OT - Who would you vote for Most Overrated Player?
Slow day..but curious. Who do you think is the most overrated player in a sport? Maybe not the entire sport, perhaps by position?
Also/Or...most overrated/dissappointing player coming into or going out of Michigan in any sport?
Maybe overrated isn't the right word, but I had high expectations for for D. Terrell and Edwards heading into the NFL.
For transparency, this was inspired my opinion that Brett Favre is the most overrated player in NFL history.
The NFL game is much different than college. While QB is still the most important position on the field, they can't completely take over the game in the same way. That is why you see so many great college QB's flame out in the NFL. Matthew Stafford has been great in spite of an organization who has a revolving door of coaches and a history of ineptitude when assembling a team.
Way more upvotes.
I think he could get the job done with a good team around him. Not many QB's winning playoff games with the Lion's roster.
I bet the dude would have looked amazing in Minnesota last year.
It's always funny to be (as a fan of another NFL team) to see the Lions FINALLY have their franchise QB and a ton of them just hate on him. Maybe look at some of the crummy teams that he's been on.
I assure you, if the Lions want to get rid of Stafford there are 15-20 NFL teams who would take him off your hands
Can we also talk about how Barry Sanders went 1-6 in playoff games during his career? I mean, that guy was clearly about the individual stats and SOO overrated as a team player, amirite?
/s
He was just great at a position that you don't want to rely that heavily on in the NFL if you're going to be any good as a team. But the Lions had to, because they never had a QB worth spit while Sanders was there.
His offensive arsenal was as polished as any I've seen, and he won some rings on some great teams. But a lot of people think he's in the conversation for GOAT, and I don't think he's anywhere near. In terms of overall impact on the game, peak dominance, and longevity of greatness, I just think it's too easy to name guys that are clearly better (Jordan, Bron, Kareem, Wilt, Duncan, etc.), with more who are likely to surpass him by the end of their careers (Steph, KD, Harden, etc.).
Steph & Harden will not surpass Kobe at any point. Steph just turned 30 and plays on an artificially constructed team while Harden is no where near as talented as Kobe.
Steph and Harden have both been playing better basketball over the last 2-3 years than Kobe ever played in his life -- comparably prolific and much more efficient scorers, much better playmakers and distributers, and comparable defenders. Longevity matters in these sorts of ranking exercises, so I'll hold off on saying that either is 'greater', but their primes are absolutely better.
And you've got to be kidding me with the Harden-Kobe talent comparison. Harden's jumper isn't as picturesque, but he's *much* better at getting clean looks, and his passing ability is on a whole nother level
Man come on. Get off Kobe. Dude won 2 titles in the era of the big three when his second option was Andrew Bynum a lot of games because Gasol would disappear. He took the 2006 La Lakers to the playoffs in the western conference with a starting line up of Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, Lamar Odom, and Stanislav Medvedenko.
His rings are the most persuasive argument in Kobe's favor, and don't get me wrong: Kobe was great. But he by no means is a top-5 player, and he's not in my top 10. That many people assume he's in the conversation for GOAT is why he's easily one of the most overrated players in basketball to me
(and let's not pretend that he was dragging trash to his last two rings -- prime Gasol, Odom, Ariza/Artest, and not-yet-broken Bynum is a more than solid supporting cast)
Russ Westbrook. He's already proven you can't win with him as your best player, let alone as your second best player.
Allen Iverson? Seriously...very good, but I don't know that he made his teammates better. And outside of Lebron's first team with the Cavs, I don't know if anyone has taken more garbage to the Finals on his back. Still not sure he was as good as everyone always says...
I also mentioned Iverson above. I've seen some great overrated names on this list. We could easily put together a starting 5.
Iverson
Kobe
Pippen
Carmelo
Love
Familiarity breeds contempt. I've lived in LA for 20+ years, basically overlapping the Kobe era. I've seen a lot of his games. He's a top 50 player, but no way is he top 5. Part of my disdain for him is that I consider him to be the poster-child for the hero-ball style of play.
Stats that bother me about him: 0.329 Three point percentage on 4.1 per game. 4.7 to 3 assist to turnover ratio. I don't like LeBron, but he and Kobe were the top 2 guys trying to replace Jordan. LeBron averages 7.2 assists per game.
could you not also argue that offenses, defenses, and scoring, refereeing and rule changes are also somewhat of a completely different game as well in Kobe's versus LeBron's prime eras?
Statistics can be enlightening, but they can also be deployed in lieu of lengthy qualitative dicussion
Kobe has only been a (barely) better than a 0.500 eFG% shooter 4 times in a 19-season career (not counting the '13 season when he shot poorly over 6 games). His stroke was beautiful, but he was just never that efficient. Likewise with his 3-point shot: he hit at .383 in '02, but he was .250 the year before and .327 the year after. There was never a prime during which he was a consistently better than average 3pt shooter.
Which is all not to say that he wasn't great. But he was a relatively one-dimensional player compared to other greats, and he wasn't nearly as good at that one dimension as a lot of people seem to remember.
I think Jordan is in the top 50 all time.
got all the calls v. the Pistons in the playoffs that year too.
Interesting.
I think Iverson is definitely a candidate. Carmelo and Love I disagree on. I don't think the average NBA fan thinks they are top 10-15 players. I think most people realize both are flawed and limited players.
I am ambivalent on Pippen.
Kobe I disagree on. He won 2 championships as the best guy on his team. That is hard to do. He won 3 as the 1A player. I agree that his game would not fit in with the modern NBA, but you can't really argue with his playoff success.
