Football Discussion: Team with more talent: 2016 or 2018?

2016 had an offense. 2018 is TBD. While the WR in 2018 seem promising, we had 3 NFL draft pick WR and TE. The offensive line had Cole, Magnuson and started with Newsome. Most of 2018 RBs were also on the 2016 team.  Defense for 2018 may be slightly better, but There is very little proven talent on the O line or pass catchers. (ie 8 of 11 spots). Much of it will pan out, but some of it won't.

This team, but 2016 was older.  Our offense is talented, but still young.  The defense is also talented and a little older, but most are jrs whereas most of the talent in 2016 was srs and RSsrs.

In terms of raw upside over college careers, I'd say 2018. In terms of developed skills, I'd say 2016. Lots of guys on this team, particularly on offense, probably have a ways to go before they develop their peak skills. 

But at many positions, I think the 2018 roster has a higher ceiling. On offense:

• DJB and Black will eventually be better than Darboh and Chesson
• Patterson will be better than Speight this year
• Higdon and junior Evans are already better than Smith and freshman Evans
• The 2018 OL will eventually be better than the 2016 OL
• TE is the onlyonly position where I think our top player in 2016 (Butt) finished his career better than anyone on our current roster will finish their careers

On defense:

• Current DL may not end up as good as the 2016 DL
• Linebackers are already better than the 2016 LBs
• Safeties probably a wash
• CBs close but I think will end up better than 2016 CBs
• Unpopular opinion, perhaps, but I think K. Hudson will end up better than Peppers was

 

You asked which has more talent. I see a lot of people posting about experience. Experience and talent aren't the same thing. 2018 has more talent. There are 5 guys who could be 1st round picks. How many first round picks did the 2016 team have? 2018 is the better team and more talented.

Also Peppers was a good player for Michigan, but Hudson in 2018 will be a better Viper than Peppers was. Plus, DPJ is a better returner in 2018 than Peppers was in 2016. DPJ with the ball in his hand is almost as dynamic as Peppers and DPJ has an extra gear on Peppers. I'm not knocking Peppers at all, just laying out facts. Which position in 2016 would you say was better than the current team is about to put out?

Patterson is TBD but if he's as good as advertised then the offense will be better than 2016.  I have faith that DPJ et al will be better than Darboh and Chesson.  2016 Butt is tough to beat though.  RB is better in 2018.  For defense the 2018 is young but more talented.  The DL was outstanding in 2016 but I think this season's group has a good chance to be the best we've had in a long time.  2018 LB's are the best we've had in many years.  2018 secondary is probably a half step behind 2016 mainly because of Lewis.

 

Overall I give the nod to 2018.

hang 78 points on Rutgers and 49 points on Penn State again.   

The football gods also owe us an OT win over OSU.

Patterson (hopefully) >> Speight

Running backs >> Younger Backs 
Older Evans and Higdon, plus hopefully the emergence of one of the younger guys

Daboh/Chesson > DPJ & Black 
At least at the beginning of the season I give the edge to the seniors, but I expect this to change. 

Magnuson/Braden >> Our starting tackles.
They weren't elite, but they were servicable, which unfortunately is more than we can say right now. 

Bredeson-Ruiz-Onwenu > Kalis-Cole-Bredeson
Three potential all-big-ten caliber players on the interior (although likely next year is when we'll truly have an elite inside line) 

Butt > Our tight ends now
We have some great tight ends, but none nearly as complete as Butt. We have a deeper stable now though

 

Charlton == Winovich
Tough call, but going with Charlton for his elite run defense. 

Dwumfor << Glasgow
Until Dwumfor actually shows this elite talent he has to be considered a big step down from Glasgow, who was elite as a nose tackle. 

Hurst > Solomon 
Sophomore Hurst was already a monster. Solomon has flashed some potential, but still has to earn an equals sign. 

