Scouts have "cooled" on Moritz Wagner and are "neutral" on DJ Wilson after Oregon game
According to Chad Ford,
On Wagner:
"Wagner was the NBA scout darling of the first weekend of the NCAA tournament after he dropped 26 points on 11-for-14 shooting against Louisville. He had a much harder time against Oregon's Jordan Bell..... It's just one game, but it definitely cooled some scouts who were adamant last weekend that he's a lock for the first round."
On Wilson:
"Scouts continue to question his toughness and his readiness for the NBA. Most think he needs another year of school."
Full write-up Link
They're only 5'9". The rest is hair.
But isn't it too early for the weekly Posbang?
Kinda funny how perceptions can change so dramatically after one game. Makes me think neither was a particularly strong draft prospect this year. Good news for us of course.
Easy come easy go.
It was all silly to say he's off the board to a late 1st rounder due to 1 game. That was never true and if NCAA's didnt get so much attention the article wouldnt have been written.
I don't think perceptions changed dramatically after one game. I think Chad Ford is just bad at his job. Both kids were always coming back to school. Draft Express didn't mock either in the first or second round of this years draft. They both have some great tools to work with, but another year or two of development is in order. Rebounding, defense, and rim protection are things they need to work on this off season.
which is to get clicks on articles, not draft players. What better way to do that than write an article about the guy that just destroyed Louisville and became the talk of the tournament and who plays for the darling of the tournament? And at the same time scare the bejesus out of Michigan fans scrambling to click on his articles.
He'd get a lot less buzz and readership if he just kept his draft board mostly consistent, even though that is how a well-scouted draft board should be.
If he was an actual scout, your argument would be valid.
March 28th, 2017 at 10:27 AM ^
I swear, a guy has a good half and suddenly UM fans everywhere are screaming OMG, what about his pro prospects????!!!!! Is he leaving early? Might he leave us tomorrow?!
I'll bet there were posts at one point or another about Evan Smotrcyz leaving early, that's how ridiculous it gets.
These fans are related to the "It makes me feel really smart to be a 'go get your money' Wolverine fan." It's some variation on a failure to apply Pascal's Wager. It would be one thing if we derived any benefit from portraying ourselves as a fanbase that will be exceptionally reasonable about early entries, but because the guys who are most likely to weigh that as something appealing are among the least likely recruits to choose a program like ours, there's nothing gained. Better to not spastically rush to push anyone out the door who has the slightest hint of success or to push to send guys on the far edge of legitimate prospects to leave early. A school and fanbase like Wisconsin is said to have a "stay the extra year" culture, and it serves them well. We would have been falling all over ourselves to argue Kaminsky into starting his earnings clock. Dumb! What do we get from support for this sort of decision making? Why are people so addicted to it in our fanbase? I've been in favor of certain guys going - Stauskas because the iron was so hot, Burke, not the first ime, but yes, the second time - but if your school isn't a one and done factory, stop Iago whispering in anyone's ear who has the slightest of prospects.
March 28th, 2017 at 11:22 AM ^
It was hilarious reading all the posters parsing Wilson's comments last week then arriving at the conclusion "I think he's gone, I just have a feeling."
So damn annoying.
Paraphrased: NBA scouts tell Chad Ford he's overreacting nut job and that he should calm down.
what a clown.
They could have saved time and done that at the beginning of the season.
Makes sense. Both guys were pretty good but not unbelievable. There's always a risk for injury but both guys would be much higher up ithe boards in 2018.
win-win-win-win-win-win-win-win-win-win-win-win-win-win-win-win-win-win-win-win-win-win-win-win-win-win-win-win-win-win-win-win-win-win-win-win if both Wagner and Wilson stick with Michigan for another season.
but would we really only be 36-0 with an undefeated season? I think there'd be a few more in there.
but you get the idea...!
Well, this means they have to be better next year then because if they return and aren't, going to really hurt their draft stock. Here's to hoping for a great run in the 2018 tournaments! Win it all next year with cunning/quick inside game and silky smoothe mid range jumpers from those two. Make the offense complete and open it up for all the shooters.
Wagner needs to work on his game on defense and being more consistent on the offensive end.
Fantastic.
No on a serious note - I was more worried about DJ over Mo based on the last 2 months. Mo has been wildly inconsistent still - he has games he is all but a role player, but then jumped out like lightning vs Louisville. DJ has been way more consistent but yes one can question whether is ready for the physicality and rigors of the NBA.
