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Date Title Body
01/16/2019 - 8:37pm He should have come out…

He should have come out firing after the 2016 Ohio State game. A press conference where he walked through a play by play of each atrocity and called out Delaney by name would have sufficed. 

01/13/2019 - 3:30pm Usually they aren't. 

Usually they aren't. 

01/13/2019 - 3:15pm Need the bodies at this…

Need the bodies at this point, so bring him in. 

01/10/2019 - 2:37pm Those first two Hoke seasons…

Those first two Hoke seasons are so frustrating to think about because the conference title game was right there to be a part of if only he'd hired a spread guy to run the offense. 

01/10/2019 - 2:20pm I think what's interesting…

I think what's interesting is that the 5-star guys who transfer for reasons outside of playing time seem to find success (Kyler Murray, Shea Patterson), while those that do really don't amount to much. I think Jacob Eason will probably be pretty good, but he lost his job after he was injured and Fromm played his way into the unimpeachable starter. 

We will see if Fields breaks the pattern. 

01/10/2019 - 2:12pm Only question that needs to…

Only question that needs to be asked (everyone already knows the answer):

If Fields had started for Georgia and was projected to start next year, would he be transferring because he didn't feel safe at Georgia? 

01/10/2019 - 1:58pm It would be the end to the…

It would be the end to the sit out a year rule. 

Honestly, I hope he isn't granted eligibility because if he is, it's going to be absolute chaos to try and build a college football roster, even moreso than it already is now. 

01/10/2019 - 1:54pm Ehhh, I do wonder how much…

Ehhh, I do wonder how much of that was Devin Gardner just seeming to be nowhere near the guy he had shown in flashes the prior two years. 

Seemed like DG struggled to do even the most basic things in 2014. 

01/10/2019 - 1:51pm The 2013 Michigan vs. Ohio…

The 2013 Michigan vs. Ohio State offensive performance was one of the most inexplicable I've ever seen. 

The four games prior to that:

Michigan State: 168 yards of offense, -48 rushing yards, 29-6 loss.

Nebraska: 175 yards of offense, -21 rushing yards, 17-13 loss.

Northwestern: The team won 27-19, but scored 9 points in regulation and needed a walk-off field goal to get there. Under 300 yards in regulation.

Iowa: 158 yards of offense, 98 yards passing, 24-21 loss (7 points scored by the defense). 

I'm not sure there has ever been a worse 4 game offensive stretch in the history of the program. And then....

Ohio State: 41 points, 31 first downs, 451 passing yards, 7.33 YPP. 

01/08/2019 - 10:18am He does know. 

I watched…

He does know. 

I watched Standford vs. USC from 2010 the other day. Stanford moves the ball downfield with 50 seconds left without any of the issues we saw this year. 

I don't know what's going on, but its not like he thinks "Actually, having an effective 2 minute drill isn't a good idea". 

01/04/2019 - 11:21am Honestly, I doubt any QB…

Honestly, I doubt any QB looks as good as Haskins did against Michigan, so I'm not worried. 

01/04/2019 - 8:10am Gil is in the same boat as…

Gil is in the same boat as Watson. If you're playing most teams, he's going to be fine because that team won't have enough athletes to make you pay for playing him. 

When you get to the OSUs of the world, they are going to attack him mercilessly. 

01/03/2019 - 1:15pm Yeah, okay, like he's going…

Yeah, okay, like he's going to say "Yeah, after it was 28-0 we decided to ease up a bit". No coach on earth has ever said that. 

Alabama won because Oklahoma is an overrated Big 12 team that routinely loses whenever they have to play legit opponents because what they do on offense doesn't work as well. Much like Michigan got exposed on defense when they had to play their first real offense this year, Oklahoma got exposed when they had to face their first real defense. They were down 18 late in the 4th and scored a TD after an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty erased a 3rd and 20 to make things look better. 

And of course it looks like they weren't trying to play keep-away: Who has Oklahoma's defense stopped all year? You think they were going to do it against Alabama?? They gave up at least 27 points in 9 of their last 10 games. Prior to the rematch with Texas, they'd given up 40+ in the four before it. 

 

01/03/2019 - 1:01pm Honestly, what the fuck are…

Honestly, what are you even talking about? 

Stanford won the PAC-12 and the Rose Bowl in 2015. 

They lost 31-28 in the PAC-12 title game in 2017. 

Shaw has won three PAC-12 titles and been to five championship games. 

