Not an Insider, but Connected to One Who Doesn't BS - Some Info
I wasn't going to create a post, but since someone in another thread thought it worthy for me to consolidate all of this, I will. Neg away if necessary.
I'm not an insider, nor do I pretend to be. My good friend used to work for the AD and I used to get updates from him....some may recall I was one of the first to report that the Covid season was not happening for the B1G and that UM was one of the main universities pushing back on it. Eventually that changed, but he was my source and how I knew it would be a fucked year months before hand.
Anyways, he no longer works there but is well connected and I can share only this. Again, this isn't a "trust me bro", he's always been a reliable source and hasn't had much info since he left, but per his contacts still there...
UM essentially has a dossier on other programs in the B1G and they are going to go scorched earth here if the B1G attacks continue. That dossier was there forever when he worked there, and they always joke, "in case of emergency, open binder" Ono and Harbaugh are beyond disgusted with the hypocrisy and find it absurd that it has gone this far in the media, given the stuff the B1G and the NCAA has buried for teams in the past, including sign "stealing" being common practice in the conference.. OSU has by far the most dirt (plenty from the Urban years), but still today even in NIL years as they are paying for visits. Urban wasn't just let go for the Zach Smith debacle...there was a lot more about to come to the surface as folks started digging in on the program.
If UM goes scorched earth, this will get nasty...and as he says....all the other programs combined don't add up to 10% or the dirt and infractions that have gone on at OSU.
The dossier is real and it's spectacular, from what I hear. Again the dirt focuses 90% on OSU -Urban era pay to play and still breaking today's NIL rules - paying recruits for visits.
My source claims there is a line item with amount paid $$$ to recruits families (those that committed elsewhere shared info) to visit vs. other school's averages per visit- and these are clearly well outside any norms- we're talking tens of thousands of dollars per recruit just to show up for campus recruiting events.
The sign sharing crap is nothing new and has been going on well before Harbaugh joined the conference, but it's basically been a war that has escalated since teams began colluding on it. 2018 was peak sign stealing escalation with the Mattison-Brown affair, and it's been all out since then.
There is supposedly a ton, and my buddy says just hundreds of obvious infractions specifically against OSU with receipts. OSU makes up 90% of the Kompromat if you will.
There are older docs on PED use at MSU and OSU, but hard to substantiate this if not in real time, but they have the trainers/suppliers info, but not athlete tests.
PSU also paid under the table for recruits, but nowhere near the level of OSU. Supposedly, the dirt on PSU isn't even news worthy. As much as I hate PSU and would love to shit fling, they apparently aren't a relatively bad actor here.
Lastly, I will add this. There is dead to rights evidence that after Day basically informed boosters that they need X $ more for "NIL", a number of incoming recruits closed as commits a months or so later, even a few out of left field. UM knows the players, the price, and the donors that made it happen. This is NOT NIL $ linked to biz deals, but straight up $ under the table to close the deal. I know the names of at least 4 recruits for whom this is true, but will not crap on players or their families and defame them for taking $ many others would. It's about OSU cheating, not tearing down the 4 players.
TLDR: Per my buddy that worked for the AD and still has contacts there, if UM goes scorched earth, it will be 90% on OSU and the stolen video/signs is nothing compared to what they have on that program over the past decade.
Importantly, the likes of Isiah Hole, Sam Webb and others know all this and much much more than me, but won't share as they don't want to lose sources or defame anyone - specifically if they get something wrong. They can only hint at it, or say "bombs coming soon". Unlike Thamel, they won't go all in on defamation - as you never know what you might get wrong. This is why folks like Hole and Webb have been so confident, along with why Santa is backing Harbaugh 100% on this.
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I will also add, this info is just what circulates amongst staff at the AD. He and others at his level never actually see all the info. The joke has always been..."In case of emergency, open binders"
So I speculate the info is much more detailed and news worthy, but won't go full Thamel here.
Lastly, yes, there is actually PED use at all major programs, as individual players or groups of players look for an edge. The allegation was that folks on MSU's staff and trainers were facilitating the acquisition of certain PED's as well as how to beat and/or avoid testing. Again, even with testimony from suppliers and/or staff, will be very hard to substantiate allegations going back to Dantonio era.
FWIW - UM did share some of the more egregious info with the B1G and NCAA over the years, who chose never to act.
