Possible Replacement Coaches
There have been tons of posts about whether or not Michigan should fire RR. That is not the topic of this post. My question for the board is this:
IF Michigan does choose to fire RR at the end of this season, who are the realistic candidates to replace him? Not a wish list, but who is realistically out there that would want to leave their current job to come to Michigan?
I know that the popular candidate on this board, and everywhere else, seems to be Harbaugh. But, is there any reason to believe that he would come here?
Just curious what everyone thinks . . .
November 1st, 2010 at 10:44 AM ^
Of course head coaches are responsible for everything, but most get hired on the strength of their previous performance on one side of the ball or the other. Usually, this is offense, because it is still the "sexier" side of the ball. Only when there is a total breakdown, like The Horror and The Debacle in 2007, or like the PSU game, is defense percieved as THE issue on a team. Otherwise, whether consciouisly or subconsciously, hiring decisions are made on offense.
I know everyone is pissed, but I'll bet there is nobody as pissed right now as RR. I would imagine that the coaches' meetings won't be too pleasant this week.
November 1st, 2010 at 10:48 AM ^
I disagree, a head coach has a bias to offense or defense. Whatever side they are not biased towards will be the side they delegate more responsibilty to that coordinator. RRod is not escaping 100% blame for the Ds, nor has he ran a A+ program. But he should shoulder more of the blame for a stagnant offense than a stagnant defense.
I wish RRod could of come in and continued what Carr was doing and improve on that, but when we hired him, we knew the first couple of years would be tough growing pains in personel and systems (square peg, round hole). The clock is almost out for him, but it isn't yet.
As for defensive recruiting, yea, it hasn't been stacked with 5 star guys, but its hard to judge recruiting classes when you must play players that are not ready yet. I chalk it up to a situatation similar to the MLB and MiLB. It's not often you find a player that can go straight into the highest level and play at a high level directly from college or HS. Just because a team rushed a player on the field, he should not automatically gardner a "bust" label when he doesn't do well. When they are a junior or senior, yes, but as a true freshman or a soph who should of been RS'd? C'mon. The lack of talent of the older guys is subject to a number of factors, and twoof them being the constant changing of the d system and the recovery from the Carr's final class.
November 1st, 2010 at 11:17 AM ^
November 1st, 2010 at 11:30 AM ^
I have heard this line of reasoning a lot and am just asking.....do we know that RR forced the 3-3-5 on GERG or is it possible that they discussed it and decided that given the likely problems in the secondary, this was the best way to limit the damage? If the system and the assistants are being forced on GERG while having him work with limited talent, it seems unfair. It's hard to argue that he has done a good job in any circumstances, but if you are hiring someone to coach half your team and delegating to them while you focus on the other half, you have to let them do their thing their way with their personnel (staff and players). I don't have much confidence in GERG at this point, but that seems a fairly basic rule of delegation if that's your style.
November 1st, 2010 at 12:46 PM ^
If this is "the best way to limit damage" then we need a serious re-evaluation. Does RR and/or GERG think the alternative would be WORSE? I mean seriously, how much worse could it be?
November 1st, 2010 at 4:00 PM ^
Don't disagree with your point, but that was not my point either. I'm just saying if RR wants to delegate control of the defense, he has to give the person he delegates to control of the defense including scheme and personnel decisions. I concur, the results on defense this year could not have been any worse.
November 1st, 2010 at 1:59 PM ^
The 3-3-5 is my single biggest criticism of RR. I still support him, but neither Shafer nor Robinson were 3-3-5 guys before they came here, and this scheme, while possibly intended to protect our secondary, just can't get opposing offenses off the field.
It's just basically allowed opponents to look like they're playing against their own scout teams.
November 1st, 2010 at 10:51 AM ^
This needs to be said more often. RR is THE guy, the buck stops with him. It doesn't matter what is wrong, he is responsible for it.
*this is not a fire RR post, I think we give him one more year, but I'm just pointing out that the ultimate responsibility for the on/off field product lies with Rich Rodriguez and we can all stop making excuses for a guy who is paid more than many of us will make in a lifetime to coach a football team every year kthnx*
November 1st, 2010 at 2:09 PM ^
My spin would be just slightly different. I think that RR is the Pres/COO and therefore, "is responsible for it.". But I think DB is the CEO and ultimately, "the buck stops with him.".
November 1st, 2010 at 11:06 AM ^
offensive.
November 1st, 2010 at 12:44 PM ^
I don't know if this is a play on Starship Troopers or not but +1 anyway.
