Rational Takes - Who do we get?
I'm a longer term season ticket holder (back when you could actually go to games and things like that). I'm upset with this outcome and you too are probably upset with this outcome.
Rational takes then: who do we get if the Harbaugh experiment hasn't worked? Looking back at RichRod, Hoke and now Harbaugh (and I acknowledge the this team is a lot better off than Hoke era) but not good enough.
So who do we get?
Do we sell our souls and get Urban. Honestly, on this day, I think I'm willing.
October 31st, 2020 at 4:48 PM ^
Hoke had one win and three blowout losses, Harbaugh is 3-3
October 31st, 2020 at 9:17 PM ^
True. I remember when we hired him, rolled out the red carpet and said please savior of the maize and blue can you commit to being a little better than Hoke, win 50% of your games against MSU and Notre Dame and lose every game to Ohio State?!?! Harbaugh said I can do all that for 7.5 mil a year!
October 31st, 2020 at 4:03 PM ^
Dream Coach: Urban Meyer.
Realistically: Luke Fickell.
October 31st, 2020 at 4:20 PM ^
I mean, Ohio State takes our coaches and thrives. We've done well in the past when poaching assistants from them (Bo). Might as well try the Fick to see if he's really worth it
October 31st, 2020 at 4:27 PM ^
If we’re being real, Matt Campbell has done nothing to make me think he’d be better than Harbaugh. At least Fickell has turned Cincinnati into a GO5 contender and playoff dark horse.
October 31st, 2020 at 4:41 PM ^
Bullshit. Do you know how bad Iowa State has been?! And he has them near Big 12 contention. Maybe not literally, but he's a game or 2 away the past few years and has won some big time games. At Iowa. Fucking. State.
October 31st, 2020 at 5:51 PM ^
This!! People want to tag on Matt Campbell but have no clue the hell Iowa State was when he took over.
October 31st, 2020 at 4:03 PM ^
We are an arrogant program, of an arrogant school, in an arrogant city with arrogant fans.
It doesn't matter. Until we stop thinking we are better than everyone else just because of our helmets we will always be a disappointment.
October 31st, 2020 at 4:10 PM ^
I think the arrogant thing is played out TBH. I haven’t heard anything remotely arrogant or disrespectful out of the FB program in a while.
Not executing and just straight up poor coaching will be the demise of any team. Just sad we’re in year 6 of this stuff. Hot seat time I guess.
October 31st, 2020 at 4:20 PM ^
Nope, the Arrogant adjective is accurate. Brutus is correct. This culture is inbred throughout Washtenaw County. The institution thrives in its mediocrity as long as they fill seats and sell merchandise. Just like the Detroit Lions. A big fucking traditional joke.
October 31st, 2020 at 5:38 PM ^
Whatever
November 1st, 2020 at 12:22 AM ^
You realize none of the players are from Washtenaw County?
October 31st, 2020 at 4:20 PM ^
Exactly. We have an arrogant fanbase. Can't fix that.
I don't think our team is arrogant. They just suck.
October 31st, 2020 at 4:35 PM ^
The arrogance comes from the mindset that they are on the same level as Ohio State and success should be judged by wins and losses in that game.
They haven't been on the same level as Ohio State in about 20 years. Michigan needs to realize they are an Iowa or Northwestern (and have been for a while) and operate from a standpoint of how do they consistently start to compete with and beat Penn State and Wisconsin, and dominate the rest of our conference and non-conference schedule. Don't aim for chasing Ohio State when Penn State, Wisconsin, and State are your true competition.
Beyond that, quit trying to recruit athletes that are targets of Alabama, Clemson, OSU etc. You're not in that class. Focus on attainable talent and build a base. They are chasing too many high-end guys to come in and fix things, and when those guys sign and don't work out, or don't come at all there's nothing left to replace them.
All of those issues stem from arrogance.
October 31st, 2020 at 4:11 PM ^
This right here is underratedly one of if not the biggest reasons of Michigans struggles. Cant be the Leaders and Best if you're not the Leaders and Best.
October 31st, 2020 at 4:12 PM ^
This is important to note and is true. You can tell from how people talk and expectations on here. Which is funny because the football team really hasn’t done much of anything in two decades.
Nobody outside Ann Arbor believes the type around this program and hasn’t for a long time.
November 1st, 2020 at 11:21 AM ^
It goes back much further than two decades honestly. Outside of ‘97 Michigan has been a consistent 9-10 win team for many decades. That’s it. That’s Michigan football. Go ahead and look at our annual record by year.
