The negativity about Coach Harbaugh is irrational.
Here me out.... Through his first 4 years Harbaugh is 38-14. Saban was barely better than that at Lsu and Bama after his first 4 years. Harbaugh has a better record than B Kelly, Dabo and Dantonio did at the sane time. Being pissed is normal and ok, but it doesn’t mean we should want a new coach. Players have to be faster, stronger and more aggressive... all there is to it. Wake up people... it’s coming... this thing is going to be rolling. Cheer up, a new year is upon us.
PS - Be careful what you wish for.
December 30th, 2018 at 10:23 PM ^
Ok, usually people let things like what you said slip. But this time, what did you mean, exactly?
December 30th, 2018 at 10:26 PM ^
Maybe you didn't catch that was a joke.
December 30th, 2018 at 9:08 PM ^
He lost all credibility when he said no major changes on the staff. That was a dumb statement and a slap in the face to the fans and supporters of the program. I don't want Harbaugh fired. I want hin to wake the fuck up and coach like he wants it. Players shouldn't be coming out flat in every big game. That's on the coaches.
December 30th, 2018 at 9:20 PM ^
There will be minor changes but we won’t see a real change in philosophy on the field.
Prime example: look at Chris Evans. He was a dynamic change we had at RB as a freshman. Someone with a great first burst and was agile. Instead of continuing to use him that way, he’s bulked up what looks like 25 pounds and now is a shell of himself. Evans never had the top end speed of Higdon, but he reached top speed almost instantaneously. Now his top speed is lower and he does not have the makeup to be a bell cow like Higdon.
Gentry is a matchup problem when he’s used as a shift from WRs. He is not a matchup problem as a No. 1 option. Lining him up with the big 3 out there is when you get the matchup problems because you can’t leave DPJ Nico or Black on a safety or LB. Instead we put him out there in sets with McKeon and Oliver Martin or Ronnie Bell out wide and wonder why no one is open.
A bunch of square pegs being forced into round holes going on here.
December 30th, 2018 at 9:15 PM ^
Irrational, huh. When JH called for that stupid pass play in 2nd play on O in OSU game, after Higdon ran for 8 on 1st down, and Shea was sacked for 5 yard loss, I knew JH had lost it at that point. I turned to my wife and said, JH will lose us this game and then we will lose our bowl game no matter who we played. My prediction not only came true but the ensuing blow outs more than legitimized my thoughts about JH. He really does not have his head in the games and all the clock mismanagement issues and lack of utilizing key players only reinforces this.
Everyone still on the JH Train needs to get their heads out of their arses and realize...we’ve reached our ceiling, so be happy where we’re at or you will only be sorely disappointed moving forward.
December 30th, 2018 at 9:15 PM ^
Who else would you want to run this program. He runs a clean program, players graduate, we are getting more depth every year. Does he need to make changes? Yes, a new OC is needed and I am sure it will happen.
December 30th, 2018 at 9:30 PM ^
A new OC? Probably. An OC with offensive autonomy like Brown has on D? Unlikely. My guess is Pep is gone we hire a good spread OC but will be more of a passing game position coach with playcling and game planning continuing to come from Jim
December 30th, 2018 at 9:46 PM ^
A new OC was needed BEFORE this past season. What makes you so sure it will now happen? I’m tired of this shoulda, coulda, woulda crap. We all know the definition of insanity and I feel like ever since the 2017 season, this has been the case.
December 30th, 2018 at 9:30 PM ^
Fuck it.. Michigan is a basketball school now anyways.
December 30th, 2018 at 9:30 PM ^
Only idiots with hot takes think he needs to be fired. He does need to get some decent wins soon though. It’s year 5. The excuses should have ran out a year or more ago. I don’t care if he makes 3 billion dollars a year or 3 dollars. He needs a meaningful win (OSU) and at least a Big 10 title soon. That is why he was brought to UM. I have no fucks to give about a loss in the fucking Peach Bowl. Most people have already forgotten that UM played in the Peach bowl. This would have been the case win or lose. I do care about how shitty the offense has looked the last couple of years. And to a lesser extent the defense in recent big games. I don’t want to hear any more excuses about youth, experience, QBs, etc. Just get it fucking done. Two coaches who are called idiots or psychopaths all the time on this board have played and/or won the Big 10 since Harbaugh has been at UM yet here we are posting in another “things are fine” thread after another disappointing season. Get it done.
