The Snowflake Thread: Coaching
November 23rd, 2013 at 3:50 PM ^
Bo Schembechler never lost more than 3 games in one year in conference.
Gary Moeller never lost more than 3 games in one year in conference.
Lloyd Carr never lost more than 3 games in one year in conference.
That covers Michigan football between 1969 and 2007. Hoke and Rodriguez have had more than 3 losses in conference every year except two since 2007, despite the Big ten being at it's weakest point over that period. We need a coach who can win in conference. Every year, no matter what.
November 23rd, 2013 at 3:51 PM ^
AND THIS IS THE BEST HOKE CAN DO???? we got problems
November 23rd, 2013 at 3:55 PM ^
45 yards, 2:49 and 3 first downs later and it's Arizona 7-Oregon 0.
Then Oregon goes 3 and out.
Just sayin'.
I'll bet a bunch that that is superior to the first exchange that goes between M and OSU next week.
M offense not competent.
Are the players on the M offense worse than their counterparts at:
Purdue?
Illinois?
Iowa?
Indiana?
or, for that matter,
Rutgers or Maryland?
Their on-field performance is worse. Whaddya s'pose the difference might be?
Worst O in the Big 14. Contemplate that for a moment.
November 23rd, 2013 at 3:53 PM ^
RR's teams improved every year, Brady's teams have gotten worse.
RR got fired despite year-to-year improvement; it wasn't enough, apparently.
It's obvious that this is not the kind of thing Michigan expects, and a competent AD would start the search today for a new HC.
7-4 is a disasster of a season for a team with this kind of talent, despite their youth, and next week will be slaughter. There will be, and should be, calls for Hoke's termination.
But it won't happen. Brandon has neither the desire, nor the balls, to fire Hoke and his staff and face yet another rebuilding period. But as far as I'm concerned, this nonsense is on him.
November 23rd, 2013 at 3:59 PM ^
It's easy to fire someone else's hire.
Hoke was Brandon's hire. He won't do anything.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:11 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 7:33 PM ^
You're right, of course, RR is over. But that isn't my point.
If he's consistent, Brandon lets Hoke go.. I don't see that happening, of course, Hoke is his hire. He'll come up with his justifications.
Someone's gotta be out there who can bring the program back, though.
November 23rd, 2013 at 3:55 PM ^
Hoke: 26 wins; RR: 15 wins
Hoke: 0 Big Ten titles; RR: 0 Big Ten titles
Hoke: 3 total bowl games (2 in NYD); RR: 1 total bowl game (1 on NYD, amazingly)
Hoke: 4-5 vs rivals (assuming loss next week); RR: 2-7 vs rivals
The problem is that Hoke has gone down hill. 11-2; 8-5; 7-6???. RR was actually trending upward and you could argue that Hoke's 11-2 was with RR's players. The important items such as winning Big Ten titles and beating MSU and OSU - they are both big fails. And with the way MSU and OSU are playing, my question to the fan base - and Dave Brandon - is: do you think Hoke is the man to get us where we need to go? If the answer is yes, then we stay the course and hope young players improve and maybe make some tweaks to the staff. If not, then who is and let's go out and get that person, no matter the cost. After all, Stephen Ross didn't donate $100M to the athletic department for what we are currently displaying.
November 23rd, 2013 at 3:56 PM ^
I think that, yes, some questionable play calling, but I think we are fooling ourselves thinking that a coaching change would make the difference. Coaching doesn't drop passes, get beat on the line, or dive short of first down to avoid a hit. 2013 is the first time I can remember a Michigan team, as a whole, that has been more disrespectful of those who came before them. It scares me too because that is the traits the young kids will take away from this season.
I can deal with being out talented like 2008, but I can't remember being out classed so badly.
November 23rd, 2013 at 3:56 PM ^
Seriously, what more is there to say? It's bad.
