RB Rotation - Thoughts on shortening bench?
I don't post often, but have been an active reader for years. While I do think Tru has some skills that are valuable, what do you all think about the rotation of backs? I've always felt that really good RB's need a little bit of a rhythm to get going. Saquon was a great example of this where he would have a few carries with nothing and then a 50 yd TD run.
I think it's a brutal position where you definitely need to rotate a couple of guys throughout the game, but any thoughts on whether Michigan should stick with their top 2 and run them?
January 3rd, 2019 at 3:35 PM ^
I seriously doubt Zach adds any weight. At this point, speed will benefit him more - he’s plenty thick already.
January 3rd, 2019 at 1:20 PM ^
What does "dynamic" mean in this context? I hear this word a ton from analysts.
January 3rd, 2019 at 3:10 PM ^
Over you, through you, around you, away from you...and, oh, he can catch the ball too. Charbonnet looks like a DYNAMIC back to me...he's unmistakably a football player...no woos in that kid. He is top 3 in his class at RB and if he strictly played defense he is might be a top 3 LB as well. He and Turner look to offer Michigan the best 1-2 RB options than they have had in-maybe forever.
Here, for Michigan to ascend, they are going to have to put more eggs in their top players' baskets. This coaching staff is going to quit trying to act as though they can go 3 and 4 "Alabama" deep and compete with the elite schools. And this isn't the NFL where you get to pick first if you finish last. You've got to win with what you've got. This 2019 class looks to be another step in the right direction but this coaching staff has got to get the job done on the field too.
January 3rd, 2019 at 9:50 AM ^
i really hope evans finds his groove. his freshman year was so promising.
not just the slot or open space plays, but the shifty and juking plays he used to make.
last year the opinion was that he had the bad luck of the OL not playing especially well whenever he was fed the ball but this year it seems he just didn't get into the flow.
January 3rd, 2019 at 9:52 AM ^
Next year Evans and Wilson will get a good amount of carries. Maybe Turner passes someone. If Charbonnet is as good as he looks on tape, he's going to need some touches too.
By 2020, Charbonnet and Turner are going to have a ton of carries.
January 3rd, 2019 at 10:03 AM ^
I'm not so sure about Evans getting a good amount of carries next season. Kinda feels like the staff is trying to find anyone besides Evans to run the ball. He split the second reps with Tru Wilson on the season and Tru was more effective in his runs (6ypc to 5.4ypc -- and if you throw out Evans long of 61 yards on the season, his ypc drops to 4.6). Then he split reps with Turner -- who they were clearly redshirting this season -- in the bowl, and Turner was more effective on his runs (7 carries apiece, 4.6ypc to 2.9 ypc). If they don't redshirt Turner this season, I think he likely takes the bulk of Evans' carries.
I could see a world where he drops to 4th on the depth chart behind Turner, Charbonnet, and Wilson next season.
January 3rd, 2019 at 10:17 AM ^
I'll say this much, he looks much slower than he was as a freshman. Not all weight/mass gain is good gain.
He should be used as a third down back and a pass catcher. I'd love to see a world where Turner gets the most carries next season.
January 3rd, 2019 at 10:25 AM ^
Didn't Tru get more involved once Evans got hurt, though?
January 3rd, 2019 at 2:48 PM ^
that's my guess. evans more of a third down back. i just hope he improves his blocking so he can pass protect and get into the open space for screens.
January 3rd, 2019 at 10:08 AM ^
Zach is enrolling next week, so 9 months in the Herbert S&T program should get him ready. He seems like a great hitter - played both ways in high school at featured RB and LB. He should become our featured power back for the next 3-4 years if he stays healthy.
Rotation will be scheme related, but expect four guys to get the touches - Evans, Turner, Zach and Wilson probably in that order if everyone stays healthy. Would like to see Evans more involved in the pass game - screens, wheels, etc. Dude can break ankles in space.
Overall, I think our run / pass split is going to change as we don't have a proven power RB as good as Higdon. Shea indicated that 2019 will "open things up a bit" which certainly fits the personnel strengths at WR and RB. We really need to work on pass pro to support that as it was really poor versus OSU and Florida. We peaked at Penn State and then seemed to regress. Might need to consider more rotation at OL to have more gas in the tank at season end.
January 3rd, 2019 at 10:24 AM ^
Who rotates their OL? Offhand I can't think of anyone who does that including any Michigan team in the past.
It could just be that the regression in pass pro was due to facing better DLs.
January 3rd, 2019 at 10:55 AM ^
I'm not sure the Herbert S&T program needs to be all-in for RBs and WRs. It really appears that Evans regressed by losing speed in place of gaining bulk. Same could be said of the other skill players. They just seemed 0.5 - 1 step slower.
I have no way of quantifying that and freely admit that its all feelz...
January 3rd, 2019 at 3:37 PM ^
Excellent point and I feel the same anout the linemen. Time to embrace speed over size.
