OT: The Last Jedi (SPOILER Edition)
Spoiler WARNING. For anyone who wants to discuss TLJ feel free to include any spolier info you want. Here are my thoughts.
Best Parts:
- throne room fight
- Poe tooling with Hux
- Luke with Leia toward the end
- R2 convincing Luke to come back
- Yoda
- Holdo with the Hyperspace kamikazi move - beaurty of a sceen
- Rey vs Luke in the rain
- the flashbacks
- DJ the slicer
Parts that I thought weren't so good:
- Super Leia (could have killed her 2-3 ways that would have been fine)
- Maz from star tours (can't have her on the ship with the resistance? Have her point Finn et al to Lando maybe?)
- BB-8 piloting an AT-ST
- Luke milking that thing - I guess it really sets up his character status but that was just weird
- some of the canto bight stuff went long so it didn't bother me really
I thought it was some amazing screenplay and story telling- every main character had a legit moment of "are they doing the right thing"? Even the secondary characters like Adml Holdo- you didn't know where she was going. Lots of questions answered. Lots of ways to go in the next one. Overall, this was the movie to move the SW story forward and not keep looking backward. Who knows what EpIX will be.
December 17th, 2017 at 8:15 PM ^
December 17th, 2017 at 8:42 PM ^
The original trilogy has a vision...of the rag-tag group of plucky individuals who stand up to immense, oppressive power and triumph against all odds.
The prequels, despite being mostly terribly, also have a vision...of how free societies corrode from the inside and can thereby underwrite their own demise.
The new films, by contrast...just rehash the vision of the original series.
Getting there strains credulity, for me, and is a missed opportunity to tell an original story. I would have preferred films where the setup is a weak and fractured New Republic and an insurgent First Order--a bit like the Timothy Zahn novels, but not that specific story.
Perhaps there is a traitor within the New Republic? Or perhaps the outer systems grow frustrated with New Republic and turn to the First Order? Either way, the narrative would be: what happens when the formerly rag tag group of plucky individuals has to govern an ungovernable space? To me this would have been much more compelling. Instead what we have is basically the same narrative as the original trilogy, only with diminishing returns.
(As for Disney, I'm an ex-employee. There is the good and there is the bad.)
December 17th, 2017 at 10:33 PM ^
Instead of commenting on MGoBlog go find an EU message board to toss around your opinions. Just because you know EU doesnt make star wars yours. It is a global phenomena and shouldnt be catered to the small group in comparison that knows EU.
December 17th, 2017 at 11:29 PM ^
If you read more than the first sentence you would see that I said it is second behind Empire.
December 18th, 2017 at 1:08 AM ^
December 17th, 2017 at 7:20 PM ^
December 17th, 2017 at 8:33 PM ^
Yes disjointed, some scenes perplexing, good guy characters were likable.
I liked the puffins. My collection of Star Wars pez dispensers is growing.
December 17th, 2017 at 8:44 PM ^
If disney said they won't make another trilogy for 20 years I'd like this movei more.
December 17th, 2017 at 9:00 PM ^
December 18th, 2017 at 1:06 AM ^
So there were TWO guys in that casino town who could blow past First Order security and pick any lock in the world?
I assumed Maz made a mistake, or that guy stole Benicio's flower, based on how super duper skilled Benicio was.
Why does this latest version of Star Wars hand out (supposedly) rare skills like free joint tokes at a Dead concert? Need to expertly pilot rikety old salt racers while avoiding laser fire? Sure, everyone hop in a cockpit! Need to find someone able to break into the universe's strongest security? Either find a specific guy, or you'll just happen to bump into one.
December 18th, 2017 at 9:20 AM ^
Don't get me wrong the whole movie would have been just fine without that casino plot line at all but at least the work was done to show why they went with random code breaker and why that was a poor decision.
December 18th, 2017 at 10:40 AM ^
They were skeptical (understandable) and then he broke out of the cell like it was nothing. That would have been good enough for me, considering my options. But they went the opposite way! He went one way, they went the other.
- He was in trouble, bumped into BB8, who shot coins at every guard to subdue them, and then (apparently) he abd BB8 went and stole a ship
- Rose and Finn, going away from Benicio, got to the stables and freed the spacehorses, rode one through the casino and field, and were stuck on the edge of a cliff until BB8 & Benicio popped up to save their bacon.
That whole sequence was just a mess all the way around, including how did Benicio even know about the cloaking escape pod plan? If he knew that, why were he, Finn & Rose trying to deactivate the light speed jump detector in the first place? There was no need!
