If You Had to Guess Right Now, Does Meyer Stay, Suspend, or Terminate?
Mates,
Despite some severely limited information (OSU is turtleing, for obvious reasons), we've had some great posts today about background information, FOIA denials, AD reactions and some fairly erudite comments about the issue. Simple Question, with a follow up:
Does Meyer stay at ohio, stay and get suspended, or get let go? And no matter your answer, why?
XM
You think he would have changed his alleged behavior if he no longer worked for Ohio State? That he would no longer have contact with his wife? That he would stop living at his own house?
It doesn't work like that. To accomplish these things, Courtney Smith would have to take legal action of some kind (ie, pressing charges, or filing for divorce).
Pretty sure the whole deal is, in the grand scheme of them exploiting young men for huge profit, they have a huge responsibility to keep assholes like Zach Smith away from impressionable young minds .......
..........much less, let his approval be a important stepping stone to the only fucking reason they're "playing school" anyway and that's getting to the NFL.
I wonder how many FLA/OSU WRs agreed with Zach when he said that, sometimes, like Wayne Brady, you're "gunna have to choke a bitch" all to get a couple extra reps in practice?
August 5th, 2018 at 10:57 AM ^
Sifting through all the meandering garbage you've strewn about, I agree that if the allegations are accurate, the university has a responsibility to keep people like Zach Smith away from their students, for a variety of reasons; and as such, the university needs to provide an explanation as to why those responsible for keeping him on staff (Meyer, the athletic department, human resources, etc) didn't feel the need to take such precautions. For example, I don't know if the lack of criminal charges is sufficient justification. But that's a different issue.from what I was discussing.
lol this edgy kid
So, what are you arguing? Meyer continued Zach Smith's employment at Ohio State. Through multiple contracts even after becoming aware of domestic abuse allegations. Presumably, so long as his behavior went unpunished, it enabled him to maintain behavior that didn't get him fired. which even he acknowledged on Friday. And this was confirmed by texts forwarded to Brett McMurphy from Courtney Smith.
So, Smith lied just as Meyer lied about what he knew three years ago. Laws only protect people when they are properly enforced and action is taken.
From that standpoint, Meyer was his enabler, and by extension the university for which Meyer had a requirement to report such behavior to protect it from certain liability stemming from the trust given him by the school in his hiring decisions.
Meyer is Ohio State while serving its interests. He runs the football program, the venues under his control, and the hiring of people that Ohio State pays to work for him. Whatever Smith does reflects on Meyer and the school, especially when it's culturally negative.
You are saying the university isn't to blame for making this thing worse. Well, it will if the facts eventually show they ignored even circumstantial evidence of domestic problems reported based on calls made by Smith's wife to authorities and others. I mean even intervention as a condition of employment would seem more compelling than a verbal firing threat if the allegations were verified.
A campus is made up of people; buildings are not institutions. The people who house and work in them are. They are only responsible when they can enforce what is known and act accordingly. If Meyer and or Gene Smith failed to act responsibly, then they are to blame. If higher ups knew and failed to respond, then they are to blame as well. No matter what, they all represent Ohio State.
And so, whatever results, this ends poorly from a public relations POV. You can take the high road or the low road. It's all about damage control from here on out.
August 5th, 2018 at 11:38 PM ^
Well, the court case I cited above dispels pretty much your entire argument, for the reasons I gave.
What am I arguing? There are issues that must be explained, just not the ones you are trying to raise. I believe Ohio State's investigative panel can get to the bottom of this relatively quickly, and provide these answers. We must be vigilant to be sure they do.
August 5th, 2018 at 12:57 PM ^
I think TOSU administration let Meyer take the heat unfairly. IF, the AD Gene Smith was told by Meyer of the 2015 allegation which resulted in no arrest. It's been said that the powell police department was summoned to the Smith residence 90 times and quit responding to their frivolous calls without any arrests. It's possible Zach Smith is an abuser and it's also possible the wife is a total vindictive nut job. And why didn't this story attract 60 minutes, 20/20, espn, just a unemployed kournalist,lol? Bizarre, councidence? Maybe Smith kept his job after the 2015 incident because no one believed the allegations, including the police and the OSU administration. I know bitter rivals live seeing bad things happening to their rival, i just think domestic violence situations shouldn't be one of them. If I were Meyer and the investigation results puts this on those above Meyer and he is exonerated of any wrongdoing. I'd tell OSU to pound sand and let my agent interview the long line of suitors that will line up for his services. Fuck the off-season already. Bring on football baby!!!!
