Beilein's seat
Beilein's seat is declared hot here:
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/14186981/parrish-coach…
Fair or not? Discuss.
If I recall correctly he was hired just after the '07 season. Benzing aside, this recruiting class looks really weak in retrospect, at least by Big Ten standards:
http://rivals.yahoo.com/michigan/basketball/recruiting/commitments/2008…
Of course, I realize that Cronin is unavailable. I'm not sure he was destined to be future All-American, though. As well, I think Benzing was an administrative long shot.
I also don't know much about recruiting cycles for basketball. Because of timing issues, it might not be fair to judge that class too harshly.
He has done better since then, and I'd be inclined to give him more time (two seasons at least). He's more of a system coach than most and he might need a full roster of "his guys."
October 26th, 2010 at 7:12 AM ^
I think the NCAA tourney appearance and win over Clemson buys him some time. That was the first tournament appearance for the program in 11 years.
If the team craps out this year and next, then maybe there would be something to the "hot seat" comment. The recruiting thus far has not been terrible. Would be nice to develop a big man.
October 26th, 2010 at 8:29 AM ^
they aren't going anywhere this year. In truth, he may have three years, because they can only be expected to BEGIN to threaten next year. . . and he has a spanky new five-year contract.
October 26th, 2010 at 7:13 AM ^
I look forward to football and basketball season's in which the discussion going into the season does not revolve around how hot the coaches seat is.
October 26th, 2010 at 8:29 AM ^
Frankly, I'm not that interested in the temperature of a coach's chair.
October 26th, 2010 at 11:59 AM ^
plus I thought that a coach's job--especially in the college game--was to develop talent. To all of the flame throwers out there: This takes TIME. (Which sucks sometimes, I get that. Nobody likes watching their favorite team lose.) If your life--as a fan--revolves around football/basketball season and your self-worth is dependent on your favorite team's success on the field; you need to get a life. Seriously.
October 26th, 2010 at 9:30 PM ^
Not to say my life revolves around Michigan football (it does not), but I will tell you - after the Indiana game this year, I definitely was feeling a lot of "swagger" (as the kids call it).
Winning just puts me in a better mood, damnit.
October 26th, 2010 at 7:19 AM ^
'11 will be the best one yet. If only he could convince a top end big man to come (or stay) in Michigan, the class would be one of the best in the nation (top 15 or so). Maybe he can borrow some of that snake oil from RR.
Not surprising to hear someone declare his seat is hot, but I think he should be given some leeway until the end of next year. College basketball success is all about recruiting well. He is gaining momentum and I suspect the team will show some vast improvement in by next year (will be tough to replace the amount of points they lost from last year).
Anyway, I think he is a great coach if he can just get some high end talent to work with. Yes he had two incredibly talented players the past two years, but was hard pressed to find points outside of those two.
October 26th, 2010 at 8:03 AM ^
His seat is not hot. Bill Martin just gave him a contract extension last year, so unless crap really hits the fan, nothing will happen for at least two years.
This year will be rough because we lost 2/3 of our scoring AND we have no seniors on this team... not even walk-ons who own clothing companies or appear in gubenatorial campaign ads.
I used to be mor skeptical of Beileins' recruiting, but it has significantly improved since his class of Stu Douglass and Zack Novak. As long as we can stomach this year (please get NIT bid), I imagine things will start turning around.
October 26th, 2010 at 8:20 AM ^
So, unless he gets engaged in something egregious, I can't imagine that his seat is truly hot at all. I swear people just write whatever idea pops into their head regardless of whether there are facts to refute it.
Beilein's contract extended through 2015-16 season | The Michigan Daily...
October 26th, 2010 at 7:20 PM ^
Plus a billion. Belien's seat is about as hot as Charley Weiss' seat in a pair of tight jeans.
October 26th, 2010 at 8:26 AM ^
After all the crap our B-Ball program has been through, we get the highest character guy out there, and people are thinking his seat is hot already? C'mon man! Give the guy some damn time. I realize that something provocative has to be written, but use some sense.
October 26th, 2010 at 12:16 PM ^
Agreed...given our past (even if it is not remotely an issue anymore), it's nice to have a coach that's the head of the NCAA ethics committee. He's a proven winner and a class act. He inherited Harris & Sims, but talk about a bare cupboard otherwise.