December 18th, 2017 at 11:52 AM ^
Had they maintained Del Toro's character. You went to get a hacker, failed, but took your best chance with what was available. And it was almost a success until it wasn't, but now you have this tag along that is just trying to save his bacon. An interesting twist on how things typically work and a new type of character for Star Wars. Would have been great in my opinion.
December 17th, 2017 at 9:03 PM ^
I believe that many of you have built this movie series up to the point that it couldn't ever live up to your delusional expectations. Please remember that Episodes 1-3 were awful, and that they almost deystroyed one of the best movie series in our lifetime. They have successfully gotten this back on the rails, and are now kicking out entertaining movies that my kids can enjoy with me. I can't wait to see it again, and I was really happy to see it with a movie theatre full of people who loved it as much as I did. You can take your Bah Humbug and have fun hating some of the best sci fi you will see in your lifetime.
December 17th, 2017 at 9:12 PM ^
Good:
- Luke showing up on the battlefield
- Throne room scene
- Acting for Rey and Kylo
- Poe's character
- BB8 in general
- Kylo screaming "MORE!" when firing at Luke - at least someone had passion
- The explanation about the jedi order being kind of this made up, overly exalted thing. It was a cynical moment (a good thing in context), yet not sure what it means for the franchise going forward
- Leia asking everyone "why are you looking at me?" when Poe was leading them in the cave at the end. I found that a nicely symbolic moment, all things considered
Bad (in no particular order):
- The bad call quality joke with General Hux - it made him look weak and he wasn't that guy from TFA
- Luke haz a sad
- A scene break every damn minute in the beginning. I couldn't get connected to what was happening
- Rey's parents are really nobodies? Then why was there such a connection between Rey and Kylo in TFA and when he was saying "who is the girl?" when she got off Jakku? And if the force is available to everyone as Luke says in TLJ, and we see the little boy force grab a broom at the end, that makes Rey's significance even less spectacular
- Luke going out like a bitch, immediately after a total boss scene. I guess he was... tired?
- The allegedly most evil dude ever getting canned in 20 minutes, with no idea at all about how he found Kylo, how he turned him, how he got his power, where he came from or any other useful thing
- Rose saving Finn as he was about to sacrifice himself TO SAVE EVERYONE'S LIFE. I guess there aren't any lasting stakes - silly me for thinking Finn was going to do something legit
- Rose then kissing Finn. Dude tried to run away an hour ago and now you're in love?
- Slow motion escape, running out of gas, yawn. And waiting for 10 escape pods to get shot down before turning the cruiser on the First Order's ship
- Finn and Rose's adventure being basically for nothing, yet not feeling that way
- Kylo and Rey's bromance/romance whatever is going on with them
- Outside of killing Snoke, what else has Kylo really done? Who has he killed? Why do we hate him? He really hasn't done anything
- Leia coming back from space. That was cringe-worthy
- No good BB8 vs. bad BB8 fight scene? Really? Good BB8 was getting stalked by the bad one and then... nothing???
- Luke left the map to himself, right? It wasn't the most unfindable place in the galaxy
- I guess we don't need to know after all how Maz got Luke's lightsaber
- And what the hell was that cut-in scene with Maz flying all around while on a video call? Was there any connection to anything?
- Was the salt the red stuff or the white stuff on the battlefield? I thought it was supposed to be something of significance and it's... not?
Overall I couldn't get connected to the story for about 90 minutes and I wanted to. I never felt like the movie was hopeless, and that's what it should have been. It's not that it compared with Empire that way, it's what classic three act movies/plays do. They have the good, then the bad, then the good. This never felt dark or awful, I never had a sense of dread.
I'll see Episode IX but I'll go in with vastly lower expectations and hope they somehow can bring Luke back to torment Kylo.
A good movie as its own movie, which is probably why critics (allegedly) enjoyed it, but not when seen through the Star Wars lens.
December 17th, 2017 at 10:19 PM ^
so what you're saying is, TLJ is the egg salad sandwich of the Star Wars cinematic universe?
December 17th, 2017 at 11:31 PM ^
A little annoying for someone to nit pick like that while forgetting Ren killed his dad Han Solo.
Don't particularly care, but found it humorous he wrote up this big tirade but was himself rather sloppy.
December 18th, 2017 at 1:24 AM ^
My 'tirade' got the best of me. You should see my keyboard - I went full anonymous internet poster. Those keys really got a typing.