01/03/2019 - 12:58pm Sure, but we're saying "the…

Sure, but we're saying "the offense failed!", when the offense got a guy open but he dropped the ball. 

That guy is leaving early for the NFL, so its not like they threw it to a scrub OSU left open because they weren't worried about him. 

01/03/2019 - 12:40pm What the hell? What kind of…

What the hell? What kind of monster would think this way? We just escaped that nightmare. Who the hell do y-

Oh. Carry on. 

01/03/2019 - 11:39am This is soooooo dumb. 

The…

This is soooooo dumb. 

The players were fine, they were just young. In 2011 and 2012, they went 14-4 in Big Ten play and were most successful when Borges tailored his playcalling to the style that fit them. Had they not lost Denard against Nebraska, they likely play for the Big Ten title in 2012 (remember, OSU was disqualified). Shit, its possible they do it both years if Hoke had just embraced the spread 100%. 

This take is honestly one of the most idiotic on the board and it amazes me that people just ignore what happened AFTER the QB was no longer a first year starter and they weren't backed by the worst defense in the country. 

FFS, the last 1000 yard RB came in 2011 with those "small" players before this year. 

01/03/2019 - 11:34am This is true. However, why…

This is true. However, why were a couple of the drives stopped in the 3rd quarter? 

Zach Gentry drops an easy ball that would have had Michigan at the Ohio State 40 down 27-19. So is that stop on the offense or is that on Zach Gentry?

On the following drive, Zach Gentry has a ball hit him in the hands and deflect away that would have also been a first down. Yeah he took a hit afterward and went out, so maybe he drops it anyway after the hit, but he let it go before that. 

Both of these plays were there to be made and created by the staff, but Gentry - NFL caliber TE - failed to make the plays. 

01/03/2019 - 11:30am Why was any of the Alabama…

Why was any of the Alabama-Oklahoma game relevant after it was 28-0?

01/03/2019 - 11:23am Right, the balance shouldn't…

Right, the balance shouldn't be run/pass, it should be a balance between Evans/DPJ/Collins/Black/Eubanks/Martin ,etc. 

01/03/2019 - 11:20am Or, Alabama went up 28-0 and…

Or, Alabama went up 28-0 and took their foot off the gas and Oklahoma made it slightly more respectable while never managing to get within 2 scores. 

By the way, go look at Oklahoma's bowl record. For all the talk of how great their offense is, once they face an elite team they usually whither away and die. 

2003: 14 points against LSU

2004: 19 points against USC

2005: 17 points against Oregon

2006: 28 points in regulation against Boise, (scored 35, 7 came on a pick-six)

2007: 28 points against WVU, 13 of which game in the 4th quarter where they were down 34-15 and lost 48-28

2008: 14 points against Florida

2009: 31 points against 8-5 Stanford 

2010: 48 points against Connecticut (lol)

2011: 31 points against 7-6 Iowa

2012: 13 points against Texas A&M

2013: 45 points against Alabama - the crown jewel of Oklahoma's performances that came against an Alabama team that definitely was in a "we got boned out of the playoff" mood. Still, 45 points against Bama is 45 points against Bama.

2014: 6 points against Clemson

2015: 17 points against Clemson

2016:  35 points against Auburn (legit)

2017: 38 points against Georgia in regulation (scored 45, but 7 came off a pick 6), scored only 7 points in the 2nd half. 

2018: 34 points against Alabama after being down 28-0, 31-10 and 38-20 entering the 4th quarter. 

There's about 2.5-3 impressive games in there depending on how much mileage you want to give them for the 2013 Alabama game where Alabama missed the playoff on a missed field goal return touchdown. 

01/03/2019 - 10:24am Did they? 

I think you said…

Did they? 

I think you said this previously, but it doesn't jibe with (I believe) your stance on Michigan's offense vs. Ohio State. 

Oklahoma was down 28-0, 31-10 and 38-20 at various points. They never pulled any closer than 2 scores. Oklahoma never really scored when it mattered according to the logic of most of the board right? 

TBH, Oklahoma's success is really just a product of the Big 12. They got pantsed in 2015 against Clemson, they scored 7 points in the 2nd half in 2017 vs. Georiga and they were down 28-0 nothing before getting on the board this year against Alabama. 

If they were in the Big 10 or SEC, they'd be Penn State, Michigan or LSU. 

