Sam Webb CB's Zach Harrison to OSU
December 18th, 2018 at 9:11 AM ^
Makes sense then.
December 18th, 2018 at 8:44 AM ^
Please make it stop.
December 18th, 2018 at 8:53 AM ^
Make what stop? The class is going to finish with at least 15 4-stars. It's a good class.
December 18th, 2018 at 9:04 AM ^
They're good recruits, Brent
December 18th, 2018 at 8:44 AM ^
Being down in columbus, I can tell you locally this was one instance where Urban leaving radically helped OSU (according to pretty much every osu media person here). There have been enough rumors on enough boards and even them stating it on local radio here that he loved the assistant coaches at osu but wasn't necessarily keen on urban it appears to be the case. They reported here that he absolutely loves Day.
Who knows but I think the consensus here it columbus is that OSU mashing UM helped but Urban leaving sealed the deal.
December 18th, 2018 at 9:32 AM ^
I figured a lot was going to hinge on whether Meyer stayed down there or not. I thought he was as good as their's until the "suspension" happened, then things seemed to lean inboui favor. Oh well, c'est la vie.
December 18th, 2018 at 6:47 PM ^
Urban leaving sealed the deal.
If a single 5-star DE is what UM misses out on in order to move Meyer on his way, I'd say that's a good deal for UM. Harrison seems like a great player, but Meyer is more valuable than any single player IMO.
December 18th, 2018 at 8:45 AM ^
I mean if I didnt know bettter I'd swear that 62-39 game last month in his home town might just have had a negative influence on his selection process.
December 18th, 2018 at 8:52 AM ^
Elections and rivalry blowouts have consequences.
December 18th, 2018 at 8:55 AM ^
I don’t know better. I think the loss was devastating to the whole program.
December 18th, 2018 at 9:33 AM ^
Something happened. I dont know what it was and dont pretend to guess but something happened. The team that showed up in Columbus looked nothing like the team we were watching from the 2nd quarter of the ND game until noon on November 24th.
You nailed it when you said the stakes were never higher for a Michigan game in the Harbaugh era or even in the past 20 years or so. Win and we're talking about our upcoming game against Alabama, have probably secured not only the two 5 star commits we've lost but gained a few more and I seriously wonder if Solomon leaves.
But we lose and our reality isn't pretty. To be honest I'm a bit worried about which version of Michigan football 2018 is going to show up at the Peach Bowl.
December 18th, 2018 at 9:48 AM ^
I missed most of the game... I thought I read somewhere that Solomon was benched because they knew since midseason hes going to Ga. Is this true, that he didn't play in the game ? If so, this could be very deflating to a team who knows hes their best chance.
December 18th, 2018 at 10:38 AM ^
I don’t know if “something happened” or not. The team looked great midseason. Delightful. I don’t know that I can put any stock in what happened with Rutgers or Indiana, which were always trap games (remember pics of Urban keeled over in pain or panic while his assistants tried to piece together a win in a shootout at Maryland? Same day as the Indiana game. Weird stuff happens).
Maybe something went wrong behind the scenes. Maybe nothing did and Michigan just got destroyed.
But that game speaks for itself. I don’t think we even comprehend how bad it is objectively because it was so painful to each of us subjectively. I say that partly because people just kinda reverted to last year’s complaints (“fire Pep” even though no Michigan fan in the world would have said that 39 points wouldn’t have been enough to win the game the week before) instead of coming to grips with the fact that our defense, loaded with blue-chip athletes and NFL prospects, coached by someone all thought to be a top 3 college D coordinator, who had absolutely stonewalled OSU in the previous two years, gave up 62 points (well, 55, but that’s condemning with faint praise) to our arch rival in a must-win game.
The fact is, a lot of debate on the board has been about Harbaugh’s offensive management because we want to see more points. But Michigan’s defense was EVERYTHING we could hope a unit of Michigan to be. We have the hot coordinator universally acknowledged to be great who specializes in the schemes our rival plays, empowered by Harbaugh to coach how he wants. We have great position coaches that get the best out of their players. We have a defense saturated with blue chips, all-Americans, and future NFL players. Every complaint you could have about Michigan from a personnel, recruiting, coaching, or attitude standpoint had been answered by this defense. They were everything we could hope for.
