5 Big Ten athletes with myocarditis, potentially related to covid 19
Scary stuff for young athletes to be dealing with. Hopefully these are short term issues.
August 10th, 2020 at 8:47 PM ^
So sad, and scary. whenever I hear someone spout off about "Oh they're young!" or "99% survival rate!!" this is all I can think of. This isn't something you want any part of, whether you're 19 or 90.
August 10th, 2020 at 8:53 PM ^
And those are people's sons and daughters they're talking about.
August 10th, 2020 at 11:07 PM ^
August 10th, 2020 at 11:13 PM ^
FACT CHECK: uh well actually this one is true
August 11th, 2020 at 1:56 PM ^
Wait? Is the CoVID play football equivalent of All Lives Matter?
August 10th, 2020 at 9:06 PM ^
I don't disagree with your premise but where is it proven that playing football is going to make these kids more likely to get Covid?
I suspect that most/many are less likely to get infected given the regimented procedures around a college football team. Most of the sports "outbreaks" seem to center around people disregarding protocols...
That said - I doubt it will be a containable situation on an average college campus once students arrive. If it isn't safe for the general student population then I do not feel it is right to have athletes on campus or in a bubble = no football (frown emoji)
August 10th, 2020 at 9:12 PM ^
That’s a big part of the problem (other students), and they’re not pro athletes being paid so there are reasonable limits placed on what the school can absolutely ask them to do in most people’s opinions.
August 10th, 2020 at 9:32 PM ^
I don’t think many of us would want a school to force an athlete to play. But what about the athletes who want to play?
The media is all “It’s their choice!” when someone opts out but when they want to opt in ... crickets.
August 10th, 2020 at 10:05 PM ^
I think about this like I think about masks. Either it's a public health imperative to do a thing (wear a mask, cancel college athletics) or it's not. I am substantially more sympathetic to college athletes losing out on a small window to play their sport at the collegiate level than I am mask truthers, but the end outcome should be the same. In theory this is why we have government and goverment-like leaders - to make societal decisions beyond the scope of individual choice.
August 11th, 2020 at 7:53 AM ^
I see nothing but article about the desire of players to have a season atop all the sports sites today, even on the front page of the NY Times. I don't get that they are. . . rubbing their little legs together silently in the night.
August 11th, 2020 at 9:46 AM ^
it's not the kind of risk where the field is too icy and the school says the game is off for safety reasons and some players choose to play risking injury to themselves.
this is a communicable disease. it's not JUST the safety of the participating athletes that will be risked.
they can spread it. that's the difference.
August 10th, 2020 at 9:18 PM ^
Prolonged indoor contact with someone who has it is the biggest risk factor. So places where there is a lot sweating and heavy breathing that are inside are very high risk areas. So that's locker rooms, gyms, any rehab areas or training areas that are inside, indoor football practice facilities, and not to mention all the inside film studies.
There's a reason we've seen some teams around the country have 20-30 person outbreak of Covid. Athletics is incredibly high risk unless it's essentially all being done outside.
August 10th, 2020 at 9:33 PM ^
Sweating and heavy breathing? Also bedrooms.
August 10th, 2020 at 9:49 PM ^
I don't go long enough to sweat. I thought that only happened in porn. Or maybe I am just in really good shape.
August 10th, 2020 at 10:17 PM ^
I don't go long enough to sweat.
I think there's treatment for that.
August 11th, 2020 at 8:39 AM ^
Uhh, how many people are you... Nevermind...
August 10th, 2020 at 10:36 PM ^
I'm kinda confused here, what you're describing: "locker rooms, gyms, any rehab areas or training areas that are inside, indoor football practice facilities, and not to mention all the inside film studies." Sounds exactly like our football team has being doing since June 10th and their numbers have gone down to zero? For the past 8 weeks they have been in those exact high risk scenarios and no covid outbreak, no infections, no spread.
