OT: The Last Jedi (SPOILER Edition)

Submitted by Michigan Arrogance on

Spoiler WARNING. For anyone who wants to discuss TLJ feel free to include any spolier info you want. Here are my thoughts.

 

Best Parts:

  • throne room fight
  • Poe tooling with Hux
  • Luke with Leia toward the end
  • R2 convincing Luke to come back
  • Yoda
  • Holdo with the Hyperspace kamikazi move - beaurty of a sceen
  • Rey vs Luke in the rain
  • the flashbacks
  • DJ the slicer

 

Parts that I thought weren't so good:

  • Super Leia (could have killed her 2-3 ways that would have been fine)
  • Maz from star tours (can't have her on the ship with the resistance? Have her point Finn et al to Lando maybe?)
  • BB-8 piloting an AT-ST
  • Luke milking that thing - I guess it really sets up his character status but that was just weird
  • some of the canto bight stuff went long so it didn't bother me really

I thought it was some amazing screenplay and story telling- every main character had a legit moment of "are they doing the right thing"? Even the secondary characters like Adml Holdo- you didn't know where she was going. Lots of questions answered. Lots of ways to go in the next one. Overall, this was the movie to move the SW story forward and not keep looking backward. Who knows what EpIX will be.

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TrueMaize

December 17th, 2017 at 10:27 AM ^

Luke dodges Ren’s lightsaber swing with the matrix move and then stands up and brushes his shoulders off. What the hell. My girlfriend who is a casual Star Wars fan(I’m the SW nerd) leans to me mid movie and says “this is like a terrible spoof of Star Wars” I said “yeah, I’m pissed”. The stalling by Poe with Hux was Spaceballsesque... I knew this movie would be a pile of crap the second I heard about the director being cut loose

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UM Fan from Sydney

December 17th, 2017 at 11:05 AM ^

JJ is better. Also, Rian was brought back to head an entirely new trilogy. I am guessing the new trilogy will take place hundreds or even thousands of years prior to the events we currently know. Whatever it will be, it is supposed to be all new characters and not part of the current saga with episodes 1 through 8.

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TrueMaize

December 17th, 2017 at 1:16 PM ^

Everything JJ touches turns to gold... I wish he would have done this trilogy to completion. I think he did a good job with 7. But I also think that’s what led to the demise of this movie. He did a great job and then it wasn’t followed up well.

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UM Fan from Sydney

December 17th, 2017 at 10:50 AM ^

He brushed his shoulder off after the walkers blasted him, not after he dodged the saber. Also, that dodge was awesome. I just wish Luke was actually there so they could have had an epic saber duel, but no, the writers decided to have him there via the force only. That was stupid. I was so looking forward to Luke’s fighting Kylo, but we were robbed of that. That is very disappointing.

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Reader71

December 18th, 2017 at 7:29 AM ^

That’s the problem with all fan criticism of Star Wars. Disappointment. The Luke projection was perfect for the story. He saved the spark of hope from being snuffed out while not giving Kylo a chance to kill him and turn further to the dark side. Kylo desperately wanted to kill Luke, and Luke robbed him of that opportunity while still saving the day and displaying the light side and giving him one last lesson about the people he killed staying with him. Star Wars is what happens on the theater screen, not what happens in your head between movies. I understand the disappointment (kind of), but I don’t understand how people can make value judgmnents about what happened in a movie by comparing it to what they would have had happened if they were the director. For fans of a really poppy, joyful, exhilarating series of movies, Star Wars fans are really dour, joyless, and stodgy people.

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ScooterTooter

December 18th, 2017 at 3:18 PM ^

When something gets nearly universal acclaim prior to opening, how else are people supposed to feel about a movie that is (being generous) a 7/10 at best and probably closer to 5 or 6/10? Especially when you're given the excuse that the reason for TFA being a remake of the original is to set up greatness in the next film. 

You're being told you're getting this incredible film and it ends up being okay. Its kind of the opposite of Rogue One. Rogue One was plagued by numerous issues in its creation and had numerous rumors out about how poor it was going to be, but ended up being better than either TFA or TLJ. 

Its weird: Despite knowing how Rogue One was going to end, I felt it had stakes. I didn't feel there were any stakes in either of the other movies. The only time I felt a thrill was when Luke walked out of the base toward the end to meet Kylo Ren. 

