Bryan Mac offers the perfect commentary on MSU situation
https://twitter.com/Bry_Mac/status/958112104493604864
if someone could embed this it would be great
absolutely nails it
January 29th, 2018 at 6:21 PM ^
I've had this conversation a number of times recently, so to get my thoughts out there:
— Bryan Mac (non-seasonal) (@Bry_Mac) January 29, 2018
If you require a criminal charge as a prerequisite for disciplining players for sexual impropriety, you're sending players a clear message that anything short of that is permissible.
January 29th, 2018 at 6:22 PM ^
The criminal justice system has a higher bar than the rest of the world because the consequences are so much more severe. Using THAT standard in place of your own judgment is abdicating your responsibilities as a "boss" and a leader of the team.
— Bryan Mac (non-seasonal) (@Bry_Mac) January 29, 2018
January 29th, 2018 at 6:22 PM ^
As an example, setting aside mandatory reporting stuff, if a student walks into your office and says, "one of your players raped me," and you only act if the prosecutor files charges, that's not "due process." That's cowardly. It's why we burned Baylor to the ground.
— Bryan Mac (non-seasonal) (@Bry_Mac) January 29, 2018
January 29th, 2018 at 6:23 PM ^
It also BEGS for a system where coaches and athletic departments work to keep things from becoming criminal case, and then turn around and use THAT as justification for not punishing players. Again, Baylor.
— Bryan Mac (non-seasonal) (@Bry_Mac) January 29, 2018
January 29th, 2018 at 6:23 PM ^
I don't know if those two players raped that poor girl 8 years ago. I wasn't there. I haven't spoken with her, or with them. But if your question is "they weren't prosecuted, so what was Izzo supposed to do," my answer is "his job."
— Bryan Mac (non-seasonal) (@Bry_Mac) January 29, 2018
January 29th, 2018 at 6:24 PM ^
This is so true from a common sense and collegiate athlete point of view. However, every case is different, and there are due process considerations in many cases.
I do agree, though, that this nails it.
January 29th, 2018 at 6:31 PM ^
January 29th, 2018 at 6:41 PM ^
It is critical that the focus stays on this subject. Of couse, MSU, Dantonio, Izzo et. al, would love the focus to go away from them for a while. That's exactly the result they are hoping for. As I look to the MgoBoard subjects to the right, I see plenty of other topics that are not doom and gloom for you to focus on, and only 2 (as of my writing this post) regarding MSU. I suggest you focus on those and skip the ones referring to doom and gloom. Just my opinion.
January 29th, 2018 at 6:50 PM ^
January 29th, 2018 at 7:48 PM ^
January 29th, 2018 at 7:56 PM ^
Honestly, this is awful and the University, as well as Izzo and Dark Mantonio should be held accountable so that this doesn't happen again. But the idea that creating board posts on Mgoblog is going to keep the spotlight on this is ridiculous. The spotlight is already on them and almost none of that is due to board posts on Mgoblog. We don't NEED to post every little new thing that comes out. If there are new facts, then sure. But some dude on Twitter's opinion? I totally believe that he is correct in his statements and they provide some good moral ground to stand on but this isn't anything new. If you haven't come up with the idea that Universities should be able to punish people without the necessary evidence needed in court, then I don't know what to tell you.
We all agree that Izzo and Mork should be punished, I just want to make that clear. But what Ijohnb said isn't discounting what has been done. He made that very clear. But piling on when providing no new information over and over again on Mgoblog seems like it provides no value.
January 30th, 2018 at 2:26 AM ^
I didn't even read your commentary but I gave you a plus 1 for your use of Dark Mantonio
January 29th, 2018 at 8:37 PM ^
January 29th, 2018 at 11:51 PM ^
January 29th, 2018 at 6:36 PM ^
So, the people who do Tough Mudder also do an 8-hour overnight as-far-as-you-can-go-in-8-hours obstacle race. And I thought to myself, “I bet people would pay good money to make an idiot do that.”
— Bryan Mac (non-seasonal) (@Bry_Mac) December 13, 2017
So that’s what we’re gonna do. https://t.co/yqBTqLDLYl
January 29th, 2018 at 10:18 PM ^
January 29th, 2018 at 6:38 PM ^
January 29th, 2018 at 6:41 PM ^
Please no. There's a line to be crossed between calling out bullshit that has happened and coming across as celebrating that it happened. A chant would signal the latter...so no.
January 29th, 2018 at 10:25 PM ^
When did you know it?
January 29th, 2018 at 6:45 PM ^
January 29th, 2018 at 6:54 PM ^
That's over the top.
Just wish him a fond farewell: "GOOD-BYE IZ-ZO!" You keep the focus on him, not on the crimes.
January 29th, 2018 at 8:13 PM ^
It's not the worst post ever, but it's pretty damned horrendous.
January 29th, 2018 at 9:38 PM ^
Whoever starts this thread should be kicked out immediately. We are talking about sexual assault victims here, and in no way should be they be used to "get inside the head" of a fucking basketball team.