November 7th, 2023 at 11:56 AM ^
I would love it if this whole story would just go away, but I will say that a side of me wants Michigan to just say "Fuck it" and put everything out there regardless of what the conference does.
November 7th, 2023 at 12:37 PM ^
If only the NCAA cared about buying players
November 7th, 2023 at 2:00 PM ^
Yea I think this is a thing - most fans, including me and a lot of people on this site - don't really view paying players as wrong. So that dirt doesn't really matter. The narrative of "michigan cheats" is that we got an unfair advantage on the field that didn't apply to getting the players on the field - that's basically a somewhat acceptable form of cheating to today's CFB fan.
If 90% of this is "OSU paid players," it's not going to hit hard. If it's "OSU paid for dirt on Michigan and stole their playbooks" then it'll work great. If it's "OSU played football good but is just a cesspool culturally" that's mid.
The AP story yesterday was in the "great" category. I'm guessing we started with our strongest point and are playing out the details until the Big Ten cries "UNCLE!" so I don't expect it to get much bigger than what was released yesterday, just more detailed and then later in the week some opinion pieces that make Big Ten fans sad. You know, what we went through. But if there are more scandals that come out from this - either that further take away the narrative of sign-gate or that further question the success of other programs (of which - only 1 has any recent success worth mentioning)
November 7th, 2023 at 4:56 PM ^
Uh ... i think you missed his point. (It was sarcasm,)
November 7th, 2023 at 4:51 PM ^
They care a lot when it's schools like SMU...but it's not worth looking into for schools like Ohio State and Alabama
November 7th, 2023 at 12:41 PM ^
This is the last real season of college football. There is a part of me that hopes we win the national championship, drop all the money laundering and illicit drug use info we have on msu and osu, and walk off into the sunset, throwing a match over our shoulder to burn it all down.
November 7th, 2023 at 3:16 PM ^
I would second that final scenario
November 7th, 2023 at 1:11 PM ^
Let's be real. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if osu had a similar dossier on Michigan (b/c they clearly hate Michigan more than Michigan hates them). I could see a crappier version being maintained by msu.
November 7th, 2023 at 1:15 PM ^
MSU's file on us just contains cutout pics of Wolverines with horns, eye patches and misspelled epithets scrawled crudely atop in crayon.
November 7th, 2023 at 1:56 PM ^
MSU used to have a dossier on us, but unfortunately for them they allowed Mel Tucker to take it home one weekend and now all the pages are stuck together.
November 7th, 2023 at 1:21 PM ^
You mean the Sparty verzhun has speling misteaks, ect?
November 7th, 2023 at 1:27 PM ^
That's a good point, and probably why they are being very strategic with what they are leaking. But I wouldn't be shocked if what OSU is doing is much worse than anything we're doing (though that could just be my homer talking)
November 7th, 2023 at 3:09 PM ^
Put it out there. Any/every school who is cheating should face the consequences.
November 7th, 2023 at 11:56 AM ^
As much as I want this to be true, if M doesn't release that info now, it's hard to believe it exists
November 7th, 2023 at 12:00 PM ^
I think the implication to the B1G is that don't touch Harbaugh and we'll keep quiet.
November 7th, 2023 at 12:21 PM ^
Save it for a rainy day.
November 7th, 2023 at 12:28 PM ^
Its still raining buckets right now. We should be dropping bombs daily until clear skies appear for miles and miles. But handing info privately to the conference is not enough, it has to be pushed out directly through the media, as mainstream as possible and as widely dispersed as possible. This is clearly what works to set the narrative.
November 7th, 2023 at 1:42 PM ^
November 7th, 2023 at 4:21 PM ^
This isn't just a rainy day, it's a hurricane. If you don't use it now why even have it.
November 7th, 2023 at 12:43 PM ^
I'd say, they want a statement from the BIG that this was not a large infraction or issue. It is common in the BIG to steal signs and legal. Harbaugh had no part of the Stallions sign stealing, and Michigan handled things appropriately with putting him on leave, and him resigning of his own accord. Michigan is not in any position to see sanctions from the BIG for anything that they have seen in this case and it is closed.
Anything less than that, and Michigan brings up all the OSU stuff. Now the BIG is going to try to punish their top two earners for the conference, while the rest of the conference is showing no signs of providing any good football. Weird how much pride their is in the SEC to have national Champions, and the BIG is actively trying to ruin chances at a title.
November 7th, 2023 at 1:16 PM ^
That's called blackmail, if I'm not mistaken. Best to just release it all, say everyone knew about all of it and did nothing about it, and move on.