November 23rd, 2013 at 3:57 PM ^
At least he has an excuse after losing his top two linebackers during the game. Gedeon wasn't ready and bolden is just average. Probably Iowa's defense last year would have looked better if their top two linebackers were not out. This is all on Borges, Brady Marinelli, and the offense. Literally the worst offense (maybe tied with Purdue) in the Big 10 right now. Youth or not, there is no excuse. They are just horrible at their jobs. You could probably bring in a high school coordinator off the street and be as effective as borges. Just an utter waste of talent.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:18 PM ^
I don't think his idea of fun in his older years is trying to keep Michigan as a 7-5 and 8-4 team. There's going come a point where he says this is not worth it, I thought we were going to be a great team and we are far from that.
November 23rd, 2013 at 3:57 PM ^
but. It's all on Hoke, Hoke, Hoke. There's only one person ultimately responsible for this team's performance and that's Brady Hoke. Hate to say it, but he might be in over his head.
November 23rd, 2013 at 3:57 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 3:57 PM ^
It is no longer just Al. Al is his guy. Coaches are supposed to know talent, that includes your staff. This is all Hoke now. Even in the "good" years, Borges was turned into the other D-coordinator's bitch (Va tech, MSU every f-ing time, now mighty Iowa, Awesome Nebraska, we could go on here). Loyalty needs to be earned. Fix this or both be gone.
November 23rd, 2013 at 3:58 PM ^
When Borges is asked why his shoes are always untied, he claims that the laces just "didn't execute well enough". Nevermind that he practices tieing his shoes with oven mitts on and blindfolded.
November 23rd, 2013 at 3:58 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 3:59 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:04 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 3:58 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 3:58 PM ^
RichRod up 14-0 on Oregon.
I'm wondering where all those former players are who call themselves "Michigan Men," and who openly criticized the sitting staff in the media, saying (among other things) that you have to run a pro-style to win in the B1G. Now, spread-based Ohio is clearly the class of the league while we are struggling to gain yards against defenses with average talent and coaching.
Boom, counterexampl'd.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:02 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:14 PM ^
The term Michigan Man lost pretty much all meaning in those three years, when they were torching the wrong guy, the guy whose worst quality was excessive loyalty, keeping his d-backs coach while losing a good D-coordinator and picking up the GERG.
The real punking should have been and should still be on Lloyd who left the program without a successor after 30 years in the program and 15 as Head Coach, and without players by failing to recruit and then helping guys transfer when he quit.
Uggh.
3rd gen M, 2nd gen M baseball, short on patience.
November 23rd, 2013 at 5:16 PM ^
The first seeds of destruction were planted around the time of the '05 recruiting class.
Lloyd, RichRod, Hoke, and many others (Bill Martin) share the blame.
I must admit that I am (in dark way) favorably impressed by the tireless defenders of Team Lloyd. He bequeathed the least talented overall team ('08) in the modern era to Rodriguez.
November 23rd, 2013 at 3:59 PM ^
I''m to the point now that I just don't care. It's that bad. This team is a joke, hard to watch, and the world is laughing at us. We may lose 72-0 next week.
Brady, you're a nice man, but you need to go.
November 23rd, 2013 at 3:59 PM ^
The problem with Hoke is that he is now in a league with real coaches, most of whom are better than he is.
He is one lucky hire (Mattison) from very probably being fired; Mattison has masked his general incompetence.
The team has been fairly lucky along the way: 9/10 times they lose both of the last two games against Northwestern, for example.
We are headed for the defining game of Hoke's tenure, which seems like a likely a** whooping against OSU.
At that point, Brandon is in a VERY BAD position. Stick with Hoke, and next year is a hot seat year, no matter what you say; fire him and it's rebuilding time again.
In some years we'll likely look back at this hire as an over-reaction to the culture mismatch that was RichRod. Yes, it was great to get someone who "got" Michigan; unfortunately, they picked the wrong guy. You know, Bo figured out how to be a Michigan man all on his own, and hopefully the next guy will too.