January 29th, 2018 at 6:48 PM ^
January 29th, 2018 at 7:03 PM ^
January 29th, 2018 at 7:21 PM ^
never said that. not even close.
multiple alleged gang rapes were swept under the rug with no penalty. it's not even a date rape or he said she said. there were multiple gang rapes of women they didn't even know.
to even suggest it was consensual flies in the face of any logic or reasonableness.
January 29th, 2018 at 7:21 PM ^
That's a pretty baffling false dilemma.
Universities have their own investigation processes. These things can be checked out absent law enforcement. Picking one's ass sends a message of apathy.
January 29th, 2018 at 7:37 PM ^
January 29th, 2018 at 9:02 PM ^
The current system of universities investigating rape allegations on their campuses doesn't work. It's long been suggested by experts that all rape allegations should be immediately turned over to local law enforcement. Campus police sometimes lack the expertise and resources and there can be considerable conflict of interest, especially when university (high profile) athletes are involved. I really hope that some new processes are developed so that these things aren't left to any one person's personal judgement. Students deserve better.
January 30th, 2018 at 8:59 AM ^
Completely agree
January 29th, 2018 at 10:22 PM ^
then you really don't understand
January 29th, 2018 at 7:27 PM ^
"I'll/We'll cooperate with any investigation and always have...We've done it before and we'll do it moving forward"
was a pretty low bar as well. What else are you going to do?
January 29th, 2018 at 7:40 PM ^
January 29th, 2018 at 8:03 PM ^
January 29th, 2018 at 8:20 PM ^
January 30th, 2018 at 8:58 AM ^
should be handled by the prosecutor's office. But if the university / coach thinks the player did something inappropriate (even if they don't completey believe the accusor) then there should be some sort of punishment.
But as soon as the unversity hears the accusation, it has to go to the legal authorities.
January 29th, 2018 at 8:45 PM ^
January 29th, 2018 at 9:10 PM ^
January 29th, 2018 at 8:50 PM ^
The problem with the short sighted viewpoint of hard core Mark and Tom defenders is it only accomplishes one very small thing (buys the possibility of of extra time for two very damaged coaches in their early 60s). And in the process of doing lame defenses for those two, the defenders do far larger damage to their school.
The world at large is never going to buy the "coach cooperated, referred it to the authorities and when they found nothing he did X" argument.
Only hard core fans of the team making that argument buy it. And by doing that, they sink the school deeper into an abyss.
The "due process" of two coaches who common sense would tell you were at best not leading and at worse aiding in the the retention of abusers to win games, is far more important to them than the due process of anyone else.
These fans look like moronic knuckle draggers and they drag the school in the mud longer than it otherwise would be.
January 29th, 2018 at 9:06 PM ^
January 29th, 2018 at 9:20 PM ^
January 29th, 2018 at 9:32 PM ^
January 29th, 2018 at 10:53 PM ^
what happened is investigated. And meanwhile the young woman who was abused sits in dark silence wondering if anyone is listening or even cares what happened to her. If the player allegedly took illegal benefits, the coach suspends the player immediately to preserve the integrity of wins and losses on the field of play.
Why in God's name is a possible felony crime that may destroy a young woman's LIFE be any less significant. The focus on the "fairness" for the player should come wayyyy down the list of importance.
The safety and welfare of the victim and the quick, imparshal and accurate investigation to determine facts should be paramount.
Any coach, any administrator, any department head should put the welfare of the victim ahead of any desire to win or protect their own reputation.
What happens all too often is worrying about stature and preserving someone's reputation. All leaders' first duty is to protect and defend those that cannot defend themselves.
I am sickened that they coaches and administrators even paused to think about preserving their own or the schools reputation when students have been attacked and abused. What has this country become?
January 29th, 2018 at 11:04 PM ^
January 29th, 2018 at 11:39 PM ^
or a lynch mob mentality. Nothing of the sort. In the case of what has allegedly transpired at MSU the investgation methods that have been used appear to have been "slow-played" in cases involving football and basketball players (revenue-generating sports) to the point of players missing no time and basically going unpunished. The teams don't suffer, the coaches "integrity" is preserved and the school appears to sweep the allegations under the rug.
It's not like there is one or two cases here. There is a culture of abuse and a system that protects the accused and does nothing for the true victims here. MSU is not the only school where these things have happened. It happened in Ann Arbor, PSU, Baylor, Florida State and probably most other major universities.
We have put such a premium on our sports teams and programs that rules are more like guidelines and coaches and administrators look the other way if the program helps the reputation of the school or brings in significant dollars.
Our moral compasses are way off and have given coaches of successful programs wayyy too much power.
January 30th, 2018 at 6:55 AM ^
I understand where you are coming from, but I think there needs to be a well thought out process for coaches to follow in these cases that makes a quick conclusion on wether the accusations hold merit or not. You may not remember, but the media was very quick to jump on the 2006 Duke lacrosse teatm, only to find they were falsely accussed.
The coaches need to have a set process for these and other cases that are brought to there attention so there is no doubt that they did address the issue according to the athletic departments standards. I hope that the Big 10 would look at this just like they should look at a minimum standard for facilities, At the very least I hope Michigan is creating a standard for all of the coaches to follow for the future.