November 7th, 2023 at 12:04 PM ^
I'm not sure I believe it exists, but let's say that it does. If Michigan can make this go away completely without releasing anything, they'll do that, right? No point otherwise in putting the cards on the table.
November 7th, 2023 at 12:07 PM ^
The whole reason this has escalated to the point where Tony Petitti is considering rash and ridiculous action against Michigan is because of a carefully calibrated campaign to make the Stalions allegations *look* as bad as possible. Anyone on Michigan's side in all of this can see that the way to handle a counter-campaign is not to release everything all at once. The play is to steadily continue escalating as needed. The documents that show organized stealing and sharing of Michigan's signs--as reported by SI and the AP--are a good place to start
November 7th, 2023 at 1:34 PM ^
Correct. First step is to release documentation showing that the conference is seeking to punish Michigan for the same thing that many other schools are doing. The next steps are to release new damning information about schools trying to blackball Harbaugh and smear the program that may not be related to "sign stealing" at all. If Michigan has a stronger counterattack, they are leaking the information in proper sequence.
November 7th, 2023 at 12:36 PM ^
Michigans point is to gain leverage by providing credible facts to the league and NCAA, which will funnel back to the other programs.
I believe this may delay or even prevent any infractions imposed on Michigan because now theses programs need to verify if this is true and what impact it will have on them. For OSU and other programs, probably determining how they can capitulate on their initial outrage without having to address their reason publicly…
I hope Michigan imposed a due by date to the league. If you don’t rescind in 72 hours, we are going forward
November 7th, 2023 at 12:38 PM ^
That's what they are trying to do.
November 7th, 2023 at 12:13 PM ^
Agreed, and the chances of it being hard evidence of any of the things the OP notes are pretty slim. How many Cam-Newton-getting-directly-paid-by-a-booster stories have resulted in no punishment?
November 7th, 2023 at 12:26 PM ^
Much as it would be nice, the goal is not to get [Ohio State] punished. We're not little bitches like that.
The goal is to demonstrate unambiguously that what we (allegedly) did is not THE WORST COLLEGE FOOTBALL SCANDAL EVER!! and to have everybody come to their senses and treat it like the trivial, administrative, pedantic "parking ticket" that it actually should be.
That is for now. The true scorched earth stuff can come later if needed. It won't be.
November 7th, 2023 at 1:08 PM ^
I think it's purpose is twofold. First, as you said, to demonstrate that this is not THE WORST COLLEGE FOOTBALL SCANDAL EVER! The fact that other programs colluded to share Michigan's signals proves how blatantly ridiculous Haller's claim that Staee players were "endangered" is. It also rebuts the claims that Michigan had some massive unfair advantage. Neither is true. Michigan had the same type of information that every other program had. The other coaches and big ten can quibble about whether the method in which Stallions obtained that information is technically in violation of the rules, but that's it. There was no cheating, there was no advantage. Second, it's an implicit threat to go nuclear if the Big 10 doesn't back down.
November 7th, 2023 at 12:23 PM ^
I buy it. Michigan has been all about player empowerment, so I can see them deciding to not share this info unless absolutely necessary. I can also see Michigan as taking the attitude OP states, that we aren't going to tattle but we have this info gathered if needed.
And now it's needed.
November 7th, 2023 at 12:24 PM ^
And one thing I've learned about court cases is that released info is a lot to go through and there are a myriad ways to fight it. Just the branding of calling program "sour grapes" incessantly for 6 months in a zillion different ways across all social media can turn a greater national fan base against a "releaser" and cause problems for future recruits...doesn't matter if you'reon the right side of the rules.
Don't underestimate the fight. If you must fight, make it worth it.
The Michigan administration has always been prudent about not releasing dirt. It's the second part that is interesting...as there may be more fight today then say an administration 20 years ago.
November 7th, 2023 at 12:37 PM ^
I agree. This could just as easily be something M folks are floating in order to scare people off -- their pee-tape, if you will. There could also be a folder filled with a bunch of unsubstantiated information/rumors, rather than verifiable facts.
If they had the goods, they would have already leaked them, or started leaking them. Like if there is widespread cheating at OSU, why wouldn't they already have reported that? And the AP report is just that: a report we haven't seen. So pump the brakes.
