SIAP - Harbaugh says B1G admits error on Higdon phantom hold call
https://articles.mlive.com/wolverines/index.ssf/2018/10/jim_harbaugh_big_ten_admitted_1.amp
That and $5 will get you a latte.
October 3rd, 2018 at 8:57 PM ^
According to PFF our Oline is ranked 6th.
October 3rd, 2018 at 2:01 PM ^
Can you present one logical argument for why there would be an institutional bias against Michigan football? Conspiracies don't just happen to make you mad, there would have to be someone getting something out of it.
The big ten makes the most money and is perceived the best when Michigan and OSU are playing top 5 games at the end of the year. The big ten in fact has every incentive in the world to have a bias against other teams playing Michigan.
October 3rd, 2018 at 2:05 PM ^
michigan has been somewhere between terrible to pretty good for the last 10ish years and the big ten has done just fine.
still hard to come up with a logical argument for bias (other than ‘refs hate harbaugh’), but your main point is just wrong
October 3rd, 2018 at 2:07 PM ^
While I don't disagree, help me understand another logical explanation for the data. You're not stating anything that refutes the data, but rather saying (paraphrasing) "it can't be true because it doesn't make sense".
October 3rd, 2018 at 2:32 PM ^
Holding and sack calls are a tiny sample size even over multiple years. Holding is pretty rarely called generally and over 130 teams with a tiny sample size stat you wouldn’t be surprised by a random outlier, it just sucks it’s Michigan.
on reddit this graph was updated with all power 5 teams and bama was also getting fucked and an extreme outlier. It just happens with tiny sample sizes sometimes
October 3rd, 2018 at 3:18 PM ^
It's not just about the sample size in this case. One missed hold can, and has, resulted in drives being kept alive, in points on the board for the other team. JT Barrett skipping into the end zone last year is but one example.
October 3rd, 2018 at 2:08 PM ^
I can’t speak to the institutional aspect as far as coming from the B1G itself, but the officials could have motive to call against Michigan.
When Harbaugh first arrived he was very animated on the sidelines and was very vocal in his disproval of certain calls. Obviously officials don’t appreciate being verbally berated and their calls could reflect that.
Whether there is any proof or not, the data is pretty damning and it really isn’t very close.
October 3rd, 2018 at 2:11 PM ^
As the author of the graph, I don’t think it necessarily means there is institutional bias. We are only talking about a small handful of refereeing crews. There can be subconscious bias going on with a couple crews; or we could just be staring down the barrel on being on the wrong end of a statistical distribution.
Also could be something around D Line technique, or the way opponents scheme against us.
I heard Don Brown was asked about the graph in his press conference today, it will be interesting to hear his reaction once the transcript is up.
October 3rd, 2018 at 2:15 PM ^
It will probably not be very interesting, as he may or may not have actually seen the graph and either way is likely to emit a couple sentences of coachspeak before the presser moves on.
October 3rd, 2018 at 4:48 PM ^
“You know the difficult thing there? You know what’s shocking to me? We’ve played two Big Ten games. We have 10 sacks and 24 tackles for loss, but we don’t get held,” he said. “Take a look and compare that with the other teams in our league. That one’s a little tough. Obviously we go back and forth and study the films very hard on Sunday, so it is what it is.
“It’s not like for three years that we’ve been here we don’t have sacks and tackles for loss. In fact, that’s s measuring stick for us, as you know. When you play two Big Ten games and have 10 sacks and 24 tackles for loss, that’s a lot. You’re upfield doing things, and you know … I’m not sure of the numbers.”
October 3rd, 2018 at 2:21 PM ^
It's no secret that Dave Brandon pissed off everyone in the league that wasn't hired by Dave Brandon - especially the league office. This is why we have MSU and OSU on the road together, after playing two consecutive games in E. Lansing. Delaney, Blandino, and Corollo have all been around the league office for a long time. They all had to deal with Brandon. Add some specific pro-OSU bias into the officiating in CBus, 2016, and things snowball.
Yes, I'm putting a lot of this on Dave Brandon. And yes, I'm making the argument for institutional bias - even if it might not be a specific plan implemented directly. It's probably more like individual thoughts of 'Gawd, I hate that place and everything about them, fuck them...', with everyone getting in on the joke and fervor fomenting from there.
/tinfoil hat, but Fuck the B1G 10/14...
October 3rd, 2018 at 2:39 PM ^
None of those are compelling arguments. Dave Brandon is no longer the AD. We don’t steal Iowa recruits, 2/14 teams isn’t enough to creat a bias, the rest is just weird homer things about your love for harbaugh.
the scheduling is a rotation, not bias, the back to back away games were Dave Brandon’s fault, 1 wrong call they admitted was wrong means literally nothing and neither does another poorly officiated game
October 3rd, 2018 at 4:47 PM ^
But they do it in a rotation. Our next 6 team crossover is Nebraska, which was identified pre-Frost and Ohio State's next 6 year opponent is Wiscosnin and they had Nebraska for the last 6 years. If we keep the same divisions and same conference we will probably get Minnesota or Iowa next and will keep rotating through the other division.
