Interesting convo I had with a prominant Chicago HS basketball coach

Submitted by WindyCityBlue on

So, I had the opportunity to speak with a Chicago HS basketball luminary in a casual situation earlier today.  I won't drop his name at this point, but he coached some of Chicago's best talent over the past 30 years at a couple well known Chicago high schools.  He apparently just retired this year.  I asked some very pointed questions about basketball topics, specifically regarding college recruiting, and he (thankfully) did not hold back on giving me some very candid and real answers.  Thought I would share with the board:

1. College bball recruiting is extremely dirty (duh!)

2. While he thinks the NCAA does their best to monitor this, he seems to believe that college coaches are much smarter and can "stay ahead" of the NCAA.  He says there are very sophisticated ways to pay players and their families without suspicion.

3. Coach K - dirty as hell (I was kinda surprised by this)

4. Coach Cal - dirty as hell (duh!)

5. Coach Pitino - dirty as hell (duh!)

5. Izzo - sends his assitants to do his dirty work.  He says he was offered money from Dwayne Stephens on several recent occasions for particular recruits (although I don't know if he actually accepted the money).  He thinks that Izzo is not as bad as others though.  Izzo has a lot of respect in Chicago and is not normally known for playing dirty.  However, his people told him that Izzo's recent recruting success is no doubt from some "below the belt" tactics.

6. The Jabari Parker recruitment was surprising clean on a relative scale.

7. As for Michigan/JB - clean, very clean, but too clean.  Most promimant Chicago HS coaches stay away from Michigan because Michigan won't be part of the "recruiting machine" in Chicago.  They think JB is a good coach but teaches "white boy" basketball.  He basically says Michigan/JB has no respect in Chicago anymore.

I mentioned I was a Michigan fan and talked some more about our program.  He has tons of respect for us becasue he had lots of interaction with Michigan many years ago.  Back in the 90s, Michigan was THE school for Chicago's best talent.  He says we were not a clean program then, but he says that no one was and Michigan was no different than any other major program.  He seems to think we have little to no chance with big time recruits in any major city without getting a little dirty. 

He had some funny things to say about Amaker, but I'll save for later.

Anyway, thought I would share with the board.  What are your thoughts?  Would you be OK with getting a little dirty to get better recruits?  Are you OK with being a super clean program now that can't consistent compete on the big stage?

 

 

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Rabbit21

December 27th, 2015 at 9:52 PM ^

I'm with you, if for no other reason than we all saw what happened when Michigan got caught. The consequences are always worse for the schools that no-one expects it from. I don't have a problem if that's how the game is played for everyone else, just makes me appreciate the guys who came here more. I'll leave aside the implications of Beileins system being "white boy basketball". The information from the OP is fascinating and I appreciate it, but it doesn't make me think the approach needs to change.



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umichshea

December 28th, 2015 at 7:11 AM ^

You may be the only one who wouldn't trade him. You are either a really loyal guy or one of the least competitive humans on the planet...or both. If you like winning you trade him every day of the week for one of those guys. Beilen is a system coach hired by Bill Martin because he had a guy named "Pittsnoggle" and seemed to be good at WVU. Great human...slightly above average coach. He had a nice short run here but has not proven consistent nor do future prospects look good. Michigan can do better and should do better. Izzo rose from the ashes of the Fab Five. I think people forget where MI was all time before sanctions...it was a Top 25 program...which I can live with at a "football school".



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StephenRKass

December 29th, 2015 at 9:38 AM ^

I like winning . . . but not at all costs. If winning means you are providing whores and cash and drugs and doing whatever you can to win, no matter the rules, then I'm not playing that game.

Personally, I have no problem with some of the rules being redone. The reality, as far as I'm concerned, is that the players could receive some kind of compensation (besides a "free" education). Both football and basketball are really semi-pro teams, and amatuerism is just a sham. I get that, and the whole enterprise is just crazy and nonsensical. The idea that college sports is somehow pure or amatuer or noble is a joke. In basketball, the whole "one and done" thing exposes that. There's no way most of these kids have the time for academics and basketball. To make it work, lots of corners are being cut. The reality is that both basketball and football are a full time job.

The thing is, I do believe that Beilein can win with the right players. I mean, with the right players, any team is going to win. I also think Beilein is good at developing players. It would be interesting to have an honest discussion with Burke and McGary about stuff like this. I honestly believe that if Michigan had one decent big man, we would be competitive with almost everyone.

My response is too long, and rambling. But yeah, I don't want those coaches.

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MLaw06

December 27th, 2015 at 9:38 PM ^

Also the interesting part of these comments is that everyone is fine so long as we are Clean AND Win.  But if you had a choice as to being Clean OR Winning.  Then what do you say?

I say play it clean because we can still recruit based on the other aspects (good coach, good facilities, great education, great support, etc.).  We might not win a championship, but we'll be a tourney team most of the time.

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MLaw06

December 27th, 2015 at 9:45 PM ^

Like, I said, "most of the time."  That being said, I actually do think we'll make the tourney this year because most of the B1G plays pretty soft defense.  We'll probably lose to any team with real post players, but luckily, that's like only 3 teams this year.

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los barcos

December 28th, 2015 at 12:30 AM ^

This conversation with friends recently as it seems like our lack of recruiting success is due to our so called "cleanliness." And I'm not sure what side I come down on now. When we unearthed some diamonds like trey and nik, it was easy to stand on our morals. But today.... Today it's looking like that 2-3 year run could have been more of anomaly then we all want to admit. Anyways I will say this: you don't play games with "clean" or "dirty" stamped on your forehead and clinging to this notion that basically is "oh well we do it the Right way," seems a bit hollow when your rivals are playing in final fours and you're sitting at home....