And they gave up 62 points.
We still haven’t processed this. Because the truth is, a natural conclusion to all I’ve described is this:
If Michigan can have everything exactly right the way it was for our defense, and we still get destroyed, what hope do we have of ever doing better?
Full BPONE, man. Full BPONE. But BPONE isn’t just a reaction anymore; it seems to be the most logical position based on the facts.
December 18th, 2018 at 11:54 AM ^
...But were they?
What was the best defensive performance of the season?
And by that, when did they shut down a healthy, quality opponent?
I would say Wisconsin is probably #1, but even that game hinged somewhat on Wisconsin's coaching staff's questionable decisions and going away from Jonathon Taylor.
Notre Dame they got blitzed for a half by a QB who was later benched.
Northwestern...maybe? Allowed three drives then nothing? Even then, Northwestern had just lost their starting RB for the season.
Nebraska had a good offense, but Martinez was hurt when he played Michigan.
MSU's QB was hurt, they were down a number of receivers and lost their last quality one during the game.
PSU's QB was hurt.
The defense gave up a number of questionable plays in the two games leading up to the Ohio State game.
I think Michigan got sucked into the mirage that was the #1 ranking that was largely based on playing inferior opposition all year. Explains why they weren't prepared at all to cope with the idea of Brandon Watson being unable to be on the same field as Ohio State's skill guys.
December 18th, 2018 at 1:06 PM ^
Yes, Shawn, they were. I made no assertions that they were the best defense in the country (though, statistically, they were for a significant stretch of it). Were there issues with some of those teams? Well, McSorley may have been dinged up, but he was just fine in the game in which he got hurt and he was just fine afterwards. His problem was Michigan's defensive line (Josh Uche hitting him in less than 2 seconds!) and our athleticism all over the field. By the way, when you expressed some modest reservations after MSU and Wisconsin, you said that if Michigan shut down Penn State, you'd be "all in" on the defense.
You're being selective here, which is unsurprising given the usual tenor of your arguments (as an example, you zero in on Watson, who is a lower-starred player, because that fits your narrative, while ignoring the failure of the high-star D-Line, also ignoring that Watson was playing over Ambry Thomas).
This defense is a unit that had everything we wanted. Blue Chips, All-Americans, advanced and aggressive schemes, great coaching. And it got housed. Your counter-argument is that Brandon Wimbush hit a couple of lucky passes.
My rejoinder is that it's irrelevant. When we set out what we want to see in a team, we want great recruiting, great technique coaching, great player development, great schematic coaching, and some intangible stuff like a hard-working attitude/confidence/etc.
Harbaugh spent four years building all of that into the defense. He found the DC to delegate the job to. He recruited the athletes. He assembled a great roster of position coaches, including proven performers like Mattison and Zordich. The players developed; they play with aggression and intensity and intelligence.
The defense this year is the result of Harbaugh doing everything we want him to do. Everything, on a larger scale, that we would want from an offense (great coaching, possibly delegated, blue-chip athletes, a modern scheme that takes advantages of the latest ideas, quality player development, you name it, it's there) if we were talking about it. It performed exceptionally well throughout the year.
And when we played Ohio State, it failed.
So then, what? If Michigan recruited as well as you demand (they did for the defense), what then? They've already done that and lost. If Harbaugh fired Pep as so many (not you, to my knowledge) demand and brought in a guy and delegated the whole offense to him, what then? He already did that with the defense, and lost.
It's BPONE, man. Embrace it.
December 18th, 2018 at 10:41 AM ^
I think I can tell you what happened:
1. Michigan's defensive line consisted of two okay guys in the middle and two stars playing through injury on the outside. Their one guy who might have been able to push through the middle didn't play. Thus Michigan was able to get no pressure on an Ohio State OL that was able to double the outside guys while single-blocking the middle. On top of this, OSU's line inexplicably played better than they had all year, handling any blitz Michigan threw their way.