Gary > Wormley
It's easy to forget it, but Wormley was absolutely elite on our D-line. However,  Gary should have much more pass-rushing success. Sky's the limit for him. 

Lewis/Stribling = Hill/Long 
Lewis is the best of the four, but I'd take Hill and Long over Stribling, as they are stronger in run support and were as elite in coverage last season .

Peppers >> Hudson
I know some people disagree with this, but I find that too optimistic. Peppers shut down a side of the field in a way that Hudson doesn't have the speed to be able to do. Hudson's very good, but Peppers was a gamechanger. 

Bush/LinebackerX == Gedeon/McCray
Bush is likely the best of the four, but Gedeon and McCray were both very solid (if exploitable). Until our last linebacker emerges, I can't give 2018 the nod. 

Hill/Thomas > Metellus/Kinnel
Not much to say here. 

 

In all, that gives me three more > in favor of 2016, which passes the eye test to me. However, that's my preseason ranking, and I expect the 2018 team to improve considerably. By the end of the season, I expect every unit except the tackles (sigh), and likely the D-Line to be better than 2016. 

Too many question marks to give 2018 the nod before the season, but they have the potential to exceed 2016 at a bunch of postions depending on how guys perform.  The theme across the board is the players are more athletic but younger.  2016 was a lot of 4th and 5th year players, 2018 will be mostly 2nd and 3rd year guys.  But QB, WR, TE, DE, S, and CB are all position groups that could be better while RB and LB are already better.  Unlikely that DT will be better because Solomon and Dwumfour are new starters.  And OL is arguably already better at run blocking but is unlikely to pass block as well unless Wariner exceeds the hype.

Play a game first.

Loads of 1st/2nd round level talent on the team.  2016 was a phenomenal collection of talent, but this team has more talent overall - particularly at the high end.  With the daunting schedule, disappointing 2017 season, and recent media slant against Michigan, it feels like we may be getting overlooked nationally.  I say, good - this team has the chance to be elite, and I have every hope and expectation that they will reach that level.  I am unabashedly optimistic about the prospects of the 2018 Football Wolverines.  

Hands down. Just look at each position group (maybe 2016 had a deeper d-line and Peppers was generational at viper, but the balance leans towards 2018). The coaching difference is what I’m looking at the most. Can they pull together a good oline? Will the special teams be good (2016 was great)? Will they be able to put together good offensive game plans? I think the 2016 schedule was actually pretty hard. We’ll know they’re elite if they’re blowing out teams like in 2016. That’s the sign.

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2018 has more talent. 2016 had more experience and our veteran WR really helped out Wilton. I hope the younger kids start performing up to their talent levels, especially on offense. I like having probably the best defense in the B1G. This will keep us close in the tough games and if our offense can score more points we will be in the running for B1G champions.

I think this question might depend the most on the OL and the quality of its coaching. And not whether Warriner is objectively excellent at it. We already know he's one of the nation's select best at coaching the line (if left to only coach the line). So he'll get us there eventually. Getting there in one season, though, probably requires that Drevno had somehow become a bad coach or actively toxic behind the scenes at Michigan. Absent that, it would be difficult to guarantee an instant leap. And without an instant OL leap, I think the rosters are too close to call.

2016. Next Question

2016 and it’s not even close

I believe the 2018 D is faster which should translate into better. 

Team speed is great for stopping big plays or stopping playes before they get started.  On the downside you can't let the O use it against you by over running and getting out of postion.  Always do YOUR assishment first when playing D.  

2018 is talented but none of that will matter if the offensive line fails to block a soul like in 2017.

There were really only two positions of major concern entering 2016: QB and LT. Speight proved to be serviceable with the weapons around him, and Newsome was our best OL until he got hurt. Going into this season both tackle positions are huge question marks. WR group is talented but super unproven. On defense both DT spots are pretty unproven, along with our safeties who have been spectacularly average in their careers. The potential is there for this team, but I am not going into this season with the confidence I had in 2016. The presumed huge improvement at QB is key and Higdon and Evans is much better than we had in 16. Throw in an OL that has proven to be great in run blocking and 3 TE’s who can make plays. We could have a very special season, but we need more question marks to be answered positively this year than 2 years ago to be in a position to go to Columbus for a shot at Indy.

