UFR: Punt coverage by PSU was NOT dirty

Bullshit!

This horse is already beaten enough. Let it alone.

If it was " dangerous as hell", shouldn't it have been a penalty?

A gunner getting someone out of the way shouldnt be able to block in the back unless the ball is already caught. I feel that at that moment your still the offensive team.

clipping?

No reason for what amounts to a block in the back. You can't justify shoving someone from behind. It is dangerous and something that needs to flagged.

Looks to me like PSU Gunner Guy reaches out to make that push -- i.e., not to "get someone out of his way" but to do something about having gotten beat. So no, "This was simply a gunner trying to get someone out of his way" is a load of crap.

The better PSU defense is "What the hell was your guy [by which I mean our guy, Warren] doing sprinting straight at the punt returner anyway?" The best Warren could have done, sans getting pushed, would have been to run himself out of the play. I don't think that (had Hemmingway wanted to return the kick) Warren would have been in a position to block anybody.

But yeah, let it drop (so to speak). Even if it wasn't dirty, it was dangerous, and there should be a penalty for that.

that this thread is gonna get ugly.

Except that intent isn't an element of kick catch interference.

When someone grabs a facemask, it is not necessarily their intent to harm the person and it is not inevitable for that person to get injured.

It is the same with a chop block, horse collars, and helmet-to-helmet hits. The rules are there to reduce the risk of serious injury to the players.

Saw this posted earlier, and I'll bring it up again b/c it helped clarify my thinking about it.

http://forum.officiating.com/football/54935-fed-block-back.html

This discussion is by what looks to be high school officials, but the situation presented is pretty spot on. The point that convinced me that it is a personal foul is, "The safety of the players is the first concern." That follows with the well-said, "Even if it wasn't dirty, it was dangerous, and there should be a penalty for that."

A Penn State fan doesn't think that it was dirty...

*shocking hand motion*

in the Redskin game in week 6 (as I recall). The gunner knocked the blocker into the return man and the ball hit one of the two (no injury) and the punting team recovered the ball. It was totally legal, the gunner is entitled to engage the blocker. (I'll leave to others whether it "should be made illegal.")

for those of you that have ESPN 360 access,it is 2:13:00 into the film

3rd quarter, 9:30 to go

He didn't say there was an intent to hurt someone. He did say that pushing someone in the back like that in the direction of the return man is dangerous. And it should be a penalty, imo. But yeah, dead horse and all.

I haven't seen the play but it sounds very similar to the block on John Ryan during last year's ND/UM game, during the kick return, the one that ended up shattering both of Weis's knees.

Obviously both took place in different areas on the field, but it sounds familiar.

It's unfortunate, but no penalty. Pushing a guy to get him out of your way is legal, it's just really unlucky that he falls and takes out Hemingway's knees. No one was seriously hurt, move on.

From memory, I'm not entirely sure whether Brian was suggesting that a penalty should have been called in that specific instance or whether he was suggesting that that sort of play should be recognized as a penalty in the future and spelled out in the rules. I think the distinction matters, and I'm not sure the argument in progress captures that distinction. I may be misunderstanding, though.

It doesn't take much to push someone down from behind when they're running full speed. Hemmingway was looking up, not looking for one of his own guys flying into his knees. Warren was trying to regain his footing in those TEN YARDS. It was a dangerous play that needs to result into a penalty. Hemmingway is sitting there as a defenseless player when he has that crap happen. That has the potential of being a career ending injury.

the kicking team cannot use their hands to push a potential blocker in the back after the line of scrimmage until the ball has been touched or hit the ground.

Don't know if you can call it a "dirty" play unless the result was intended. However, it was an obvious penalty that should have been called.

?

I watched it live and then I watched it drunk (two hours later), and this was a play that was certainly a penalty and should have (but never will be) called. I don't know if you're just trying to ellicit a response from the masses, but to say that this was not a penalty is inaccurate, in my opinion. I am not an official, I did not play college football, and I did not know President Kennedy... but that sure looked like a Push/Block in the back that nearly took out two of our players.

it was intentional at the time. Every time I see it it still looks intentional. If its not a penalty it definately should be. Hey PSU dude, I hate a lot of Big 10 teams long before I care about you guys, but your 10 yard argument is complete bullshit. If your gunner wanted Warren out of the way he would have pushed him aside, not into the returner. Your team is better this year....but that was bush league.

But it sure looks as if he is trying to guide him into the returner to me. If I wanted a guy out of my way I throw him to the side to get past. Not onto the ground in front of me so I have to then jump over him or go around him to get to where I want to be.

Watch the tape again and see if it doesn't look like the gunner is looking right at Hemingway and trying to guide Warren into him. He has his hands on his back for a couple of strides before actually shoving him in Hemingways direction.