2. Brandon Watson's lack of athleticism and the staff's lack of an answer for it once exposed contributed to all three of OSU's first half touchdowns. Watson got burned on the first two TDs and gave up a PI on 3rd and 17 on the third drive.
3. Zach Gentry had an awful game. His inability to battle for the ball cost Michigan a first half TD. His two second half drops cost Michigan field position, first downs and indirectly led to the blocked punt and interception that turned a 27-19 game into a 41-19 game.
4. For whatever reason, despite finally have the more mobile QB, Michigan wasted Shea Patterson's legs and probably ran the ball too much, despite having the weapons to test OSU's secondary.
Truthfully, the bigger opportunity was 2016. Michigan was far closer in talent to that OSU team, more experienced and our defense was a legit monster that year. The missed plays, bad calls and bad luck down the stretch are still haunting the program.
December 18th, 2018 at 10:52 AM ^
It definitely had an effect, but I also think people are looking for causation in places where it might be tenuous. Harrison going to UM was always an unlikely pull, and my guess is that probably doesn't change even with a win. Maybe it makes it easier, but the little I've gathered around his recruitment is that a LOT of his family and friends want him to stay local, and I doubt that's an easy force to work against. The loss probably gives him cover for going to OSU, not that he needed it.
As for Hill - he committed after Michigan lost to ND and then beat up SMU and WMU. I'm sure seeing OSU beat up Michigan wasn't good, but he committed to a program that was certainly still reeling. If a single game swings you so be it, but I'd like to know his reasons for leaving. It's not like Alabama was demonstrably better or worse at the time than they are now.
So my guess is Michigan keeps Hill and probably still doesn't get Harrison. Maybe they grab in another big-name recruit or two, but looking at the landscape there weren't a ton of guys on Michigan's radar that seemed reasonable. And they did flip Solomon from Miami, so it didn't turn off everyone.
I agree Michigan probably will be flat against Florida; I'd love to be wrong, but Mullen and Fl are going to be way more excited than UM is my guess. Michigan may still win, but I'm not super excited about that game right now.
December 18th, 2018 at 11:01 AM ^
There are always certain bowl games where one team comes in really motivates and the other comes in listless, resulting in surprising score lines and unexpected losses.
Our victory over Florida a couple of years ago was one of those.
I have a hard time seeing this as anything other than the same situation in reverse.
December 18th, 2018 at 8:45 AM ^
Harbaugh should have done a sleep over...
December 18th, 2018 at 8:48 AM ^
Need to add Cornelius Johnson, sign all the currently commited players, and move on. It really is a very good class.
Four months ago we wouldn’t have thought we had any chance with Dax Hill or Zach Harrison anyway. Disappointing to let a great opportunity slip through our fingers on November 24. However, this staff has still done a great job recruiting and it will be up to many of the guys in this ‘19 class to have the resolve to turn this thing around against OSU.
December 18th, 2018 at 8:48 AM ^
At some point, not even Charlie Brown believed Lucy was going to hold the football thru the kick.
December 18th, 2018 at 8:49 AM ^
December 18th, 2018 at 9:07 AM ^
People downvote what hurts them.
December 18th, 2018 at 8:49 AM ^
Wake me up for March Madness, none of this is much fun.
December 18th, 2018 at 8:50 AM ^
I just wonder if all of the OSU fans who said Harrison wasn't any good when it looked like ZH was going to end up at UM will now be rejoicing over landing this elite player.
Survey says: Highly likely.
December 18th, 2018 at 9:15 AM ^
Agreed. The OSU position here was that in the long run we'd end up being extremely disappointed if we landed Harrison because he is not as good as his ranking.
So I guess that means we dodged a bullet? /s
December 18th, 2018 at 10:09 AM ^
Not defending any of that stargazing nonsense, but for years we'd heard scouts talk about how Harrison could be the consensus number one recruit, and now he's being talked about as a raw prospect with a crazy high ceiling. Not a huge difference, but it sure sounds like one.