December 30th, 2018 at 10:00 PM ^
UP VOTE!
When does it get done? I don’t see it happening.
December 30th, 2018 at 10:29 PM ^
It's year 4.
December 30th, 2018 at 9:32 PM ^
This is going to be another long offseason.....
December 30th, 2018 at 9:32 PM ^
Plain and simple, winning cures all. Last year the bugaboo was third string qbs and turnstyle o-line. This year it's bad defense in big games, needing a MORE improved O-Line, and better playcalling/utilization of our skill players. I don't care if it's luck or a curse or Pep Hamilton or Don Brown's huge balls that's causing the losses in big games. We as fans will sit here and grasp at straws because that's what we do. We'll put a narrative together whichever way the wind is blowing that day and it'll be right until it's not. The team will win, and we'll be happy, until they lose, which will be UNACCEPTABLE. Who gives a shit.
Go ahead and fire him and see what happens. We're not hiring a cheatin' ass coach and this ain't basketball with JB either. So we'll get another good coach who has to play with B+ talent compared to Bama/OSU/Clemson and who maybe makes a decision or two differently than the fan base would like and we'll win some games and maybe beat OSU here an there, but this program isn't turing into Alabama. We're not getting "back" to where Alabama was because we haven't been there in the modern era. We won't beat the best coaches on the planet because of things that put us at a disadvantage. So fire him, don't fire him, whatever.
We'll continue to be at best a "contending for B1G championship" team every year. At worst - well we saw that with Rich Rod and Hoke. For everyone on the board waiting for us to be in the NC game 50% of the time and going toe to toe with Bama, you're just trying to be unhappy. No offensive coordinator or better coaching attitude or whatever will change that. So - enjoy Michigan football for what it is and frankly almost always has been the last 4 decades. Since 1982 when I was born, we have:
- 7 outright B1G championships, 5 shared B1G championships - that 12 in 36 years.
- 1 shared national title that we won 21 years ago in that same window and before that you'd have to back to....1948 to find our next most recent title.
- 15 wins against OSU in those 36 years. One tie and 20 losses. 2 of those wins have come since the Y2K scare and the new millenium.
This isn't to shit on the program but what bizarro universe do you people live in where we are better than that track record? Keep the coach, get a new one - whatever. What Bama, Clemson, and OSU have done in the last decade is goddamn remarkable and if we're shooting for that, we need to trade in a lot more than our head coach.
December 30th, 2018 at 9:34 PM ^
I posted this in another thread, but this board (and fanbase) is toxic as hell right now.
Michigan is a Top 10 program since Harbaugh took over. End of story. He hasn't gotten them to the level of Alabama, Clemson, Oklahoma, or Ohio State. Like he said in the post game, we've gotten to the hump, just haven't gotten over it.
Honestly, the last two games sucked. Doesn't take away the previous 10 weeks where they were one of the best 4 teams in the country.
I'm okay with Michigan being consistently in the hunt for the CFP, winning 10+ games every year. Without Urban at Ohio State, I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and realize that it's been a 'B' so far. The lack of titles/CFP appearances and wins over OSU keep it from being an 'A'.
December 30th, 2018 at 10:49 PM ^
Are we really a top ten program? We've only finished as a high of #10 once in 4 years.
December 31st, 2018 at 9:19 AM ^
#9 in win-loss percentage for Power 5 programs over the past four years
https://www.teamrankings.com/ncf/trends/win_trends/?range=yearly_since_2015
The order won't be the same year after year, so three 10ish years plus an unranked (35ish?) 2017 when added together results in #9 over the four years.
I'd group the top teams on that list as Elite=Bama, Clemson, OSU, Oklahoma, & Georgia. We're in the next 10 or so, definitely not in the elite bucket.
