OT: Dovetailing on MSU's largest class ever, they remove math requirement for degree
Thousands of MSU students couldn't pass remedial math (9th-10th grade algebra?), so rather than not accepting such weak students in the first place, MSU is just getting rid of university-level math requirement for degrees. Wayne State made a similar move a couple of years ago.
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/2018/06/06/michigan-state-university-gets-rid-remedial-math-msu-developmental-lcc/664895002/
how do you even stay accredited when you do this?
Ask UNC. Their basketball players can barely put two to three coherent sentences together on a piece of paper.
I think the true moran revealed itself.
Lest I cast the first stone, recalling how I struggled to pass the online math test required of anyone who wanted to pass what was essentially high school pre-calc during my senior year at Michigan... Ended up bailing into the lowest-level, easiest stats course I could find. I couldn't hack it.
In other words, don't always assume otherwise smart people have it in their brain to pull through basic math as a matter of course. And don't leave the math requirement until the end if you're decidedly not a math person.
That LSA required pre-calc course is three years more advanced than the required algebra course State just got rid of.
Same with me...Didn’t go to Michigan but my pre-calc credits I transferred to Hillsdale with (I took Community College classes in high school) only counted for the bare minimum requirement for non-math majors. I’m shocked any college would be removing at least one required math class.
Listen - i don't expect everyone to get through calc, linear algebra for dif eqs; but having enough basic math to balance your check book, understanding compound interest and amortizing loans feels like an absolute MUST.
Now you could say that colleges don't teach that now and I agree, but change it to be life math instead and make it absolutely required.
It sounds like a “life math” course is exactly what is replacing the traditional math requirement. I don’t really have a problem with it.
eh not quite; it sounds even more remedial:
"Students whose majors don't involve heavy math or science can now take quantitative literacy classes, in which lessons focus on real-life applications of math such as calculating millage rates or converting different units of measurement"
I mean converting units of measurement is what you have Alexa for; millage rates are the most basic of multiplication / division. Both of those are FAR more basic "life" math.
Teaching someone that there is a difference whether an extra payment goes towards principal (like a mortgage) or is a pre-payment (like student loans) and what the financial impact of that is way more important than converting cups to ounces.
I don't assume anyone who can't do something to the point of giving up on it entirely is "otherwise smart".
What degree will not need math to be honest? Even a degree in party planning need some sort of math...
Party math, the best kind of math
They are offering "Math Pathways", or per the article, "Alternative Paths" to fulfill graduation requirements.
"Students whose majors don't involve heavy math or science can now take quantitative literacy classes, in which lessons focus on real-life applications of math such as calculating millage rates or converting different units of measurement."
This is just fucking sad! Let's be accommodating to those losers who can't do Algebra! Love the direction university administrators are heading these days...
They are going to get the reputation back as a "Cow College" or "Moo U", as we used to say back in the day...
I'm not so sure they ever lost that reputation! Maybe tom can now help these students also???
You say "math pathways" and I read "hopscotch"
if you can't get into college, go to state!
Friends don't let friends go to staee!!!
At least they can count on losing to Beilein.
I could have told you they were bad at math. They think one Brandon Gibbons = dozens of forcible rapes and other sexual assaults...
Don't forget child molestation and dog rape
Here's hoping Michigan beats the Molest U Basset Hound Rapers by 5 touchdowns this fall...
Maybe I am missing something, but the article states that they are removing the class that does not count towards their degree and replacing it with two classes that do. Also, it sounds more like it was an issue with the class it self and the online nature of it more then anything. I am always for piling on MSU sports, but in this case it sounds like they are correcting problem with a better solution.
Read on, Captain - when they start talking about "alternative math pathways", it is college speak for "let's be politically correct and understanding to those students who don't understand math, but do have a checkbook (or more likely, parents with one) and can write the correct dollar amount in the box".
They are using Lansing Community College as a benchmark.
Pile on - they deserve it.
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying this is a good thing, just the fact that it is taking a bad situation and making it slightly not as bad. And we all know admitting there is a problem is the first step in correcting it. However a four year university should never model their programs after community colleges, they need to be better then that. And if the student's struggle with a better prepared remedial class, then maybe a four year university is not for them.
So they’re even dumber than I thought they were when I woke up this morning. Nice.
And it is still early in the day, Wichitan - plenty of time for Sparty to do some more idiotic thing and negatively impact your opinion even more. Never sell Sparty short - they have been on a roll in 2018...
Don't worry, they'll find a way to screw the pooch.
In addition to "Can't Read, Can't Write", add can't master basic math. What a fine academic institution.
They are the LCC of east lansing.
"Can't Add, Can't Subtract"
this is why the MSU grads at McDonalds are being replaced with kiosks
I'm never gonna get the correct change back from the pizza guy again. Dammit!!
That's why I always make sure that the change gets rolled into the tip. You tip that much better then and then you don't have to worry about bothering the pizza delivery person with math or anything terribly strenuous.
Nice job of posting half the story, making it seem like they're doing away with the math requirement altogether.