October 31st, 2020 at 4:33 PM ^
I totally agree. I have always felt the University would rather be champions in life than win football games. That won't change no matter who coaches here so we have to get someone who hires top notch recruiters and has a scheme that overcomes deficiencies. Harbaugh still wants to line up and run over you...worked against Minny, not against State. Indiana is good in the middle too so I anticipate a long day next week as well. You have elementa of speed in space but it is stubbornly blended with 80's football. Better teams will eat it alive. Get someone who focuses on recruiting 24/7, its the lifeblood of a program.
October 31st, 2020 at 4:35 PM ^
Which means the James Earl Jones video and all things like it need to be nixed. All of that shit. Perhaps you return to some of it after we have proven ourselves for a few years.
October 31st, 2020 at 4:36 PM ^
By arrogant, do you mean that we have high expectations that haven't been met in years so why do we still have those expectations? If anything, I think we have the sports version of PTSD -- an unabated sense that nothing is going to go our way. I don't know anyone who thinks we're better than we are.
October 31st, 2020 at 4:53 PM ^
We are better when it comes to helmets
October 31st, 2020 at 9:55 PM ^
We are more arrogant about our academics (and rightfully so). We aren’t arrogant about football.
October 31st, 2020 at 4:04 PM ^
We get all Fire Harbaugh threads deleted, that’s what we get.
October 31st, 2020 at 4:09 PM ^
No, there's still one on the 2nd page with 86+ posts already.
How many Fire Harbaugh! threads are needed?
(Edit @4:30pm:. I was wrong---besides this thread, there are 2 other threads of 86+ posts each left up on the 2nd page with the same central theme of coaching regime change.)
October 31st, 2020 at 4:14 PM ^
How many? Hmmm I’d say about as many dink-and-dunk passes Milton threw under 2 mins needing two scores. So like 4 or 5 I guess.
JK. I love harbaugh but this shit is getting depressing.
October 31st, 2020 at 4:18 PM ^
Zero? I think we need to bleed the emotion and evaluate the season. If we play like this every game, problem. If we pull through and develop, that is good coaching. This isn’t an arrogant take, sometimes the better team comes out flat footed.
On to the next game.
go blue
October 31st, 2020 at 5:47 PM ^
What happened to the Mel Tucker is better thread?
October 31st, 2020 at 4:04 PM ^
I keep saying it...we have no options.
There is NO ONE definitively better.
These threads about Harbaugh are dumb.
I asked it in the thread. Give me 5 names Michigan can get better than Harbaugh.
October 31st, 2020 at 4:07 PM ^
Well, apparently Mel Tucker.
October 31st, 2020 at 5:01 PM ^
If you take him you got to take the rutgers loss with it.
October 31st, 2020 at 6:37 PM ^
ah, good point. Then again, 7 turnovers tend to result in a Big Fat "L" no matter who you're playing.
October 31st, 2020 at 4:08 PM ^
If this was reality and Michigan did not have other options, why the fuck would anyone keep watching?
How do you know the new coach won't be better until they are given a chance? (Spare me Rich Rod, they took a chance, didn't work, that should not cripple the program from trying again).
Any above average coach can do exactly what this fucking staff is doing. If Michigan wants to pretend they are an elite program, they have to let this clown go.
October 31st, 2020 at 4:09 PM ^
It’s stupidity like this as to why we hang on to a failing Harbaugh. Mel Tucker for one. He just kicked our ass.
October 31st, 2020 at 4:17 PM ^
Harbaugh has had 5 full years and year 6 is atrocious already. He has had plenty of time. Move on!
October 31st, 2020 at 4:18 PM ^
Luke Fickell for sure.
Lots of "possible" guys who for sure won't be worse, like Brohm and Stoops.
Lots of other guys who may have upside and likely won't be worse.
We've got plenty of options. Harbaugh fucking sucks.
October 31st, 2020 at 4:23 PM ^
There is NO ONE definitively better.
You're right, but there rarely are. Dabo, Smart, Fisher, & Riley weren't either. The only real ones were Meyer at OSU and Saban at Bama. Even Meyer at Florida and Saban at LSU weren't. JH was every bit as a sure thing as they were at their first stops. So, you can stick with what you've got or you can try a less proven guy. I'm sure guys like PJ Fleck or Matt Campbell would be interested and maybe they can do better.