December 30th, 2018 at 9:34 PM ^
Glad you’re back Shea, but I’m sure you’ve noticed the difference vs. SEC that our offensive execution needs to be much much quicker, with much quicker/short strike passes.
Not only is our play selection predictable (B/C gap runs on every 1st dwn), but everything is waaayyy too slooowww - runs and passes, and way too easy for the defense to read during the play.
Alabama/Clemson/OSU/OU offensive play execution is light years faster than ours
December 30th, 2018 at 9:46 PM ^
I'm a belieber
December 30th, 2018 at 9:48 PM ^
Yup. Call me an apologist, but Harbaugh remains our best chance to win championships in the foreseeable future. He’s been underwhelming in some aspects, but his tenure is night and day with what came directly before him. He’s still recruiting at a high level.
Its beyond frustrating to be an M fan right now...but that doesn’t mean Fire everyone. That is completely irrational.
December 30th, 2018 at 10:05 PM ^
Fair, but it would be nice to see some evidence that he recognizes his unadaptable self is a huge part of the problem.
December 30th, 2018 at 10:34 PM ^
Huh, funny, but I did see him hire Ed Warinner and Jim McElwain. That's some adapting moves there.
December 30th, 2018 at 11:42 PM ^
Not adaptable? Don Brown, Ed Warinner, a new S&C coach, etc. People have no clue or patience. Get over your emotions.
December 30th, 2018 at 9:51 PM ^
So the "High" standards of Michigan is being measured on this.......Sounds stupid, but okay.
December 30th, 2018 at 9:56 PM ^
Agree with the point that people shouldn’t go overboard, but it’s also okay for people to be frustrated with the staff. The last two games have been the worst coaching performances in Harbaughs tenure. I don’t think we’re there personell wise to hang with the playoff teams, but getting run out by Florida is embarrassing.
December 30th, 2018 at 10:32 PM ^
That Florida team had less talent than us. They were basically the same guys that Michigan beat previously. They had a new first year coach and they kicked the shit out of us. Pure coaching failure by Harbaugh and his staff.
December 30th, 2018 at 11:46 PM ^
I was frustrated by coaching too, but that same Florida team was way better coached, was missing no one, had more talent than you're giving them credit for and was playing a team down its best defensive players sans an injured Chase. Then after kickoff, Gil got hurt, Paye got hurt, Long got hurt and Dwumfour played injured. You can't tell me this all didn't add to a team that was probably emotionally spent, too.
Yes, the offense wasn't good enough, Don Brown was worked at times and the clock management was horrid, but this was never going to be a game that saw Michigan's best. I did expect better, but people need to quit overstating things.
December 31st, 2018 at 1:35 AM ^
I did not think we’d win the game, but that’s a long way from getting embarrassed 41-15. Florida is not that good. And while the defense was very short handed the offense was not.
There are many ways to play defense to mitigate a talent disadvantage. Playing man up every time isn’t one of them. Don Brown has gotten owned by good offensive coaches throughout his tenure at Michigan. The exception being 2016, when we had the best defense since 1997. Michigan’s staff has coached as if they have better players than everyone else since the OSU game last year. They don’t have that type of talent and adjustment is required.
Let me make it clear the only staff change I’d like to see is Pep leaving and a new passing game coordinator coming in, but Don Brown isn’t the be all end all like it seemed in 2016. The best defense he’s produced was inherited.
December 31st, 2018 at 1:43 AM ^
It was a coaching failure but with some mitigations:
1) The were the same guys UM beat previously except they were a year older
2) They have a great offensive mind for HC
3) They did have less talent than us, but not by much, per recruiting rankings, the talent level is very close
4) They were playing a lot closer to home
It is a coaching failure. Harbaugh has GOT to realize that sometimes he's going to have to out score teams, not rely on his defense (especially when the defense had a lot of talent missing).
December 31st, 2018 at 4:02 AM ^
There are two things I’ll give Harbaugh. One the offensive line is not there yet. We still need two tackles very badly. Credit to Runyan for the effort he gives but it’s hard to pass when you can’t protect and your best receivers are outside guys.