October 3rd, 2018 at 3:28 PM ^
I would add to your list that Bo had serious issues with Delaney. Former officials admitted that Delaney targeted Bo for special attention and discipline during key games. Bo let him have it publicly for that bias.
Delaney is a key source of the bias and would be the only cause needed to perpetuate it over the many years he has served in the top spot. He has also been very protective of the Buckeyes over the years even at the expense of his own credibility.
Too much there to chalk up to coincidence.
October 3rd, 2018 at 2:41 PM ^
AK47
I agree to a certain extent that "institutional bias" against Michigan is probably a long shot for a few different reasons, but are you also claiming that you have not noticed any noticeable bias against Michigan in specific circumstances? I am just curious as to what you see with your own eyes.
I think it is fairly clear that the two most important games that Harbaugh has coached at Michigan (v. MSU 2015 and at OSU 2016) were losses that would have been wins but not for several objectively incorrect calls by the officials. I'm talking calls that are factually wrong, that a disinterested observer would be confounded by.
I also think that Michigan players have been on the receiving end of at least four pretty obvious targeting no calls, the most egregious of which were Rudock at Minnesota right in front of an official and Speight at Purdue that wound up in him being seriously injured.
I also looked at the holding chart the other day, and those numbers that don't lie.
If we both agree that institutional bias against Michigan is unlikely against Michigan, what else do you think can explain these things? Is it just a big unfortunate coincidence. Is "institutional bias" not as unlikely as we may think? Or do you deny that there is even a pattern.
October 3rd, 2018 at 3:34 PM ^
Its coincidence. Michigan fans harp on the negative and forget any times they've been the beneficiary from questionable officiating and results. Yes it sucks the 2016 OSU game was poorly officiated but because its a big game it stands out more in people's memory than when we benefited from a questionable call to beat northwestern or indiana.
October 3rd, 2018 at 4:24 PM ^
You do realize that there is actual testimony regarding Delany specifically using officials to target Bo, right? Was that, "just a coincidence" too? In relatively rapid succession Michigan brings in Dave Brandon, a "Bo guy", and also an insufferable prick that butted heads with Delany, followed a few years later by another outspoken "Bo guy" in Harbaugh. Do you really think since we KNOW FOR A FACT that Bo was directly targeted by Delany (with impunity, I might add), that the next two "Bo guys" wouldn't also be similarly targeted?
Do you really think that Delany conducted a blind draw on the conference schedule reshuffle that sent us to MSU two years in a row and fucked up all our season ticket holders every other year? Really? You think that was just a coincidence? Now, add in penalty chart. Is that such a stretch? Or is it just too much to believe?
October 3rd, 2018 at 4:32 PM ^
Didn't a former head of officiating resign shortly after Delaney took over; citing it would be bad for officiating in the Big Ten?
October 3rd, 2018 at 4:51 PM ^
Delaney hated Bo. The end.
October 3rd, 2018 at 1:34 PM ^
Admitting it is one thing. Doing something about it is entirely another (and that, will never happen).
October 3rd, 2018 at 2:07 PM ^
Pretty meaningless unless some members of the officiating crew get held out of games as a disciplinary matter. I'm sure the B1G won't do that and probably wouldn't say anything if they did. One big black hole.
October 3rd, 2018 at 1:36 PM ^
Glad it didn’t cost the game, I was worried that it was going to at the time...ugh
October 3rd, 2018 at 1:39 PM ^
$5 is a latte cash for some coffee...
I'll show myself out.
October 3rd, 2018 at 1:52 PM ^
This is an open, welcoming forum. Don't hesitate to espresso your feelings.
October 3rd, 2018 at 2:15 PM ^
I don't know man, people can be kinda touchy here. Be careful or you'll get ground up by this crowd.
October 3rd, 2018 at 3:02 PM ^
I agree, people without a filter don't do well here. They just get roasted by this crowd.
October 3rd, 2018 at 3:53 PM ^
That's what makes Americano great!
October 3rd, 2018 at 9:32 PM ^
we can just pour over this data and finely grind the details
October 4th, 2018 at 12:50 AM ^
But some times these things can percolate and get out of hand.
October 4th, 2018 at 12:55 AM ^
And then one bad post after another until some star bucks the trend.
October 3rd, 2018 at 1:39 PM ^
Horrible writing: "The Wolverines (4-1, 2-0 Big Ten) this season have now been penalized 46 times for 421 yards, ranking them 122nd nationally in fewest penalty yards."
There are 130 FBS teams so a more appropriate statement would be 9th most penalty yards.
October 3rd, 2018 at 1:56 PM ^
What else would you expect from Aaron McMann?