Me too.
Please take this sort of bs apologism/rationalization back to 11W.
August 5th, 2018 at 10:53 AM ^
After reading your post above, I bet this has been you for the past few days.......covers ears with index fingers lalalalalalalala. I am still waiting to hear a Buckeye supporter to come out and speak the truth that everyone who is not a Buckeye fan knows about them.....we want to win at all cost.
1/3 seems low
Since there's a lot of bits and pieces of information but no full stories, osu is finding what they can to piece things together their way. Urban stays. But who knows... They've let go their best 2 coaches before...
I say he will get 3 game suspension and will be back.
Assuming more and more things slowly come out about how this (and potentially other situations) were handled, I expect him to resign in about 2-3 weeks with a full apology for his "lack of follow up" in regards to his reporting things to the necessary channels.
I don't for a second think he will believe in what he is saying but will read the writing on the wall realizing that course of action would be the fastest way for him to be rehired somewhere else.
Stay or go, this won’t drag out for 2-3 weeks IMO. I don’t think it makes it through the next week either way.
He is a dead man walking. His plea via Twitter is so damn lame. Some pundits have likened it to a Hail Mary ... but that play occurs only if you have a chance to win the game. Urban is so far gone he should just take a knee ...
It's like a hail mary from your own 1 yard line... without anyone downfield
I’m making an Urban Meyer voodoo doll, so canned.
You're going to put the voodoo doll in a can?
I think if OSU called Meyer tonight to discuss the terms of his departure, he'd jump on it.
Agreed - President Drake is a hard-ass, he is an uber ethical guy with a PhD from Stanford. I think the OSU independent committee is out to terminate Meyer for cause and stiff him completely from any buyout money. That was the outcome for the marching band director who seems to keep litigating OSU into a total rat hole. President Drake suffers no fools.
Wouldn't president drake have known about this since he came on in 2014? I mean the police department knew about it, drake didnt? He knew, they all knew. So this is just as much on him as anyone else.
August 4th, 2018 at 10:07 PM ^
OSU has 40,000+ employees and a multi-billion dollar budget.. It's really hard to imagine their president micro managing to the point of being informed every time police investigate an allegation against an employee. More so when there's no arrest, no charges and no publicity. It's not like the campus police were involved either. This is some little suburban department.
August 5th, 2018 at 11:18 AM ^
I don't think he would have appointed independent committee members to investigate the situation if he new about it all along. That just doesn't connect unless he has them all in his pocket. But that is not Drake's profile - check him out. Like a saint he is so clean and ethical. Someone hired him to clean up their image and national profile, so I think Urban is going down and not softly with some cushy buyout. Unethical behavior is not part of the new OSU reputation ... at least according to President Drake. We will see if he succumbs to the pitchforks.
Impress me, President Drake.
Make a reasonable investigation, weigh the evidence rationally, present your findings to the public, and act.
If you do this, I will respect you and your university somewhat more.
August 4th, 2018 at 10:29 PM ^
And I figured it'd be Schiano to take the spot, but after reading this about Draje, how could he promote Schiano? The media would relive Schiano knowing about Sandusky and how a vocal Tennessee fanbase burned his ass...and I confess, at the time I didn't fully appreciate that uproar.
August 4th, 2018 at 10:59 PM ^
Exactly. They made a safe pick rather than one of the assistants with HC experience. That wasn't a football decision. It was a PR move and a wise one. Shows their focus.
I still say two games (they open with Oregon State and Rutgers, then they get TCU) because I'm relentlessly cynical. The fans seem to have flipped from being split to wholly behind him because of that statement.
Terminated, soon
I'm going with a suspension (3-4 games) the AD and Meyer's wife each lose their jobs and take the fall.
Suspension makes no sense. They either say he's clean or they can him.
Firing Shelley and not Urban for the same offense would be an unbelievably brutal PR move. People would not easily forgive or forget that. It would be tough for Urban to live down too.