Truthfully forgot about Kylo/Han, so yeah, that's on me. I think that's part of an underlying challenge I have - it's just not feeling dark or dreaded. Luke and Vader on Cloud City was kind of scary as a kid. I'm naturally looking through it with different eyes, so take that for what it's worth, yet I didn't feel that same loss of hope.
Net net, good movie. Not a good Star Wars movie.
December 18th, 2017 at 9:34 AM ^
"TFA was lazy writing. They just copied ANH."
After The Last Jedi...
"It was dark but it wasnt dark in the way ESB was dark. And I would have prefered it be that way"
December 18th, 2017 at 5:25 AM ^
Egg salad sandwiches are tasty and can satisfy a hunger need. Yet you probably won't be driving out of your way to find that killer egg salad sandwich joint.
December 17th, 2017 at 9:47 PM ^
December 17th, 2017 at 11:31 PM ^
"I would have rather seen [Luke] actually give himself up on the battlefield to Kylo (like Obi-Wan did to Vader) " And if that happened, then others would be complaining about how it was derivative of the first Star Wars movie. Either complaints of "It's the same!" or complaints of "It's different!"
December 18th, 2017 at 12:15 AM ^
December 18th, 2017 at 9:06 AM ^
December 24th, 2017 at 8:51 AM ^
He informed you; the bigger question is why you would read it, and then complain about it?
December 18th, 2017 at 9:36 AM ^
TLJ was tough because it had some great elements - some of which were the best in possibly the entire series - and then had some real bad ones.
Great Aspects
- The Rashomon flashback sequence where you get differing and growing perspective on the Ben/Luke history
- Deeper dive into the conflict between good/evil for both Ben and Rey
- The cinemotography was probably the best of the series in a series with a lot of great shots. But the shots on the island were great, particularly the scene where Rey is describing what the force means, but also the scene where Holdo sacrafices herself
- The battle in near Snoke's thrown was great. And the tension between Ben and Rey during that portion of the movie was very good
Good aspects
- I like that Rey was said to be from "nobodies" and from "nowhere". I'm not sure if that's the truth or not, I'm skeptical it is. But I think it adds a nice element to the story.
- Yoda was well done when Luke reconnected with the force
- I like Poe. He's fun. He's got a little Han Solo in him. Some of his humor is forced, but I'm cool with it.
- When Luke goes to battle. When Ben throws Hux when Hux questions him and then the pilot is just like "sure, let's do that". Overall, I thought the humor was solid though not the best of the series.
- BB8 is pretty hit or miss in this one but more generally good. The droids tend to be that way I guess. Didn't like him driving, thought it was going to be Del Toro once he realized that was his best means for escape.
Indifferent Aspects
- I don't mind the porgs, I just thought they didn't hit the fine line with them. I like, for instance, the small things, like how they were nesting within the Falcon. The scene with Chewy eating them was ok though unnecessary, and I didn't mind them when Chewy was flying. It just seemed like they needed to either serve a point of be background, and they were kind of stuck in between.
- Luke in general. I like Hamill. He had some strong moments in this one and then some weaker ones though. Wasn't a huge fan of the lightsaber tossing.
- Snoke was setup to be great. I liked the scenes he was in. But he just isn't given enough before he dies. It's like a great setup and then a let down, even though I was cool with how he died in that instance, just not as a general overaching idea.
- I really liked the potential of Del Toro's character and liked the way he acted it. I thought he had a ton of potential to be a tag-along guy that was actually neither good or bad, but was truly just there to get ahead. That he appears to just be gone now is a huge let down, because he was setup really well to add a lot to the series. Really thought he was going to have the red lapel or whatever too. This is probably what disappointed me the most, because I was really starting to get into his character. Maybe he'll be back...
- Rose was well setup, and then didn't maintain the momentum
Bad
- Leia flying was awful
- The battle scene was dragging. Why didn't Hondo sacrafice herself right away? At least she redeemed herself, but why was she keeping that "plan" a secret for so long. A lot in this film didn't seem to add up. While other Star Wars rely on coincidence and some weird behavior, this one really stretched in in a lot of ways.
- Rose "saving" Finn was bad and another example of behavior making no sense. I know they needed a way to get Luke there. Finn was doing something good for all involved. But they needed a different way, because that didn't work
- Phasma was completely wasted again as a character.
I really like TFA. While the story certainly had familiarity, I thought the characters and chemistry was great and they hit the tones and pacing perfectly. This one had great elements, but the pacing was off and the chemistry didn't connect as much. Still a good movie, especially when you take it as is and particularly when you take it as part of the new trilogy and not always comparing it to the originals.