Two I think (and am hoping) the emphasis on slot types in recruiting is to address the lack of quick twitch speed at receiver. I think we’re pretty slow at the position. DPJ is obviously fast but he’s not a slot receiver. Nico is a possession type and Tarik is coming off two major injuries. Only Ronnie Bell of the other receivers seems like he might have the speed and wiggle for that. I’m excited to see how they use the slot guys. There’s no way you put that much emphasis on it in recruiting and don’t plan to use it.
I’m upset with the staff because I still think they could coach this game better, but I’m excited in the direction we’re headed. I do believe my/our complaints will go away, if the recruiting emphasis turns out to be true.
December 31st, 2018 at 12:54 PM ^
I appreciate this thoughtful take.
December 30th, 2018 at 10:02 PM ^
Tell me the first Florida touchdown wasn’t scheme (there’s smart ours assnine). Tell me the clock mgmt on O at the end of the first half wasn’t shitty enough to make James Franklin look elite. Tell me this same shit didn’t happen in the ND game, 3 months ago. We all skewered Hoke for 29 & 29 against Penn State, Ok so I guess 30 for 77 should excite us! Harbaugh is yet another in a long line of rigid dogmatic unadaptable coaches that gets outsmarted in the big games because that’s where he runs into intelligent coaches and equally athletic teams. Just what does he bring to the table. And short of RichRod name any M coach that has authored as many truly ugly blow out losses? Sure, he’s better than RichRod and Hoke, but I doubt if Minnesota or Purdue would trade with us. He needs to adapt or get out.
December 30th, 2018 at 10:15 PM ^
Comparing Harbaugh to Hoke & Rich Rod? This is a hawt take!
December 30th, 2018 at 10:34 PM ^
95% of the Harbaulogists can’t post without comparing him to hoke and RR.
December 30th, 2018 at 10:38 PM ^
But would they secretly admit they’d rather have Fleck?
I think so
December 30th, 2018 at 10:36 PM ^
The offense has all of Hoke’s creativity and one must dip into the RRod archives to find blowouts as ugly. Sure he’s better, so what?
December 30th, 2018 at 10:03 PM ^
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
December 30th, 2018 at 10:07 PM ^
Mark Dantonio? Brian Kelly? Look if you don't want to compare yourself to the best, don't be surprised when you aren't.
Nick Saban was barely better at LSU? By barely you mean during his first four years at LSU he lead his team to two conference championships and a national championship.
At Alabama, Saban's worst season was his first, not his third season. In his second season in Tuscaloosa Saban guided his team to a 12-0 regular season record with wins over three top 10 teams and a division championship. In his third season Saban's Crimson Tide won the SEC championship and capped their undefeated season with a national championship win over Texas. Here's something you can hang your hat on. In Saban's fourth season at 'Bama they achieved a 10-3 record with a win over Michigan State and a loss to their biggest rival, Auburn. Kind of just like Harbaugh.
Shall we talk about Dabo Swinney? Set aside his interim 2008 year because he wasn't named interim HC until the 7th game of the season. So his HC record really should start with year one being 2009, agreed? In his first four seasons he managed to win his division, conference championship, and capping an 11-2 season with a win over #8 LSU. Oh yes, almost forgot. One of his wins includes a victory over OSU.
Jim Harbaugh is coming in a distant second to what should be his benchmark standards, and barely holding his own with mediocrity.
December 30th, 2018 at 10:07 PM ^
We fail to get playmakers the ball in space. Not one creative pass ever to Peppers.
Defense is a disaster against any good team.
Swing pass to Mason once ever maybe, as a dump off on a passing down?
No balls play calls in big games is old. We play not to lose - instead of trying to score touchdowns.
Why does JH have a guy following him around carrying a huge roll of cord for his headset - when he was using wireless headsets at SF & Stanford? He got weird the last couple years. Started once he said he was wearing Woody Hayes glasses & Bo flat billed hat.
Wears dark long sleeve shirts when it's 85 & sunny also. That annoys the shit out of me. Put a nice M Polo shirt on & look like the athlete you are/were. Same as he had on yesterday in a dome... it's a bad look.