I feel bad for the players - they work too hard to be let down like this by overpaid mediocre coaches.
Finally, for all of you morons who are trying to blame DG, go hide under a rock. I don't care who is back there, this offense is incoherent and under-coached. Joe Montana himself would be curdled up in a little ball.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:03 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:07 PM ^
Agreed on DG. He does some not so great things, like running backwards, holding the ball too long, etc, but he's not helped by Borges calling long developing plays with 2 WRs running patterns against an O-Line that can't block or pick up blitzs. Not to mention the insistence on running out of the I formation where we have like a 95% chance of a negative play this year out of that formation. And then going to the same play over and over and over again that everyone knows its coming. Its like instead of using hand signals to send plays in, he's using a billboard size whiteboard
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:09 PM ^
If Hoke is not the guy, and two years of steady regression tells me that he is not, replace him! Otherwise we are just playing scared, with a it-could-be-worse mentality.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:21 PM ^
Unless UM surprises us all and is somehow competitive against OSU, Brandon is going to be on the hot seat too. Maybe not so much his job, but what to do with the football program. But make no mistake, Brandon's job is tied to the success of the football team. If this program is still sh*t in a couple of years, DB might be the AD anymore.
November 24th, 2013 at 12:12 AM ^
That young man is a credit to the University of Michigan. He has taken an incredible pounding and always pops right back up anxious to lead his teammates and do everything in his power to win.
November 23rd, 2013 at 3:59 PM ^
I will try to put it politely - it seems increasingly difficult to swallow that our typical yards per play performance, with the talent that we have, can be only 4.72 yards per play on average this year. Indeed, in three of our seven conference games, we have been outgained on a yards per snap basis, and on all of these occasions by a full yard or more (more than two yards, in two cases). Something is seriously amiss when we're coping with that level of inefficiency, and although I realize that in a lot of ways this is Al's first actual full year of doing Al things, there are a lot of questions.
There, I tried to be polite about my problems here.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:00 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:00 PM ^
He would fire Hokes ass after we get our ass handed to us by OSU!
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:36 PM ^
If Canham were AD, Hoke wouldn't have gotten the job to begin with.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:02 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:02 PM ^
have nice things. Going 10-1 and then having your bubble popped on New Years Day really sucked, but you could hold your head up high enough afterward and hope for more the next year.
Michigan has its winged helmets, the 110K stadium and a glorious football past.
I know there is a lot of good football things out there. Conference titles, BCS bowl wins, victories over rivals. For some reason Ohio can have it, but Michigan cannot.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:12 PM ^
Never offered Miles the job. That was all a big fraud that Miles used to motivate his own team. Carr vetoed any of the Miles talk.
We are just in some type of awful coaching cycle. Next year Hoke will be on the hot seat, good recruits will not come then the next coach in his third year will say Hoke did a horrible job recruiting and we have to wait for his guys to be seniors! This could last forever. It is time we just cut our losses and pony up some big bucks to a proven coach and his staff to jump ship over to Michigan. Only way we break this broken cycle.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:41 PM ^
I can only speak of what I have seen. I am 34 years old so I have been watching UM/OSU since the 90's. And, even we beat the tail out of them in the 90's we did so with less talent and typically a lower ranked team in the standings. When we beat them it was almost always an upset with a few exceptions. And, even later in the 2000's when we were closely matched they still beat us with better playmakers. Just look at how many guys got drafted to the NFL from each team from 1990-2012. Since 1993 OSU has 13 seasons with 10 or more wins and 6 seasons with one or fewer losses. In that same time span we have 7 seasons with 10 or more wins and only one year with one or fewer losses. As far as I'm concerned with the 90's they have just always been better than us.
