Resolved: That this House will not accept a Funk firing before season's end.
Edit: I think there's some misunderstanding here. This is just a thread to discuss whether or not Funk should be fired with a slant towards 'no.' It is a reaction to the calls for his firing in sUTL threads.
A summary of the debate to date (subject to edit)
Youth
Point: O-line is young.
Counterpoint: They're not as young.
Development
Point: Borges effed this joint up. Compounding youth, unnecessary (and ineffective) complexity stifled learning.
Counterpoint: Can't blame everything on Al. What if we're mistaking the the root of the problem--maybe Al was trying to gameplan around Funk's deficiencies.
Knowledge
Point: He knows what he's doing.
Counterpoint: He doesn't know what he's doing.
-Ed: I don't know what I'm doing.
Results
Point: You've got to look at this stuff in context. Blaming Funk for the poor state of the O-line is like forcing someone into a cage and accusing them of misbehaving when they throw something at you.
Counterpoint: We must judge him based on performance.
Calling all Experts
Magnus. Space Coyote. Other experts.
August 17th, 2014 at 9:43 AM ^
August 17th, 2014 at 9:49 AM ^
This is just a place to discuss whether or not Funk should be fired!
Edit: With a slant toward the answer being 'no.' It is somewhat of a reaction to the calls for his firing in sUTL threads.
August 17th, 2014 at 10:19 AM ^
August 17th, 2014 at 7:51 PM ^
please watch your back. Last I heard about you getting involved with legislative matters was in the Senate, and your encounter with Brutus didn't end well.
August 18th, 2014 at 4:53 AM ^
Not sure why there's an overwhelmingly negative reaction here, but I enjoyed the reference and the joke!
August 17th, 2014 at 9:44 AM ^
Motion: I don't care. All in favor?
But seriously...we're two weeks away from the season. New offense, new line. Are they going to be awesome? Probably not. Are they going to be good? Also probably not. But they are young, so even if they are mediocre this year, we still have two more years of basically the same line so they should be much better going forward.
Let's just shelve the debate until the season actually starts so we have some real world results to go off of instead of conjecture.
August 17th, 2014 at 9:45 AM ^
Counterpoint: not before you look
Let's see how the season goes, or at least a few games, before we do this
August 17th, 2014 at 9:45 AM ^
August 17th, 2014 at 9:49 AM ^
August 17th, 2014 at 9:47 AM ^
August 17th, 2014 at 9:48 AM ^
Some clarification, please?
August 17th, 2014 at 10:32 AM ^
Thanks for posting up that clarification, but I'm not sure how it figures into the discussion!
August 17th, 2014 at 10:37 AM ^
August 17th, 2014 at 10:41 AM ^
I don't understand his original post--not in the sense that I don't get the reference, but in that I don't know what that reference has to do with the original post.
August 17th, 2014 at 9:53 AM ^
Turtles line up as a cohesive unit:
Or not:
August 17th, 2014 at 1:35 PM ^
did you get a secret photo of the turtle O-line? see the top photo, a pro-set, strong right, paint turtle flex. on two. ready, break!
bottom photo? i dunno, maybe those are state turtles i n the green and we're just piling on?
August 17th, 2014 at 1:48 PM ^
Here's one from the Bentley archives:
Fritz Crisler/Mad Magicians lineup.
August 17th, 2014 at 1:58 PM ^
First, we get a lineup of all peppers, and now one of turtles. I love this place.
EDIT: But I think they're risking a "too many turtles on the field" penalty.
August 17th, 2014 at 6:12 PM ^
either that, or we have really, really stacked that backfield and are now working with a new 'Nuss' secret weapon, the double-double tight end formation.
August 17th, 2014 at 9:54 AM ^
August 17th, 2014 at 7:47 PM ^
sharted.
August 17th, 2014 at 10:36 AM ^
August 17th, 2014 at 11:14 AM ^
For the record, I also like turtles.
August 17th, 2014 at 11:45 AM ^
I THOUGHT I TOLD YOUR AVATAR NOT TO COME AROUND THESE PARTS NO MORE.
August 17th, 2014 at 12:35 PM ^
Now we know why they are called "dogfights"!
August 17th, 2014 at 1:23 PM ^
he failed again with his drone. Where were you last night? Too hell with regulations. It should have had a bird's eye view of the Big House.
August 17th, 2014 at 9:50 AM ^
There's two weeks left in camp. The season hasn't started. There's time to improve and fix the problems. It was a scrimmage, after all. Cool your jets, people.
August 17th, 2014 at 10:08 AM ^
That has got to be your most positive post in a year.
I actually disagree here. I dont think there will be much change in 2 weeks time. Maybe in late October there will be but you don't improve leaps and bounds in 10-12 days. Ability is ability man. Compare Dymonte to Jabrill - one guy "figured it out" in 2 months, another guy is struggling after 18 months. And OL is way more technical because 5 guys need to pick it up together. They had January - mid August to "figure it out" - another 2 weeks is not going to move the needle substantially.