December 18th, 2018 at 9:46 AM ^
It's not a done deal with Harrison to OSU yet but not looking good now for UM. And to be fair, most of the posts from OSU idiots didn't say Harrison wasn't any good but needed a ton of development as his football skills lacked right now - which many agree with. Many UM fans said the same and a lot of it was based on his camp showings in the summer. He is a freak athlete though that could eventually turn into an elite CF star - maybe.
December 18th, 2018 at 9:26 AM ^
Read that in Ron's voice.
December 18th, 2018 at 8:51 AM ^
I don't think I can ever remember such a titanic shift in the perception of a program/team as we have experienced since the OSU game.It is crazy how much everything has shifted even though we finished 10-2 and are going to a NY6 bowl.
The worst part is I don't even think we are blowing it out of proportion by much; that game was a dick punch of the worst magnitude for this program/fanbase.
December 18th, 2018 at 9:01 AM ^
I disagree. Losing to OSU big is par for the course for Michigan football, and I think most fans predicted a loss (okay, maybe not a blowout) at the start of the year.
You must be pretty young, because I believe Michigan had greater "titanic shifts in the perception of its program" after:
The losses to Appalachian State and Oregon in 2007;
The blowout losses to Illinois, Penn State and Ohio State and the losses to TOLEDO, Purdue and Northwestern in 2008;
The blowout losses to Iowa, Michigan State, Penn State, Ohio State and Mississippi State in 2010;
The losses to Minnesota and Rutgers in 2014.
December 18th, 2018 at 9:24 AM ^
I remember those losses and with the exception of App State I don't think they compare to the OSU loss this year.
Oregon is 2007 was after App State - no way was that loss nearly as devastating as the App State or OSU loss this year.
The loss to Toledo in 2008 was god awful, but we already stunk that year and I think even the least rational optimists knew 2008 wasn't going to be a good year with a new coach, system, losing so much talent, etc.
2010 was after the two worst years of modern Michigan football - I don't think the fanbase was behind Rich Rod or expected much from that team (though the Notre Dame win may have changed some of that).
2014 - we had already given up on Hoke after 2013. The loss to Minnesota meant the rest of the season was just dead man walking time but we were 7-6 in 2013 with a terrible loss to MSU and looking like a pathetic team.
This year, we won 10 straight without even really having a close game. We were pissed that we only beat Rutgers by 35. We beat Wisconsin, MSU, and PSU by a combined 74 points and they weren't really that close. OSU looked bad and were barely beating Maryland and Nebraska. The entire fanbase was behind the team and thought it was the year. Recruits were buying in, the conference championship game was a formality, and we were taking the throne again in the Big Ten. After the game - we lose our best recruits, our players don't want to play in the bowl game, projected starters are transferring, and the whole fanbase has fallen hard into BPONE.
I think the main difference in the losses you discuss and the OSU one was where the fans were and where they came from to get there. App State in 2007 is the only comparison because we thought we were going to compete for a NC and that ended in the first game. The OSU game was for the throne of the Big Ten and a playoff spot - thats a lot farther to fall than any of the games you mention except the App State one.
December 18th, 2018 at 9:42 AM ^
I think you're really underestimating the effect of the 2007 Oregon game in tandem with the opener. App State was a shock but in retrospect they won the national title. Michigan was close but lost on a blocked field goal. Fans could chalk it up to a fluke though it was still a massive betting upset (though Stanford over USC and James Madison over Va. Tech were bigger upsets in 2007 alone).
There was no fluke the following week. Oregon destroyed Michigan - the Wolverines' worst loss since 1968. 32-7 at halftime. Lloyd was chilling with Russell Crowe in the post-game. At that point we all realized it was over.
Those two games did a number on Michigan so I don't see the point in arguing about them as separate occurrences. If you feel Michigan is currently on the precipice of a 12-year rebuild, I'll have to respectfully disagree with you. 62-39 was a pretty big surprise disappointment, but they can recover.
December 18th, 2018 at 9:55 AM ^
Yeah, that Oregon game shook me to my core because I thought it was apparent that Lloyd had lost the team, he was going to step down, and that season was going to be an absolute trainwreck.
