[Bryan Fuller]

The Enemy, Ranked 2023: Defensive Line Comment Count

Alex.Drain August 16th, 2023 at 9:00 AM

Previously: QuarterbackRunning BackReceivers, Offensive Line

The Enemy, Ranked now shifts to the defensive side of the ball as we break down Michigan's opponents for the 2023 season. Today we start in the trenches, looking at the opposing defensive lines. While perhaps not quite as grim as offensive line, I can't say I came away from this exercise terribly enthused by the opposing defensive lines. Yet again you can partly chalk that up to the schedule, avoiding Illinois, Wisconsin, and Iowa, but I also am not sure how great of a year for the B1G on the DL this is in general. Regardless, let's get going: 

 

12. Bowling Green 

DE DT DT JACK
Jordan Porter Anthony Hawkins Dontrez Brown Demetrius Hardamon
Ali Saad Davonte Miles Billie Roberts Chasius Howell

Today we start off with a tight battle for the bottom of the list between BGSU and the team just ahead of them, but I ultimately opted to go with the Falcons in 12th place. Bowling Green's DL last season was a solid group, emerging as one of the strengths of the defense, but now they lose three of four starters and are in for a bit of a rebuild. To make matters worse, Anthony Hawkins, the one returning starter, graded out pretty poorly in PFF's data. We should note that it's not all bad though. DT Dontez Brown and JACK Demetrius Hardamon, who are now leveling up to the starter role, were rotational pieces last season, each logging >250 snaps. They aren't completely inexperienced and both charted pretty well in their appearances.

The other EDGE spot is pretty murky though. I listed Jordan Porter as the starter since he has played the most at Bowling Green, but it could easily be one-time Minnesota transfer Ali Saad or UTSA transfer Chace Davis. Those three are all pretty inexperienced and haven't done much when they've played. As a whole, this defensive line is not in a terrible position for a Gof5 unit, but it's not in a good spot either, with three new starters, multiple players taking on elevated roles, and no proven impact starters. They're not far off from being #11 but I narrowly opted to put them here. 

[AFTER THE JUMP: more defensive lines]

 

[Lucas Peltier]

11. UNLV 

DE NT DT RUSH
Jalen Dixon Darius Johnson Waisale Muavesi Carter Zavier
Nathan Arguelles Cooper Webb Naki Fahina Brennon Scott

See, I said there were similarities... one returning starter and it's a DT! In a lot of ways, the Rebels have a nearly identical layout to Bowling Green, a returning starter at DT, two new starters that each played legit rotational snaps a year ago, and then one spot on the depth chart that's very up in the air. Those two new starters who are familiar to LV fans are Jalen Dixon and Waisale Muavesi, who each played more than 250 snaps last season with middling grading. Darius Johnson, the one returning starter, graded out a bit better than BGSU's in PFF's grading, but again, pretty similar situation. 

For UNLV, the question mark position is their RUSH edge spot, where some changes in defensive scheme under new coordinator Mike Scherer has shaken things up. Right now I'm listing LSU transfer Carter Zavier, a legit 4* who didn't see the field much at all in two seasons in Baton Rouge, as the starter. This depth chart got muddled when Ryan Keeler tragically died this spring, or else he would've probably been listed ahead of Zavier. Moreover, Elijah Shelton was a key pass-rusher last season but he may now be a true LB rather than an EDGE, so he'll show up in the next piece. JUCO transfer Nathan Arguelles and Brennon Scott, who was a useful piece back in 2021 but missed 2022 with injury, are also in the mix as depth EDGEs. I'm not exactly sure how this depth chart is going to shake out, so I'm leaving it pretty open-ended as a whole.

In comparison to BGSU, I decided to rank UNLV narrowly ahead because I like their one returning starter a bit more and the talent level at the question mark position is a bit better, though BGSU's two-deep is probably preferable. Honestly I could've made these two a tie to start the list, except that I never do ties so let's go with it this way. 

 

10. Nebraska

DE DT DT OLB/EDGE
Princewill Umanmielen Ty Robinson Cam Lenhardt MJ Sherman
Blaise Gunnerson Elijah Jeudy Nash Hutmacher Jimari Butler

Our first B1G team on the list is the Huskers and the reason is self-explanatory: there is a legitimate chance they could start multiple true freshmen on the defensive line. Now look, they are talented true freshmen, both solid 4*s nestled in the 250-300 range of the composite, but they are still true freshmen being slated to start at positions where you very much don't want that to be the case. The reason is a hollowing out of Nebraska's depth chart in the trenches, especially at EDGE, where they lost Ochaun Mathis, Garrett Nelson, and Caleb Tannor, the only three Huskers to have >2 sacks last season. This left Matt Rhule in a position of frantically trying to toss a depth chart together at the position. 