In fact, they're dropping the primarily online remedial math course and replacing it with two new math classes which are done in person. Also, the remedial class didn't count toward grad credits, while the new classes do.
The article states "pass rates for in-person sections of the class were similar."
Read between the lines. Admissions standards were just lowered to admit their largest class ever, now they're lowering degree requirements to keep bottom quartile students enrolled and inflate graduation rates. Next announcement will be a big % increase in cost of attendance. Cash-strapped diploma mill.
I think having everything in-class helps a lot. It's easier to grasp the concepts and it's better to have a fixed time for the freshmen who haven't been able to develop time management skills yet. That class can be a huge road block for a lot of people. I've seen a fair amount of kids drop out because of a similar course at UNLV. If switching it to two classes makes it easier to learn, then that's good for the students and not just the bottom line (but it will help). Those bottom quartile students still have about 40 other classes to get through so they will still fail if they're not cut out for college.
Oof... Not great.
Classic Sparty, making change is all the math they need to know
This is a really bad trend. When math skills that should be learned in high school are deferred to college, but then abandoned altogether, I think it detracts from what it means to be college educated. You need to have a basic understanding of math to grapple with credit cards, mortgage, savings, and dozens of other important decisions.
Serious question --- isn't it possible to get a BS (in some LSA majors) from the University of Michigan without getting any credits in Mathematics?
That's how I read the "Quantitative Reasoning" requirement. You need credits from courses in the "quantitative reasoning" but it doesn't require any of those credits be in Math/Statistics.
I actually don't think that's overly unusual either. Penn State, school I know best --- to get a undergrad degree there is a "Quantification Courses" requirement but those classes need not be Math or Statistics.
Mmm that's probably a no for a BS. For a BA, my experiences suggest that taking Calc 1 is in fact the EASIEST method of satisfying the quant requirement at Michigan.
For instance, I only took Calc 1 (a decision O regret to this day). I also took statistics, econometrics, statistics of economics, accounting, etc. Those classes fulfill the quant requirement, but they are hard. Very hard.
I also took an Astronomy class for natural sciences, but it would have counted towards quant as well (I think...it's been over a decade). The math required in that class was also hard - to my memory, harder than calc.
Long story short, you'll hear a lot of whining from some LSA artsy types about needing math...but life needs math. A lot of it.
I don't know if its possible to get a BS without taking a math, or a hard math like class (phsyics, etc).
I can't remember the exact amount but I am pretty sure to get a BS vs. the default BA I think you have to have 60 credits of classes that are BS classes; which are your maths, stats, sciences and Econ. Of the science world you have:
Physics - Lotsa math, and probably a calc requirement
Chemestry - Never took any college classes but I have to assume there is math in there somewhere
Biology - Maybe this is your best shot? I don't know how math heavy biology is, but perhaps there is a way that this would satisfy your BS without a true quantitative class.
Econ - 1) lots of math involved, I am pretty sure a calc requirement, and 2) defaults to a BA so you would have to add something, probably more math classes if you wanted a BS
So sure, I bet its possible to do, but I think the amount of credit math you would have to do to make it work, would qualify as a math class.
I don't know if its possible to get a BS without taking a math, or a hard math like class (phsyics, etc).
I can't remember the exact amount but I am pretty sure to get a BS vs. the default BA I think you have to have 60 credits of classes that are BS classes; which are your maths, stats, sciences and Econ. Of the science world you have:
Physics - Lotsa math, and probably a calc requirement
Chemistry - Never took any college classes but I have to assume there is math in there somewhere
Biology - Maybe this is your best shot? I don't know how math heavy biology is, but perhaps there is a way that this would satisfy your BS without a true quantitative class.
Econ - 1) lots of math involved, I am pretty sure a calc requirement, and 2) defaults to a BA so you would have to add something, probably more math classes if you wanted a BS
So sure, I bet its possible to do, but I think the amount of credit math you would have to do to make it work, would qualify as a math class.
Wow. Doesn't add up...until you realize it's msu.
What the hell. I was a business major and I still had to take Calculus. Seems like they don't actually care about graduating well rounded students.
Honestly, I don't blame them. These remedial math courses are almost universally taught poorly, especially online. They are taught in a very particular way that can make seemingly-simple material hard to follow, and so I don't blame people who aren't inclined to like the material anyway further confused by a muddled instructions about it.
MSU has a lot of problems (covering up numerous sexual assaults, teachers trying to fuck Basset hounds, the general Sparty-ness of the establishment), but I credit them for moving away from the online course and breaking it into two classes that people have to do in person.
I was not required to take Math at UM--needed 4 credits of Math or Logic. BA English '83.
You must be old because most college students have no idea what a check book is
I'm under 40 and still keep and balance my checkbook despite using a financial aggregator and being pretty much cashless.
Whether you balance a check book or not; teaching someone about their personal cash flow should be a must.
Does anyone remember the movie "Up the Creek"? A combo "Porky's" and "Animal House" movie where if a group of students win a boat race, they get degrees of their choice??
This reminds me of that. . .