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Reader71

December 18th, 2017 at 3:41 PM ^

People can feel however they want about anything. I just think if the film is a 5, 6, or 7, they should feel like it’s a 5, 6, or 7, not that it’s a -3 because they imagined they were getting a 10. I think that’s a crazy way to feel about anything, much less an action picture. People literally expected the best movie of all time, which is insane. In the pantheon of movies, this is somewhere between Empire and Clones, and all of those are somewhere between The Godfather and The Room, and not particularly close to either.

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ScooterTooter

December 18th, 2017 at 4:22 PM ^

Yeah, but that's what it was hyped as. That's why it has a 93% on RT and a 96% among Top Critics. Plus, one of the big excuses as to why TFA was so generic in its storytelling was because it was setting up for something big. That's why TFA got such good reviews from both critics and fans. It was a "Okay! The series is back on track! Sure its a remake of ANH, but its competently done and not the prequels and now we are ready for something big and exciting in the next one!". Instead, it was fine. 

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Reader71

December 18th, 2017 at 8:31 PM ^

I get that. But how does critical reception, box office, marketing, or the quality of the sequels reflect on THIS movie? It’s all there, 24 frames per second. The quality of the movie is based on those frames, not your expextations of what might have been on those frames if you had your druthers or if they would have told you that it’s just a fine movie. I literally do not understand your point of view, even though it’s pretty common. Is The Godfather any worse because The Godfather Part III was bad? Does this movie make The Empire Strikes Back worse? Can that even be possible?

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TrueMaize

December 17th, 2017 at 1:21 PM ^

It just came off so cheesy... and god is Ren a terrible villain. He’s about as menacing as a wet paper bag. Gets his ass kicked in 7 by someone with no Jedi training... I’d rather have Darth Mal come back with a vengeance. Hell I would take the conspiracy rumors of JarJar being a sith over Ren. Also, don’t get me started on how easily Snoke was “defeated”

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SalvatoreQuattro

December 17th, 2017 at 10:33 AM ^

It was basically Empire Stirkes Back without the quality writing that made that movie the best of the bunch. Leia flying through space was utterly ridiculous and quite out of character for the franchise. None of the characters were particularly likeable or generated much emotion in any way. The absence of Vadar really cripples the sequels. Vadar was a huge part of the originals movies success. Driver’s character is utterly forgettable.

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Gameboy

December 17th, 2017 at 10:34 AM ^

If lighhtspeeding into another ship can destroy even the largest Destroyers, why don't they just build ships/missiles just to do that? Why bother with any other weapon?

Joined: 11/28/2010

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chatster

December 17th, 2017 at 10:55 AM ^

If you watch The Phantom Menace again, painful as that might be for many, you’ll see that there was a crucial vote taken in the Galactic Senate.  When they were debating a budget that might’ve led to a government shutdown, there was a compromise proposal that called for budget cuts across the board, despite Naboo’s then-Senator Palpatine calling for massive increases in military spending while making massive cuts in domestic and social-welfare spending.
 
Legend has it that E. T. cast the deciding vote to authorize military-budget sequestration after he’d overdosed on Reese’s Pieces that were laced with LSD.  Thus, that weapons system had to be shelved.  The rest is Star Wars history.
 
Now, the video evidence, courtesy of the Zapruder Films Library.

Joined: 09/14/2010

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TESOE

December 17th, 2017 at 10:38 AM ^

The storylines are stale.

There's some goodness - 

  • Score is awesome as usual.
  • It's good to have stronger roles for women...

How many ships can be blown up; how many villians killed before it just gets old.  

I'm still going to see them all... just looking for the Empire Strikes Back magic.

Don't get me wrong... worth a screening just not what it could have been with respect to the screenplay.

My stupid opinion.

Joined: 09/21/2009

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s1105615

December 17th, 2017 at 11:20 AM ^

I get that some people had their formative years built around the new an awesome that Star Wars had to have been back in 1979, and that they feel like the franchise has been all about merch for the tiny tots since RotJ.  Here's my retort...so what?  These movies aren't high class cinema, they are space operas.  Acting not so great in Episodes 1-3?  Ok, fair complaint.  But yammering on about how Disney has ruined the franchise by telling a story that is different than the one you want, that's your issue bro.  If you don't like the story, go write a fan fic and see just how easy it is to write something that is true to the characters and moves the narrative forward in a satsifying way.

Enjoy the movies for what they are or stop paying money to watch them.  I'm sure that they'll find themselves in the vast minority if they choose to stop consuming the films and extended Star Wars universe.