November 1st, 2010 at 10:47 AM ^
Bullshit, he is the HEAD COACH not the Offensive Coordinator, he needs to run the program as a whole. Our sucky D is caused by terrible coaching, and our coach is responsible for the fact that we are starting so many young players three years into his reign. Fuck this, the D has gotten worse every year, you can't win in the big ten with offense alone.
November 1st, 2010 at 11:22 AM ^
I am going to say I disagree with what I assume is your conclusion, that RR should be fired. I also disagree with the implication that the problems on defense are mainly caused by terrible coaching. I believe that inexperienced/suboptimally talented players are at least as much of a cause as coaching. However, as an RR supporter, I do think your comment about him being the Head Coach is a fair one. He has proven to me, at least, that he is one hell of an offensive coordinator. In order to be a successful coach at Michigan, the other two areas of his team (defense and special teams) have to be significantly better than they are today. Holding him accountable for that is absolutely fair and absolutely appropriate.
November 1st, 2010 at 5:48 PM ^
The coach is responsible for having so many inexperienced players out on the field. The coach is responsible for not being better prepared for the situations we face. The coaches are responsible for players coming in that are not working out, for players that have transfered due to clashes with the coaching staff, for players that were not able to get into our school and for not properly developing the players we do have. Ezeh and Mouton are not inexperienced, but they have also not been properly developed. Kids don't just become all americans on their own, they are developed into that by coaching.
November 1st, 2010 at 11:20 AM ^
I agree with you for the most part, but some of the blame for the defense has to be placed on RR's shoulders. Not all of it. I understand the attrition we've suffered (and really feel we beat PSU if Martin isn't hurt) and that his focus is the offense. But I do think he focused on the offense a bit to the detriment of the defense so far in his tenure. I think he is a great coach and I want him around, but I can't exonerate him from the defensive failings.
November 1st, 2010 at 10:21 AM ^
Jon Gruden? Maybe? But, I think it would be Harbaugh
November 1st, 2010 at 10:49 AM ^
Please don't bring up Gruden. We laugh every time someone on NDNation brings his name up. It's equally laughable when it shows up here.
November 1st, 2010 at 10:53 AM ^
That guy?
November 1st, 2010 at 10:21 AM ^
Throw my hat in the ring.. my experience:
3 Years Pop-Warner COY
2 Years Flag Football COY (as voted by my players)
2 League Championships
31 National Championships in Dynasty Mode
15 Heisman Winners in Dynasty Mode
November 1st, 2010 at 10:36 AM ^
...based on the fact that you were flag football COY "as voted by my players".
I often ask my kids who their favorite dad is. It's me. Always.
I'll stay away from any coaching discussion until the season is over. For now I prefer to cheer for the team and hope for at least a couple of more wins before this horrible season is over. I absolutely love our offense and I can't wait to see it next year, but our defense is painful to watch. This last bit I think we can all agree on.
November 1st, 2010 at 11:13 AM ^
I now see where all of those National Championships Alabama claims came from......
November 1st, 2010 at 11:20 AM ^
Tim Brewster?
November 1st, 2010 at 12:07 PM ^
And pass up the opportunity to give the GERG a whirl?
November 1st, 2010 at 10:21 AM ^
Me not care who new coach is as long as him not named Rich Rodriguez who make me very unhappy for three years now me deserve so much better oh well off to Fraser's for more beer and fries yum.
November 1st, 2010 at 10:21 AM ^
Harbaugh is the only candidate I can think of right now that I'd want. And I definitely see him taking the job if offered.
November 1st, 2010 at 10:58 AM ^
and he has done an unreal job at Stanford. People should read a little on the progress. There is no question he would do an awesome job here. I like Rich and a strong finish would lead me to believe this is going places.
But there is no doubt Harbaugh is a great fit both tangibly and intangibly and there is no doubt he has the ability to win big here.
If alternatives are a consideration in Mr. Brandon's decision there is at least 1 excellent one out there.
November 1st, 2010 at 11:35 AM ^
If it were 2007, I'd have no problem hiring Harbaugh. However, here's the problem I see with hiring him next year. You are essentially throwing away the next 2-3 years while he rebuilds the offense AND defense. If you can wait for him to rebuild can't you wait for RR to build an average defense? That could be as soon as next year.
At this point, I don't really care what happens to RR. If he stays, fine, if he's gone, fine. But, I think that if he is gone, you need to hire someone that wants to run our style of offense or we aren't really gaining anything by switching coaches.
November 1st, 2010 at 11:57 AM ^
I think this is really important. What would take longer, to develop a new program in 2 years or to have built a solid defense by then? I think they're both possible, but doing it with the current staff in place has so many more benefits- longevity, recruiting continuity, salvaging a terrific QB, etc. Can't be overstated.
