OT - Who would you vote for Most Overrated Player?
Slow day..but curious. Who do you think is the most overrated player in a sport? Maybe not the entire sport, perhaps by position?
Also/Or...most overrated/dissappointing player coming into or going out of Michigan in any sport?
Maybe overrated isn't the right word, but I had high expectations for for D. Terrell and Edwards heading into the NFL.
For transparency, this was inspired my opinion that Brett Favre is the most overrated player in NFL history.
If we're talking recent NBA, I'd go Melo. Dude has only made a conference championship once I believe and no finals. Hasn't done much of anything for anyone other than Boeheim.
No, Kobe is top 5.
His career is unequivocally less 'great' than Jordan, LeBron, Wilt, Kareem, and Duncan. And many others.
Even the most dominatn player on his team for 3 of his rings.
15?! Honestly, name 14 better players in the history of the game.
Darko Milicic
There's the classic example of "A million dollars of promise worth five cents on delivery."
But was Darko highly rated by anyone other than Joe Dumars?
It's always hard to keep one's criteria straight in lists like this, but looking at peak greatness, overall impact on game, longevity, and W/L success, I'd go with:
1) LeBron, 2) Jordan, 3) Wilt, 4) Kareem, 5) Duncan, 6) Magic, 7) Bird, 8) Dirk, 9) KG, 10) Admiral, 11) Hakeem, 12) KD, 13) Russell, 14) Barkley. EDIT: and Shaq
Some of these are obviously arguable, but there's a legit argument for all of them (and more) to be 'greater' than Kobe. Kobe was a volume scorer whose career eFG% was well south of .500, whose defensive impact was marginal, whose impact on his teammates was marginal, who never led the league in any advanced stat other than usage rate, and whose peak WS/48 was worse than every modern player on this list.
Your list became nonsense when you put David Robinson ahead of Hakeem.
The point is that both were better than Kobe
You can make an argument that Kobe had a better overall career than either, but the argument the other way is at least as strong. Both Robinson & Chuck had more dominant peaks and more career win shares, both were much better defenders, obviously better rebounders, and vastly more efficient scorers. The overall advanced stats point pretty unequivocally toward Chuck and Robinson. Obviously, advanced stats aren't everything, and Kobe has a bunch more rings. But if you just look at ability to impact a game during their respective primes, I'd put Kobe 3rd out of the 3
Barkley had one dominant year when he wasn't fat and then said 'screw that' and went back to being fat.
I only agree that 1,2, and 6 are better than Kobe. Hard to say about Wilt, Kareem and Oscar because it was so long ago and they mostly beat up on tiny white people (Kareem to a lesser extent).
That is...quite the list.
Wait, you're trying to say LeBron is the GOAT? He's in the running for most overrated player ever. Hands down GOAT is still Jordan, LeBron isn't even top 10. He's gotten more help from the refs than any player I've ever seen. If his game was called even, he'd have probably made a few all star teams but never won an MVP or a ring.
and probably more like top 8 or top 6 NBA players depending on what you take into account
I'm not sure I'd put him that low, but I agree wholeheartedly that he's not in the top 10. In fact, despite how celebrated he is, there's a fairly strong argument that Kobe was never the best player in the league.
There are absolutely not 15 players better than Kobe Bean Bryant!
Don't you have to be "rated" first before you can be overrated? I assumed the consensus on Brady Quinn the QB was that he sucked out loud. His broadcasting career is even worse.
Hot take: The NFL has never had as many good QBs as it does now.
By every available metric except YPA QBs were so much worse in the 80s and 90s, and YPA has stayed constant with much more volume, higher TD%. lower INT% and lower sack rate.
Changes in the rules don't come close to explaining the gap.
I don't think that post people really have much idea what they are talking about when it comes to NFL QBs, and that includes some of the coaches. Above in this thread, you have the take that there are so few great QBs in the NFL that Kirk Cousins should make $85 Billion Dollars per year because he can stand upright and this take that the league is just littered with amazing quarterbacks. I don't think either are true. This year, the team that won the Super Bowl did so with a plug and play backup for a starter who was supposed to be one of the best in the league.