Re: recruiting- Michigan basketball has been in a gutter forever (minus the mysterious tourney run 2 years ago). Recruiting to a broken program isn't so easy when you're competing against Izzo & the Fab Five is remembered as a scandal, not a phenomenon, by these youngins. New facilities will help. Beilein isn't going anywhere, nor should we unless we want a death wish.
October 26th, 2010 at 10:10 AM ^
but if we finish at the bottom of the conference and don't make it to any postseason tournaments this season AND if the recruiting continues to be somewhat disappointing AND if we have another bad season next year, then I think it will definitely be warm at that point. Those are a lot of "ifs" though.
Edit: there are two interpretations of what constitutes a "hot seat":
1) Disgruntled/disappointed fans writing UNACCEPTABLE on message boards and blogs and yammering on radio call-in shows; or
2) Disgruntled/disappointed athletic directors writing UNACCEPTABLE in their emails to the coach and higher-ups in the university.
One is just so much meaningless hot air, the other is a bad sign for the coach.
October 26th, 2010 at 10:47 AM ^
Is there scenarios where his seat becomes hot sure, I mean if he doesn't take the program to another level. The occasional tournament appearance isn't enough, not here not with the resources they are putting into the program, not with the money he gets paid. They are seemingly headed in the right direction with the uptick in recruiting, but so far his best players have been Amaker holdovers, they are all gone. In terms of an actual hot seat barring total collapse he won't see a scenario two hot seat until year five if the program hasn't risen to the point it is competiting for big ten titles and a tournament regular again.
October 26th, 2010 at 12:24 PM ^
I think anyone writing about "hot seats" on anything with higher aspirations than Bleacher Report (and I would hope anything running under the CBS brand would have higher aspirations) should be hewing to the stricter definition.
October 26th, 2010 at 8:39 AM ^
As soon as Beilein gets a great inside presence/ consistent rebounding presence they will be just like WVU when he was there( A consistent tournament {NCAA-NIT} team with records over .500). Lets hope Metrics and Horford can hold their own this year and we see a very exciting team. In reality I don't think Beilein's seat should be hot.
October 26th, 2010 at 8:59 AM ^
What about in your imagination?
October 26th, 2010 at 9:18 AM ^
It just may be hot if he's gassy. But my imagination would rather not stray there.
October 26th, 2010 at 9:00 AM ^
This is one guy writing something - guessing he knows little about Michigan.
Who predicted us to finish last in the Big Ten? Could be true - I just hadn't seen it.
October 26th, 2010 at 9:01 AM ^
i think if he has a turrible year that his seat might get a little toasty. like if he left his seat warmer in his cadillac on a little too long. but nothing more than that.
October 26th, 2010 at 9:21 AM ^
Bielien inherited a train wreck of a basketball program. He got us to the tournament during his second year. His recruiting classes have gotten progressively better. The bottom line is job is safe. The writer obviously hasn't been following the Michigan basketball program over the last 13 years.
October 26th, 2010 at 5:51 PM ^
Amaker inherited a train wreck. We had two players worthy of a D-1 Scholarship, Blanchard and Robinson Jr. We had Avery Queen, Mike Gotfredson, and Dom Ingerson on this team. That team in 2001-02 went 11-18. Amaker then landed a decent class with Horton, Abram, Brown, and Hunter. They went 17-13, beat msu and finished 3rd in the big ten. They would have made the tournament but were on probation. Amaker followed that up with a decent class in Harris, Petway and Sims. They went 23-11, won the NIT, and seemed to be destined for better things. Then in 2004-05, Abram got hurt, Horton was suspended and they finished 13-18. Amaker got a pass, and rightly so. Horton assaulted his girlfriend and should have been suspended for the year, which he was.
In 2005-06, they went 18-10 (excluding the NIT run to the NIT final) But that doesnt tell the story. They started 16-3. They beat #11 msu and # 23 Wisconsin in the same week and seemed to be destined to compete for a big ten championship. They proceeded to be blown out @ Iowa by 30, lose @ Purdue (Purdue won 10 games that year), and lost at home to Indiana in the season finale. All uninspiring performances, they then dropped the first game of the BTT and were left out of the dance. Horton and co. graduated without going to the tournament.
