Lloyd Carr's Last Football Game and Lessons Learned.
2007 Capital One Bowl vs. Urban Meyer's Florida. I remember that ESPN had Florida as 95% favorite to win the game.
Lloyd took the huge gamble and brought an offensive game plan that looked nothing like what Michigan had run for the entire season. Multiple wide receiver sets. Spread the field. I believe, if my memory serves me, that was the first time I remember seeing an empty backfield multiple times in a game. Lloyd took a big gamble and it paid off.
I hope, in prep for our Bowl Game, that Michigan takes a good honest look at their play calling and formations and comes to the conclusion that it perhaps isn't good enough against teams of equal or better talent. That Pep and Harbaugh bring a dynamic look to our Bowl Game. Why not? Take a risk! Get creative and see what works in the Bowl Game. What do they have to lose? Last year's performance against South Carolina shows what happens when you bring nothing new to the table.
November 25th, 2018 at 10:07 PM ^
All I ask is that we play the guys that are hungry. If that means the youngsters so be it.
Not saying that anyone was NOT hungry this Saturday but easy to nhave a let down or look ahead to NFL draft after a last game clunker like that.
November 25th, 2018 at 10:13 PM ^
i have always felt that the bowl game should only be played using players that are returning the next year. unless the players who won't be returning really want to play in the bowl game. i think you would have a much better attitude for the game.
November 26th, 2018 at 1:25 AM ^
There might be less emotional baggage after getting blown out versus losing a close one. In 2016, the team had to let go of coulda/woulda/shoulda (been in the CFP). There's absolutely no coulda/woulda/shoulda this year.
Of course, if a player has checked out mentally for the NFL, it doesn't make any difference.
November 25th, 2018 at 10:07 PM ^
Year after year hoping the coaches actually move into the 21st century........
November 25th, 2018 at 11:41 PM ^
I have been hoping for that since Lloyd Carr was elevated to replace Gary Moeller.
November 25th, 2018 at 10:08 PM ^
The o Playcalling and design are pretty bad. How much YAC do we have on the year? DPJ is good on punt returns but he never gets a chance to run after the catch.
With the redone woes why not try a fade to Collins atlas 1 of the 3 downs?
November 25th, 2018 at 10:12 PM ^
Yep, that game showed that taking chances pays off. That you can beat superior athletes in a shootout. Would be nice if the program had learned something from that game, but I guess not.
November 25th, 2018 at 10:20 PM ^
Henne had 39 pass attempts that game.
I would be cool with letting Shea throw around 30 per game.
There is too much WR depth on the roster to not utilize it more. A formation of DPJ, Black, and Collins would be great. One athletic TE who can both block and catch, one RB.
November 26th, 2018 at 9:39 AM ^
Who would that TE be? Gentry doesn't really block and doesn't seem to catch reliably either.
November 25th, 2018 at 10:21 PM ^
Many (most) coaching staffs become riverboat gamblers in bowl games--plenty of time for players to practice and get healthy, not as much to lose, gives them more to put on film for opponents in the following year. It's good to see the possibilities, but by the following September, most of them revert to a far more conservative style of playcalling.
November 25th, 2018 at 10:23 PM ^
It's worth noting that against Urban Meyer and Mark Dantonio, the two coaches who have given Jim Harbaugh the most trouble, Lloyd was 2-0. Just sayin'.
November 25th, 2018 at 10:33 PM ^
Mark has just taken over when Lloyd was leaving and Lloyd, maybe inadvertently, helped Mark build his program. Lloyd also lost 6 of his last 7 against Ohio State. And those teams were nowhere near as good as some of Urban Meyers OSU teams. Like others have pointed out there’s a reason only a few coaches have multiple championships. Urban is absolutely elite. Lloyd beat Urban on an emotional high with a stacked roster full of college greats, who had finally gotten healthy. With a game plan literally no one saw coming. If Lloyd coached against Urban today, Urban would destroy him heavily. Much worse than what you saw on Saturday. Lloyd couldn’t even beat Tressel, who was very similar to Harbaugh in his coaching philosophy.