Mo needs significant physical development, moreso than DJ in my opinion.
DJ needs to embrace physical play. His body is ready.
he still takes himself completely out of games at times when he gets discouraged. He's a sensitive, intelligent kid who needs to be sure he's all growns up before he takes on the *mentally* rigorous life of an NBA player, playing grown men, and in a world that is purely professional.
He made great strides on that count this year, but he starts with a lot of ground to cover.
Leaving before he's mentally ready would not be a good thing, imo. He's a kid I particularly think needs the benefit of another year in a college program and really needs a year where he has a leadership role on the squad.
In all honesty, I think Mo has a pro-mentality, so he's good on that count. But I think he needs the year for his body and to show more consistency in his game.
March 27th, 2017 at 11:19 PM ^
guy in the entire M fanbase, lol. I said it from the first time I saw him play at the Barclays. Fucking Dylan Ennis.
The NBA isn't our only threat for Wagner.
I think this has been overblown. Based on his Players Tribune article, he clearly loves being at Michigan. I also don't think there would be much of a benefit to going to play in Germany. It would be one thing if he didn't have a shot at the NBA, where he would want to go get paid while he still can, but that is not the case with Mo. I don't believe Germany is a real threat.
I think what hurts Mo is the fact that he gets into foul trouble. He's versatile and stretches the floor. The issue is that he loses his rhythm when we gets early fouls, not only on the offensive end but defensively he can't be aggressive.
As far as Chad Ford is concerned, the NCAA tournament was probably the first time that he got a good look at Mo. It got him a few more clicks. Hell, the drastic changes are probably responsible for half of his clicks. No one wants to see the same list for six months.
Wagner was invisible in the Oregon game but the weak link was MAAR. Kid was simply outclassed on both ends of the floor. If Beilein can raise the recruiting level just a tiny bit so we don't have such a crater getting extended minutes then we can be a Final 4 team.
Those bricks he threw up from 3 were very visible. He had a bad game, just like MAAR.
FYI, that crater scored 16 points against Okie State. Without that contribution, there is no Sweet 16 appearance.
March 27th, 2017 at 11:53 PM ^
People have bad games, it happens. But based on the incredible amount MAAR was underappreciated all year long, if anyone other than Walton deserved to have a bad game without being criticized, it is him. I thought at times throughout the year that he was our most consistent and best non-Walton player.
We will gladly keep them both.
with occasional flashes of elite level play, but the notion that they are ready to play in the NBA right now is absurd, and Bell proved that—if they couldn't deal with him, they'd get eaten alive by seasoned pros.
March 27th, 2017 at 10:08 PM ^
March 27th, 2017 at 10:40 PM ^
This is why people should never put too much stock in semi-anonymous scouts talking about college players on the "fringe" on the first round.
Neither Wagner nor Wilson have shown they can put forth the consistent production you need to be a first rounder. And there's no fault in that; they are still both quite young, and have taken major jumps forward in their games already. But stay another year, refine your strengths and address your weaknesses, and they'll both be close to lottery selections.
March 27th, 2017 at 11:01 PM ^
March 27th, 2017 at 11:18 PM ^
last year. Very different.
March 27th, 2017 at 10:48 PM ^
If one game changes anything...that's just dumb.
That said, neither is ready and both should return back to UM next year to improve their game.
Don't do it scouts. Those big games mean nothing...otherwise, Spike should've been a lottery pick after that Louisville game.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MAAR
Matthews
Robinson
Wilson
Wagner
OR
Simpson
MAAR
Matthews
Wilson
Wagner
...which lineup do you all have?
I'll go #2 and for minutes...
PG:
Simpson: 30
MAAR: 7
Brooks: 3
SG:
MAAR: 25
Matthews: 15
Poole: 7
SF:
Matthews: 17
Robinson: 22
PF:
Wilson: 27
Livers: 12
C:
Wagner: 25
Wilson: 5
Teske or Davis: 5
Rotation:
- MAAR: 32
- Matthews: 32
- Wilson: 32
- Simpson: 30
- Wagner: 25
- Robinson: 22
- Livers: 12
- Poole 7
- Teske or Davis: 5
-
Brooks: 3
I tried to get Watson some minutes, but we'll never have a 11-man rotation. Either Watson or Brooks and Teske or Davis will sit one more year before stepping into a nice roll in 2 years, IMO.
March 27th, 2017 at 11:57 PM ^