Gentleman Squirrels

January 29th, 2018 at 6:21 PM ^

Gentleman Squirrels

January 29th, 2018 at 6:22 PM ^

Gentleman Squirrels

January 29th, 2018 at 6:22 PM ^

Year of Revenge II

January 29th, 2018 at 6:24 PM ^

This is so true from a common sense and collegiate athlete point of view.  However, every case is different, and there are due process considerations in many cases.

I do agree, though, that this nails it.

ijohnb

January 29th, 2018 at 6:31 PM ^

actually could use a break from all of this. I have the utmost sympathy for the victims of all of this and hope those in the wrong are held accountable as they should be. But just my personal opinion, I think this Board could use to focus elsewhere for a day or two. All of college athletics is not doom and gloom, some of it is awesome. I think I am ready to get back to that for a while. Go Blue.

In reply to by ijohnb

OldDad67

January 29th, 2018 at 6:41 PM ^

It is critical that the focus stays on this subject. Of couse, MSU, Dantonio, Izzo et. al, would love the focus to go away from them for a while. That's exactly the result they are hoping for. As I look to the MgoBoard subjects to the right, I see plenty of other topics that are not doom and gloom for you to focus on, and only 2 (as of my writing this post) regarding MSU. I suggest you focus on those and skip the ones referring to doom and gloom. Just my opinion.

In reply to by ijohnb

Cali's Goin' Blue

January 29th, 2018 at 7:56 PM ^

Honestly, this is awful and the University, as well as Izzo and Dark Mantonio should be held accountable so that this doesn't happen again. But the idea that creating board posts on Mgoblog is going to keep the spotlight on this is ridiculous. The spotlight is already on them and almost none of that is due to board posts on Mgoblog. We don't NEED to post every little new thing that comes out. If there are new facts, then sure. But some dude on Twitter's opinion? I totally believe that he is correct in his statements and they provide some good moral ground to stand on but this isn't anything new. If you haven't come up with the idea that Universities should be able to punish people without the necessary evidence needed in court, then I don't know what to tell you. 

We all agree that Izzo and Mork should be punished, I just want to make that clear. But what Ijohnb said isn't discounting what has been done. He made that very clear. But piling on when providing no new information over and over again on Mgoblog seems like it provides no value. 

In reply to by ijohnb

1WhoStayed

January 29th, 2018 at 8:37 PM ^

There seems to be a “vocal” minority here that thinks every new take is thread worthy. It was one thing when there was actual news. Now it’s just an echo chamber... chamber... chamber...

UMxWolverines

January 29th, 2018 at 7:03 PM ^

I'm not quite understanding this. Is he suggesting that if a girl comes a long and says "One of your players raped me", that player should be immediately suspended? I don't think that's how it works. I think said player should immediately be taken aside and talked to, but unless the police come ahead and say "Player X has been accused of rape, and the case is now open" I don't think you suspend the guy.

umchicago

January 29th, 2018 at 7:21 PM ^

never said that.  not even close.

multiple alleged gang rapes were swept under the rug with no penalty. it's not even a date rape or he said she said.  there were multiple gang rapes of women they didn't even know.

to even suggest it was consensual flies in the face of any logic or reasonableness.

UMxWolverines

January 29th, 2018 at 7:37 PM ^

True. Honestly I almost forget the University itself investigates these cases, probably because lately it seems like they don't really investigate them worth a crap. I wouldn't advise anybody opening a sexual assault case to just go to the University anymore. Whoever is doing the investigation should be notifying the coach immediately, and said player should be suspended until further notice.

greatlakestate

January 29th, 2018 at 9:02 PM ^

The current system of universities investigating rape allegations on their campuses doesn't work.  It's long been suggested by experts that all rape allegations should be immediately turned over to local law enforcement.  Campus police sometimes lack the expertise and resources and there can be considerable conflict of interest, especially when university (high profile) athletes are involved.  I really hope that some new processes are developed so that these things aren't left to any one person's personal judgement.  Students deserve better.

mooseman

January 29th, 2018 at 7:27 PM ^

"I'll/We'll cooperate with any investigation and always have...We've done it before and we'll do it moving forward"

 

was a pretty low bar as well. What else are you going to do? 

JTGoBlue

January 29th, 2018 at 7:40 PM ^

This was the main view reflected on the radio station that shall be unnamed, and a popular view on twitter: that if a player is not charged, or even charged but charges are dropped, that the player doesn't deserve to be disciplined.

Erik_in_Dayton

January 29th, 2018 at 8:03 PM ^

...it raises the difficult question of how a coach should determine what happened. I don’t think we’ve figured out how colleges should handle charges of rape, so there is nothing tried and true for a coach to fall back on.