His solutions include our name of the week candidate Princewill Umanmielen, one of the aforementioned true freshman. Other options are MJ Sherman, a transfer in after a seldom-used career at UGA, and then deep depth pieces from last season Jimari Butler/Blaise Gunnerson, who combined for barely 150 snaps. You can also toss converted tight end AJ Rollins in that category, but it doesn't change the base line at all. Long story short at EDGE... not ideal! 

The tackle position, which you may recall getting blown off the field repeatedly by Michigan in the game last year, doesn't appear to be much better. Ty Robinson is a multi-year starter, the only pillar of stability on the whole line, but he has been subpar in both of his seasons. I described my reason for putting the cyan on him in last year's FFFF: 

Robinson is a returning starter, off of last year's very good three-man DL with Damion Daniels and Ben Stille. He was the weakest of the three last year, though, and seems to have regressed further, with an extremely poor showing against Illinois

Probably not great to have him be your one returning starter. Next to him could be Nash Hutmacher, who played 204 unsatisfactory snaps last season and was also cyan'd or the other true freshman, Cam Lenhardt. TAMU transfer Elijah Jeudy is also in the mix, but he seldom saw the field in College Station. Right now there is no projected area of strength on this defensive line and could honestly have three or more cyans starting if we were diagramming it right now. It's going to be a multi-year project for Rhule's staff trying to reconstruct this DL and that's enough reason for me to park Nebraska at #10. 

 

Blake Corum might be getting to the second level often against Maryland this year [Bryan Fuller]

9. Maryland

DE NT DT JACK
Quashon Fuller Jordan Phillips Tommy Akingbesote Donnell Brown
  Taisze Johnson Lavon Johnson Riyad Wilmot

Maryland was last on my ranking of defensive lines last year among B1G opponents and this year have an almost entirely different depth chart. They move out of the cellar among B1G squads, but that's not any testament to Maryland. This is still a dire situation. The entire starting four that I projected last summer have all departed College Park, as have two backups, so this is a real who's who of new Terps defensive linemen. Given that level of attrition, Mike Locksley understandably knew that he had to dip into the portal to replenish the depth chart and boy did he ever: three of my four projected starters in the above chart are transfers. 

Maybe the biggest get was FCS superstar Donnell Brown from St. Francis (PA). How will he translate to the FBS? Not sure, but he was a heck of a player at his former level, DPOY for the NEC in '22. Jordan Phillips at NT is a RS Fr, a former 3* transferring in after the riding the pine at Tennessee for a year while. Quashon Fuller is a transfer from FSU who logged four seasons with the Noles, never playing much though. The one non-transfer projected starter is Tommy Akingbesote, who got 224 snaps for the Terps last year and was quite bad when he played. It's a starting group that is not terribly experienced, has no experience playing together as a unit, and is counting on multiple players to pop at a new school/new level of CFB. 

If that isn't creaky enough, the reserves are just as much of wild cards. No transfers among the ones I listed, but none of them have ever logged 150+ snaps in a season and Lavon Johnson is a true freshman (3*). I guess you can argue that Maryland is decently well positioned to stomach injuries because it isn't clear that the starters are better than the backups, but that's not a good statement; rather it's an indictment of the whole unit. In most circumstances, Maryland would rank last among B1G teams on this list, but Nebraska taking it another step further with potentially multiple Tr Fr starting was the reason I put Maryland just ahead. 

 

8. East Carolina

DE NT DT RUSH
Chad Stephens Elijah Morris D'Anta Johnson Jeremy Lewis
  Jason Shuford JD Lampley Jack Powers

For the first time since the QB piece, one of the non-con opponents usurps a B1G squad and it's ECU's stout defensive line. The Pirates return three starters, all of whom graded out respectably well in PFF's charting, and the fourth starter played 278 snaps last season. They also have three reserve DL who all logged 100+ snaps, so this is a unit that is experienced and more than competent. Chad Stephens and Jeremy Lewis return on the edges, combining for seven sacks last season though they profile better as run defenders, anchoring what is a strong rush D as a whole. Jack Powers had a sack last year in 170 snaps and figures to be next man up on the edge if needed. 