The problem is JH does lots of things well. He checks a lot of the boxes. But, he also misses enough of them that he can't seem to put it all together. I think this year is odd enough due to Covid that he gets one more year. Then, 2021 is make a break for him. He doesn't need to beat OSU or get to the playoffs. But, he needs to beat everyone else and be competitive with OSU and win a bowl game and get to 11 wins IMHO. But, he'll probably just keep doing what he's doing and stay until he's had enough which is probably still several more years.
October 31st, 2020 at 4:33 PM ^
What does he do well?
He beats the teams he is supposed to (normally) and cannot get enough out of his team to rise up and beat a better team.
His press conferences are awkward and painful to listen to, he is pretty emotionless on the field now (which is bizarre considering he was a maniac the first couple years), he's stubborn beyond belief with his game plan... What exactly does he do well? Represents the university as a "Michigan Man?"
October 31st, 2020 at 4:37 PM ^
What does he do well?
Wins 9.4 games per year and averages a top 11 recruiting class every year. The number of guys on earth that do that and are still actively coaching is a short list of like 6-8 names and I don't think any of them are coming to UM.
October 31st, 2020 at 4:42 PM ^
Look man, if you are happy with him beating inferior teams and losing to better teams and not winning championships, stay the course.
I expect more. He was brought in to win MULTIPLE championships, beat OSU, and make this program a power.
What he's done is turned them into a top 25 program. Fucking yay.
October 31st, 2020 at 6:43 PM ^
Look man, if you are happy with him beating inferior teams and losing to better teams and not winning championships, stay the course.
I'm not happy, but I honestly don't have a problem with being #2 in the conference nor not making the playoffs. I can deal with 9.4 wins per year as long as we beat OSU once in a while and we win some big games. But, I don't like never winning the games we "could" like Bama, FSU, OSU, PSU on the road, Wiscy on the road, etc.
I expect more. He was brought in to win MULTIPLE championships, beat OSU, and make this program a power.
I think people have a misguided conception of UM. UM under JH is no different than it historically has been other than one thing...losing to OSU. But, the old great teams would have never won a NC in this era. The '97 team would have never made it through the playoffs. All those good Bo teams always lost their bowl games. The reality is times have changed. You can't share B1G championships any more. You can't share NCs anymore. There is only one way to win a NC title...beating OSU, PSU, & Wiscy in the same year in addition to having to beat 2 of Clemson, Bama, LSU, Oklahoma, UGA, or ND in the playoffs. Zero historically old UM teams could have done that. The unfortunate reality is UM has never been at that level and the difference between the have's (OSU, Bama, & Clemson) and the have nots (everyone else) is getting larger. And, unfortunately one of the have's (OSU) is not only in our conference, but our division. This fundamentally blocks any championship of any kind unless you can beat them, which you can't because they are also now better than they've ever been.
What he's done is turned them into a top 25 program. Fucking yay.
It beats 3-9, 5-7, 7-5, 8-5, 7-6, & 5-7. That were all of our last two HC's seasons minus Hoke's only good year.
October 31st, 2020 at 7:11 PM ^
To your middle paragraph, that's just such a loser (not calling you a loser) way to look at things. Was Clemson a power before Dabo? They were a super average program. MSU has been an historically medicore program, and they were able to rise up for the better part of a decade and make the playoff and win titles.
Saying, "Oh well, that's we are, better accept it" is absolute chicken shit.
October 31st, 2020 at 4:24 PM ^
So Harbaugh goes 0 - 10 vs OSU and you just keep him because???
That’s not how sports is supposed to work.
October 31st, 2020 at 4:28 PM ^
1) Brent Venables
2) Mark Stoops
3) Luke Fickell
4) Matt Campbell
5) PJ Fleck
October 31st, 2020 at 4:43 PM ^
1) No
2) Maybe
3)Yes
4) No
5) Maybe
October 31st, 2020 at 4:37 PM ^
Too many to list. The burden is on YOU to let us know why they shouldn't be fired immediately. Not the other way around. It's either a meritocracy or it's not. And we know at this point, it is not.
October 31st, 2020 at 4:04 PM ^
I’d rather have Teddy Ruxpun and H.R Puff’n’Stuf at the moment. But sadly they’re washed up too.
October 31st, 2020 at 4:04 PM ^
A 35-42 yo DC of our coach had any balls.
October 31st, 2020 at 4:04 PM ^
How about pluck someone off of the osu staff like Kerry Coombs?
October 31st, 2020 at 4:04 PM ^
Luke Fickell if he would come. Good coach and maybe a Buckeye to break the bad mojo.
October 31st, 2020 at 4:11 PM ^
Now THIS is brilliant. Hire a Buckeye to beat a Buckeye and break the bad mojo. This I can back.