2020 Recruiting: Andre Seldon Comment Count

Brian June 22nd, 2020 at 12:09 PM

Previously: Last year's profiles. S Makari Paige, S RJ Moten, S Jordan Morant, VP William "Apache" Mohan.

 
Belleville, MI – 5'8", 154
 

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24/7 4*, 90 rating
#22 CB, #8 MI
Rivals 4*, #140 overall
#15 CB, #2 MI
ESPN 4*, #163 overall
#13 CB, #4 MI
Composite 4*, #161 overall
#10 CB, #4 MI
Other Suitors MSU, Kentucky, Maryland
YMRMFSPA Will Likely
Previously On MGoBlog Hello post from yrs truly. Future Blue Originals from Adam and Dave.
Notes Twitter. Early Enrollee.

Film

FBO:

Junior Year:

Andre Seldon in a nutshell:

That's a guy who doesn't even get the 5'9" courtesy listing against a TE nearly a foot taller than him. It looks like they gave a middle schooler a run for laughs. It looks like Alex Honnold versus El Capitan. And yet the ball hits the turf.

[After THE JUMP: in which your author remembers how impossible "will likely" is to google]

You can extrapolate the rest of it from there. Seldon is really really good at all the cornerback stuff except being tall. Touch The Banner:

"He’s small, quick, and fast. He has excellent hips to stay with receivers, and he shows a great understanding of how to play defensive back. He gets good position on receivers, tracks the ball well in the air, and shows some nice ball skills. He’s not afraid to hit people, and he does a nice job of using his hands to shed blockers." Also: "ready to compete against anyone who wants to challenge him. … extremely smooth in his transitions and shows very good ball skills."

Allen Trieu:

exceptional positional skills, instincts, competitive qualities and an all around feel and savvy for the game … big vertical and good make-up speed. … If height was a concern, then his battles with Julian Fleming and mountainous tight end Darnell Washington quelled those concerns. Seldon was arguably the best defensive back [at the UA game] … room for smaller cornerbacks if they have exceptional qualities outside of size and Seldon has those.

Trieu notes, again, that 24/7 is explicitly projecting the NFL draft and that "other services [ie, Rivals], who rank more based on college projection, already had him in the four-star range." He does mention that with the way football is going guys like Seldon who can stick with slots are becoming more valuable.

Earlier in the cycle Trieu scouted Seldon in person and said he was "one of the best corners at jumping routes that I have seen in the last few cycles," a take that is echoed on 24/7s overall evaluation:

Below average height … excellent make-up speed and closing speed. Combine that with his instincts and technique and he is able to jump a lot of routes. Highly competitive … Clean footwork with very little wasted motion. Change of direction is at a high-level. … excellent vertical jump

The other component of playing corner doesn't come up much at the camps Seldon hit, but when Adam saw him in person against a team that didn't throw a lot he got an opportunity to see him hit folks:

Seldon has excellent closing speed, and questions about whether he can translate that to proper run fits were answered in this year's film. Angles are no longer an issue, as Seldon repeatedly showed he could weave through traffic to take the most efficient anticipatory path to where a ball carrier would be.

There is really only one way a guy with Seldon's stature gets major D-1 offers, and Seldon has taken that path. (FWIW, I wouldn't read much into the "suitors" above. Seldon got an early offer from Michigan and committed about a week later.)

Despite Seldon's camp mania we don't have a lot of good testing numbers. Brandon Brown reported that he finished second in the 40 during the Five Star Challenge with 4.47 and 4.5 runs, FWIW. His functional change of direction must be off the charts.

The worry is naturally his size, something that's wiped out more than the odd Cass Tech cornerback over the past decade—and Seldon's high school coach used to coach DBs at Cass.

Seldon has done literally all he can to prove himself. There are zillions of camp reports on Seldon. He started hitting them up as a rising sophomore and never stopped. He appears to have missed the Opening; he did everything else, including getting selected to the UA game.