November 25th, 2018 at 10:24 PM ^
Never gonna happen. Too stubborn
November 25th, 2018 at 10:24 PM ^
One more thing, i truly hope this loss doesn't affect recruiting. Our class this year will be so good if we can hold onto them. Hopefully, Harrison doesn't get swayed away and we can add some more legit high rated speedsters to this team.
November 26th, 2018 at 12:12 AM ^
It should not have a negative impact on the class, at least not any more than Purdue blowing out OSU by 29 would have a negative impact on OSU's class, or Penn State getting blown out by Michigan would negatively impact Penn State's class.
But regarding Harrison in particular, who knows?
November 25th, 2018 at 10:32 PM ^
The issue was the poor play by the DL. The offense scored enough to win. We simply didn't pressure Haskins and he had all day to throw.
November 25th, 2018 at 10:55 PM ^
We got beat in the trenches on both sides. The offense picked up 33 points on their own (I'm not counting the fumbled kickoff in that total), but the last TD was in garbage time, and frankly, 33 points is not that impressive against OSU this year. Oregon State and Nebraska each got 31. Maryland got 45 in regulation and was only 7-14 passing.
We had too many runs get stopped for under 3 yards, our RBs are slower than Maryland's and couldn't make OSU pay enough when holes did open, forcing Shea to pass on 3rd and medium or long too often, and the OL couldn't protect long enough for the receivers to come open. Meanwhile, Haskins had forever to wait for his outside receivers to clear out the corners, giving the crossing routes acres of space for YAC.
Even in the age of spread offenses and RPOs, football is still won and lost in the trenches. Our OT couldn't stop the pass rush, the interior OL couldn't block Jones or Harrison consistently, and the DT couldn't win 1-on-1 battles, allowing Gary and Winovich to get doubled.
November 25th, 2018 at 11:38 PM ^
You're right about the Maryland running backs having more speed, especially McFarland.
Higdon got some real good yardage on one running play. I felt McFarland would've scored on that play if he had ran through the same opening in the OSU defense.
November 26th, 2018 at 9:42 AM ^
Michigan's O and D had season-worst stats for an OSU opponent. OSU defense could have been shredded through the air and Harbaugh chose not to.
November 25th, 2018 at 10:44 PM ^
November 25th, 2018 at 10:49 PM ^
OP I had the exact same thought this morning when thinking about Lloyd's last game. If Pep had watched that film, he could have seen what innovation in a spread passing offense looked like.
Coincidentally.....Mike DeBord, who OC'd that game for Michigan pretty much owned Don Brown 2 weeks ago working for IU.
Perhaps Pep should be fired and DeBoard be brought back in. His O vs. Michigan was quite innovative. Same O he brought out vs. Meyer in 07.
Seriously...if Mike freakin DeBord owned Brown...many OCs can.
Michigan should gut the entire staff of assistants. They are all massively overpaid and worthless vs. top teams.
November 26th, 2018 at 9:44 AM ^
Michigan should gut the entire staff of assistants. They are all massively overpaid and worthless vs. top teams.
Don't go crazy. Zordich is good. Partridge almost went to Alabama. Brown was almost poached. We have some really great pieces on that staff.
Pep and Jay need to go though.
November 25th, 2018 at 11:05 PM ^
Here is an idea. Let McElwain design the game plan for the bowl game.
Give him the autonomy to do it mostly himself, with minimal input from JH and Pep.
JH should ask him to use the current play book, but try to apply it in a way that addresses some of the janky problems--not great in the red zone, too many unsuccessful 1st and 2nd down plays creating difficult 3rd and longs, failure to properly use Evans on the edge (man that one play for a TD against OSU...why didn't Evans get used that way a lot more all year?....), under-utilization of talented receiver corps, too few short possession pass plays, etc., etc.
Letting a fresh set of eyes take the lead could be a great experiment.
November 26th, 2018 at 8:18 AM ^
FWIW, Alabama fans were saying some of the same things about McElwain I am hearing here. Of course, they were winning NC’s with defense at the time.