My order
- Empire Strikes Back
- Star Wars (small gap)
- The Force Awakens
- Return of the Jedi (gap)
- Rogue One
- The Last Jedi (gap)
- Revenge of the Sith (huge gap)
- The Phantom Menace
- Attack of the Clones
December 18th, 2017 at 2:31 PM ^
Jar Jar was enough to sink any movie. The Phantom Menace is the worst.
December 24th, 2017 at 8:47 AM ^
The Coyote is killing it here!
December 18th, 2017 at 9:59 AM ^
Seems many are upset because young luke became the old syndical Jedi master. Remember how YODA was when we first found him? Obi-Won? We weren't upset about Them because we didn't know their past. We know Luke's past and it makes us sad. Don't confuse your sorrow about the aging and cynical nature for Jedi's. We all are idealistic and good when we are young and most give in or give up. The hope is when the next generation sees or cause and joins us. Renewing our youthful vigor.
This happened for Luke as he came back to life and gave his all for the cause again. I thought it was ok when I saw it. Very entertaining and a solid effort for an impossible task. Reading these whiny bitch posts makes me think the movie was brilliant, exposing the fears and darkness in each of you. Losing hope because luke is "dead" and not a marvel superhero that never fades/ages. I for one am excited to see how Rey and the crew take on emo-kylo et.al.
That being said I didn't like leia poppins either and some of the swings were misses in the movie but I've typed enough for now.
December 18th, 2017 at 2:28 PM ^
As I pointed out to another poster above, Yoda's objections were much different than Luke's. There was nothing at all to suggest Yoda was cynical or defeated. He objected to training Luke on the basis of Jedi procedure (starting training when young) and concern over Luke's dilligence to see his training through to the end due to his constantly looking for something else.
Luke, in this last movie, was simply a cranky, disillusioned old man. I have no problem with him retreating for some thoughtful meditation and reflection on what went wrong, but they completely undid all the character growth he experienced in the first trilogy. That was so disappointing, and really a waste of an important character.
The biggest things I was looking forward to with the new trilogy is to see what happend with Han and Luke, and I was disappointed on both counts. It was a big part of my childhood so there's some emotional investment on my part. That's why some of us are so disappointed.
My son wasn't terribly impressed either. I didn't hate the film, I saw some decent storytelling and action, but it has some big deficiencies.
December 18th, 2017 at 3:13 PM ^
December 19th, 2017 at 4:10 AM ^
December 19th, 2017 at 9:44 AM ^
Circumstances are different.
People change in 30/40 years.
Its pathetic that some of you grown men are so butthurt about how "thats not my Luke Skywalker".
December 20th, 2017 at 9:49 AM ^
December 18th, 2017 at 11:22 AM ^
I grew up on Star Wars, movies, action figures, bedspread, sheets, lunch box, all the things. While this installment had its good moments, it seemed boring to me. Just as wiht the past few movies, I felt like I've seen it before, just with different characters and contexts.
I just can't get into the last couple movies. They all seem to follow the same structure - longitudinal story about someone coming into and/or wresting with the good and bad sides of the force, with other capers and missions going on as well. The capers/missions all have the same setup as the impossible thing that has to be done in order to do something else. Every movie seems to have this structure - continuous force story and episodics missions. Then for each movie the structure is filled with different takes, a smattering of new characters, and some backstory and gateways to future movies. It all seems trite now. There is no imagination as far as structure goes. Give me something different. Give me something new.
December 18th, 2017 at 11:25 AM ^
Bye Felicia. Star Wars will move on without you just like the force will move on without the Skywalkers.
December 18th, 2017 at 11:24 AM ^
December 18th, 2017 at 4:24 PM ^
Honestly, you can tell who likes good movies and who doesn't by where they rank TFA and TLJ and where they rank Rogue One.
(Mostly joking, wanted to add in case it wasn't obvious).
December 18th, 2017 at 1:53 PM ^
December 18th, 2017 at 4:16 PM ^
Weren't they the eight guys around Snoke who were, what, eight of the top 20 fighters in the universe or something? Dispatched without any trouble at all.
December 18th, 2017 at 8:26 PM ^
December 19th, 2017 at 4:17 AM ^
December 28th, 2017 at 11:04 AM ^
WTF? I actually said WTF outloud in the Theater. The total Disrespect for Luke. He is the guy that got you here and Disney stuck it in him and broke it off.
December 28th, 2017 at 11:07 AM ^
The Last Command was awsome with Thrawn and Mara Jade. Lucas and Zahn.
December 30th, 2017 at 6:59 PM ^
7 8 and 9 are just re-hashed versions on 4 5 & 6