Then, OSU canned Cooper and Tressel came in and got the already better players OSU had and started whipping our butts like they should and they have never looked back. So, for the last 20 years I've been watching they have always had better players, better talent, better recruiting, higher rankings, and went to better bowls. Even when we went to the Rose bowl it was because OSU was in the BCS championship game. We beat them for a time, but it was almost always an upset. I think the bottom line is that there is just more talent in Ohio than in Michigan. We can pull some kids out OH, but they typically still get the better share, the top kids, and have the better national brand which gets them the national talent outside the region too. So, for as I've been watching OSU has ALWAYS been better.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:04 PM ^
This may be a bit off topic, but I am sick and tired of hearing about physical running and seeing shit runs out of the I-Form. You can be physical at the line of scrimmage in any offense and any formation. Oregon has a physical line. Standford has a physical line. Baylor has a physical line. Three different teams, three different offenses. Those three teams all have identities while Michigan has none.
Hoke seems resistant to change just because he isn't comfortable with it. Didn't actually answer a press question about how he doesn't use the spread punt because he isn't comfortable with it? It's ridiculous to not coach a punt formation that is proven to work better most of the time. Each week my confidence in Hoke and company diminishes.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:05 PM ^
Watching Ohio State right now, I don't know how Urban resists the urge to just put an extraneous, unnecessary pounding on this team.
And I'm not a recruiting guy at all, but the fact that Hoke has been locking up these recruits so early can't help us right now. These guys are watching what's happening, and I can't imagine how a prospect could look at this program and think "this is where I will develop into an elite player, and this is where I will be put in the best position to win."
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:09 PM ^
will have his way with this team and enjoy it thoroughly, as will their fanbase. The only good that will come out of this pounding will be changes because D. Brandon will demand it. If nothing else, he's arrogant and does not like the Michigan brand to be embarrased. Changes will happen
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:35 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:07 PM ^
to hell and back.
I was wrong on scoring, but close on the games -- flubbed ND, undercalled the number of losses.
Fire.
Borges.
Let him find his own way back from Iowa City.
| 46 weeks 3 daysago | 9-4 |
L's: ND, PSU, MSU, OSU Borges will find a way to score less than 18 in each of those games. |
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:19 PM ^
No one likes an "I told you so"
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:28 PM ^
I hate the fact that it has come true -- the misuse of talent and putting people in positions in which they cannot succeed has been present since Al began dumping the offense that got him to 11-2, or whatever it was.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:43 PM ^
This I can endorse.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:07 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 7:03 PM ^
One correction, even though I am not a fan of Brandon - just this year the athletic department got a single 100 million dollar donation.
That is moolah.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:09 PM ^
Seems it is mostly "Fire Al Borges" at this point, but I think it's deeper than that. We have unsophisticated schemes and horrible half time adjustments and in game strategy.
Borges bashing is a distraction from the real issue. Now that even the biggest apologists have given up trying to rationalize the offense to "youth on the offensive line," you know we are at the point where we need to take a deeper look at the issues.
Brady Hoke is not and probably will not be an elite college football coach. He has stabilized the program because he is a "Michigan Man", but we will only become a middling B1G program like Nebraska or Iowa with him in charge. Wisconsin type 9-3 seasons are the ceiling under Hoke.
He has a heart of gold and can recruit like a madman because of his love and passion for the university...this is true. But with absolutely no involvement or ability to affect any change on the offensive side of the ball, and having an A+ defensive coordinator already running that side of the ball, he is basically a glorified cheerleader.
If you are going to be a figure head coach instead of a guru type, you need to hold coordinators accountable. Your house needs to be in order at all times...We are a sloppy, poorly coached team. We have become a program very similar to ND...where good recruits come to waste talent. Hoke has not the football mind nor leadership capacity to build this program into an elite product.
We can keep blaming and bitching about Borges, but it starts at the top. If Hoke was ready for the job, he would be making half time adjustments and be hands on in fixing the issues on offense.... Not to mention that Al Borges would have been fired already.