November 1st, 2010 at 10:21 AM ^
Harbaugh is assembling top ten recruiting classes at Stanford.
Stanford is in God's country. Gorgeous place to live. Quality of life, yada, yada, yada.
Michigan is stuck with a terrible roster on defense.
There is no way Harbaugh leaves Stanford for Michigan.
Brandon is giving RR a fourth year unless there is epidemic of quitting and he completely loses control of his program. I don't see that happening. This team is still unified.
Next year is the make or break season for RR.
November 1st, 2010 at 10:29 AM ^
"There is no way Harbaugh leaves Stanford for Michigan."
I completely disagree with this. I think Harbaugh would pack his bags tonight if Dave Brandon offered him the job. Let's not forget that Harbaugh was raised by the Michigan football coaching staff.
November 1st, 2010 at 10:58 AM ^
Take a look at the videos of Harbaugh at the following link. Does that sound like a guy who would drop Stanford like an ugly date as soon as DB texts him?
In particular, pay attention to what Harbaugh mentions about his high school football experience. There is NO mention of Pioneer or Ann Arbor, or the fact that his dad coached at UM.
Pay specific attention to Harbaugh when he unequivocally states that Stanford was his #1 college choice; the reason he came to Michigan is that we offered him a football scholarship, and Stanford didn't.
http://www.stanford.edu/dept/daper/gostanford_current/cardinalred-footb…
November 1st, 2010 at 11:24 AM ^
Wow, it is shocking that the head coach of Stanford would claim his loyalty lies with Stanford.
November 1st, 2010 at 11:40 AM ^
What's shocking is that so many are missing the underlying message in Harbaugh's statements.
Jim Harbaugh didn't have to come out in public with his criticisms of the academic integrity of the program that he played in, and implicitly of the coach he played for, especially after that coach was dead and couldn't defend himself. Harbaugh was already coach at Stanford, and his job of selling Stanford in no way was dependent on him trashing the integrity of his alma mater. He could have addressed those concerns privately away from the glare of the media, and a long time ago when Bo could have responded privately, in person.
Jim Harbaugh did not have to publicly assert that he only went to Michigan was because he didn't get an offer from Stanford. Unless you had an inner urge to diss your alma mater, there's absolutely no need to say that sort of thing, especially since nobody at Stanford would be demanding that you declare them #1 in your heart forever and ever.
Jim Harbaugh didn't have to assert publicly, as he does in one of those video interviews at the link, that Stanford was the only place where you can play top-level football and get a top-level education at the same time. There are plenty of alumni players at UM who know from personal experience that's just complete bullshit. Harbaugh's job security at Stanford didn't require him to make that assertion; it would have been enough to say that the combination of football and academics at Stanford is tremendous, which is true.
The fact is that Jim Harbaugh on many occasions has taken shots, some of them cheap shots, at his alma mater when there is absolutely no reason or need for him to do so. That does not sound like a man who's itching to come back to me.
November 1st, 2010 at 11:55 AM ^
Don, I couldn't agree more. Thanks for laying everything out. I don't understand the blue bloods and the old timers would want Harbaugh, considering that they hold Bo to be a deity. I rather get someone like Dan Mullen that can make his own history at Michigan.
On the record, I will say it again, I didn't like Coach Rod and his offense while he was at WVU and didn't like it when we hired him. As a person, I was a bit worried about past players and the whole leaving WVU behind in the way that he did. But I was wrong about him as a person, he never has made any disparging remarks about Michigan and he is more of a Michigan Man than Jim Harbaugh. As painful as it may for me to say this. I am not closing the book on Harbaugh but he would have to do alot in my book to come back.
November 1st, 2010 at 12:04 PM ^
It's almost like all the Harbaugh backers on this board have forgotten (purposely or not) that he publicly threw his alma mater under the bus for no apparent reason. Not even a self-serving reason.
And now that we're struggling and people want RR out, he's the answer?
No, thanks, man. I have dignity. Like Jamie Morris said: you lose my number, and I'll lose yours.
November 1st, 2010 at 12:32 PM ^
First, I apologize for the comment, it was pretty dickish. I agree with you that Harbaugh threw Michigan under the bus, but I disagree that the comments had no purpose other than venting anger at U of M. You could be right, but it's tough to get into the psychology of the situation.
I took the comments as indication that Harbaugh is first and foremost a jackass. Secondly, I think they were meant to be a recruiting tool, putting Stanford on a pedastal as the one place to get a great education and still be on a top-notch football team. If he's going for that angle, Michigan is the obvious target, all the moreso because he knows the program inside and out. Obviously it was a lie and obviously there are plenty of people pissed off at me (I being one of them).