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micheal honcho

December 27th, 2015 at 9:48 PM ^

White boy basketball definitely exists as does white boy football. We all see it, know what it looks like but get that looking over your shoulder for Al Sharpton feeling when we hear it. Even when repeating it from the mouth of a black person.

M basketball should stay clean. At least until the 90s get a lot further in the rear view mirror.



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Coldwater

December 27th, 2015 at 9:54 PM ^

I hope the OP isn't pulling our leg on some of this stuff, because it's gold. I totally can see a black inner city Chicago hoops coach describing Beilein as white-boy basketball...lol that's fricking incredible....because it can look like that is soooo true.

How many times in game open forums do we bitch that our bigs are soooo unathletic and soft, that are guys have no swagger or "Dawg" in them. We say that stuff constantly. So it comes to no surprise that high school coaches see that to.

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Erik_in_Dayton

December 27th, 2015 at 10:00 PM ^

I hate that you can be "too clean." As others say above, Michigan would be better positioned if they could give players at least some cash without breaking any rules. I wouldn't trade Coach Beilein for anyone, but it's very frustrating to see him beat his head against the wall with respect to recruiting.

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bacon

December 27th, 2015 at 10:02 PM ^

After reading your post, I lost respect for Chicago Basketball. What you're essentially saying is that only dirty coaches have respect because they're willing to play the game, and coaches that aren't dirty have no respect because they won't pay to play. Fuck Chicago then.

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1974

December 27th, 2015 at 10:06 PM ^

Chicago basketball could be viewed as a microcosm of government and politics in the area. Corrupt to the core. Look at how much trouble U of Illinois has had recruiting up there. For whatever reason, they've generally -- it would seem -- chosen to _not_ play dirty.

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WindyCityBlue

December 27th, 2015 at 11:11 PM ^

...U of Illinois milked Peoria of all its talent and that worked well.  There was enough top end talent to sustain a program for awhile. 

Keep in mind well before this, Illinois had major recruting infractions for a few years, most notably from the Deon Thomas (from Chicago Simeon) recruitment saga, and the NCAA gave them a "lack of institutional control".  I think thats when they decided to stay away from recruiting Chicago as it would seem too risky for U of Illinois.

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Picktown GoBlue

December 28th, 2015 at 12:23 AM ^

having lived in Chicago for a good portion of my life.  Found a great book years ago in our little Picktown Library called Decision-Making Chicago Style that helped illustrate how things "get done" in the city that works (tm).  A lot of slimy deals are documented, including wholesale destruction of Chicago's Little Italy to make room for the most ugly campus on earth IMHO.  There is always a hand out and that knowing nod of the head or grunt that silently asks for the payback, kickback, vote, trashcan lid, parking pass, zoning variance, gerrymandered wards, etc. etc.

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jblaze

December 27th, 2015 at 10:09 PM ^

It just reaffirms that Michigan cannot recruit any top kid other than the occasional reject, like McGary. It also explains the amazing recruiting of Duke and their lack of NBA success.

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ThadMattasagoblin

December 27th, 2015 at 10:09 PM ^

When we did so well, we had underrated talents like Burke or Hardaway but we also had guys like Mcgary, Morris, or Robinson who were 4 and 5 stars. Now our entire roster is 3 stars with a few that are good like Levert but some that just aren't good enough like Doyle or MAAR.

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Blue boy johnson

December 27th, 2015 at 10:16 PM ^

I don't think Michigan was ever THE school for Chicago high school basketball. 90's was Juwan Howard and Darius Taylor 80's Michigan didn't land anybody from Chicago 70's brought in the late John Robinson, his brother Michael Robinson, and Ricky Green, though Green was a Juco. All three of these players attended Hirsch HS. 60's brought in Cazzie Russell, Kenneth Maxey, Steve Handier, Odell Handcox, and Robert Carlson http://bentley.umich.edu/athdept/rosters/search.php?data=basketball&las…

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WindyCityBlue

December 27th, 2015 at 10:15 PM ^

...I would rather be clean, even if that means sacrificing some high-end recruits and wins and the ability to be elite.  To a certain extent, I think you can be clean AND successful, but not consistently.   It is that consistency that makes you elite. 

Besides a few years recently, we haven't been a really relevant basketball program.  Hell, my MSU friends stopped ripping on Michigan basketball years ago because its not worth it to them.  Our expectations are (unfortuately) pretty low, so I think most Michigan fans can stomach inconsistent success.

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Sllepy81

December 27th, 2015 at 10:16 PM ^

I'm related to a former under JB, he wanted to get into coaching until he saw it all. It's why I'm surprised Harbaugh is sticking to college, it's dirty and makes you hate the game if you're involved. JB is clean mostly because he didn't go through a dirty staff to get here. Doesn't mean dirty things don't go on from boosters but it does explain why he loses too kids. They're pampered and babied everywhere. Some of our favorites were monsters as people outside of the court, won't name names as some of you idolize them.

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B-Nut-GoBlue

December 27th, 2015 at 10:18 PM ^

White boy basketball can't win at the elite level.  It deserves no respect.

 

...the NBA is all about...oh wait....

....that Golden State team.  They...did they do pretty well last year?!  Do they get respect from the urban kids and coaches?!  Probably not.  Probs too "white".

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