouting, under-the-radar guys, over-the-radar guys, what have you - Harbaugh is getting it done. It will only get better from here. Life is good.
A couple things to keep in mind when assessing M's 2016 recruiting class and especially its standing relative to the accursed Spartans:
First, class rankings seem largely number-dependent; the more recruits in the class, the higher the ranking, given a 4 and three-star distribution similar to a smaller class. Note that the latest Rivals rankings show M only three spots below MSU, the difference largely because MSU has 19 commits to M's 16. And those numbers, stars, and ultimate recruiting rank are all subject to considerable change.
Second, as others have pointed out, these recruits have another year of high school ball. That means a chance to add another star to their resumes. If the coaches have selected wisely, this will happen and the recuiting class rank will rise accordingly.
Have patience, and place your faith in the Man and His disciples, er, his coaching staff!
1) the NR, 2 and 3* guys will probably all end up as 3 and 4* players by signing day (Michigan bump, other offers, other camp performances...)
2) all programs take generic 3* guys. They are the "program builders" and at least Harbaugh was able to coach the kids for a day before taking a chance on them.
You know that quote from Tommy Boy --> "I can get a good look at a T-Bone by sticking my head up a bull's ass but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it" ?
Harbaugh is the guy who is going to stick his head up the bull's ass. And that's a good thing.
None of this stems from concern for me. I know there is a lot of rubbish on the board about it though. This was more of an expansion on the whole, "trust in the Harbaugh," concept.
The rankings are of no concern to me. And I assume it is the same way for our coaches. They know what they want, and will offer when they see it. I don't know nearly enough about football to think I know better than they do. I have questioned zero of their choices thus far. Just exploring some levels maaaaaaan.
Harbaugh is imparting his culture into the program. I'm not really focused on star ratings right now.