He killed every one of these appearances. The takes got repetitive, but in a good way:

  • "…one of the most active players in attendance … elite explosiveness … Bigger receivers tried to beat Seldon on jump balls, but he was able to contest almost every one."
  • "Took on the camp's top receivers, as he usually does, and once again showed how tough he is to separate from."
  • "…as usual, came to play. He takes on the best guys and has been to multiple off-season camps and we aren't sure we have seen him give up a completion yet."
  • "…will always be in the mix for the MVP award at any camp … plays much bigger than he is listed …footwork is outstanding. Wide receivers had a really difficult time separating."
  • "…requested to be put against the camp’s best receivers, and he answered the call, using his speed and aggressiveness to win the reps."
  • "…very quick, fast and does not waste a lot of movement. He’s always in the receiver's hip pocket."

"Fast and competitive"; "Lockdown in 1-on-1s"; etc. There were more that said the same thing.

The UA game, mentioned above, deserves special mention since the opposition there is a non-stop parade of the best WRs in the country. Even there Seldon excelled, prompting 247 to move him up in defiance of the NFL draft. The takes hardly budged:

  • "Scrappy, tough defensive back with quick reaction and instincts … played the ball all week and stood out day after day."
  • "playing big … multiple interceptions on day three … stayed on the hip of some of the best receivers in the country. … great quickness, the ability to turn and run and the physicality it takes to match up."
  • "… huge week … thoroughly impressed the coaches throughout his string of strong practices. … small in stature … makes up for it with his instincts, speed and dog mentality."

Multiple reports held that Seldon had more pass breakups, both on individual practice days and over the the course of the week, than anyone despite his stature. Afterwards Pacman Jones, who served as a DBs coach at the event, told MLive's Aaron McMann that Seldon was the "real deal":

“Very coachable … He reminds me a lot of me, you know? A smaller corner who’s willing to compete every play. … Smart … (He) was one of the smartest guys that we had here as far as football knowledge.”

So, yeah, he's short. Of all the micro-corners Michigan's recruited over the life of this series, Seldon's done the most to prove he can hack it at a higher level. Say what you want about the utility of no-pads camps, but surely they are most relevant for corners and wide receivers. As "one of the Midwest's most consistent camp performers," Seldon used them to vault up five rating points and a couple hundred ranking spots on 24/7.

Seldon enrolled early and was able to put in a little work before COVID shut everything down. Sam Webb reported that he'd run sub-4.5 40s and broad jumped almost 10 feet, and both his defensive coordinator and position coach got off positive takes. Don Brown:

"That's one of the reasons we signed him, was because of his ability to play nickel," Brown said. "We feel very strongly that he'll be able to make a run at that position, because the back position is not a position that requires crazy amounts of mental process. It's really about the physical challenges, the most important piece. And we think he's up to that.

Mike Zordich:

“I’m really impressed with that guy … academically, I’m getting reports through the roof. … But he’s competitive as hell now and he’s quick as hell.”

Now, Brown's mention of the nickel spot is interesting and somewhat limiting. Under Brown, Michigan has not used a nickelback except on passing downs. They've been a little allergic to the idea—over the last couple years this site has puzzled at the decision not to move Lavert Hill inside on passing downs, instead preferring a third safety. Maybe Seldon was recruited specifically because that was unsatisfactory.

If Seldon gets pigeonholed as a nickel it'll either mean the defense changes fairly significantly or his role is limited to passing downs. Which there are a lot of these days.

Etc.: Along with Giles Jackson, Seldon is going to be the first #0 in program history.

Why Will Likely? This site is pulling out the Big Ten's most recent MegaSmurf cornerback because Seldon has done everything he can to prove that he's a guy who can overcome his size. Likely was a star at Maryland despite being 5'7" because he was one of the best start-stop guys in the country. Unfortunately, a senior-year ACL tear prevented Likely from doing much at the combine except the bench press and saw him go undrafted after getting mid-round hype after his junior year.

There is always the possibility that a guy Seldon's size just gets overwhelmed at the college level, in which case Boubacar Cissoko and Terry Richardson are your comparables. Amongst guys who actually saw the field, Courtney Avery? Avery is listed at 5'11" on the official site but I swear I remember him as incredibly tiny but feisty.

Guru Reliability: Exacting. Camps, AA game, healthy, no positional projection.

Variance: Low. Extremely good cornerback with one major baked-in issue.