I just don't trust that people like Hole and Balas have enough skill to judiciously decipher what's real and what's smoke. They are not investigators. They are sports reporters who cover recruiting, etc. They have reported very little that is groundbreaking (or, in Balas' case, accurate.) They traffic in cryptic tweets. They quite possibly/probably are out of their depth here, though it would be great if they proved me wrong.
November 7th, 2023 at 12:41 PM ^
"Information, Greg, it's like a bottle of fine wine. You store it, you hoard it, you save it for a special occasion, and then you smash someone's fucking face in with it."
Relax, you take your time with a fine vintage like this. You don't just pop the cork off right away. You hold it. Caress it. Smell it. Let it breath for a bit. Really savor it and appreciate it's nuanced character. This is a momentus occasion. Almost spiritual.
. . . and then we smash their fuckin face in.
November 7th, 2023 at 1:00 PM ^
I think there would be a shelf life for any dirt being held in a binder over the years. Michigan is being attacked in the media. It's time to fight back fire with fire.
November 7th, 2023 at 1:48 PM ^
Leverage is pretty valuable.
November 7th, 2023 at 2:12 PM ^
Exactly
November 7th, 2023 at 3:25 PM ^
I'm with you. Hard to believe we wouldn't have already used it.
November 7th, 2023 at 11:56 AM ^
To paraphrase Hans Gruber, apparently I missed this episode of 60 minutes, but what is this in reference to: "2018 was peak sign stealing escalation with the Mattison-Brown affair"
November 7th, 2023 at 12:06 PM ^
Remember that time, when Greg Mattison was on Harbaugh's staff, and he had to work for Don Brown, and he was, like, I'm outta here yo, and I'm going to Columbus, and M was, like, fine, and Mattison was, like, fine, and I'm gonna take your signs, but he didn't tell them he was gonna take their signs, and then, like, osu scored a lot of points on great M defenses a couple years in a row while Mattison was on their coaching staff and Brown was eventually asked to go somewhere else.
QED
November 7th, 2023 at 12:12 PM ^
That's just proof of idiocy by Don Brown lol
November 7th, 2023 at 12:14 PM ^
Small point of order, but Mattison left after 2018 when we'd already been dive-bombed for 62. We got beat even worse next year, yes, but I would chalk that up to Chris Olave running crossing routes while Don Brown still manned up.
Yes, fuck Mattison anyways, but the larger point is that players and plays matter far more than signs
November 7th, 2023 at 12:14 PM ^
We didn't change our signs when a long time member of the coaching staff went to our biggest rival?
For "a couple years in a row?"
I don't believe it. If true, then either changing signs is *much* harder than I've been led to believe or our coaching staff are idiots.
November 7th, 2023 at 12:14 PM ^
Call me crazy, but if this is true, that is coaching malpractice on our end. One of your coordinators just went to the enemy, and you think he's just going to be honorable and not share what he knows. If they didn't change their signs in 2018 and 2019, much like the complaints about OSU losses due to sign-stealing despite the fact that they "allegedly knew we were stealing signs," it is coaching malpractice.
November 7th, 2023 at 12:17 PM ^
Did they really need signs to know that Don Brown was going to blitz every time and leave slow LBs and Safeties on islands against future NFL WRs?
November 7th, 2023 at 12:18 PM ^
Thats honestly a really bad look for Don Brown & Co if they had a former assistant working for OSU and didnt change their signs. Its almost hard to believe Brown wouldnt change his signs.
(Honestly signs or not - Don Brown's defenses were gonna get obliterated by OSU anyway. There wasn't a lot of mystery to what he was trying to do)
November 7th, 2023 at 12:19 PM ^
Or it wasn't about the signs and we just had a bad gameplan.
November 7th, 2023 at 11:57 AM ^
Totally fine with the stance that if they're going to suspend Harbaugh, we're going to reveal information that will make the Big Ten have to suspend OSU players.
November 7th, 2023 at 12:06 PM ^
I’m not an insider. I am the Mineral King. Harbaugh is not getting suspended and he is also not headed to the NFL. Slap on wrist at most for any of this. My dad was stealing signs in 8th grade football 25 years ago. Nobody truly cares and everyone does it and the rules are not concrete. No proof that Harbaugh or any one in charge were aware of any of this. Nothing is happening to any osu players either.
November 7th, 2023 at 12:11 PM ^
Thanks, Shea! Always good to have an insider's view!!
November 7th, 2023 at 12:13 PM ^
Welcome back, Shea!