December 18th, 2018 at 9:58 AM ^
They won the National Title... in D-II. Not exactly a national title the way you are trying to imply. They weren't a bad team but in any Power 5 conference (or 6 since the Big East was still a thing in 2007) they would've been fighting for bowl eligibility.
Oregon absolutely destroyed us - it was a terrible game. But I don't think the national perception of Michigan changed at all after that game (or the regional perception). Maybe you were still holding on hope after the App State loss but you were in the vast minority there. The App State loss made clear what the OSU game in 2006 should have - that staff had no idea the game had progress since 1997. They had no clue what to do when a spread offense was on the field. I don't think the Oregon game made any difference in that.
I also don't think anyone expected a 12 year rebuild after those losses - in modern Michigan history the longest rebuild was a few years of 8-4 in the 90's that ended with a National Championship. I think Harbaugh is here for the long haul and will figure it out and bring us the championships we want; but to think that a lot of the fanbase hasn't changed their opinion on that after the OSU game this year would be laughable.
The 2007 losses were shocking, but a lot of the fanbase figured Carr would retire and we would get back to being the Michigan we enjoyed in the late 90's/early 00's.
The OSU loss this year makes a lot of fans think this is the best we can ever be - 10-3/11-2 losing to OSU every year in more excruciating and embarrassing ways than before. It is the feeling of losing hope that Harbaugh will take us to the heights we desire to be at. It is the loss of all hope that we can compete with OSU. The loss of the hope that we can be nationally relevant. A loss that is far greater than the shock of 2 very bad losses in the last year of a legendary head coach who watched the game pass him by.
December 18th, 2018 at 11:00 AM ^
Okay, great. Everything is terrible. 2007 ended a 40 year run of winning records and a 33 year bowl streak. A 2018 loss to Ohio State (by fewer points than 3 of the prior 9 losses, though no doubt shocking) continues an 18-year run of frustration against a rival.
We're both right.
December 18th, 2018 at 2:23 PM ^
Late to this but I agree. App State could be a fluke against a good (It was division 1-AA, not division 2) team. Embarrassing, yes, but not a full-on catastrophe.
Oregon blew our doors off in a game we had to have. It was a comprehensive curb-stomp. Look at the rosters--which had more NFL talent? Pretty sure it was Michigan. It told us something about where the program was and where it was going.
Where it has been ever since, it turns out.
December 18th, 2018 at 9:04 AM ^
When your #1 defense in the country gets exposed and taken to the woodshed like they did, what do you expect? As the year went on and OSU looked beatable, it looked like this might be the year we would take down OSU. Instead, we get embarrassed and lose all the momentum we had going. Losing to your rival for the 14th time in the last 15 years in blowout fashion will do it.
December 18th, 2018 at 9:10 AM ^
There's a distinct possibility that most of the best starters sit, we look unprepared for Florida, get another blowout loss, and 10-3 finish.
That's going to make the OSU loss look not so bad in comparison.
December 18th, 2018 at 10:27 AM ^
Gee, a demoralizing OSU loss followed by an uninspired loss to a beatable bowl opponent . . . where have I seen this before?
December 18th, 2018 at 8:51 AM ^
Bummer.
This class does have a lot of outstanding players, and I suspect that this class is going to be known more for who they brought in than who they missed out on.
December 18th, 2018 at 8:52 AM ^
Not really a big surprise.
December 18th, 2018 at 8:53 AM ^
Whatever
December 18th, 2018 at 8:54 AM ^
OSU scores again
December 18th, 2018 at 8:55 AM ^
December 18th, 2018 at 8:55 AM ^
Higdon > Weber
Ojabo > Harrison
December 18th, 2018 at 9:12 AM ^
This could very well be true...and why I find the (lack of) movement by Michigan with regards to Harrison very interesting.
Furthermore, the (ridiculous) activity that is swirling around this kid, at some level is going to take its toll-on Harrison...no matter where he goes. This is the truly sad part of this saga...a weight he will carry going forward. That a 17 year old has to be the adult in the room while the adults are acting like juveniles is the definition of "unfair". (Have seen this far too often in my 25 years as a pediatric nurse.)