November 26th, 2018 at 10:08 AM ^
I am not sure of what to think of McElwain. I am not advocating that he would be the permanent answer to replace Pep. Could be a good idea. Could be a bad idea. Don't know.
Just think that a fresh perspective is a good idea in any organization, and a good HC should allow an experienced assistant/former HC like McElwain go beyond merely making suggestions and throwing out ideas in film room. Let him put together the game plan and then be the guy that calls the plays in the bowl game.
Can't do this during the regular season. Bowl game is the perfect time to do it.
November 25th, 2018 at 11:25 PM ^
Remember that game all the time, Lloyd smoked the Gators. That's how you beat Urban, you get up two or three scores on him early. If you don't, you usually won't win. How about Nico, DPJ, Tarik, Ambry, and Martin/Perry in a 5 wide? Get your track shoes on.
November 25th, 2018 at 11:58 PM ^
Fuck it. At this point, just do it for the fun of it. Just to see if you can.
There is nothing left to prove. Just go out and have fun, that's what bowl games are for now that the CFP is preeminent over them.
Give Shea some work in that department, since he's likely coming back. He's not quite ready for the Pros at this point.
November 25th, 2018 at 11:47 PM ^
The is harbaugh we are talking about. The game plan will consist of runs up the middle against a stacked front. He is incapable of adapting.
November 26th, 2018 at 12:01 AM ^
He needs a real OC, but he's never going to let that job go.
November 26th, 2018 at 12:14 AM ^
Brian Kelly did.
Meyer did.
Why not Harbaugh?
November 25th, 2018 at 11:58 PM ^
Doesn't look like anyone else wants to be the klee shea guy so I will.
You can hope in one hand and shit in the other and see which gets filled first. I def an opinion on which it will be.
November 26th, 2018 at 12:36 AM ^
Outside of CFP games, the bowl games are exhibition games, so there is no reason to not get creative and experiment.
On offense more zone read and a decent amount of 5 WR sets.
On defense some zone blitzing.
I would also like to see potential 2019 starters get a decent amount of playing time and each QB to get equal time. Patterson's the starter (if he returns...which he should), but it's good to give each back up some time against a quality opponent just in case Patterson decides to leave or gets injured next season.
November 26th, 2018 at 6:21 AM ^
If it doesn't matter then why put anything on film?
November 26th, 2018 at 8:57 AM ^
Dude on dude violence.
November 26th, 2018 at 9:33 AM ^
If the goal is to try and experiment and grow, then I disagree on running the zone read more. It seems like that has been pretty effective this year and doesn't need repping in a game situation, so why expose your qb to the hits?
Wrt to players for next year, who would you play?
If you believe Patterson is coming back, then he should play qb (especially if you're going to experiment).
I suppose you could give Mayfield some run at tackle (I think he can play without burning his rs).
Next year's DEs have gotten a fair amount of run this year. Maybe Hutchinson could play more.
Amber much more in corner rotation.
Hawkins has played a fair amount, maybe Woods more at safety. JKP if he is available.
Maybe Anthony at mlb (migh be required if Bush is hurt - but seems like they've tended to use Ross in the middle)
Christian Turner at RB?
November 26th, 2018 at 1:06 AM ^
God damn. I just rewatched the game, and our throw game was dominant. They had no answer when M tossed the run game out and went throw throw throw. Three drives, three TD's, not even including the Milton hail Mary drive.
After the miracle to go into halftime almost tied, Michigan could have and should have gone full USC 2006 on them and they would not have been stopped. DPJ and Collins were on fire, except for the throttle we had on our own throw game. Before things got out of hand, the defense had two or three stops, which would have been enough to keep things in the competitive range.
This game could have easily been a big 12 style shootout if the overwhelmed defense was paired with this passing game from the opening kick. We demured.
November 26th, 2018 at 2:07 AM ^
Exactly, and that shows Harbaughs ineptitude.