Aaron Rodgers is annointed one of the best QBs of all time but he has won one Super Bowl like ten years ago and his team isn't any good. I watch somebody like Matt Ryan play and he looks literrally identical to the performance you would get from like 20 other QBs in the league. Players like Colin Kaepernick and super great game changers and the next thing you know they are doing backup duty. A QB like Dak Prescott is all of the sudden like this unbelieveable talent and then all of the sudden not in two years.
I watched Sam Darnold and Josh Rosen for two highly uninspiring years at USC and UCLA, respectively, where both seemingly drastically underacheived and frankly played pretty poorly and then get drafted top 5 because ...... QBs!
I think there is Tom Brady and then there is everybody else, and that certain teams get hot and go to the Super Bowl and then everybody is all over their QB as the next big thing. Tim f-ing Tebow won an NFL playoff game. It cannot be that hard.
would be, has offensive coaching evolved so much that it makes the quartebacks look better? Joe Montana said in an interview that he couldn't play in today's NFL, too fast and too complex. Now he's ND guy, so he's definitely smart enough, but he was considered to be the best until St. Thomas dethroned him.
Nick Foles had a 27/2 TD to Int ratio under CHIP KELLY! Isn't that enough? Also...if backing up was so easy, then why couldn't John O'K...nm.
To be clear: I'm saying most of the quarterbacks of old weren't any good, not that all the QBs now are amazing.
Just think of the original NFL Blitz roster from the halcyon quarterback days of 1997. Luminaries include Billy Joe Hobert, Erik Kramer, Tony Banks, Neil O'Donnell, Danny Kannell, Scott Foley, Bobby Hoying, Kent Graham, Stan Humphries and Scott Mitchell off the top of my head (yes this is why I chose the NFL Blitz year).
The floor is much higher now. The gap between the top guys and the bottom is still a wide one. I agree many NFL head coaches don't know anything about quarterbacks!
Also Cousins is the 2nd richest man in the world or whatever because Dan Snyder has no idea how to operate a football organization AND he can stand upright.
I had all of their football cards. I was going to correct you but then I remember the Saints Bobby Herbert was a different person, and retired earlier.
I really dislike Kirk Cousins. And maybe tomorrow I'll start a post about the people you irrationally dislike, or how long do you hate someone after he no longer plays against Michigan. But he got drafted here to DC, and between him and RG3, I disliked them both.
Now I think Kirk is a serviceable NFL qb. I think the market is dictating his value however, and not his ability.
That could be a great one.
Irrationally Disliked? That's easy:
The 1987 Minnesota Twins.
Tigers fans of a certain age will understand completely.
I'd definitely buy a Baseball Cards of Terrible NFL Starting QBs coffee table book if you're looking for a project.
Kirk is fine, though as a Giants fan I laughed at the stories about how Kirk said no to all of Jay Gruden's plays that don't pop a guy open by 5 yards. Definitely the market at play.
Sounds like good riddance if that's your squad. I don't think Alex Smith is much, if any, dropoff. Also you don't hate him!
Kenny Stabler? I am so old the likes of Humpries and Hobert never occurred to me.
Timberwolves version of Love appears long gone
Throughout the playoffs it's as if he has forgotten how to play basketball. He was downright painful to watch in Game 1.
LeBron's style and Love's game should mesh perfectly on paper, but it just never came together.
That is because Lebron is an arrogant prick. Great player, bigger douchebag.
In recent Big Ten ball: Connor Cook wasn't good. He was always a ginormous asshole. He was Hackenberg with a weaker arm and a better team around him.
Not all Stafford's fault but record v teams with winning records is dismal (5-46 before last season) and no playoff wins.
What would Brady look like on the Lions? Lions are where qb & coaches go to die. The organization suffers from a lack of leadership.
What would Brady look like on the Lions? Lions are where qb & coaches go to die. The organization suffers from a lack of leadership.
If you're a Lion's fan (or painfully watch them at least) and run down Stafford, you're either very young or have a short memory. He's easily the best Lion's QB since the 1950's.
Stafford's no Brady, but he's pretty damn good. Ask a Browns, Bills, Jets or Bears fan (among others) if he/she would be happy to have him.
If Stafford played for a better team/franchise, he'd be considered in the top group of QB's.
he doesnt have a great run game, He had one of the best WR and a good defense in 14' and still couldnt win a playoff game.