"Hours Long" UM/BIG Meeting Yesterday (Insider Updates)
Pretty fresh takes and I like to respect the 24 hour rule of pay sites by not posting too much detail. From Chris Balas and little tidbits from others. I think you can find most of the below if you dig:
- UM and BIG met "for hours" yesterday
- The BIG is not backing down.
- UM was going to fight a two game suspension...but the BIG wants blood...indefinite suspension
- UM does believe they would win in court and without giving too much detail, UM seems loaded for bear...this is not your grandpas UM
- Not just stopping with an injunction if it comes to that...they will be aggressive using all legal means necessary.
- There is full support for JMFH
- They "may" consider a 2 game suspension if Harbaugh was 100% going to be there for OSU and 2 games would appease the mob...but even then...they really were leaning towards fighting that.
Basically...UM is "going to war" at this point (forgive the war reference just used for effect).
November 6th, 2023 at 7:38 AM ^
Well this doesn’t sound like “deferring to the NCAA.”
November 6th, 2023 at 7:53 AM ^
File this away along with WSJ. Balas is also all over the place. Don't trust this either.
I tend to believe this statement from JUB:
Anyone who claims they know what the NCAA, the Big Ten, UM, or Jim Harbaugh will do is lying - especially with new leaders at all three institutions. This is uncharted waters, and just about anything is possible. And oh yeah: Nobody Knows Anything.
So many claims, speculations, contradictions/hedges, etc. and we haven't yet seen anything come to fruition.
November 6th, 2023 at 8:23 AM ^
EDIT: Deleted and combined above.
November 6th, 2023 at 8:48 AM ^
"Nobody Knows Anything."
I don't know what's going here, either, but that's Bacon's shtick and his way of saying "I know something."
November 6th, 2023 at 9:11 AM ^
You know nothing. I know nothing. Dave Brandon knows nothing.
November 6th, 2023 at 9:13 AM ^
The WSJ quote was originally from the article that was before the B1G coaches fed off one another in their circle jerk meeting.
November 6th, 2023 at 12:49 PM ^
I was willing to give the WSJ a 2nd chance but they look like they're a major 0-for-2 in this. I don't think they have any actual sources who know anything
November 6th, 2023 at 7:39 AM ^
Surprise surprise - all the insider rumblings and Brian’s post last night were correct, and the WSJ was wrong?! Color me shocked
November 6th, 2023 at 7:49 AM ^
What did Brian post? I'd search for it but I'm not tech savvy.
November 6th, 2023 at 8:15 AM ^
Well shit, the front page. That's the last place I would have looked. Thank you!
November 6th, 2023 at 9:11 AM ^
Is your computer plugged in?
November 6th, 2023 at 9:38 AM ^
"is your computer plugged in?"
I'm not sure, let me grab my flash light.
"why would you need your flashlight?"
Because I can't see behind the computer. The power is out.
"oh, well then, I need you to box that computer up and send it back to us."
Really? Is my computer broken that bad?
"I'm afraid its much more serious than that."
Oh my, really??
"Yeah, you're too stupid to own a computer."
November 6th, 2023 at 7:51 AM ^
Yeah have to say in unison all the insiders had this one locked in 100%
November 6th, 2023 at 7:41 AM ^
I wasn't going to include this as Chris is the only one I saw with it but free sites are also reporting it...
Fox sports is now involved and somewhat of a middle man. It is not clear what role they are playing, but they are involved.
And lastly...The one thing I was going to post was a quote that Balas was told directly:
"It seems unlikely to resolve now. They were hoping Tony would come to his senses. He's intent on rolling over Michigan, and Michigan is going to roll him right back."
November 6th, 2023 at 7:53 AM ^
Seems unlikely to happen, but Michigan should absolutely loudly start investigating what it takes to leave the B1G .
November 6th, 2023 at 8:12 AM ^
I would love to see someone drop a nugget like this out there to see what happens:
"Unnamed sources tell me Michigan is in the exploratory stage of leaving the Big Ten. This would send a massive shockwave through college football, especially the Big Ten, a largely mediocre conference entirely propped up by two schools, one of which is looking to leave. Would Fox, the broadcast partner paying gobs of money to the conference, in large part because of what Michigan brings to the table, force the conference to renegotiate its television deal? Could the ACC, a conference that once feared for its own survival, end up the ultimate winner in realignment?"