In 2006-07, they went 21-12 (excluding NIT). They started 14-3 and collapsed. There would be a ton of roster turnover after this season. In the last 2 seasons these players graduated: Horton, Petway, Brown, Hunter, Sims, Abram, and Harris. Michigan had some young talent with Udoh and D. Sims, plus they had a recruiting class with Manny, Legion and Grady, plus LLP transferred in from Arizona. It seems to me that would be a good core for a solid team, and not a train wreck.
Beilein's biggest fault, fair or unfair, is letting Udoh transfer. His first two recruiting classes have left a lot to be desired, but I am optimistic about this class of freshman, and next year with brundidge and burke, we have some solid building blocks. Seat is definitely not hot, but he needs to show some promise this year, and they need to compete next year, otherwise I see no difference between where we would be in year 5 of Beilein compared to year 5 of Amaker.
October 26th, 2010 at 9:42 PM ^
I've tried to make this point in other threads, but well done. Beilein didn't walk into a great situation, but it wasn't a train wreck either. As always, things aren't as simple as people would make it out to be.
October 26th, 2010 at 9:24 AM ^
read to much into the contract extension, we have seen that contract extensions are often not even indicators of job secuirty in this day and age.
I think that JB had a really dissapointing season last year, as I did not think the team really looked like a prepared or motivated basketball team. I don't think he made the most of his personnel and went system over substance in a year in which they could have made some noise. Last year made the tourney appearance and relative success look more like a fluke than anything else.
As such, I don't think he is as comfy as he was 18 months ago, but I think he has a little more wiggle room than this peice indicates. Keep in mind, nearly none of the past success of the Michigan basketball team, dating back possibly to the 89 title run, was on the level. Tommy A. got four years to bring some dignity back to the program, and I feel like he was successful. This is phase 2, and the program has a long way to go.
October 26th, 2010 at 9:35 AM ^
Tommy got six years to turn this thing around. This Athletic Department, for better or worse, does not change course quickly. Beilein's seat is cold.
October 26th, 2010 at 9:46 AM ^
it was six years, wasn't it. Man, time flies when you are going 9-22.
October 26th, 2010 at 10:17 AM ^
Michigan was successful before Ed Martin got in. Martin piggybacked onto Watson, who was hired to make sure Rose and Webber came to Michigan. Michigan had a lot of success before then. People forget, but until the Ed Martin cluster, Michigan's program was better than or at the very least equal to that of MSU.
Michigan got in trouble because of the FBI probe into Ed Martin's organized gambling, and because Tom Izzo had earlier encouraged Mateen Cleaves to turn them in after the auto accident. Through negative recruiting, Izzo leveraged the Martin cluster into a recruiting advantage that Michigan is just now starting to reduce. They have more than paid for five years or so of Ed Martin and Perry Watson, and the entire program shouldn't be judged for one brief era in its history.
No elite program does everything "on the level." Even if the coaches do everything perfectly and ethically, there are plenty of boosters, agents, runners, wannabes, and hangers-on to pretty much guarantee that there are plenty of violations going on under the table. Some programs are just a lot better than others at not getting caught. Michigan wasn't one of "those," and they never will be.
October 26th, 2010 at 10:25 AM ^
much more on the topic than I do, so I concede any future argument.
All I know is that the over the back call on Jimmy King on Jalen's missed leaner against Arkansas was bullshit! If he gets that board, thats a bucket, even more momentum, and we sweep aside the Razorbacks. After that it was Arizona, we have way way to much size, we take em out. Than Duke, we avenge the earlier loss, and boom, National Champs baby!!
Sorry, got carried away.
October 26th, 2010 at 1:02 PM ^
I've always wondered what would have happened if UM hadn't played *right* into the hands of Loyola Marymount in 1990. There was a lot of talent left over from the '89 championship team. They beat Duke earlier that year in a great game.
October 26th, 2010 at 10:38 AM ^
Yeah, it is all Izzo's fault that Michigan cheated and broke rules.
Good grief.
October 27th, 2010 at 1:32 PM ^
Tater's reality distortion field stretches across every corner of the Michigan online sports community from mlive to annarbor.com to mgoblog.