Ceiling: Moderate-plus. Seldon projects as a pretty good Big Ten corner who won't be of much NFL interest. Might get drafted late if the game keeps shifting to all slot everything.

General Excitement Level: High-minus. Michigan badly needs a CB with a high floor and Seldon is it. If he's an okay-to-good outside corner and a perfect nickel corner that's a very valuable player.

Projection: Will probably get thrown on the field more or less immediately as Michigan searches for slot answers that don't involve safeties. Seldon should emerge into the starting nickel by midseason. Down the road his ability to get a full-time starting gig will depend more on the alternatives than Seldon himself.

Seldon will probably become a starter on the outside despite the potential issues with that, because it's better to give up some contested fades than get dusted entirely. That will be less than ideal but better than bad.

Comments

Magnus

June 22nd, 2020 at 12:23 PM ^

Seldon represents for all the 5'4" to 5'8" guys with great speed/quickness who just couldn't quite get it done because of their lack of blessings in the height department.

I'm nervous about his being in the Teric Jones/Terry Richardson territory, but he's a better athlete than Jones and more physical than Richardson. So hopefully those traits break the cycle.

Also, those other guys weren't really expected to come in and play right away, but I think a lot of people expect Seldon to play in 2020. If he's not the starting nickel guy, he should still get a fair amount of playing time as a true freshman.

Bo Harbaugh

June 22nd, 2020 at 12:50 PM ^

Magnus, I appreciate your contributions to the board which are generally on point.  
 

I think in the case of Seldon height is much less of an issue than it would be in the past due to current CFB offenses.  He’s the perfect slot corner and will match up perfectly against hybrid RB catching the ball out of the backfield. 

Seldon is not a boundary corner but a specific weapon to deploy against the Hammler’s, Saquon Barkley and Zeke wheel routes, and Wes welker-esque slots that have been killing us on quick slants since OSU and PSU started exploring our obvious deficiencies there.

 

I see him as a specific weapon to tackle (no pun intended) a specific problem.

Yinka Double Dare

June 23rd, 2020 at 2:41 PM ^

Seldon seems to have better technique coming in than those guys too. The past smaller guy failures seemed like guys that were great athletes but were missing something besides the height, Seldon seems like he has absolutely everything already (speed, agility, change of direction, instincts, the want-to to hit guys, intelligence) except he's a smurf. The type that would be a 5-star top 10 slam-dunk NFL guy recruit if he was 5'11". He'll give up a few completions on perfectly thrown balls due to his height, but on the other hand, he seems like he will force them to be perfectly thrown balls because he's in the jock of the receiver almost every time. Love watching players like him.

TrueBlue2003

June 23rd, 2020 at 6:10 PM ^

I like that you said 5'4 to 5'8 because 5'8 looks generous for him.  Probably more like 5'6 in reality.  Love his game though.  Should be a great nickel/slot corner and would be huge if he can lock that down relatively quickly.

With him in the slot, Ambry on the fastest receiver and Gray on the tallest, I feel pretty decent about CB.  Add in Dax Hill's speed and how that should allow him to also take slots or help quicker and this should be a very solid secondary.

I think the defense will get back into the top 10 this year (didn't fall far out last year).

Obviously, that hasn't meant much the past two years for the one game that matters most, but hopefully they can figure something out.

dragonchild

June 22nd, 2020 at 12:51 PM ^

Defensive Jeremy Gallon?

There are very few college QBs who can reliably hit the #ButtZone so short isn't a huge issue in the college game.  If PSU's QB hits a flying ent in the twigs on a corner route I tip my cap.  When an OSU receiver blows by his defender in press man I seethe.

Say what you want about the utility of no-pads camps, but surely they are most relevant for corners and wide receivers.

I agree they're relevant for corners and receivers.  And don't call me Shirley.