PopeLando

January 29th, 2018 at 8:20 PM ^

I agree that it's a tough subject that has to be approached carefully. However. The approaches of "do nothing" and "sweep it under the rug" and "actively impede the investigation"...have all been tested and have failed. So let's have institutions start with not that, and go from there.

NateVolk

January 29th, 2018 at 8:50 PM ^

The problem with the short sighted viewpoint of hard core Mark and Tom defenders is it only accomplishes one very small thing (buys the possibility of of extra time for two very damaged coaches in their early 60s). And in the process of doing lame defenses for those two, the defenders do far larger damage to their school.

The world at large is never going to buy the "coach cooperated, referred it to the authorities and when they found nothing he did X" argument.

Only hard core fans of the team making that argument buy it. And by doing that, they sink the school deeper into an abyss. 

The "due process" of two coaches who common sense would tell you were at best not leading and at worse aiding in the the retention of abusers to win games, is far more important to them than the due process of anyone else. 

These fans look like  moronic knuckle draggers and they drag the school in the mud longer than it otherwise would be. 

 

justthinking

January 29th, 2018 at 9:06 PM ^

And Appling “kept going because he wanted to ejaculate or something”, that’s all I need to hear in that case. Izzo probably thought that if he temporarily suspended them it would show an admission of guilt, even though there were no formal charges brought against them. The media would ask why those guys were riding pine, even for one half of a game let alone longer, and then he would have to make up a lie that it was breaking team rules or let the whole cat out of the bag. Better that everyone count their blessings, start toting around a young terminally ill girl and win some more games. See how easy that happens? Prove me wrong. Man up and own it Izzo.

AMazinBlue

January 29th, 2018 at 10:53 PM ^

what happened is investigated.  And meanwhile the young woman who was abused sits in dark silence wondering if anyone is listening or even cares what happened to her.  If the player allegedly took illegal benefits, the coach suspends the player immediately to preserve the integrity of wins and losses on the field of play.

Why in God's name is a possible felony crime that may destroy a young woman's LIFE be any less significant.  The focus on the "fairness" for the player should come wayyyy down the list of importance.  

The safety and welfare of the victim and the quick, imparshal and accurate investigation to determine facts should be paramount.

Any coach, any administrator, any department head should put the welfare of the victim ahead of any desire to win or protect their own reputation.

What happens all too often is worrying about stature and preserving someone's reputation.  All leaders' first duty is to protect and defend those that cannot defend themselves.

I am sickened that they coaches and administrators even paused to think about preserving their own or the schools reputation when students have been attacked and abused.  What has this country become?

BlueMk1690

January 29th, 2018 at 11:04 PM ^

The one ‘fair’ thing you owe a player or anyone else accused of an act is that you determine if the accusation has merit. If that isn’t the case then everything you said there is without relevance. An innocent person accused of a crime is a victim, an innocent person suffering life consequences as a result of such an accusation is a tragedy. The question of the veracity of an accusation should be the very first thing to consider. People who blindly rush to conclusions and are not interested in a fair resolution are the kind of people who led lynch mobs in the not so distant past and caused some of the darkest chapters in American history.

AMazinBlue

January 29th, 2018 at 11:39 PM ^

or a lynch mob mentality.  Nothing of the sort.  In the case of what has allegedly transpired at MSU the investgation methods that have been used appear to have been "slow-played" in cases involving football and basketball players (revenue-generating sports) to the point of players missing no time and basically going unpunished.  The teams don't suffer, the coaches "integrity" is preserved and the school appears to sweep the allegations under the rug.

It's not like there is one or two cases here.  There is a culture of abuse and a system that protects the accused and does nothing for the true victims here.  MSU is not the only school where these things have happened.  It happened in Ann Arbor, PSU, Baylor, Florida State and probably most other major universities.

We have put such a premium on our sports teams and programs that rules are more like guidelines and coaches and administrators look the other way if the program helps the reputation of the school or brings in significant dollars.

Our moral compasses are way off and have given coaches of successful programs wayyy too much power.

griff32

January 30th, 2018 at 6:55 AM ^

I understand where you are coming from, but I think there needs to be a well thought out process for coaches to follow in these cases that makes a quick conclusion on wether the accusations hold merit or not. You may not remember, but the media was very quick to jump on the 2006 Duke lacrosse teatm, only to find they were falsely accussed. 

 

 The coaches need to have a set process for these and other cases that are brought to there attention so there is no doubt that they did address the issue according to the athletic departments standards. I hope that the Big 10 would look at this just like they should look at a minimum standard for facilities, At the very least I hope Michigan is creating a standard for all of the coaches to follow for the future.