August 10th, 2020 at 10:42 PM ^
That may be true for now...but you still have potential risks with increased traffic around campus and traveling to other campuses around the league. They haven’t been hitting or gone full contact in practice since June 10th either.
August 11th, 2020 at 1:50 PM ^
So I think you've got the concept a bit wrong. It's not "if one person on the team gets it they WILL spread it to half of the team." It's "if one person gets it they CAN spread it to half of the team." Something like 80% of cases come from 20% of infected people, and the described situations are among the most likely to cause spread. But that they won't all of the time (for reasons that are still be researched) doesn't mean that they won't some of the time. And if you have a large enough group like a football team and enough community spread as is happening in most every area of the country, it's more of a matter of when someone gets infected outside the team and spreads it within the team.
This is 14 times more the case when you're talking about 14 football teams all active so they can play each other. A lot of them are going to get hit with this over a 4-month period -- it's just basic probability. Would Michigan be one of them? Who knows, but it's really just a game of Russian roulette, without knowing exactly how big the chamber is nor how many bullets are loaded.
The point of waiting until the spring is to hope that a combination of treatment, testing, and common sense reduces the amount of community spread so that you have a feasible chance of keeping it from entering your team situations that are near the top of the lists of risky behavior.
Note: I say the above as semi-professional singer. I get where the athletes are coming from. I get where the fans are coming from. My last gig was at the beginning of March, and everything is cancelled into next year. Every week or so I get a calendar reminder of another cancelled rehearsal or performance. It absolutely sucks -- my life has been turned somewhat upside-down (as it is not my primary source of income), and I know many who have no idea if their chosen profession is gone forever. #WeWantToSing/Act/Play has been the mantra of many of my friends for the past 5 months, but we know it can't be done safely right now.
August 10th, 2020 at 11:11 PM ^
August 11th, 2020 at 7:43 AM ^
this blog has proven, over and over: you can't cure stupid.
August 11th, 2020 at 7:49 AM ^
Stop it. Nobody is saying that wearing a mask solves the problem. Nobody. Masks are a mitigation measure to limit the spread of the disease and it's proven to be highly effective as long as you know you, wear one.
August 11th, 2020 at 8:23 AM ^
ferris- Actually a lot of people on this blog have said things very close to just that- "if everyone had worn masks we'd be having a season, eff them!"
August 11th, 2020 at 8:39 AM ^
And "a lot of people" are mostly correct. But we will never know.
I believe football could be played quite safely if compliance to known medical knowledge was applied. It appears as though too many remain more than willing to continue to cut corners here. Whether we "could" and whether we "should" are too completely different discussions.
August 11th, 2020 at 9:50 AM ^
Saying things "very close to that" is not the same thing and I don't necessarily agree with the sentiment that wearing masks automatically allows us to resume playing college sports.
I do agree with the sentiment that wearing masks mitigates the speed and efficiency with which a virus that is transmitted primarily through water vapor exhaled through the mouth and nose can be spread from person to person. The fact that simple action hasn't been embraced and mandated universally across this country has lead to us being the world leader in cases reported and deaths accrued.
August 11th, 2020 at 9:05 AM ^
And social distance...
August 10th, 2020 at 9:22 PM ^
I guess if you ignore the foundation of college sports and just looked at it through the lens of "person A would be better off in a strictly regimented environment, surrounded by similarly restricted people with access to better healthcare and nutrition than they otherwise would have" then you could easily come to the conclusion that yes, they would be better off in that environment.
But the conclusion to draw from that is to put them in that environment AND don't have them compete. We know that college sports is screwed up, inequitable, and generally perverse (as I get older I struggle more and more with the institution itself) so trying to rationalize them playing football by comparing their home lives to that of a strictly regimented life in Ann Arbor/Columbus/Happy Valley is immediately met with eye rolls and certain hand motions.