At tackle, Elijah Morris is a fourth year player and a returning starter, while his classmate D'Anta Johnson was close to starter status last year, logging 278 snaps of his own. JD Lampley actually played a few more snaps than Johnson did (albeit with worse results) and projects as the first man off the bench at the position, while Jason Shuford rounds out the two deep, another fourth year player who can bring years of experience in the program to help. There are no immediate transfers in the mix, everyone is an upperclassman, three returning starters who posted good results for a Group of 5 program last year + real depth, that's enough for me to put them in front of B1G teams who have no defensive lines for all intents and purposes. ECU may honestly finish the season higher than this, but I'll leave 'em at #8 for now. 

 

[Patrick Barron]

7. Indiana

DE NG DT DE
Andre Carter Patrick Lucas Philip Blidi Myles Jackson
Trey Laing LeDarrius Cox Marcus Burris Jr. Lanell Carr Jr. 

If you thought Maryland had a lot of transfers, let me introduce you to the Indiana Hoosiers. Tom Allen dove head first into the portal for a transfer bonanza, so much so that five of the eight players listed in the above chart are transfers in. The biggest pick up is probably DE Andre Carter from WMU, who eclipsed an 80 grade from PFF and was second team All-MAC. I doubt he will be that good in the B1G but a high end Group of 5 EDGE will likely be at least a solid starter in the P5 and he brings with him years of starting experience in CFB. Myles Jackson at the opposite DE spot is one of the few returners on this group, 336 snaps a year ago as a rotational piece with middling results, while the depth is from the portal, Lanell Carr Jr. from TT (319 snaps last year) and Trey Laing, who was an elite FCS player at Southern U.

At DT, Allen got Philip Blidi from Texas Tech, not a starter but a rotational piece for the Red Raiders, while Patrick Lucas slides in after being a reserve for IU last season behind Sio Nofoagatoto'a. Based on my charting and PFF's numbers, I doubt either are going to be impact players but again, they have college football experience and are merely taking a step forward in role, rather than being tossed into the deep end. The depth is a little thinner, LeDarrius Cox did play a decent bit last year for Indiana but didn't do terribly well, while Marcus Burris Jr. arrives from TAMU after two seasons of rarely seeing the field. The high volume of transfers and the caliber of play they've shown (mixed, at best) means there's a ceiling on where I was willing to rank IU, but in comparison to the atrocious situations at Nebraska and Maryland, I don't think this group should be terrible. Probably not great, but their transfers in have more FBS experience than Maryland's and in Carter's case, much better results. 

 

6. Purdue

DE NT DT EDGE/OLB
Isaiah Nichols Cole Brevard Malik Langham Kydran Jenkins
  Demarjhe Lewis Jeffrey M'Ba Khordae Sydnor

Ryan Walters is installing his 3-4 system from Illinois at Purdue, but since I count primary pass-rushers as EDGEs for the purpose of this piece, EDGE/OLB pass-rusher is included in this article and not in the LBs one (as I did last year with Illinois). Purdue's DL that Walters inherits is in a rebuild after their 2022 unit was ravaged by the $EC in the offseason. Toss in the coaching change and it indeed looks quite different, with two transfer starters in Isaiah Nichols, who stared at Arkansas, and Malik Langham, who was very close to being considered a starter at Vandy (formerly Florida). Neither guy graded out favorably in PFF's data, but you take what you can get. 

Cole Brevard is slated to start between them, the third DT on the depth chart last year for the Boilers who logged 275 snaps (I didn't have any notable takes on him when I did FFFF). Projected to play at the stand-up EDGE spot is Kydran Jenkins, who was their LEO last year, dropping into coverage a decent bit, so he should be a decent fit for that spot. Jenkins and his backup Khordae Sydnor combined for 8.5 sacks last season so at the very least, there should be some pass-rushing pop on the outside, the spot on the line that projects to be the strength as opposed to the much iffier true DL. The reserves for the true DL spots include Frenchman/Auburn transfer Jeffrey M'Ba as well as Dermarjhe Lewis, who was bad in 2021 and missed last season with injury. It's not a great group, but a few more in-house options and marginally less reliance on transfers (plus, these transfers being SEC borderline starters) were why I put Purdue a nose ahead of the hated Hoosiers. 