October 26th, 2010 at 11:08 AM ^
Ed Martin was involved to some level with a lot of big time PSL recruits extending back to Joubert. Perry Watson didn't bring Martin into the program, Fisher (to lesser extent Frieder) did. Watson in fact steered Jalen away from Ed Martin and for that reason Jalen still is involved with the University. Fisher was even caught forging Watson's intials when they left comped tickets for Martin. But yes Michigan was succesful before Ed Martin, Rudy T, Ricky Greene, Cazzie and Campy multiple final fours, Michigan basketball has a long history of success.
STEVE FISHER is the #1 person responsible for bringing down the Michigan Basketball program. To say that every program does it is BS, Fisher openly courted Martin who he had to of known was dirty. Tom Izzo could've done the same thing but didn't, can every program follow the letter of the law? No. Can you control what all your players are doing? No. But what Michigan did then and USC did with Reggie Bush is creating an "atmosphere" that invites it. Michigan cheated, so did USC. UM has learned from it's mistakes and now makes a point of hiring basketball coaches with integrity and Athletic Department wide promotes adhering to that integrity.
October 26th, 2010 at 12:30 PM ^
T green about all the nice "favors" he did for mo pete and m cleaves. Lol. Izzo is as shady as it gets
October 26th, 2010 at 9:23 PM ^
Ed Martin was involved with Michigan players, but he was involved with Detroit players. Players that went to Minnesota, MSU, and other schools. He died, the NCAA never really dug any further, we basically hammered ourselves, and that's how it went down. But there were a lot of players all over he was betting on hitting it big.
October 26th, 2010 at 3:34 PM ^
STEVE FISHER is the #1 person responsible for bringing down the Michigan Basketball program
No, Brian Ellerbe is #1 by a mile. (With dishonorable mention to Tom Goss for hiring Ellerbe.) The Ed Martin scandal, by itself, did not doom us to a dozen years of crap basketball. There are NCAA scandals every year. Most programs get through them and return to where they were. Heck, OSU has had two major scandals in the past 20 years, and look at them. Our problem was that we hired a man who had just been fired by Loyola of Maryland, a man who had zero control over his players on and off the court, and who had zero in-state recruiting ties to boot.
Ellerbe allowed the program to be destroyed. We then compounded the problem by 1) hiring a mediocre guy (Amaker) to replace him and 2) refusing to spend a dime on facilities for years. But if we'd simply hired a halfway competent guy to replace Fisher (such as one of his assistants, none of whom were involved in the scandal), things would have been very, very different.
October 26th, 2010 at 9:28 PM ^
But Frieder wasn't clean either. Bo never felt like things were on the up and up over there, and that's why he slammed the door on him on his way out. And he was right; Rumeal had basically admitted to taking money (among other things).
<br>
<br>But they made the run to the title, and basically Bo's hands were tied. It'd be interesting to see what would have happened if they hadn't won and Bo had hired someone (probably whoever Bobby Knight recommended).
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<br>But the only thing Tater got right was that historically we were a better basketball program by far than MSU. At the end of the Fab 5 run, we were probably a top 10 all time program. But then all my old memories of Michigan Basketball are tainted.
October 26th, 2010 at 9:50 AM ^
...is probably made of some sort of foam cushion with a nice leather exterior.
October 26th, 2010 at 9:51 AM ^
but I do think he needs to improve over last year within the next 2 years. We significantly underperformed last year IMO, and that was with a junior Manny (not likely to get someone like him in the future, plz be good THJ) and a senior Sims. However, we also significantly overperformed our expectations 2 years ago, so JB has shown he can get it done.
We have a super super young team of his guys now and I'm willing to let them age a bit to see what JB can do with them.
October 26th, 2010 at 10:23 AM ^
...the MBB program going in the right direction, low expectations for 2010-11 notwithstanding. The new basketball practice/office facility and Crisler upgrades have already significantly aided recruiting and that's before they're complete.
His seat is cold.
October 26th, 2010 at 10:22 AM ^
Umm, subpar recruiting?
take a look at the espn rankings for the last 3 years. We are moving in the right direction. They're rankings are
Darius Morris (ESPNU100) 90
Vogrich89
McLimans 85
Morgan 79
Smotrycz (ESPNU 100) 94
Hardaway (ESPNU 100) 93
Horford 88
Christian 85
Brundige (ESPNU 100) 96
Burke (ESPNU 100) 95
and we are in the top 3 for amir williams (ESPNU 100) 96.
and glenn robinson (94) is committed for next year already.
