also duty-free guys falling over and grabbing their shins
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|19 weeks 17 hours ago||RR||
Give it time -- I'm sure at least a couple of posters will ride to the rescue (and disparage RichRod).
|19 weeks 17 hours ago||getting it||
He gets it, but he seems to have a poor understanding of the MSU and OSU rivalries. If he just understood them better, we'd have winning records against those teams.
|36 weeks 3 days ago||what MGoBoard says||
Forget Hall. Last night we got proof that the spread won't work in the Big Ten.
|37 weeks 11 hours ago||ability||
I'd guess that Hoke is really good at that (having dinner with recruits). I mean that as a compliment.
|37 weeks 1 day ago||Marcus!||
Right. Back then, Michigan didn't lose any games (actually true in '97) and throttled teams that tried to "spread things out" against them, like Syracuse. Remember how they held Donovan McNabb to negative rushing yards? They were TOUGH!
Until this picture leaves the collective memory of Michigan fans, Marcus Ray will continue to be remembered as one of the all-time greats, rather than a fringe NFL player (which is very impressive, but not commensurate with the praise he gets).
|37 weeks 4 days ago||turn-around||
In Brian's defense (I guess) it is pretty amazing how fickle some people have been about the coaching. The staff appears to be across-the-board awesome to them now. That doesn't square with most of the season.
|37 weeks 4 days ago||apology||
Why apologize? Extrapolating from earlier games wouldn't have been cause for optimism.
For the record, I'm at least 90% on-board with Brown Bear's post. I'd be closer to 100% if it weren't for the numerous debacles this season. I have a feeling coaching had something to do with what went on with Nebraska, Iowa, et al.
|37 weeks 4 days ago||one||
OP: "We should have a program where if you miss more than one home game you lose your season ticket priviliges."
Really? See any possible troubles with the implementation of that plan? Any?
|37 weeks 4 days ago||body of work||
Hopefully the people in charge will look at the whole season (as opposed to just the last game). I think we can safely assume that will happen.
Let's look at some other (*bad*) games:
Akron, UConn, Penn State, MSU, Nebraska, Iowa
There were too many embarrassing outings. I don't think it's reasonable to blame everything on "youth" and "Gardner." (I'd give both low percentages, in fact.)
|38 weeks 9 hours ago||know||
All I know is that I'd like to see a pre-Madonna.
|38 weeks 9 hours ago||9 to 3||
Right -- I'm pretty sure they returned eight or nine starters on offense in '08. If RichRod hadn't run off Mallet it would have been nine/ten.
Following your logic somewhat, Michigan won a national championship in Lloyd Carr's last game by beating the prior year's champ. Same team, right?
|38 weeks 12 hours ago||Go south, old man.||
For different reasons, Les and Cam would be wise to spend the rest of their careers well south of the Mason-Dixon line.
In the case of Les, he has grown accustomed to a culture of cheating (at Okie State and now at LSU). (I realize there are degrees of cheating. I just think it's worse in the SEC.)
Cam is probably a good citizen, but his world view fits the Deep South better than it does the Upper Midwest. Think Bill McCartney (outside football, that is).
|38 weeks 1 day ago||thinking||
"I don't want to hear about how his offense at VaTech isn't performing well."
Nice. It's that type of thinking that will get Michigan to multi-year mediocrity faster. Get a Michigan Man in here STAT. Who gives a @#$% if he has any genuine talent?
|38 weeks 3 days ago||mirage||
Notre Dame was about at our level in '06 (very good, but not elite). Try to find a quality win here:
Just like UM, they got beaten pretty badly when playing upper-end teams at the end of the season.
|38 weeks 3 days ago||GP||
"Their current worldview is shaped by the presumption that Rich Rodriguez single-handedly ruined Michigan football."
Appears that we have one right here! :)
Barwis Effect, I would like to note that I *love* your avatar (seriously).
|38 weeks 6 days ago||'07||
I'm surprised no one mentioned this earlier. Someone at SI (Andy Staples, maybe) did an "alternate universe" column based on that game a few years ago.
|38 weeks 6 days ago||for sure||
Well done. That's one of the plays I'd have on the list, even though it's not Michigan. Still bothers me ...
|38 weeks 6 days ago||history||
"... ours and OSU fortunes would be flipped."
I doubt it very much. Most likely we would have been pounded just like OSU, if not worse.
Maybe we don't pounded. Maybe it's a close game. How does that have anything to do with the first two debacles of the following year?
Michigan's high ranking was based largely on beating an overrated ND team at the beginning of the year.
|40 weeks 5 days ago||EMU||
Yes, this is far beneath UMich:
How does it compare to CMU, WMU, and the rest of the conference? I don't know. Anyone?
I'm not sure why so many people are (seemingly) assuming that Ron's performance is at or above what one could expect for EMU's ceiling. It has to be one of the worst FBS jobs at baseline, but shouldn't they be able to do a _little_ better than they did the past five years?
You'd think that the 2-star and low 3-star run-off from Michigan (Metro Detroit, especially) and parts of Ohio would be enough for more than a handful of 4-4 conference seasons. I would, anyway. They can sell a piece of MACtion.
|41 weeks 5 days ago||inheritance||
"... Hoke inherited a roster overstuffed with 5' 8" slot receivers and guys who could play "spur" or whatever in the 3-3-5 ..."