01/03/2019 - 9:53am Piggybacking off my other…

Piggybacking off my other post: Didn't we see the inverse of this on defense? Don Brown was able to do one thing all year with great success, but then when they got to Ohio State and the Buckeyes starting exposing Watson and Gil, he tried to adjust to something they hadn't really done and it didn't work? 

01/03/2019 - 9:42am I think what that does is…

I think what that does is set up false expectations for the rest of the year. Run the ball well against Wisconsin, Penn State and Michigan State and you think you can do the same against Ohio State. When it doesn't work, you think "Well, its just execution, they'll get it right". In a game where you need to score nearly every possession, even if you adjust after 3-4 possessions, it's too late. 

I'd rather have the team practicing what will make them best against the most difficult teams on the schedule rather than plowing through weak teams to control the clock in lesser games.

Michigan blew out plenty of teams in 2015 and 2016. Rudock played in 7 blowouts in 2015. Speight played in 8 in 2016. Depending on how you classify the Indiana and MSU games this year, Patterson played in 7 to 9. There's no real reason for the passing numbers to be down.  

In 2015, Rudock threw the ball over 30 times 6 times (probably would have been 7 if he didn't get hurt vs. Minnesota). Never threw less than 20 times. 

In 2016, excise two truly bad teams (Hawaii and Rutgers, threw 13 times in each), Speight threw 30 times in 6 out of 11 games. Never threw less than 20 times. 

Meanwhile, Patterson threw 30 times three times: Notre Dame, Florida and Ohio State. So he only went over the mark while Michigan was trying to play catch up. 

01/03/2019 - 9:32am In this line: 

Have a tempo…

In this line: 

Have a tempo package. Have something (even if its only for Ohio State), that you can bust out that will throw off the defense. Be slow and deliberate all year, but have it ready. Want to call plays by committee using up the play clock? Great, most of the time that's fine. But there should be a set of plays you are ready to choose from that one guy calls where you aren't taking 25-30 seconds off the play clock. 

01/03/2019 - 9:25am So, let's invoke the man who…

So, let's invoke the man who inspires more dumb opinions than anyone else on this board: Rich Rodriguez. 

(If you are the type of person whose first response to this is "no point agin good taem, player 2 small", just move along)

In his three years here, Rodriguez had different QBs every season, each with a different skill set. And each year he adjusted how he used them to that skill set within his offense. Denard ran the ball more than Forcier, who ran the ball more than Threet. He had his offense, but he attempted to fit the personnel to the offense. The emphasis of attack was based on what would work best. RBs got a lot more touches prior to Denard for example, because Forcier and Threet weren't going to run 25 times a game. Its not a surprise that the following staff, upon inheriting Denard and a team no longer riddled with inexperience, had their best success when they used him more closely to how Rodriguez did than what they would have preferred. 

To some extent, Harbaugh did this with Patterson, who had far more designed QB runs than any other QB whose played at Michigan. However, this ignores the rest of the offense. Where does the strength of the team lie? In the receivers and TEs. So why, why, did this year's team throw the ball less than the 2015 team? Why did they throw the ball less than the 2016 team? Why, with a 5-star QB who came here after throwing the ball 35-45 times a game at Ole Miss and 4 top-200 WRs and an NFL draft pick TE did Michigan throw the ball less than they did with Jake Rudock and Wilton Speight? If Michigan isn't throwing the ball 30-35 times a game next year (unless Charbonnet is an absolute monster who dictates running the ball like he's at Wisconsin), then the season will likely end in disappointment. If Harbaugh adjusts his offense (he doesn't have to abandon it!) to his personnel's strengths, he'll be fine. 

 

01/03/2019 - 8:48am Jedd Fisch Pro-Style?

Jedd Fisch Pro-Style?

01/02/2019 - 8:51pm What do you think Dax Hill…

What do you think Dax Hill was offered from Michigan? 

Do you think if it was money it compared to what he would have (or was offered) from Alabama? 

What about Rashan Gary and Clemson? 

01/02/2019 - 8:46pm Yeah, no. That game mainly…

Yeah, no. That game mainly came down to Speight missing a ton of throws for no real reason and the receivers not making plays when they could have made them. 

No staff is going to have a perfect run/pass game every game of the season, so Iowa figuring out one thing about Michigan's run game should not have been a disaster. If you actually read that UFR, Brian also points out a lot of the issues are just OLs missing their blocks. He specifically points out that Kalis made mistakes he hadn't all year. Again, not sure what the coaches are supposed to do when guys suddenly just aren't playing well. 