December 30th, 2018 at 10:18 PM ^
Now you don't like his sleeve length? Wasn't Brady Hoke known for wearing short sleeves?
December 30th, 2018 at 10:09 PM ^
Nick Saban won a national championship in his first four years at LSU. He did the same at Bama. Dabo finished first in his division twice in first four years and actually beat FSU & South Carolina. Brian Kelly took Notre Dame to the national championship in his third year. Mark Dantonio was 3-1 against Michigan in his first four years and had a shared conference title with an 11-1 regular season record in year 4. But yeah, it’s coming. Sure seems like it.
December 30th, 2018 at 11:58 PM ^
Even though Shula was not that good of a coach, he was a great recruiter. Alabama was stacked with talent when Saban came walking in. I'm surprised he did not do better the first year. But his 12-0 season were all Shula recruits and that got the big recruiting years started which just fed back into a continuous success on the field and in recruiting loop. That is why that 2016 loss to OSU, when we had the game won could have started one of these success loops a lot sooner for Harbaugh. Too bad but he just needs more time now.
December 30th, 2018 at 10:10 PM ^
To me the problem is a lack of flexibility on both sides of the ball.
The defense only seems to be good against average offenses that can be overwhelmed with a little pressure. Against solid offenses, I've yet to see the Michigan defense dominate. Maybe Penn State this year if you considered them a solid offense.
As for the offense, again, it's a lack of flexibility. There seems to be absolutely no ability to go tempo. At all. In an age where every single top coach seems to know the ability to keep defenses off balance with up-tempo is needed, Michigan can't seem to do it.
The offense also doesn't seem to be able to scheme a short passing game that gives fast players the ability to run with the ball after the catch. When you watch Oklahoma and Clemson and Alabama, I see plays like this all the time (especially Oklahoma). Michigan seems, again, stuck in an older era of football. Hell, even the NFL is using this type of offense now. Just watch Kansas City or Chicago.
I think that's what is most frustrating. And none of this is extremely noticeable against teams that aren't as talented, but it becomes pretty obvious at the end of the year against the better competition.
December 31st, 2018 at 12:25 AM ^
They did it before half but slowed down again and missed a field goal. So tempo has been bad but they did it for a short while.
December 30th, 2018 at 10:10 PM ^
To me the problem is a lack of flexibility on both sides of the ball.
The defense only seems to be good against average offenses that can be overwhelmed with a little pressure. Against solid offenses, I've yet to see the Michigan defense dominate. Maybe Penn State this year if you considered them a solid offense.
As for the offense, again, it's a lack of flexibility. There seems to be absolutely no ability to go tempo. At all. In an age where every single top coach seems to know the ability to keep defenses off balance with up-tempo is needed, Michigan can't seem to do it.
The offense also doesn't seem to be able to scheme a short passing game that gives fast players the ability to run with the ball after the catch. When you watch Oklahoma and Clemson and Alabama, I see plays like this all the time (especially Oklahoma). Michigan seems, again, stuck in an older era of football. Hell, even the NFL is using this type of offense now. Just watch Kansas City or Chicago.
I think that's what is most frustrating. And none of this is extremely noticeable against teams that aren't as talented, but it becomes pretty obvious at the end of the year against the better competition.
December 30th, 2018 at 10:10 PM ^
Sorry ... repost
December 30th, 2018 at 10:16 PM ^
So you're saying the problem is repeating the same thing over & over?
December 30th, 2018 at 10:13 PM ^
Yup - same happened at ND. Toward end of 3rd quarter & down multiple scores. We were huddling & burning 40 sec a play running into a stacked box. I was at the time thinking "Wtf are you doing - play hurry up". Announcers saying the same. Nope ...we just kept burning clock. Same at Osu also.
I've lost confidence in him. Players appear to have also...
December 30th, 2018 at 10:16 PM ^
Better show something next year or get his ass out of here.
December 30th, 2018 at 10:26 PM ^
The reality is that he just needs to hire a dedicated OC and delegate. This will allow him to monitor all aspects of the game plan and build relationships with his players. I’m guessing this will also help with his work / life balance. I haven’t given up on him and I do think that we will see a change next year.