We know why people want them playing football, it's not for their own safety and well-being. It's for our enjoyment and the enrichment of institutions and people that benefit from the work of unpaid kids receiving less than adequate support (money, a true education - as in UNC's fake classes, long-term healthcare, etc).
August 10th, 2020 at 9:35 PM ^
Well the league has already had 2 outbreaks (that we know of) and that was at the very start of practice. Now factor in that the players have been mostly secluded on empty campuses. Now factor in that they will soon be living in dorms amid thousands of students and school personnel, and that outbreaks will likely spread like wildfire on campus. Then factor in non-contact practices becoming full contact practices. Then factor in that even the most covid-safe team will come into contact with at least 10 other teams, some of which will not have equal protocols or disclosure policies — and that even a single player-to-player transmission can swiftly explode into a mushroom cloud of transmission that could shut everything down in a heartbeat. So. That’s why.
August 10th, 2020 at 9:58 PM ^
"Now factor in that they will soon be living in dorms amid thousands of students and school personnel, and that outbreaks will likely spread like wildfire on campus."
This. By November I expect every student that is on campus at a major university is going to be exposed to Covid. Football has nothing to do with it and I don't see how it is going to increase their risk one bit. That's why canceling football doesn't make sense to me.
I do understand the argument for protecting staff, but I would think it would be easier to come up with a solution to keep them more isolated since they aren't the ones actually playing football.
August 10th, 2020 at 10:08 PM ^
You are spot-on here. The idea that football, of all things, is the straw that breaks the camel's back makes no sense.
If you want to protect football staff, you could have them wear PPE. That part really isn't hard to solve.
August 11th, 2020 at 10:41 AM ^
Yep - and these conditions are caused by...wait for it...
EVERY.
ILLNESS.
OF.
THIS.
TYPE.
EVER.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7199677/
Or any similar illness:
August 10th, 2020 at 9:14 PM ^
Good thing these students were part of their respective athletic departments where they can be evaluated and treated by some of the best medical staffs in the country. That probably will not happen when sports get cancelled.
It sounds like most athletes will be able to safely return to sports after a restriction of activity for three to six months. For a small percentage of those with this condition the inflammation can turn to scar tissue and put the patient at risk for an irregular heartbeat. Five athletes out of hundreds in the B1G is still a very small percentage...yes there are risks in life.
Between concussions, CTE, heat stroke and severe muscular skeletal injuries, it seems that playing football is still much more hazardous to a young person's health than Covid yet that is a risk everyone seems willing to take.
August 10th, 2020 at 9:54 PM ^
I'm glad you're happy to risk players' lives for your enjoyment. I guess your argument is that football is already dangerous so who cares if it's even more dangerous?
August 10th, 2020 at 10:02 PM ^
It's not for my enjoyment....the players want to play. The coaches want to coach. Who are you to tell them they can't? They understand there is risk....not only from Covid but there's a greater risk from actually playing football itself.
August 10th, 2020 at 10:13 PM ^
I’m sure the coaches want to coach - and receive their multi-million dollar salaries.
the players are competitive. I don’t doubt they want to play. But do 18-21 year old males have the best judgement? Do they weigh long term consequences?
But neither the coaches nor the players are the ones making the decision here. The presidents are. And they are weighing more factors than just “we want to play”
& considering how much money the schools are giving up, you know there have to be some very sobering reasons why they are willing to pass on that money.
August 10th, 2020 at 10:26 PM ^
So now we treat them like children and don't entrust them with the ability to make decisions for themselves? Should we take away their right to vote too since they apparently don't have the judgement to make those decisions either?
August 10th, 2020 at 10:54 PM ^
How many times have you seen a sergeant give orders to a colonel? Does that mean that the sergeant is a child and shouldn’t be allowed to vote? No it means there is a hierarchy to all organizations and in this case the presidents are above the college kids. Pretty simple.