As for FSU, not really sure how you get a massacre out of a game that was 33-32. Michigan might have been lucky to hold a late lead, but calling that a massacre is absurd. Especially since - get this- their literal best player was injured right before the game. 

01/02/2019 - 8:33pm Its entirely possible to…

Its entirely possible to both get a job you might otherwise not have because of who you know and also be good at said job. 

There's nothing about RB development and recruiting over the last few years that suggest Jay Harbaugh has been a detriment to the team. 

01/02/2019 - 2:11pm See this is where I get…

See this is where I get confused (and why it sucks we don't get UFRs for these games). 

In 2016 and 2017 by all I can remember, the staff called a very good game on offense vs. OSU. In fact, Brian and Ace were both pretty optimistic that if anyone other than John O'Korn had played QB, Michigan would have won last year. 

Meanwhile, this year after listening to the podcast after the game, I believe I remember all three guys agreeing that Ohio State didn't do anything out of the ordinary other than adjust to Michigan trying to hide Brandon Watson. 

 

01/02/2019 - 2:00pm Losing your best player…

Losing your best player right before the game is probably the difference in a game you go on to lose by one point, right?

You're implying that Harbaugh (and staff) is at fault for a "collapse" that cost the team games. I agree with you this year. I agree on the South Carolina game last year. Before that, I really fail to see where you are coming from. This was something else entirely. 

01/02/2019 - 1:57pm It's a collapse in the sense…

It's a collapse in the sense that Michigan lost the games. It was not a collapse in the sense that the coaching staff and team seemed to fall apart which is what is being implied here. 

01/02/2019 - 1:46pm I mean, at least I have a…

I mean, at least I have a point of attack. 

I'm arguing that if a UCLA team with a new coach who flamed out of his last two jobs is your main competition for a kid with eyes on the NFL after one season...its not much competition at all. Especially given that he grew up in the Midwest.

Your argument is "We lost some guys to the prior UCLA regime and Chip Kelly was good 5 years ago, so it was a huge recruiting job to get him here" which is just...dumb. 

 

01/02/2019 - 12:20pm Sure, that's possible.

Its…

Sure, that's possible.

Its also possible that they could envision Gentry elsewhere when they thought they were set at QB, while they can't envision Milton anywhere else other than QB. 

01/02/2019 - 12:16pm Kelly hasn't had a…

Kelly hasn't had a successful season since 2014. 

And sure, Michigan has lost recruits to UCLA, but if in this particular instance your main competition is UCLA, that's not much competition at all. It wasn't some amazing recruiting job to get a Toledo guy here.

01/02/2019 - 12:11pm They did not collapse in…

They did not collapse in 2015 or 2016. 

They lost to an excellent Ohio State team in 2015 and won their bowl game. 

They nearly beat Ohio State on the road if not for a confluence of events outside of Harbaugh's control in 2016. They nearly beat FSU as well, despite losing Peppers right before the game which certainly put a wrench in their defensive plans. 

And last year was bad, but most of us knew it wasn't going to be great. Despite that, the team still looked better than Ohio State most of that game and were mainly done in by O'Korn.

This year feels like an outlier to the first four when it comes to how the games were actually played. 

01/02/2019 - 12:08pm So what has changed from…

So what has changed from 2016 to 2018? Is it really just losing guys like Jedd Fisch and Wheatley?

I don't remember Michigan feeling this disorganized then. Mostly, things felt like they were on the right track. Even to your point about recruiting: Michigan cleaned up recruiting for 2017 that year in state, nabbing (I think) the top 7 guys. 

You guys watched a lot of Stanford and San Francisco prior to Harbaugh's hiring: Did the offense look like this? Were they incapable of running a two minute drill? Was it always slow? 

 

01/02/2019 - 11:58am Isn't it at least…

Isn't it at least interesting that none of Harbaugh's recruits have started (and likely won't start) going into the 2019 season?

How often does that happen? Has it ever happened?

01/02/2019 - 11:55am Ha. So UCLA, the team that…

Ha. So UCLA, the team that had just fired their coach and hired a guy who had flamed out at his last two jobs was the main competition? Coupling that with Patterson being a Midwest guy....

...Not much competition at all. 

01/02/2019 - 11:52am Are those QBs a better fit…

Are those QBs a better fit for what Oklahoma wants to do as opposed to Patterson and Michigan?