October 3rd, 2018 at 5:14 PM ^
If it's the Aaron McMann that was the sports writer in Flint a few years back, he is not very knowledgable of the teams he is tasked to write about.
October 3rd, 2018 at 1:40 PM ^
Now do this but for the spot, B1G.
October 3rd, 2018 at 1:50 PM ^
How about for the ENTIRE The Game 2016? Zero live action calls on OSU = BS
October 3rd, 2018 at 1:42 PM ^
Yeah he mentioned on the ticket this morning that the league gave him an explanation of the call but he didn't say if they admitted fault or not.
October 3rd, 2018 at 2:48 PM ^
I didn't see confirmation of this in the linked article either. Just a reference to them asking JH a question if they had missed the call.
October 3rd, 2018 at 1:43 PM ^
easy solution: a ref can be ejected for a half for targeting a team with fake penalties
see how they like it.
October 3rd, 2018 at 1:51 PM ^
You sir, get it.
October 3rd, 2018 at 2:13 PM ^
Even if it’s accidental! Intent doesn’t matter!
October 3rd, 2018 at 3:24 PM ^
Have a AI system review crew performance, and pay them based on their performance. The worst case, they get paid minimum wage.
October 3rd, 2018 at 1:45 PM ^
well the good news is Maryland is just about even with us in penalties per play and per game, so should be a nice and even game this week?
October 3rd, 2018 at 1:48 PM ^
Hopefully this will reverse the collective officiating mind that became biased after Harbaugh took it too far vs Hawaii... We were up 50 and he is going ballistic on sideline on the line ref. I thought at the time it's a huge mistake, because it'd get the refs talking and itd cement a poor reputation.... As Harbaugh says we reap what we sow.... There definitely has been bias, and now it should reverse . He kept his mouth shut on the most ridiculous call ever and it almost cost him the game . Manuel needs to make them aware he's been punished ever since with bias calls and do his job getting the biased reversed, pointing out how it almost cost him the game and thus the season and Harbaugh didn't complain at that the time .That's how you reverse the collective mind to our favor.
October 3rd, 2018 at 1:52 PM ^
I think your theory is well founded and logical given some of the data and visual evidence supporting it. But this theoretical conversation between Manuel and Delany or the head of officials is probably not something that actually happens.
I would LOVE to believe that there's an expensive lunch happening somewhere and Manuel slides over a picture of the holding penalty graph and says "we know you're screwing us, here's just some of the evidence." And then he shows footage of Harbaugh controlling his emotions while other coaches are screaming their heads off without penalty. Then he just says "this stops now."
That would be amazing......and will never happen outside of our imagination.
October 3rd, 2018 at 2:32 PM ^
I know Thomas Shelby wouldn't put up with this shit. Warde needs a little Thomas Shelby in him.
October 3rd, 2018 at 2:45 PM ^
I love your the image you paint. Especially because it means Warde grows a pair of fucking balls and stands up to Delaney on behalf of Michigan, even if it means getting the Purdue table next year at the AD conference.
But like you said - this will NEVER happen. The Purdue table gets served last and sometimes they run out of desert before they get anything. Cant risk that.
October 3rd, 2018 at 3:40 PM ^
Warde, please invite me to that lunch! That way I can answer any clarifying questions...and make my own, unofficial threats...!
October 3rd, 2018 at 1:53 PM ^
Have any non-Michigan fans ever said anything about ref bias against Harbaugh due to his antics? Makes me curious because UM has been victim of some BAD officiating the last few years, with the centerpiece being The Game 2016.
October 3rd, 2018 at 2:08 PM ^
The only thing I've heard from any of the various talking heads is the usual 'win the game, or stop whining' type of drivel. Usually followed by the 'Harbaugh's antics bring it all on himself so he can be the center of attention' drivel... And it's always bullshit. The normal talking points:
Twitter - he's blasted people, but only AFTER they've blasted him, his program, or his school.
Recruiting (sleepover, tree climbing, camps) - so what? He did something unusual to get involved with a recruit, to make a difference. Aside from offering a bag of money, how is this any different from Kirby Smart flying in on his UGA helicopter? Satellite camps - were well within the rules, until they weren't because they were great for players. Did anyone complain about MSU's SMSB camps?
Tirades - haven't seen anything since 2016, and only when his team was negatively affected. What's he supposed to do?
Spring trips - he did something unusual and smart; he turned a negative into a positive. Talking heads complain about it when it suits them to, and praise it when that's good for them.
There is zero chance any talking head will rationally look at those holding charts and accept a sane conversation about bias. There is 100% chance they will say that argument is BS, and that Michigan fans are just complaining because Harbaugh hasn't 'won anything'. I wish I were wrong...
October 3rd, 2018 at 3:12 PM ^
I always fail to see the logic here. Whom should Warde tell?
"Hey Delaney, tell the refs to give us better calls?"
Or wait, do we actually believe that there is a cabal conspiring to ruin Michigan football? We . . . do?