We have been lacking big men, but injury to cronin and morgan didn't help. He is on the right track. We've been in the toilet long enough, we can wait a few more years with Beilien.
October 26th, 2010 at 10:44 AM ^
It’s too easy to be pessimistic about Michigan’s 2010-11 men’s basketball season. Could this season be the low-point in Michigan basketball history and the greatest challenge in John Beilein’s coaching career? It might.
Without having seen any pre-season predictions, I would not be surprised to see Michigan picked to finish last in the Big Ten by most prognosticators. But I’ve been impressed by how John Beilein seems to keep his cool, despite the heat on his coaching seat at Michigan, and I would be surprised to see him coaching elsewhere next season. Maybe he'll like the challenge of a "hot seat" and keep his team and his other coaches more focused.
If he can lead a team with no seniors, two juniors, no star players, negligible front-court height and few players who would be starters on any other team in the Big Ten to as many as ten wins this coming season, John Beilein’s job should be very safe for the 2011-12 season. A season with fewer than five wins, with two of those wins coming against South Carolina Upstate and Concordia and none of them coming in the Big Ten, and dissension within the player ranks might signal a different result (unless the average margin of defeat is kept under ten points and there are few blowout losses.)
If Michigan’s players remain relatively healthy, if their outside shots fall at a better-than-40% pace, so they limit the one-and-done trips that plagued them last season, if they can play aggressive defense for 40 minutes (maybe rotating as many as 12 players to keep everyone fresh, limit foul-out risks, and not overextend the freshmen who will be expected to contribute), 10 wins this season should be a reasonable goal. Anything better should be considered a success.
October 26th, 2010 at 10:49 AM ^
I seem to remember 5 freshmen doing ok in the past.
October 26th, 2010 at 12:05 PM ^
I also remember that leading to the death of the program for years and years. I'll take a steady building process over a Calipari-esqu violation fest.
October 26th, 2010 at 10:46 AM ^
That is all
October 26th, 2010 at 10:56 AM ^
Continuity is always best, but continuity is way less important in basketball. 1 or 2 impact players can turn the fortune of a team and the future of a program.
Those factors work for Coach Beilein and could work against him if improvement isn't shown.
I am way less confident about his security long term than I am Rich's.
October 26th, 2010 at 5:56 PM ^
that you are right about rich.
October 26th, 2010 at 11:35 AM ^
When I need a good cry, I google Benzing. The guy has turned into Dirk Nowitzki Jr.
October 26th, 2010 at 11:50 AM ^
I know these guys have a job to do, but Beilein should not be mentioned as a guy who has any concerns about his future at Michigan. He's been recruiting well, he has a new training facility under construction, he's revamped his staff and he's finally able to run his style of offense with his players. Lastly, he did a nice job of fitting Sims and Harris within a semi-version of his offense the past couple of years. They obviously were not well suited for it, but both the coach and the players altered their original expectations and we had a nice little run in the NCAA tourney two years ago.
October 26th, 2010 at 11:50 AM ^
Tepid right now. What that national commentator is doing is getting some vibes about what "could" happen by season's end. And this could be an AWFUL season: the range of outcomes includes getting repeatedly blown out, game after game, in the Big Ten. It COULD be very embarrassing. And that kind of messy result becomes reality where you have alot of underclasssmen, and too many "sixth men" not only starting, but attempting to lead the way. (Douglass and Novak - Don't get me wrong, I love those two, but they are, by rights, complimentary, not trail-breaking guys.)
If we win 5 to 7 games this year, Beilein could be sitting on some pretty warm coals. The other disturbing factor, I think, is that he hasn't shown any facility for getting the "home-state" guys away from MSU (and even Central.) Maybe it's dwelling too much on the past, but no college team in Michigan has roundly succeeded without having a predominance of the best players out of Detroit, Flint, and Saginaw. Beilein, as far as I can tell, not only has had little success recruiting in Michigan -- it's not at all clear he is focussed on doing the kinds fo things you need to do to build that base. That's not good.