01/02/2019 - 11:51am From what I can find, they…

From what I can find, they gave him one season at QB, then moved him to TE for the bowl practices prior to the first Florida bowl game. He's quoted in an article saying he still wanted to play QB from that time period. 

He might not have been the best QB on the roster at that time because get this - he was a true freshman!

What does he look like with a couple season under his belt as a back-up? Is he better or worse than O'Korn in 2017? 

From what it sounds like, its more likely the staff thought they were set at QB in part because of a transfer - O'Korn - and convinced him to play TE. Not that he just looked around and said "Yeesh, I'll never play QB here, better tell coach I want to play TE". 

01/02/2019 - 11:44am I thought it was that he was…

I thought it was that he was still behind O'Korn that caused him to check out? 

01/02/2019 - 11:42am That's not the point. 

To…

That's not the point. 

To condense:

Does it harm the development of the recruits here? 

Does bringing in a guy who is good, but might not be ideal for the offense you want to run stunt your long-term success by holding off a guy who might have a lower initial floor but higher long-term ceiling?

Does it affect recruiting if your recruits never play? I know, someone said "But Oklahoma!". Sure. But Oklahoma's QBs have won conference titles, played in the playoffs and won Heismans. Baker Mayfield was the #1 overall draft pick. Slight difference between the success rates. 

 

01/02/2019 - 11:39am Yeah, but who was the…

Yeah, but who was the competition? Most of the good teams already had starters in place or other highly rated guys coming in. 

01/02/2019 - 11:37am Who was Gentry behind?…

Who was Gentry behind? Rudock, sure. Speight's older, so sure. But also John O'Korn, who comes in with a leg up because he's played and started games prior to getting to Michigan. Maybe he stays at QB if there's a better chance at PT. I think the team certainly would have been in better position if those two are fighting it out with (or behind) Speight. Instead, it was "O'Korn is neck and neck with Speight!", despite that being not anywhere close to true when it actually came to performance. Having O'Korn around certainly delayed the development of the other QBs and hurt Peters confidence. 

A lot (almost all) of what people said regarding Peters revolved around his bowl performance. For me personally, I was in the camp that Michigan didn't need Patterson because I was encouraged by Peters...until the bowl game. I changed my tune. However, I've heard numerous times that Peters didn't actually get to practice as much as everyone thought because of the injury, so at least for me, I wonder if he's more the guy who showed a lot of promise earlier in the year or the bowl game. I lean toward the former with new information. 

 

01/02/2019 - 11:29am 2015 - Fair.

2016 -…

2015 - Fair.

2016 - Probably fair as well. But let's say O'Korn isn't there: Does Gentry move to TE? Doesn't Peters get more reps? Do we know what Gentry would have looked like as a QB roughly Wilton Speight sized but more well-regarded out of HS with better mobility?

2017 - Speight probably starts, because an upperclassmen starter almost never loses their job. But he got hurt, so who was brought in. O'Korn. Again, what does the season look like if one of Gentry or Peters is #2 all along. Dunno.

2018 - This is what I'm talking about with short term success. Patterson came off two years as a partial starter, so even with taking in the new system, he was likely better prepared in the short term. Definitely the highest floor guy. Probably just the best guy overall. But would someone like McCaffrey have a higher ceiling? When I think about guys like Smith, Luck and Kaepernick, I don't really get a Patterson vibe. But you could see someone of McCaffrey's athleticism and build being those guys. 

2019 - Again, Patterson isn't going to lose his job because returning upperclassmen don't. And maybe he'll be great with another year under his belt. I certainly hope so. But to me it feels like the staff wants a certain offense and Shea has to fit into it and there's a limit to how far that takes you, whereas one of the other guys might be a better fit for what they want, but won't get the opportunity because of the returning starter bit. 

01/02/2019 - 11:25am I think he came to Michigan…

I think he came to Michigan because he was an obvious candidate to start at a major program as well as Harbaugh's reputation as a QB coach. 

 

01/02/2019 - 10:57am Should add, I mean QB…

Should add, I mean QB starter. 

01/02/2019 - 9:58am It makes sense. 

I think…

It makes sense. 

I think that if you spend most of the season within the playoff picture (Michigan/Georgia), to fall out of it is a huge blow to your motivation. 

Meanwhile, its probably easier to get motivated when it feels like you're moving up (Texas, Florida) or have a different motivation (Urban's last game, Rose Bowl is traditionally a bigger game than the Peach Bowl, etc.).