 

[247 Sports]

5. Minnesota

SDE NT DT RUSH
Jalen Logan-Redding Kyler Baugh Darnell Jefferies Danny Striggow
Jah Joyner Logan Richter Deven Eastern Chris Collins

The Gophers represent another tier up from Purdue, replacing a couple starters but with plenty of familiar faces and decent options to choose between in filling in the gaps, as opposed to a treasure trove of transfers. Thomas Rush departs at one EDGE spot (the one that tends to drop into coverage) and is replaced by Danny Striggow, who has seemed well-groomed to take over that position, playing 284 snaps last season with solid results. Opposite him at the SDE spot among the traditional three man DL is Jalen Logan-Redding, a returning starter. Logan-Redding is joined by Kyler Baugh at the nose position, giving a fair bit of experience among the starting group on the defensive line and all of them project to be of decent quality as players. They lost a starter in the portal at the other DT spot, but Darnell Jeffries also has gotten on the field some, but that is an area to pay attention to. 

Among the reserves, Jah Joyner at EDGE came on strong late last year and could be a player that blows up in 2023. Transfer Chris Collins was also close to starting status at UNC, deepening that EDGE position, while the defensive tackle backups are a bit more dicey, hulking converted OL Logan Richter and the largely untested Deven Eastern (now a RS So). Minnesota's group doesn't wow me or have the upside that I think these next two groups do with individual pieces, but like so many other positional groups in this series, the Gophers have a high floor because they're a well-run program, with well-maintained internal depth and aren't sprinting to the portal to shakily plug holes (unlike IU/Purdue). There's an expectation of competency and this group should totally be able to provide it. 

 

4. Michigan State 

DE NG DT DE
Avery Dunn Simeon Barrow Derrick Harmon Tunmise Adeleye
Zion Young Maverick Hansen Dre Butler Khris Bogle

If there's hope for MSU's season, it's that the strength of both their offense and the defense is arguably in the trenches. On offense it's a relative "strength" but on defense, it's a real strength. They've got pass-rushing questions to answer but it should be a pretty solid unit against the run with plausible depth. As always, the strength of the defense for Michigan State is at tackle, where they lose Jacob Slade, but we have a pretty good idea of what that looks like due to the injuries he suffered last year. Slade never really seemed 100% and the focus instead turned to Simeon Barrow and Derrick Harmon. Barrow in particular popped for me, while Harmon was next to Maverick Hansen as decent players with potential to keep improving. Dre Butler joins the depth chart from Liberty (also JUCO and Auburn previously), a 5th year player who shouldn't be expected to do a ton but will help make the Spartans deeper. Barrow may not be a superstar yet, but this remains a strong group that is probably the deepest area on their team. 

Edge is more unproven, but they don't lack options. The new name on the block is Texas A&M transfer Tunmise Adeleye, a former blue chip prospect who never got on the field much with the Aggies but the Spartan insiders are hyping him up. Anecdotal reporting suggests Adeleye should be better against the run than the pass. Khris Bogle was a big transfer add last offseason from Florida who battled injuries and we never got to truly see what he was capable of. What he can do in 2022 is anyone's guess, but I do think he has potential to provide more on-field production.

At the other DE spot you have Avery Dunn and Zion Young, players who were underclassmen pressed into duty too soon last season when Jacoby Windmon moved to LB and injuries struck Bogle. I can't say I love anyone at EDGE but they all have played some college football and three of the four are now third year players or older, so they're starting to ripen to the age where more can be expected. That's the case for optimism and when you mix a mildly competent EDGE group with a decently strong DT group, you get a top four ranking on this list. 

 

[David Wilcomes]

3. Rutgers 

DE DT NT DE
Aaron Lewis Kyonte Hamilton Mayan Ahanotu Wesley Bailey
Mohamed Toure Troy Rainey Isaiah Iton  Jordan Thompson

Rutgers returns three solid starters on the defensive line, which helps propel them to the #3 spot on the list. The most famous of the starters for readers of this site is Aaron Lewis, the one-time Michigan commit who opted to play at home during COVID. The native New Jerseyan has developed into a quality EDGE player, not quite a star but has the chance to get there this year as a pass-rusher who is solid against the run. I could see Lewis getting All-B1G consideration when the 2023 season is up. Wesley Bailey is not as far along as Lewis, but was by no means bad either. Those two will soak up the majority of the snaps at EDGE, while they'll get help in pass-rushing from Mohamed Toure, who profiles as a SLB style EDGE. Toure missed last year with injury but was a reliable piece in 2021. 