November 6th, 2023 at 8:28 AM ^
Michigan leaving to the SEC would likely collapse the conference and force a single NFL-style league. OSU would likely go too, they're most like an SEC team anyhow... We're heading to an NFL-style super league anyhow. If the B1G wants a part of that pie, they'd be best served by not [redacted]ing with Michigan.
November 6th, 2023 at 8:38 AM ^
If im a lesser team in the B1G I'm a little nervous that this thing could implode and result in me being left behind.
November 6th, 2023 at 8:43 AM ^
You have to think that at some point they'll realize they have been sucking at the teet of the Michigans of football for decades. Better not bite it.
November 6th, 2023 at 11:18 AM ^
This is a good point. If only 2 teams leave the Big Ten - Michigan and Ohio State - it collapses below Big 12 status.
It's best not to chase 50% of them away on a trivial issue.
November 6th, 2023 at 8:50 AM ^
This is OSU's long game. They don't want to be the bad guy, so they'll set up Michigan instead and "reluctantly" go along with them afterward. I'm kidding ... I think.
November 6th, 2023 at 10:34 AM ^
I wholly support Michigan to the SEC, but I think there would be a reluctance from an academics standpoint (as dumb as that is considering we are talking about football, and the SEC schools are good schools, albeit not at the level of Michigan).
HOWEVER, Michigan should 100% be in talks with Notre Dame and USC for all 3 to join the ACC. Bring NBC into the talks too. That would be the coup of all coups. It would be a step up academically and leave the Big Ten reeling. Tell ND the writing is on the wall and the ACC is primed to be the AFL to the SEC’s NFL. The BIG goes in the dustbin of history.
November 6th, 2023 at 7:41 AM ^
Fuck'em. Go nuclear.
November 6th, 2023 at 8:00 AM ^
This hasn't been said enough!
November 6th, 2023 at 9:14 AM ^
An "indefinite suspension"? And exactly what criteria is there, what has to happen, for such a suspension to be lifted??
And what precedent is there for suspending a head coach indefinitely? Good luck justifying that in court, especially when there's been no full investigation.
November 6th, 2023 at 11:19 AM ^
Nobody knows, it's never been done.
Which is why it won't be done.
November 6th, 2023 at 11:43 AM ^
"Indefinite suspension" sounds like "you're fired" to me. So the Big Ten conference thinks that they can fire Michigan's coach based upon in person scouting? Really? Good luck with that.
November 6th, 2023 at 7:43 AM ^
A nice spicy thread to get the Monday started right.
Thamelgeddon has begun!
November 6th, 2023 at 7:43 AM ^
Regarding WSJ Article on "deferring to NCAA"
That was written at 11am and before the hours long meeting yesterday. That is 100% not accurate.
Every source I've seen (including pay sites) agrees...UM and the BIG are going to go toe to toe.
November 6th, 2023 at 9:11 AM ^
Not questioning the timing, or putting faith in WSJ, but both reports can be true. The Big Ten could have decided they will defer to the NCAA but at the same time pressed hard on Michigan to agree to a suspension to placate certain members. To me, this may even be the most likely scenario. The Big Ten may not be willing to act unilaterally, but know that Big Ten members want them to do so. If Michigan goes along, Big Ten gets to take the easy path. The Big Ten should be willing to push/lie/bluff/etc. to reach that result. The Big Ten is only in a bind if Michigan refuses and fights.
November 6th, 2023 at 7:45 AM ^
Agreeing to any suspension is not a good idea when NCAA can use that to impose more sanctions later. Glad to hear that they are fighting it. B1G can fuck off. Leave this fucking conference.
Sam was saying that if we go to a court case, they will have discovery option. If that is the road all B1G teams want to go, Sam was indicating all dirty laundry is going to be aired out.
Keep up the good fight Ono and BoR.
November 6th, 2023 at 7:59 AM ^
The prospect of being personally deposed during discovery in litigation may cause some University Presidents, ADs and coaches to have second thoughts about provoking litigation. There is nothing like the threat of a senior executive being asked questions by attorneys for the opposing party for hours with the answers being transcribed and potential legal consequences for lying to focus the mind.
November 6th, 2023 at 8:01 AM ^
This is where these cases usually end - when The Boss is subpoenaed and the threat of perjury hangs over his or her head.