I logged in just to say Scottie Pippen. Obviously a great athlete and adept at being the second banana, but I never thought he deserved a spot on the Dream Team.
His reputation is enhanced dramatically by his proximity to Jordan.
gets hated on more than anybody but the year that MJ retired, Pippen took the Bulls team to 55-27 record and went to Eastern Conference Semi-Finals. He averaged 22 ppg, 8.7 rpg, 5.6 apg, 2.9 spg while shooting close to 50% as the #1 option and a defensive stopper. The next year, he averaged pretty much the same thing before MJ came back at the end of the season.
He deserved a spot on the Dream Team, no question.
came within a debacle (team debacle) of a 4th quarter in LA in Game 7 of the Western Conference Finals of dethroning the Lakers before they got started (2000).
Pippen? For one, I dont think hes highly rated enough to be overrated, but for two, he's one of the best defensive players in history and one of the first players to thrive in the modern point forward position.
There are other variable at play for sure but Jordan's teams were kinda ass without Pippen while Pippen did pretty darn well during Jordan's baseball career.
Your points are at odds, it seems. So hes not that good, but no one except bron has been able to put a team on his back like he did?
Dwight Howard was overrated.
with this as well. Also think the Dak Prescott annointing is a little premature. Lot of rookie qb's do well. Once you get tape on them though...he is following the Russell Wilson™ path to quarterbacking success. Strong running game, safe passing game, profit. Except Russell had an exceptional defense.
He's likely overpaid, but that's how free agent QB's get paid.
I think most people would rate him near the middle of the league, which, IDK, sounds rightish.
Dude hasn't lost a game.
Deshaun Watson is WAY more hyped and higher rated with < 1/2 a year sample size.
I think JG is probably decent, just by the fact that Belichick reportedly wanted to keep him so badly.
Then again, no one knows shit about this kid yet, so you may be right. :-)
No, he was over-measured
Also Josh Allen. I have no clue how this guy was drafted in the top 10. How does anyone think somoene who hasn't completed above 50% of their throws in any level is somehow going to be an accurate QB in the NFL? I would put down good money that he will bust. If anyone knows where I can make such a bet, let me know please.
I think Zion Williamson is going to bust. He can jump, but is only 6'6, weighs in at 272 and doesn't have a jump shot according to scouts at the Olympic camp. He doesn't have very long arms either nor a reliable post up game. Not sure what he offers, while unique will translate to the NBA.
Now if he would've played football....at 6'6 272, he would've been an instant 4 star DE or TE with his speed.
I totally agree, he's a freak athlete but he doesn't have the skills to compensate for when he's going up against a bunch of other, nearly just as freakish athletes (ie. a consistent jump shot). That being said, football isn't out of the question yet, just ask Antonio Gates. Lot of similarities between those guys, though Zion is a much higher rated recruit, Antonio was no slouch at basketball.
I think this years whole 1st round QBs are overrated. Rosen, Allen, Darnold.... They are nowhere near on par with like Peyton Manning in college (who of course was a HUGE talent), but team are investing everything into them.
He completed 56% of passes in both of his two years starting at Wyoming.
Im not saying your wrong about him being overrated, but don't just say stuff that isnt true, it takes away from the arguement.
Good catch. I think I meant 60. It continues to be a long day.
You just hit a treasure trove here. The MLB Hall of Fame is replete with compilers.
Someone who just has a really long career and adds up modest stats over a very long career such that your numbers look HOF-y?
Yeah,he compiled the most no-hitters (7) and the most one-hitters (12) as well.
Oh, and he led the NL in ERA when he was 40, and K's every year from age 40-43. He compiled stats because he was really good.
I grew up in metro Detroit and attended my share of Tiger games, including memories of seeing Denny McClain and Mickey Lolich pitch at Tiger Stadium in '68, etc., etc. But by far the best pitching performance I ever saw live - and I witnessed a no-hitter in 2012 (Jered Weaver) - was Nolan Ryan pitching a two-hitter at Tiger Stadium when he was with the Angels, which then was a below average team. Our seats that day were in the lower deck by first base, about half way up, so we had a good view of Ryan's craft. I've never seen a pitching performance before or after where the hitters - to a man - were clearly intimidated to be standing in the batter's box. Of course, the two reasons for that were Ryan's 100+ mph fastball combined with his sketchy control. I recall one Tiger batter ducking as a 100 mph fastball sailed over his head. That guy struck out a few pitches later. Utter domination.
has stats that almost defy sabermetrics. I've read some great articles about him from statheads and even they don't know necessarily know where to put him. I think Joe Posnanski's quote comes closest "He’s the most extraordinary pitcher who ever lived, I think. But I also think he’s not especially close to the best."
If you take all pitcher's at their absolute best, say 50-100 starts, Nolan Ryan isn't just the greatest pitcher of all-time, he's the greatest sportsman of all-time. He's in the Don Bradman cricket conversation. As an example his 100th best game score is 82. That would be Greg Maddux 28th best game score. The stats at his best are just unbelievable.
The issue is that when he wasn't at his best, he was a lot more closer to average than good. The walks, wild pitches, his own terrible defense, etc. hurt him throughout his career.
I don't think he's overrated or underrated. I agree with Posnanski. He was just extraordinary and if you were fortunate to catch him during one of his top 100 starts, you knew you were watching something very special.
Tony Romo. Not sure if its my hate for DA BOYz or just that he flat out was not good. All ways thought he was wayyy overated on the field, and now in the booth. "ERRRRR AHHHH JIMMMM ISSSS THAT A CATCHHHHHH OHHHHHHH"