At this point I run 1-2 TE sets almost every down and the RB I pick is (a) the one that doesnt dance AT ALL in the backfield and (b) is the best pass blocker. His running ability at this point is moot. Basically you are sending any RB into a hulk of bodies with tiny holes if any. Key is to keep DG injury free and find time to throw passes. The 5-6 yard slant pass is going to effectively be a run play this year. Just worried a lot of defenses are going to sit on it knowing it's coming.
As for Funk no excuses if the OL is not functional by late September. He has plenty of raw material - if he cannot produce a low level (Purdue) Big 10 OL with all these choices that's on him. I get 2-3 of our OL guys (out of 10-12) bombing out but a nearly clean sweep doesn't make sense to me at all. Esp when dude out of HS comes in more ready to play then our 2 guys who were "most college ready" (Kugler Kalis) who have been in the program for a few years each now. Not that I expect those guys to be great - but functional is not asking a lot.
August 17th, 2014 at 10:19 AM ^
I have to disagree with because of two important points.
1. As Hoke said, he's going to pick a line this week and then let them go as unit. No more shuffling of personnel or position. That alone should allow them to come together and play more as a group.
2. I'm not sure if you read the front page primers on zone blocking, and how the scheme works, but one of the things it emphasizes is you have to rep zone over and over and over. It's an experiental learning thing, so the more they do it, the more they will be comfortable with making split second decisions that determine whether a play goes for 2-3 or 10-15.
August 17th, 2014 at 11:15 AM ^
Okay, but it's not as though Michigan never ran inside zone under Borges. This isn't like the 2008 offense transitioning to the spread & shred. The line had some experience with zone schemes before Nussmeier arrived, and ought to be building on that.
I think alum96 is right on. Michigan will need to be a pass-first offense in 2014, and so the priority--not only for RBs, but for OL as well--needs to be on protection.
August 17th, 2014 at 5:07 PM ^
I agree that they will probably have to do a significant amount of passing to open up things for the running game, but my points were about whether they could get better in the next two weeks. Both of my points still hold even with what you said. Zone blocking is an art, and you don't every stop getting better at art, that's what separates it from industry. So, I still contend that they will get better over the next 13 days as they get the lion's share of the reps.
August 17th, 2014 at 10:28 AM ^
was a LB in HS and did not have coverage responsibilities. He has to learn a whole new skill set to play his position. Think of what Cam Gordon went through (HS LB and WR) asked to move to safety. Luckily Dymonte is more athletic and I believe he'll get it. Peppers has been a DB his entire HS school so of course he is going to get it.
August 17th, 2014 at 10:06 PM ^
Sounds like Dymonte Thomas RSing was a good idea then?
August 17th, 2014 at 9:51 AM ^
we don't really have one lineman that we can say is good/ solid. Yes, they are young, but they have been in the system for multiple years practicing. Other teams have done better with their young linemen. The past few years, we were not worrying about Lewan, Schofield, Omameh (2 star recruit by the way), or Schilling when they were underclassmen.
August 17th, 2014 at 1:48 PM ^
August 17th, 2014 at 9:52 AM ^
August 17th, 2014 at 9:53 AM ^
I just got the pitchforks sharpened and torches lit.
August 17th, 2014 at 10:00 AM ^
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August 17th, 2014 at 9:54 AM ^
Don't judge....season hasn't started. Our DL is very good. Defense as a whole is elite, maybe even a top 10 defense. I suggest everyone watch last years football games of the top 10 defenses in college football and see how offenses moved the ball against them, especially earlier in the season. You might see some of the same results of the scrimmage. To quote Snoop "So just chill, til the next episode." I suggest everyone take in some chemicals of choice and relax.
August 17th, 2014 at 10:01 AM ^
August 17th, 2014 at 10:10 AM ^
People forget the huge swing in depth between the start of last season and this season that is allowing the defense to play more agressive and rotate more. At CB you had Avery, Taylor, and Countess coming off an ACL tear. The back ups were 160 lb Richardson, and true freshmen Stribbling and Lewis. While those freshmen played well later in the year, they were still true freshmen. The DL was also really undersized once they lost Pipkins and since they couldn't get push from several spots on the line it hurt the performance of others like Clarke.
With the team being 5 or 6 deep at CB and at least 2 deep along the DL, the coaches can be far more agressive this year. They can get away with rushing 4 or leaving the CBs on an island and bring down the safeties. It gives Mattison a lot more options and flexibility and he can be more agressive. Don't think they can be a top 5 unit this year, but top 15 seems pretty reasonable.
August 17th, 2014 at 10:24 AM ^
August 17th, 2014 at 10:10 AM ^
August 17th, 2014 at 10:36 AM ^
If you're not going to be a balanced manager and look for pretty good offense and defense (top 25 in both units) then you probably need a top 5 -10 defensive unit if you're looking for a top 30 - 40 offensive unit to be at the level of success at which we'd like to be.
I am just throwing numbers out there admittedly but my point is that if Hoke wants to emphasize defense over offense that is fine, but then it better be one of the nation's top defenses if we're not looking to have an elite offensive unit.
Same criticism can be said of coaches of the opposite inclination.
August 17th, 2014 at 10:45 AM ^
August 17th, 2014 at 10:23 AM ^
August 17th, 2014 at 10:43 AM ^
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