RoseInBlue

June 22nd, 2020 at 2:11 PM ^

This is what people don't seem to understand.  I'm not going to be mad if a QB chucks the ball downfield and his guy goes up and gets it.  Dude made a play.  Good job, buddy.  But yes, seeing other teams receivers streak past our guys for a wide open long TD makes me want to throw things.  And I promised my mom I wouldn't scare my 3 year old cousin anymore by getting so worked up over football. So really, it's about the children.

njvictor

June 23rd, 2020 at 10:14 AM ^

Exactly, the beauty of a guy like Seldon is that he's a very good all around corner who's biggest issue is his size. So the only way you're really going to beat him is on a perfectly thrown jump ball that he literally can't get to. If his biggest weakness is getting beaten on perfectly thrown and high pointed catches then I think that's something that we can live with

Bo Harbaugh

June 23rd, 2020 at 6:00 PM ^

And ideally he's not in that situation very often as he'd be matched up with slots and RB.  If the opponent has a 6'4 receiver that can play outside or in the slot and runs a 4.3 and accelerate like Deion Sanders, then hats off to Randy Moss 2.0 - nobody is stopping that guy.

Ideally, we scheme correctly and Seldon is covering the Hammler's of the world and OSU drag routes that have killed us the past few years.

UMich2016

June 22nd, 2020 at 12:52 PM ^

Everyone seems to be high on him.  I remember Don Brown told him he would have been covering Hamler this past year if he were on the team.

He is one of the few freshman that we do need to play this year.  Him and DJ Turner should provide good depth to that CB room.  As Brown says, its easier for a nickel to play as a true freshman.

 

MGoStrength

June 22nd, 2020 at 1:09 PM ^

This kid looks like he has great instincts and a great feel for the game.  Recruiting rankings overvalue size and undervalue performance.  I think he'll be just fine ala Antoine Winfield Sr, Jeremy Gallon, Steve Smith, Darren Sproles, etc.  Me likey :)

wesq

June 22nd, 2020 at 1:19 PM ^

Brandon Harrison is another comp. BH was maybe stronger and more explosive and Seldon seems to be more fluid and better in coverage. But played mostly a nickel/safety hybrid if I remember correctly. 

m9tt

June 22nd, 2020 at 1:29 PM ^

U of Washington has put together some outstanding defenses with physically gifted but undersized defensive backs in recent history: players like Elijah Molden, Myles Bryant, Budda Baker, Taylor Rapp, Byron Murphy...

It appears Seldon can play, and if he proves he can stick with slot receivers, I'll gladly take a 5'8" CB who's in the receiver's back pocket on a drag route than a 6'0" CB who's trailing 2 yards behind. 

getsome

June 22nd, 2020 at 1:52 PM ^

i think rapp played at 200-210 lb but i get where youre going.  

if a guy has the agility, quickness and instincts to play, height isnt a huge issue.  weight is though.  its tough to play big time college D at 150-160 lbs.  you see plenty of shorter dudes impact games but theyre usually filled out.  if they dont see seldon on his way to eventual 175-180 lb, im afraid his impact will be limited

m9tt

June 22nd, 2020 at 5:29 PM ^

Yeah, Rapp and Baker played safety so it's not a perfect comparison, but Budda was 5'10" 195 lbs, which is under 10th percentile for the position.

Myles Bryant is probably the best-case scenario for Seldon. UW listed him at 5'9" 185, but he's likely a little smaller than that... He made two All-Pac 12 2nd teams and was on preseason watch lists for the Nagurski, Thorpe and the Bednarik. 

 

AC1997

June 22nd, 2020 at 1:36 PM ^

I'm excited about him. Ideally he's partnered with a tall/physical guy on the other side so the coaches can maximize their strengths and minimized mismatches.  I love that he actively seeks out the best players to cover and that he's physical.  I think one of the short-comings (ha!) with some of the Cass Tech guys in the past is that they were lacking a critical aspect of being a good corner besides just the height - speed, aggressiveness, technique, hands, etc.  I think Seldon looks to have everything but height.  There's a role for that.

Love the comment about giving up perfectly thrown Buttzone passes instead of giving up wide open crossing or deep routes because we couldn't stay with a guy.  

NotADuck

June 22nd, 2020 at 1:53 PM ^

For some added positivity, John Reid was drafted this year at 5'10" and was a very good corner his entire career at Penn State.  Also Tyrann Mathieu, NFL star nickelback, is 5'9".  If Seldon comes in with the same attitude as Tyrann Mathieu (which it sounds like he does) I think he's got a good shot.

MaudyMacht

June 23rd, 2020 at 10:38 AM ^

First time I saw Seldon I immediately thought of Quandre Diggs. 