Harbaugh is like Civil War General George McCellan. Great organizer, great at whipping his troops into shape, his troops love him and he loves them. Knows how to fight a standard set piece battle.
However, when the battlefield changes or when the other army doesn't react like it's supposed to he is lost and will most likely freeze when the pressure is on. He will turtle and be unable to improvise.
Comparatively Urban is like Grant. Rough around the edges, not the most charming fellow. Sometimes he loses battles he shouldn't even though he possesses superior men and firepower. However he will never stop putting pressure on his enemy, he will identify your weakest point and attack with overwhelming force. Constantly keeping you off balance, forcing you to fight a war of attrition you cant win.
Alot of these coaches who continuously run their heads into brick walls remind me of failed generals like McClellan. Knows what the field manual says to do, run the ball, control the clock. Innovation and adaption is not his forte
November 26th, 2018 at 10:41 AM ^
That is a good analogy.
But...Lincoln fired McClellan, so....
I think I prefer to run the analogy such that Harbaugh is Lincoln and Pep is McClellan.
IOW, I keep telling myself that Harbaugh, like Lincoln, has it in him to learn from mistakes, adapt every year, and keep changing field generals until he gets the right one.
Seems like he did that last off season (Warinner/Drevno).
November 26th, 2018 at 3:29 AM ^
39-62 and people keep complaining about the 39. So much cognitive dissonance. I guess that’s what happens when the #1 defense drops a deuce in the punch bowl.
November 26th, 2018 at 5:40 AM ^
One has the right to dream does he not. Not going to happen though. Prep time leading up to last years bowl produced nothing, the absolute massacre Saturday, opening the mythical hidden playbook, Michigan is what they are. Harbaugh isn't changing anything.
November 26th, 2018 at 5:48 AM ^
Get out of here, troll. /s
November 26th, 2018 at 5:44 AM ^
I don't think this solves the problem with the defense. You know, where we make it as easy as possible for OSU to score.
November 26th, 2018 at 6:19 AM ^
Why does anyone care about the results of meaningless bowl games?
November 26th, 2018 at 7:19 AM ^
November 26th, 2018 at 8:48 AM ^
Not when it literally doesn't mean anything. Without looking it up on Google what was the Michigan record in 1982? If you don't know then it doesn't matter. Nobody cares if you like 11-2 more than 10-3. At this point it literally doesn't matter. The winner of whatever second rate bowl game we go to doesn't get anything more or less than the loser. It definitively does not matter at all.
November 26th, 2018 at 6:38 AM ^
Thoughts drifted back to this as well. However, two caveats:
1. There's a lot more time to prepare for a bowl game.
2. Michigan had already done a lot of varied formations this year. So the gameplan needed to shift in more subtle ways, without such a significant element of surprise.
I don't disagree with the overall sentiment. Needed to make those subtleties more profound. Or just make them in the first place as they were not very evident.
November 26th, 2018 at 7:18 AM ^
November 26th, 2018 at 7:46 AM ^
I hope this team prepares for the bowl this year. Last year was abysmal. I know bowls don't mean as much anymore but this team will likely play a washington/georgia/lsu type of game. It could be a really big game outside of the playoff with a shot to beat a premier team, finish 11-2 and likely in the top 6.
I get it. It's not the same. This sucks. But UM will be playing in a premier game with the chance to finish in the top 5-7 for the first time in how many years? I think in '11 they finished like 11th or so?
Is this legit the first time in 20 years Michigan could finish the year after the bowl in the top 7ish?
Last year was a freaking shit show. Obviously they practiced but I'm not sure if I've seen an effort that pathetic in a game.
November 26th, 2018 at 8:31 AM ^
November 26th, 2018 at 8:03 AM ^
The coaches never learn any lessons that is the issue. It has been going on since Bo and has happened with every staff since then. Michigan usually has talented players but refuses to try and take advantage of them. Better hope Meyer does leave OSU because that is the only hope Michigan has of winning the conference. Even if by some miracle Michigan were to make it in the playoffs they would get completely humiliated. Coaches would have the same tired game plan and then would have no answers when it doesn’t work.