2018 defense is as good or better at  8 or 9 /11 spots I would say.

My expectation is DEs are the best I've ever seen at Michigan. LB core should much better fit for Brown. 

Also, this is Brown's 3rd year vs his first year. I recall times in 2016 where half the defense was behind the QB. They flew around, but they weren't as sound as even last year. This year, they'll have the talent, depth, and now experience that all time great defenses have. 

I expect another gear from this defense that we've seen in 20 years.

Offense, I think this is the best RB grou we've had in forever. 

Last year WR play was bad, its a huge wild card this year. With better blocking and ceartainly better QB play, it could be below average to spectacular. I know DPJ is going to make a huge leap, but did Black develop at all? what about the other guys in his class. Should we forget about Mcdoom?

Obviously QB play is murky, but as we know backup QB is important and this year we'll have a good one.

Punter is a problem. Hate wasting opportunities for our D with crap punts.

Talent is better in 2018. We’ll see if they play better. They are still younger. The only guys that were clearly more talented than their 2018 counterparts were Peppers, Charlton, Braden, Magnuson, and Butt.

QB 2018

RB 2018

FB 2016

TE/WR Even  I mix these b/c I don't know what to do with guys like Gentry and especially Eubanks.  Two facts to keep in mind.  Only 4 receiver-types had any significant yards in 2016.  Perry was third of the non tight ends.  In additon, the combination of Gentry and McKeon were comparable to Butt in terms of yards, receptions and TDs.  

OL  2016, but if you could nearly guarantee competent tackles (just competent) I'd move to even or even 2018

DL 2016 because of depth

LBs 2018 BUT, holy cow look at Geddeon's production in 2016.  He was super underrated.  Still, he wasn't All American, which turns things.  This does assume a fairly high level of production by the 2018 Will.  McCray had his holes, but he also had good production and skills.

CBs 2018 out of strength going 1-4 including nickel CBs

Safeties 2016 .  2016 and 2017 production was similar other than a couple interceptions with 2016.  But, I think 2016 was better than 2017 in terms of holding down the big play.  I think here, though you could convince me with some natural improvements by Mettelus it could be even

K 2018 (hoping some of the inconsistencies are removed while the range remains)

p 2016

The other thing to keep in mind about 2018 is that there's a big difference b/n 2018 and 2016.  2016 was Don Brown's first year.  The 2018 crew grew up in his system.

 

It depends on the position. Qb maybe? Don’t know yet unless you are going off hype but I believe they will be better at qb. Wide-receiving core and tight-end was better in 16 until proven otherwise. O line don’t know yet. Hopefully it gets better as season progresses. The defense I believe 18 will be solid. Defense was not the issue in 16. I don’t know about more talented but it was more experienced in 16. So hopefully the offense can finally get it together with the talent they have in 18.

Shea > Speight Higdon> Smith Mason > Poggi/Hill Black > Darboh DPJ > Chesson McKeon Butt Gentry > Bunting (assume 2 TEs) Runyon Mags Onwenu = Kalis Ruiz Cole Bredeson > Braden Whomever Newsome Rashan > Wormley Solomon Glasgow Dwumfour Hurst/Godin Winivich Charlton Hudson > Peppers Bush > Gedeon Ross > McCray Hill JD Metellus Hill Kinnell > Thomas Long > Stribling Nordin = Allen Robbins Allen DPJ/Thomas Peppers/Chesson

Talent goes to '18, mostly because where a lot of the current players come from. (Ga, Fla)

 

But what '16 was able to do with an inexperienced QB to maximize their talent was incredible.

 

Here's hoping that '18 comes out ahead on both wins and highest ranking!