 

Speaking to NFL potential more generally, if Seldon can reach his potential I think he might be a higher pick than some think. If I'm in a division with Tyreek Hill, Tyler Lockett, TY Hilton, Stefon Diggs, or Terry McLaurin I'm going to go out and get a guy like Seldon and I'm going to pay him a lot of money. 

Khaki

June 22nd, 2020 at 2:18 PM ^

Hoping that Don Brown figured out by watching Brandon Watson get chewed up by Olave and our safeties 7 yards behind KJ Hamler that you better have a guy or two like Seldon you can put on the other teams fastest guy.

carlos spicywiener

June 22nd, 2020 at 2:22 PM ^

Tyrann Mathieu- the patron saint of alpha dog mini-Cbs - was also used as safety and punt returner (one of the best return men ive ever seen in college)

any chance seldon gets moved around?

Jack Be Nimble

June 22nd, 2020 at 2:50 PM ^

Height is not unimportant, but I think people get too fixated on it. Plenty of shorter defensive backs have had great success in the NFL and even more have done so in college. As far as corners go, Tim Jennings and Antoine Winfield both come to mind. Jennings is 5'8 and a two time pro-bowler. He retired just a few years ago. Winfield is 5'9.

Not only do I think Seldon can be a very good college CB, I wouldn't write him off as an NFL player either.

OwenGoBlue

June 22nd, 2020 at 7:32 PM ^

Having both nickel options available would be ideal.

Really only remember seeing a fair bit of both packages in '16 (Lewis sliding inside pre-Clark injury; more Kinnel after the injury) and '18 (Hawkins/Watson as nickels).

bronxblue

June 22nd, 2020 at 9:45 PM ^

Looks like the type of corner who plays 4 years in college, fans remember him for some great 1-on-1 plays, and the NFL doesn't give him a second look until he's out of eligibility.  He definitely plays bigger than his size and, unlike some of the other micro corner UM has gotten, seems to accept his limitation but isn't afraid to push through it.

Snazzy_McDazzy

June 22nd, 2020 at 10:57 PM ^

Gaining weight while maintaining or even increasing his athleticism will be key. He's going to be deployed in a very limited fashion so long as his weight is this low. But I agree with Jack Be Nimble. There are notable exceptions to the rule when it comes to short cornerbacks.

Bodogblog

June 23rd, 2020 at 2:06 PM ^

"Seldon will probably become a starter on the outside despite the potential issues with that, because it's better to give up some contested fades than get dusted entirely." 

I don't understand this?  Does it assume the other options at CB are so poor he needs to play outside? 

Vincent Gray was a redshirt freshman last year.  He played pretty damn well by many accounts, including PFF: 

So he's a starter this year, alongside Ambry Thomas.  

In 247's defensive depth chart article, they said they almost put DJ Turner in as a starter at CB, based on the coaching staff's excitement for him.  https://247sports.com/college/michigan/LongFormArticle/Projecting-Michigan-football-2020-defensive-depth-chart-148084471/#148084471_1

So there would be 2-3 years of starters at CB that are pretty widely known.  Then you have 4* Jalen Perry from the 2019 class, and 4* Darion Green-Warren (the #13 CB nationally) in this year's class.  Then George Johnson who's moved over to CB, and Eamonn Dennis coming this year who's also going to be a corner.  

I'd like to see more top 10 corners being recruited, but the cupboard is hardly bare.  If Seldon is a slot killer - and I think he will be - I don't know why he wouldn't be expected to stay there his entire career and be outstanding. 

TrueBlue2003

June 23rd, 2020 at 6:24 PM ^

I think the author is projecting him to become a starter on the outside after this year, and likely not until 2022, in his junior year.

Slot/nickel starter by mid-way through this season with Thomas and Gray the outside guys. Then after this season, when Ambry is gone, it's a bit of crap shoot.

Yes, the cupboard is hardly bare, but after Gray and Thomas are gone, two of Turner, Dorian-Green and Perry would have to beat him out and none of them are sure bets to do so.

I also don't think him winning the job requires the other options to be poor as you suggest.  He could be a very good outside corner.  I don't think him starting there would necessarily mean the other options are poor.  He could beat out good players.