January 3rd, 2019 at 4:11 PM ^
I don't think Evans regressed at all. I think he just didn't improve so we rode Higdon a lot more
Evans actually averaged about the same YPC this season as he did last season
January 3rd, 2019 at 9:56 AM ^
I don't care so much about rotation at this point. I assume it will be Turner, Evans, and Charbonnet.
I just want to see the staff use Evans properly. He should be utilized more like James Williams is with WSU. Evans was viewed as a slot WR coming out. He has great receiving skills. Our staff's refusal to utilize him in the pass game is atrocious coaching.
January 3rd, 2019 at 10:28 AM ^
I know that this is a common narrative, but Evans was 5th on the team in receptions, and that includes missing about 1/4 of the season with injury and playing behind Higdon, who had a great season.
January 3rd, 2019 at 10:34 AM ^
He had 18 catches in 10 games. That's not even close to enough.
I think it was Chris Howard who kept harping on the staff for not developing timing and chemistry in the pass game with some of our easier match ups early in the season. He said they know they can run the ball on those chumps, but that they needed to let Shea and his receivers develop chemistry so they had it when it was really needed against the tougher competition. Timing and chemistry is different in game than it is in practice.
Staff never did that and we know the results.
January 3rd, 2019 at 12:31 PM ^
18 catches in 10 games for a RB who is only seeing a third of the snaps is not a low number.
January 3rd, 2019 at 1:33 PM ^
Chris's #1 skill is his ability as a receiving back. That's why many scouts expected him to play slot WR at this level. 18 catches for him is way too low.
Involving your RBs in the passing game is a good thing. Get him isolated on LBs and let him go to work.
January 3rd, 2019 at 11:23 AM ^
Yes... and the top 4 on the receiving list also caught too few passes.
We should be getting EVERYONE more receptions... instead we choose to:
1) Have an overly run heavy play mix given our talent
2) Play insanely SLOW, limiting the total number of plays.
January 3rd, 2019 at 1:35 PM ^
Evans should be getting at least 3-4 catches a game whether that's in the regular passing game or designed plays for him. He's to dynamic of a player to be getting 1-2 catches a game
January 3rd, 2019 at 9:57 AM ^
Tru is a great scout team back. He should not see the field over Evans, Charbonnet, or Turner.
January 3rd, 2019 at 10:04 AM ^
Tru was a lot better at running the ball than Evans this season.
January 3rd, 2019 at 10:24 AM ^
and best pass blocker at the position, by a mile. He has good vision, wish he had some more speed! Would have been a 4 star out of De La Salle.
January 3rd, 2019 at 10:30 AM ^
I like stars as much as anyone, but you are spot on. Not only was Tru a significantly better runner than Evans this year, but he was way better at pass blocking. And it wasn't close. Evans has been ineffective this season. Tru, playing his first season, was more effective.
January 3rd, 2019 at 11:22 AM ^
Exactly.
Too many "experts" here completely forget about the importance of pass blocking.
January 3rd, 2019 at 3:40 PM ^
Wilson is a decent back, but if he’s in our top 3 we aren’t recruiting well enough.
January 3rd, 2019 at 10:30 AM ^
If Tru came in as a 4* and had the exact same production, no one would say that. He earned playing time by being the best pass blocker and a solid runner. He showed more than Samuels and Walker ever did, but people kept asking to see more of them.
January 3rd, 2019 at 9:57 AM ^
I agree in the sense we don't have a ton of offensive cohesion. It would be preferable to keep your best players on the field the majority of the time. The same goes for the WRs, yet rarely are DPJ, Black, & Collins on the field together. It doesn't make sense to me, but I'm not a coach so I'm sure there's a rational reason why it is the way it is. The question is, is it worth it?
January 3rd, 2019 at 10:01 AM ^
I thought the rotation of the backs has been better under Jay than it was under TW. At least now, Hidgon was able to get into a groove every so often. Under TW, they seemed to rotate much more and in very questionable situations.
January 3rd, 2019 at 10:04 AM ^
Charbonnet as the feature back. Evans as change of pace, sweep, pass catcher guy (but that won't happen).
January 3rd, 2019 at 10:05 AM ^
I don’t know if it will be a true running back by committee next year but I believe that 4 guys will split carries somewhat evenly. Some days we will go with the hot hand and one guy will get more carries, some day another guy will.
Our top 4 backs combined for 423 carries last year with Karan having more than half. If I had to guess I would say next year will look maybe something like this:
Evans 125
Turner 110
Charbonnet 110
Wilson 80
January 3rd, 2019 at 2:55 PM ^
i hope you're wrong. i really like the upside in turner based on his limited sample. hopefully, charb is similar. i hope one of those two guys takes control and blows us away. i just don't see it with evans.