We’re way past the point of a suspension. He’s gone by Monday morning. Only question is if Gene Smith goes too. Hopefully he does. Never liked that guy or that E. Gordon Gee phuckface.
Gordon Gee is a cartoon character, looking at him cracks me up
Suspended 4 to 6 games
He will get suspended and Gene Smith will get fired. OSU will feel they took care of the issue since UM said he reported the incident. They will continue going on as a win at all cost program.
Suspension for what ? He enabled a staff member to be a wife abuser and torment a women unethically for 9+ years. President Drake and the committee will swiftly cut Urban's nads off soon, very soon. He is going to get gutted, with no buyout. President Drake is a hard ass, uber ethical guy. Just wait and see.
If he reported it as required, then there's a record of an investigation, and he's fine. If there's no record, then he didn't report it and he gone. There's no middle ground where he sorta-reported-it-sorta-didn't that would allow for a suspension to make sense.
I agree with this. But it's not clear what Meyer is claiming his supposed report consisted of. If he made the report by email or filed some kind of form or something, then there absolutely should be a record. But what if he claims he reported it by phone? Then there's only a record if the person he spoke with made one. Even if the policy requires a written report, now we're talking about more of a technical violation (reporting by phone, rather than in writing). And, of course, the big questions then would be about whether that phone call was ever even made--and if so, to whom and what exactly was said.
If he reports by phone, the Title IX office writes a memo about the phone conversation, opens a file, and sends an investigator to interview Meyer and get his statement down on paper and signed. No memo, no file, no written statement = Meyer never called. There is absolutely no way he could credibly have reported by phone and left no traces of it.
August 5th, 2018 at 11:27 AM ^
He will claim he misunderstood the policy and thought reporting to the AD was what he was supposed to do......which it seems like he did actually do that much. He'll get suspended 6 games for flubbing the reporting policy and the AD will be fired.
And OSU will continue to win at all costs.....
Nothing is going to happen to him. Much like dicktonio and izzo.
August 4th, 2018 at 10:38 PM ^
Two different cases. MSU is trying to protect it’s fragile brand which relies heavily on Izzo and Dantonio. OSU has a strong brand that is bigger than Urban Liar and they will be fine without him. They are a destination school for coaches, not so for MSU.
i think he is gone. Fired or by resignation, but gone.
I hope you're right. I was just thinking, in terms of offenses, that the scandals are similar in severity and those two bafoons were not penalized at all. I do agree with your statement about each institution's stature. My gut tells me if he was getting fired it would have happened already.
At first I thought they were going to find a way to save him.
After realizing that the statement last night came from him - not OSU and him together as I initially thought - and after reading everything else, McMurphy's anonymous AD comments, etc. - I now think that he is probably gone.
Still a chance he stays. I don't want to underestimate OSU's capacity for skullduggery. But if I had to put a number on it, now I'd bet there's only a 15-20% chance he stays.
August 4th, 2018 at 10:23 PM ^
This decision comes down to the president and his own standing in the world he lives in regardless of the social circumstances which are completely pitted against firing. So he either goes along and allows Ohio State to become a public punching bag of integrity lost or he does the right thing and fires this coach.
If he does that, fires Meyer, then he might as well quit. If he doesn't fire him, if he allows him to dangle with the local public backing and the rest of the world casting aspersion, he is Donald Trump on impeachment watch led down the road by the implorables, and he is gone anyway. Either way, he is essentially fucked.
A moment of truth for President Drake. Maybe he is the one to start changing the institutional culture around Ohio State University.
Remember President Karen Holbrooke getting replaced by E. Gordon Gee in 2007 for not being gung ho about rioting in Columbus?
If I had to guess I would say that they move on from him. I'm probably 70/30. With each new slow drip of info I think of fewer ways he could make it through.
I think they move on because they know if they don't this will be brought up all the time. It seems like this is the first time people are actually looking into and talking about how bad his time at FL was. He got a free pass on the national stage until now, IMO.
I could be way off here, but that statement yesterday in no way puts him or OSU in a better place, and indeed, it throws another person - his boss, in fact - under a fleet of buses. I don't know how he stays ultimately. That statement almost seemed like a prelude to a buyout of some kind.
That's exactly what I'm thinking. It has a ring of unilateralism. He is taking matters into his own hands because at this point he has no other options. He's gone and he is looking out for his retirement fund.