Stick to that narrative, Hoss, if it makes you feel better and eases the pain of the RichRod years. Please.
If you're feeling energetic, though, why don't you go here and tell me how 5'8" receivers you count:
I got two. You? I couldn't help noticing that Odoms and Gallon, to degrees, have been valued by the new regime. They've even been called "tough." Imagine that.
You're not entirely off-base. I can think of at least a couple 'tweeners (Mike Jones and Brandin Hawthorne) whose moments on field were few-and-far-between. As well, the recruiting on the lines was definitely lacking in volume. You ruined your post, though, by being simple-minded.
|43 weeks 4 days ago||rational analysis||
I agree with much of what you wrote, but any "rational analysis" has to include what I understand to be the worst RB performance (27 carries, 27 yards) in the modern era of UMich football.
I don't know who (Borges / O-line / Touissant / Brady-behind-the-scenes) is at fault there, but I tend to believe that a more balanced and unpredictable offensive game plan would've made bad luck irrelevant.
|43 weeks 5 days ago||going||
I hope Kalis stays for the duration of his eligibility, has a great career, and enjoys his time at the UMich art school. Just to get that out of the way ...
I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Urban Meyer (a smart guy of interesting character) quietly reached out to Kalis at some point (in a scenario where Mr. K found himself 2nd/3rd-string for an extended period of time). If he could effect a transfer he would, for the price of a single scholarship, win himself some neat PR and possibly a significant contributor.
Low probability, sure, but interesting IMO.
|44 weeks 1 day ago||wow||
Congratulations. Along with "Credence Tapes" I'd like to give you the "Glass is 0.031% full!" award for this thread.
Do you really think DeBord's "genius" had that much to do with the '97 championship? That was a low-complexity offense that any number of guys could have run. UMich had a very good year largely because it had NFL talent in all the position groups, highlighted by a once-in-a-lifetime DB. More NFL talent than Nebraska, in fact. (Few people realize this.)
DeBord was also a guy who, among other things, left a tire fire at CMU.
|44 weeks 3 days ago||A||
I was going to say A, and I probably should, but after the many mind-bogglingly stupid decisions last night, I'm going with B. All that Lloydball really hurt.
Whatever the outcome, let's give thanks that Hoke (unlike RichRod) isn't having to work against multiple people ostensibly on his side.
He's recruiting at a very high level that hasn't been seen at UMich since the late '90s or early '00s. He should get at least two more years to prove himself.
Question for coaches here (O-line or otherwise): What should be expected from an interior line of first-year players (recruiting rankings aside)? I honestly don't know.
|44 weeks 5 days ago||too bad||
I was hoping to hear what UVa fans thought of this:
I realize Ball State is having a good year and that Virginia hasn't been much lately, but that's still a pretty big win and I didn't see it in the CFB headlines of any sites.
|46 weeks 1 day ago||stats for the year||
Minnesota went 10-3 that year. Only one team (IU) gave up more yards on the ground than Michigan:
Tulsa (W): 254
Of course, that doesn't tell the whole story (as there's no mention of total yards), but it should give some idea of how well they ran the ball (and how shaky Michigan's defense was that year, GERG or not).
Why, again, did they fire Mason?
|48 weeks 12 hours ago||Izzo||
Izzo screams too much and (by appearances) seeks attention too often for me to like him. Can't imagine wanting to play for him, not surprised that some of his former players don't have great memories ...
- - -
I still don't think he has generally gotten recruits consistently at the level of Duke/UNC/Kansas. He didn't get to six Final Fours by accident (though he had great bracket luck for at least a couple of them).
- - -
Shortly we'll see a few comments to the effect of "Izzo completely locked down the state when Mo Taylor rolled the SUV."
Didn't hurt, but that ignores LaVell Blanchard, Lester Abram, Dion Harris, DeShawn Sims (maybe too late in the game to include here), and at least a couple others. Izzo got the Flintstones, yes, but some of his key players (Zach Randolph, Alan Anderson, Shannon Brown) were from elsewhere in the Midwest.
|50 weeks 3 days ago||catching on||
Good for Roh -- high-character guy. It would be nice to see him have at least a small NFL run.
|51 weeks 1 day ago||messenger||
I'd agree that criticism of Toney might not be appropriate here, but as a messenger he, along with the Free Press, made the problem appear to be bigger than it actually was. That hurt the program, full stop.
|1 year 1 week ago||two||
True, but I think it's fair to say that there are more binary thinkers on the hater side.
Most of RichRod's supporters here (thinking of Purple Stuff and Section 1) would probably concede that the guy has imperfections as a coach. I believe that to be the case, anyway. Section 1 can correct me if I'm wrong. :)
On the other side? There are plenty of eloquent detractors, but there are also many who, to take the '08 season as an example, can see only 3-9 and no bowl. Nothing else. Not Michael Rosenberg, Lloyd's boys (Braylon, Dhani, and especially Eric Mayes), the least talented team in the modern era, etc. All they know is that RichRod lost a lot of games, so it must be all his fault. Simpler, right? "CreedenceTapes" here seems like a fine example. Dude!
Even under ideal circumstances I don't think he ever would have reached great (11/12-win seasons) heights at Michigan, but it would've helped to not have to work against part of the fans from the beginning.