January 3rd, 2019 at 3:31 PM ^
If that happens the wailing across Michigan nation will be both pathetic and justifiable. Michigan is not Alabama. Charbonnet would see the field for Alabama-and maybe Turner...Evans and Wilson would not. When you're a program that is needing to ascend you have got to play your best players. My prediction in your scenario is that Michigan would lose at least four games and would return to a decline-if this happens. This is on the coaches as much as anyone.
There are ways to get Evans on the field with an opportunity to succeed-being the lead RB is not one of them. And Michigan has Giles coming in...the kid is still running free-nobody can catch him. Play your best players!!!
January 3rd, 2019 at 10:08 AM ^
January 3rd, 2019 at 10:13 AM ^
so you don't like inside traps with 3 TE, 1 FB and no wideouts?
January 3rd, 2019 at 10:12 AM ^
I favor a main back who gets spelled after long runs and short periods when the team is up, pretty much like Higdon was used this year. When he was hurt, I thought the rotation sucked, new guy every few plays. Evans is a guy who needs alot of carries to get a rhythm and i felt he regressed this year. He didn't hit the holes hard, pussyfooted around, and missed too many holes. And nothing is as annoying as a back who just ripped off a 50 yard run getting a handoff on the very next play. Usually does not work out well.
January 3rd, 2019 at 10:23 AM ^
I think Tru and Evans get the bulk of the carries next season. Charbonnet will come along, but he’s got to get faster IMO. Yes, I’ve watched his film, dude is big, agile, and has great vision, but he is not fast enough to be one of those game changers as a freshman.
I think we all want to see a more wide open offense. I’ll believe it when I see it. Harbaugh is going to establish the run, it’s in his DNA.
January 3rd, 2019 at 11:32 AM ^
Why did Turner and Evans (7 each) get more carries than Wilson (3) in the bowl game? I don't think Wilson is a major factor in the lead running back role for next year. It's Turner, Evans, and/or Charbonnet with Wilson factoring in as a backup, IMO.
January 3rd, 2019 at 10:25 AM ^
My feeling is that Tru has better vision in traffic than Evans, but Evans is better in space and has better long speed. Tru is better to my eyes after contact as well. Evans is shifty, but doesn't look or run like he is taller and heavier than Higdon, though he is.
Some teams have a single RB that does everything (PSU with Barkley, Kentucky with Snell, etc.) - they can hammer and they can weave. Teams without that single all-purpose back can mitigate that by repping two backs with different strengths and I think we'll continue to see that at UM going forward like we did with Higdon and Evans. The problem with that, though, is telegraphing what you might be doing depending on which back is on the field.
Maybe Charbonnet coming in, if this is a true meritocracy, will solve some of this. Kid's got fantastic tape.
I'd like to see what Turner can do - in limited time he looked like he has a good set of wheels and good vision.
Should be a good competition.
January 3rd, 2019 at 10:34 AM ^
Best to call Jay @ 734-763-4422 and discuss the idea with him.
January 3rd, 2019 at 12:18 PM ^
The funny thing is, he’ll probably talk with you for a bit.
January 3rd, 2019 at 10:44 AM ^
I think the position is wide open. Higdon was average and he got most of the carries. JMO the only hope is someone steps way up.
maybe better news later after someone stays at a Holiday Inn Express.....
January 3rd, 2019 at 11:01 AM ^
Now Higdon was average? Higdon was great this season, he was our best player on offense. Higdon was our most explosive back and could get the tough yards. I'd be thrilled if any back we have next year is 3/4s of the RB that Karan Higdon was. Higdon was great save for 1 game vs Rutgers where they stacked the box against him.
We saw what our offense looked like without Higdon in the Peach Bowl.
January 3rd, 2019 at 10:45 AM ^
We haven't had a great RB since Mike Hart graduated and I'd honestly like to know why. I see other teams have them, but not us. What are we doing wrong? Recruiting? Development? Is Zach Charbonnet finally going to be that guy for us?
I think we've done RB by committee because in all honesty none of them were all that great. Good, sure, but not great.
January 3rd, 2019 at 12:26 PM ^
1. OLine play
2. QB play
3. Recruiting (RBs - whiffs and misevaluations)
Any order, but all three have contributed. We haven’t been elite in any of those areas.
January 3rd, 2019 at 11:04 AM ^
Dang ....at least give them all a place to sit!
January 3rd, 2019 at 11:26 AM ^
We need two every down backs, and a 3rd down scat back for optimal success. If one back is felling it, we have to feed him the rock, but Harbaugh loves to rotate RB’s virtually every play.
January 3rd, 2019 at 11:38 AM ^
Let's switch out half the personnel every play on offense so we can use the full playclock and win the battle for time off possession.
/s
January 3rd, 2019 at 11:51 AM ^
I’m hoping to see less of Ben Mason in extremely obvious situations from the tailback position. My opinion is that quick hitters from closer are far more effective with him.