 

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SalvatoreQuattro

December 17th, 2017 at 11:38 AM ^

prequels and sequels just are not good films. Not in story or acting terms. It is exceedingly hard, if not impossible, to follow up classic films. It is akin to writing follow ups to a Shakespeare play or a Dickens novel. It is a completely different voice treating the same material. They would have been better off sticking to narrowly focused films like Rogue . That allows more space for difference voice.

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s1105615

December 17th, 2017 at 12:44 PM ^

How good or bad the prequels/sequels are is completely subjective, I get that. That being said, I do t understand why people have attacked them with such vitriol. If you don’t like them, stop going to see them, and buying the special edition blu rays and new light sabers, etc. the fact that the films will still gross billions of dollars should be an indication that the opinion that the movies are absolute trash is clearly a minority opinion.

Take them for what they are and not what you want it to be and you’ll probably enjoy them a lot more.

I was disappointed that Snoke’s backstory is unimportant or unconnected to previous Sith Lords. I was disappointed that Rey isn’t a Kenobi or Skywalker or Windu or something. But oh well, it was still a great way to spend 3 hours and I can’t wait to do it again on Tuesday with my kids because I know they’ll love it. Have fun with it...

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jabberwock

December 17th, 2017 at 1:54 PM ^

Honestly, you can kind of use michigan football as an analogy:

Michigan has tradition, $ for facilities and super high paid coaches, famous alums that sing their praises on lots of sports/media shows, is at least near some talent rich areas . . . yet keeps on underacheiving for the past 15 years.

Star Wars has a fantastic prebuilt universe, compelling, beloved characters, a space/fantasy style that gives a lot of freedom to writwers, as big a budget as any producers/directors could dream of. . . and with all that going for them the best they can produce is a "pretty good, yet flawed" series of films.

It's frustrating.  Many of these movies are good, but in context they feel a lot like 3rd place in the B1G East Division.

Joined: 07/04/2008

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jerseyblue

December 17th, 2017 at 10:39 AM ^

I didn't care for it . There were a couple good scenes but overall I didn't like it. The Finn mission for the codebreaker at the casino/imperial destroyer was a dead end sublot. It was 20 minutes that could have been shaved off a movie that was too long. Then when he and the girl were about to be executed the whole hanger explodes. Somehow They don't have a scratch on them yet all these troopers around them are dead. Except for Christie's character who, despite standing 2 feet from them a minute ago is now re-entering the hanger from much further away with more stormtroopers. Just so they can have a scene of them entering through smoke because it looks cool in the trailer. Also, the forced comedy scene with Poe acting like he's on hold in the beginning didn't even get a cough from the audience. It was awkward. Then when the woman stayed behind on the rebel ship while the pods were fleeing she did a cool thing by jumping into hyperspace straight into the empirial fleet. Cool, yes but they had her twiddle her thumbs and just watch most of the pods get picked off before she did it. She was on a suicide run anyway, why didn't she do it when the first pod got destroyed? It was better than FA but I really hated that one. Loved Rogue one.

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ryebreadboy

December 17th, 2017 at 11:08 AM ^

How has no one mentioned the magical yoda ghost that shows up during Luke's moment of crisis? He's been on this damn island for how long with nothing, but now he needs guidance and poof here's yoda to provide it? And he can summon lightning by snapping his fingers? Dude, Snoke problem over, send in the Yoda ghost and we can all go home. Why doesn't the Vader ghost just appear to Kyle Ren and tell him to knock it off?

There were also too many dumb animals which I think is Disney trying to keep little kids interested. The stupid squawky birds on Luke's island, and the racing cat things, and the moronically-named "Crystal Critters" that contrary to every animal instinct run into the base instead of into the mountains in the first place and then magically and lassie-esque guide the characters out the back exit? That seemed a little convenient.

I guess the Vice Admiral's death was supposed to make me feel something, but since she didn't have any character development or back story, I didn't really care. Flying magic space Leia was dumb - she's never used her force powers before and it took her like a half hour after being "dead" to magically pull that shit together? Agree that the whole casino planet trek was stupid and pointless. How did Finn's love interest manage to turn around her shitty speeder and catch him when those things go two miles an hour and they were going in opposite directions for five minutes?

Also I feel like light speed has become a huge crutch for the series. Last movie it was "light speed out of the hangar" and "we can go through the shield at light speed but magically stop before we hit the planet because I'm a goddamn secret mathematician/genius" and now they can just light speed through ships and destroy them? Which seems like it should be a true thing, but then isn't every x-wing a super weapon? We could've destroyed the Death Star with only one life lost! And yes, why did the vice admiral just sit there on the ship and watch them blow up the transports? The jig is up dude, at least position your huge ship between the first order and the transports to absorb that blaster fire.