November 6th, 2023 at 8:22 AM ^
I think it’s unlikely M would get to depose OSU coaches and administrators in a case against the Big Ten. It’s possible but OSU would fight it and personally I don’t see sufficient relevance to allow it. OTOH the school whose personnel would definitely be subject to depositions is Michigan. So this seems like more of a reason for M to avoid litigation than for the various other schools to back down.
November 6th, 2023 at 8:26 AM ^
You don't see how the school (OSU) that started the investigation that Michigan is fighting would be involved in the court case?
Okay.
November 6th, 2023 at 8:53 AM ^
They might also have sue OSU on the other issues and then be able to depose them, but I’m a bit skeptical they’ll find evidence. As was stated in a WaPo article a while back regarding an interview with a former member of NCAA enforcement, those that want to cheat know how and they can’t catch them.
November 6th, 2023 at 9:29 AM ^
Well first Michigan would have to prove osu started the investigation
November 6th, 2023 at 9:42 AM ^
I think the OSU-hacking-whatever portion of all of this is a distraction at this point. That would not be involved in the current civil action that is being discussed. Certainly things could come out in depositions that could lead to other things but none of that would be relevant to Michigan’s immediate future on the field. There may come a time for that but I don’t think it is particularly relevant/helpful at this moment.
November 6th, 2023 at 9:40 AM ^
The question of the conference's legal authority to issue a suspension under these circumstances and given the current state of the factual record available to the conference seems to be a purely legal issue, not a factual one. The current question that a court would decide now is whether the conference, given what it know now, has the authority to do this NOW as opposed to after further investigation.
If the court says to wait until all the facts come out in an investigation, the source would be relevant.
And, realistically, if there are procedures for entities/agencies to investigate and deal with infractions, a court is usually going to tell them to go investigate and deal with the infractions themselves, before coming to and bothering the court. Why else would you have these procedures? A court isn't going to do their investigating for them. The court will probably kick it back to the agency and tell them to do their job. It might look at the final results but not until the agency is done. The doctrine is exhaustion of administrative remedies; if you have a procedure in place, you have to use it before a court will hear a challenge.
November 6th, 2023 at 10:26 AM ^
The issue is that the NCAA has still not come out and declared that there was a clear violation here. It is possible that the "grey area" defense would succeed, in which case the B1G would have penalized Michigan under an ethics clause for an action that was actually permissible. In that case, there is no way to go back and let Michigan replay the games with our full coaching staff. That cannot be remedied after the fact just with monetary damages.
The point is that the B1G is desperately trying to harm Michigan now, when our chances for a National Championship are the greatest. If they allow for due process, they lose the opportunity to undercut this year's team, which is the whole point of this witch hunt.
November 6th, 2023 at 11:21 AM ^
Certainly all the OSU stuff has relevance in assessing the overall situation from a sort of moral or philosophical perspective. But it has no legal relevance. The court case would turn on whether or not the Big Ten followed its own rules in suspending JH, and if not, whether those rules are binding. None of the OSU stuff has anything to do with that, so I expect a court would not allow M to conduct discovery on that (if M even tried to).
November 6th, 2023 at 8:29 AM ^
Well, I didn't say the whole thing. It is all just supposition right now. But he was alluding to who else is stealing signs and is B1G being fair and consistent. I am not a lawyer and I think you are if I remember one of your comments from other threads. So, I will leave it to your expertise.
November 6th, 2023 at 8:29 AM ^
Depends on where discovery takes the evidence. If the B1G were to have emails, texts, or other communications between individuals (and they can’t claim “attorney-client privilege” here - those comms have deliberately narrow distribution lists) showing that OSU provided information to the conference related to SignGate, then they become fair game for subpoena.
November 6th, 2023 at 8:31 AM ^
It would 100% be relevant and admissible. Any Coach or AD on those phone calls would be deposed.
November 6th, 2023 at 8:37 AM ^
As someone who has both taken and defended those depositions in the corporate setting, I can tell you that the former is a lot of fun, and the latter, not so much.
November 6th, 2023 at 9:49 AM ^
Do you know if the NCAA or the conference have procedures in place that provide for depositions with rights of cross-examination?
I find it hard to see that a court is going to take on the responsibility of overseeing discovery and then fact-finding on the propriety of any discipline, especially when A) there's an administrative procedure in place to so decide and B) only a cursory investigation has been completed, which means that administrative remedies haven't been exhausted.
November 6th, 2023 at 8:45 AM ^
May cause? It absolutely will eviscerate any chance that they'd continue down this path.