However, I do think that the anger at Harbaugh all goes away if he becomes the HC and starts winning. I also think that Harbaugh would have plenty of incentive to come back. Michigan is simply a better gig than Stanford, for one thing. Certainly he has a ton of talent on that team now, but Michigan is the better job in the long run. Better stadium, better facilities, better support, larger fanbase, more national exposure, etc. And I still do think that he'd want to come back to his alma mater.
That being said, I would much rather keep RR than go get someone else. Whether that is going to be possible remains to be seen, but I'm waiting until the season is over to make any judgment on that front.
November 1st, 2010 at 1:18 PM ^
I have a source in the NFL that flat old told me the Stanford staff was packed and ready to come to Michigan if the wheels fell off this year. They were expecting to be here more likely than not in 2011. He told me this in August. I think the answer to the question of whether the wheels fell off was given to us quite clearly Saturday night.
Aug
November 1st, 2010 at 2:21 PM ^
and Woolfolk were my favorite players growing up. But this: "there's absolutely no need to say that sort of thing, especially since nobody at Stanford would be demanding that you declare them #1 in your heart forever and ever"
Yeah, contrast that from what Les Miles had to say about Michigan. OSU players used to get sick of how Miles would prattle on about "how they did it at Michigan". If Harbaugh loved Michigan as much as some on this board claim he does, he'd never have sold out and made those comments. They were unprompted and as far as I know, he's never publicly retracted them.
As far as I know, the only "positive" comment he's made about Michigan was a 30 second homage to Bo calling him after he got the San Diego job.
Harbaugh, just like Toomer and Law, is dead to me.
November 1st, 2010 at 2:37 PM ^
Do you not remember that whole incident of Miles insulting Michigan to steal a recruit from Carr? I can't remember what recruit it was, but I'm sure someone on the board can help me about with that.
November 1st, 2010 at 2:42 PM ^
Was it Jai Eugene?
November 2nd, 2010 at 2:35 AM ^
And Miles is generally believed to be the one who spread the rumors to recruits about Carr having Parkinson's.
November 1st, 2010 at 11:28 AM ^
Harbaugh is not staying at Stanford. He can say all he wants but all coaches say this. Urban Meyer. Tommy Bowden. Brian Kelly. They all say the same things
I'm not guaranteeing that he comes to Michigan, but he's not staying at Stanford. He might be their coach in 2011, but definitely not 2012. Keep in mind -- he supposedly almost took the Kansas job last year.
November 1st, 2010 at 10:34 AM ^
unless there is epidemic of quitting and he completely loses control of his program
That's key. RR hasn't "lost control" of this program. The players have bought in, they're disciplined and play hard. The offense is one of the best in the country.
They aren't up to snuff on defense, particularly the secondary. RR is aware of that. There's nothing he can do about it during the season and bringing in another coach isn't going to immediately solve it.
November 1st, 2010 at 10:21 AM ^
Please stop. Please. Let T-wolf come back. Let our defense mature. Let our offense get even better. Let our coach do his best. It isn't fair yet to call for his head. I know this isn't the point of your post but it might as well be. This talk makes me more angry than the loss on Saturday.
November 1st, 2010 at 10:43 AM ^
to say lets wait for next year is the common occurrence here. If T-Wolf was on this team now, do you really think we would be significantly better. Wake up. We can't stop the run or guard a WR period. Plus, next year, there is no guarantee that he is or will be what he was (look at Vincent smith who still hasn't recovered all his speed). We lose our top LB to graduation. Mike Martin may go pro. His body of work suggests that he can't win here and the defense has shown very little that it is capable of making a giant leap forward, which is needed to become a top team in the big ten again.
Besides, the point of this topic is if he is fired, can we actually replace him with someone that is capable of turning this around? If not, give him one more year.
November 1st, 2010 at 11:25 AM ^
Yeah, I'm really going to miss Mouton.
November 1st, 2010 at 11:47 AM ^
Yeah, as a Cubs fan, the whole "wait until next year" motto sickens me.
November 1st, 2010 at 10:22 AM ^
Lloyd Brady?
November 1st, 2010 at 10:23 AM ^
1) John Gruden - Nuf said
2) Jim Harbaugh - Ditto
3) Tony Dungy - He coached Peyton Manning
4) Charlie Weis - I think he learned a lot during his last job.
Most Likely:
Nick Sheridan - 20 yrs from now RR will be looking to retire after acomplishing everything imaginable at this level.
I love this game!
November 1st, 2010 at 10:26 AM ^
We're getting Mike Hart in 20 years!