August 10th, 2020 at 11:19 PM ^
That doesn't really apply. Yes obviously the President made the decision and the players have no choice but to abide by it. But the President is making that decision because he thinks it is the right thing to do, not because he doesn't trust the students to make decisions for themselves.
August 10th, 2020 at 11:31 PM ^
Yeah exactly the president thinks it’s the right thing to do. He has the decision making power.
You’re the one who started talking about children and not letting college players vote, which was a ridiculous thing to say and not at all relevant to the matter at hand. So I pointed that out. The analogy is better than that nonsense.
August 10th, 2020 at 11:35 PM ^
Uh no, that was the poster who I was replying to that said
" But do 18-21 year old males have the best judgement? Do they weigh long term consequences?"
August 10th, 2020 at 11:45 PM ^
The bottom line is 18-22 year olds rarely make decisions for entire organizations, be it a university or the military, that’s the point. You said “by that logic we shouldn’t let them vote”, which isn’t what anyone is talking about. There’s degrees of responsibility. You’re using the Ricky Bobby school of logic. If you aren’t the supreme leader of the world making all decisions, then you deserve to make no decisions.
18 year olds can vote and at the same time not decide the fate of the University of Michigan football program. Both things can be true.
August 10th, 2020 at 11:57 PM ^
There is still a difference between you don't make a decision because you aren't in charge and you don't make a decision because you are too young. Sure there might be a correlation but I find it belittling to suggest someone isn't capable of making decisions for themselves because they are too young despite being an adult.
August 10th, 2020 at 10:35 PM ^
There are other inherit risks to playing football. Did Maryland cancel all their sports after Jordan McNair died? Coaches are taking liability risks as well.
August 11th, 2020 at 3:34 AM ^
Using the hierarchy of command logic, the President of the United States of America (whom, presently in office, I have zero respect for) outranks the college presidents by a long shot, and he says "Play Ball!" So, the college presidents should obey their superior and greenlight football this fall, full steam ahead! Yes, I understand that it's not a perfect analogy b/c Trumpy doesn't run the colleges, but he's still far above them in command and authority.
"But neither the coaches nor the players are the ones making the decision here. The presidents are. And they are weighing more factors than just “we want to play”
Yes, they are, but you can be sure that one of those factors is the CYA factor because no one wants to be blamed if an athlete falls sick and/or -- in the worst case -- dies from covid. Yet, the players want to play, and they are indeed adults who are old enough to accept that responsibility and risk. Of course, there is every athlete's free choice to not play too, without penalty nor prejudice. Choice is a good thing.
August 11th, 2020 at 7:48 AM ^
That’s a horrible analogy...A better analogy is the fact that Trump says “open up the schools!” Yet every parent who is the head of their household will make the decision that’s best for their child. This is because they have better knowledge of their child’s health and the type of environment that their kid’s school is in. Their decision is more nuance based, than some general political talking point. These school presidents are making more informed decisions about their universities as opposed to “well just let the kids play”.
August 11th, 2020 at 8:32 AM ^
Leu-do the coaches not get paid if there is no season? (other than performance bonuses)?
August 10th, 2020 at 10:13 PM ^
If they play, are isolated with the team and get COVID-19, suffer a complication that ruins a potential NFL career, who gets sued? The U? The Conference? The NCAA?
August 10th, 2020 at 10:28 PM ^
Replace COVID-19 with career-ending knee, spinal or head injury. Who gets sued then?
August 11th, 2020 at 12:48 PM ^
I'm not sure why this has so many negs. He is discussing known inherent risks of playing football. There are risk mitigation strategies for these (helmets, newish targeting rules, clipping rules to protect knees, etc.) Covid is a risk as well. As our coach has well articulated, steps are being taken to mitigate the risks of Covid transmission. Players can choose not to play. One of my best friends quit HS football after a spinal injury scare (was fine, could've easily not have been). Players have to make decisions based off of the known risks and those in charge must take steps to limit the risks. The principles are not new, just the specific risk.