Overall not super impressed with the writing or the movie. I think if it wasn't Star Wars!(c), it'd be a D+ sci-fi film that we'd all mock forever.

Joined: 12/02/2010

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Michael Burnham

December 17th, 2017 at 12:07 PM ^

If that's the case, then how did all the First Order soldiers, who I am assuming are not all force sensitives, see Luke on the salt planet?

I kept waiting during the entire film on how they were going to kill off Leia, knowing that Carrie Fisher had died.  Even at the very end, when they were boarding the Millenium Falcon, I thought that maybe they would resort to something cliche like a stray laser blast, but no, she survives.  I mean, they reportedly reshot 40% of Rogue One after Gareth Edwards was done with it and hired Tony Gilroy to do it.  And the reports are that the Han Solo movie was 90% done before Disney canned the directors and hired Ron Howard (???) as the replacement.  They couldn't CGI or reshoot Leia passing away?  From a storyline standpoint, I think they killed off the wrong Skywalker.  There was all this talk about how the Rebellion needed a legend like Luke to come back.  How better to do this than for Luke to lead the charge, train more Jedi, and defeat the First Order?

I saw the film and I didn't really like it.  They really didn't advance the plot except that now Luke is gone and Snoke is dead and... If they had filmed all three films simultaneously, like Peter Jackson did with the Lord of the Rings, maybe you could make an argument that there is "A Plan" for these three films (VII, VIII, and IX) and that Episode IX will tie everything together.  

They're probably the most hated films in the series, but you know, at least Lucas probably had an idea of where things were going to end up in the much-maligned prequels.  These last two, VII and now this one, seemed to be sort of aimless shambolic attempts to milk as much money from the Star Wars franchise and fans by Disney.  

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ryebreadboy

December 17th, 2017 at 5:21 PM ^

Oh my god, this. I didn't even think of that, but wouldn't that bring everything full circle? Luke re-establishes a cadre of Jedi that defeat the evil First Order, and restores their place in the new republic, thereby fixing what his father helped to destroy. This movie should've had Luke being all hell no I'm staying on garbage island until they killed Leia and then the last movie should be the ass-kicking of the first order by Luke, until he somehow dies at the end killing Snoke, and redeemed Kylo and Rey lead the new Jedi into the future.

Joined: 12/02/2010

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markusr2007

December 17th, 2017 at 11:58 AM ^

It's really not that hard.

You can't just have Rey show up in the throne room with Kylo and kill off the most powerful Dark being in the galaxy after he speaks 25 words and expect to feel anything.

With Vader you had choking of subordinators, obsession/compulsion and relentlessness demonstrated by his pursuit of Skywalker, etc.

It culminates to a climax.

What was the climatic moment in TLJ? The Kylo vs. Luke fight? No. That was fucking anti-climatic.

It's a poorly written film, disjointed and interrupted by a lot of stupid scenes. 

The entire Canto Bight Social Justice Warrior/PETA adventure was just pointless and stupid.

 

Joined: 10/21/2008

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markusr2007

December 17th, 2017 at 11:58 AM ^

It's really not that hard.

You can't just have Rey show up in the throne room with Kylo and kill off the most powerful Dark being in the galaxy after he speaks 25 words and expect to feel anything.

With Vader you had choking of subordinators, obsession/compulsion and relentlessness demonstrated by his pursuit of Skywalker, etc.

It culminates to a climax.

What was the climatic moment in TLJ? The Kylo vs. Luke fight? No. That was fucking anti-climatic.

It's a poorly written film, disjointed and interrupted by a lot of stupid scenes. 

The entire Canto Bight Social Justice Warrior/PETA adventure was just pointless and stupid.

 

Joined: 10/21/2008

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BlueMan80

December 17th, 2017 at 11:09 AM ^

Saved the film for me. It was on the slow side and I agree the code breaker plot line really didn’t add much, but the Luke/Kylo battle at the end was pretty good. I knew they’d be rehashing plot line from Empire Strikes Back, so my story line expectations were lowered.

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The Shredder

December 17th, 2017 at 11:21 AM ^

I enjoyed it, I don't like analyzing every little thing. I'm a big SW fan as well and liked that they are finally breaking away from the same formula and trying something new. Making kylo the top heel adds to his story. They only part I didn't care for was the casino part.

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