The interior defensive line returns Kyonte Hamilton, a mediocre player last season who's a bit undersized for tackle, and then has some question marks after that. Mayan Ahanotu and Troy Rainey both had rotational roles at tackle on last year's defense and neither player set themselves apart or proved they were knocking on the door of starter caliber. Schiano added a JUCO transfer (formerly of Ole Miss) in Isaiah Iton to help out, but the Rutgers faithful will be looking for someone to step forward and snag a real job here. When comparing Rutgers to MSU, the Scarlet Knights are stronger at EDGE while MSU is stronger at DT. It was very close between the two but three returning starters against two for MSU was enough for me to put Rutgers ahead but both teams should be moderately formidable on the defensive line in 2023 (neither knock my socks off though). 

 

2. Penn State 

DE NG DT DE
Adisa Isaac Hakeem Beamon Dvon Ellies Chop Robinson
Amin Vanover Zane Durrant Coziah Izzard Dani Dennis-Sutton

The Nittanys take the #2 slot again, just a shade below the other B1G East heavyweight, but don't take this ranking to mean that PSU has no questions on the DL. While their ranking is bolstered by the returning production, there is a sizable looming question at the DT spot in particular. PJ Mustipher departs after an extremely long career that saw him decline in his later years, not the player he once was in 2022. Still, he was a reliable pillar for PSU on the interior and now they enter the post-Mustipher era without an obvious answer at the DT spot. All of Hakeem BeamonDvon ElliesCoziah Izzard, and Zane Durant logged at least 150 snaps last season but none stuck out in any major way. Not necessarily pure cyan territory, but no impact players and they certainly weren't immune from getting blown away by great IOLs last year (*motions towards Michigan-PSU 2022 tape*). Like the next team on the list, the biggest question on the DL is whether their DT room can progress to a level above "fine". 

At EDGE, much hype revolves around the return of Chop Robinson, who wasn't technically a starter last season but was close to it, a very strong pass rusher who PFF was crazy for. I thought he was a good player, but was a bit underwhelmed by his performances against Michigan/Ohio State. Regardless, 5.5 sacks is not nothing and now he'll be a third year player, looking to take that leap. Can he become a dominant, every-down pass rusher who can also be trusted against the run? Adisa Isaac probably isn't going to become that, though he was a decent player as a starting EDGE a year ago. Among the reserves, the biggest hope is probably Dani Dennis-Sutton, a former 5* who will now be a second year piece and could be expected to take a big leap forward after plenty of spring buzz. 

In totality, I ranked PSU at #2 because I like OSU's defensive tackles a bit more and the level of talent overall is a notch higher for the Bucks, but these two are pretty close and they both have similar questions, talented EDGEs looking to make the leap and defensive tackles needing to go from okay to great to scare me as a Michigan fan. 

 

[Patrick Barron]

1. Ohio State 

DE DT DT DE
JT Tuimoloau Ty Hamilton Michael Hall  Jack Sawyer
Kenyatta Jackson Tyleik Williams Tywone Malone Caden Curry

Another list, another time OSU ranks at #1, but I am not completely sold on this group yet. Reasons for optimism include the further maturation of their two former 5* EDGEs, JT Tuimoloau and Jack Sawyer, who are now aging into their third seasons. After a couple seasons getting to be shielded by Zach Harrison and Tyreke Smith while they aged into a starting capacity, those two are now going to be expected to do all the heavy lifting themselves. Both show up on NFL Draft rankings for 2024 due to their recruiting profile, but they have more growing to do at the NCAA level to earn that ranking.

Sawyer had his moments but still only played 329 snaps. Is he ready to handle 500 snaps and to do so with solid production? As for JTT, he was at least a starter last season, but the question for him is stringing an entire season together. Tuimoloau was the talk of college football after his massive performance in late October against PSU, but his close to the season was disappointing, not noticeable against UGA/Michigan in my viewings, which is backed up by PFF ratings in the 50s over his last five games. JTT could make another jump and get to Chase Young/Bosa territory, but he needs to actually do it- and do it against quality competition- before I coronate him. The focus on Tuimoloau and Sawyer is emboldened by the fact that the reserves, Kenyatta Jackson and Caden Curry, while talented, are young (both second year) and unproven. The best hope to get quality play at the EDGE position for OSU is to have JTT/Sawyer pop as juniors and since both were 5*s, that ought to be the expectation. 

Tackle is a position that is a more simplistic version of what it was last year, from a five man rotation down to three or four. The player who soaked up the most snaps from last year, Taron Vincent, moves on but I was not at all convinced he was one of their best DTs among the many that the Bucks rotated through. Ty Hamilton was next in terms of usage, a nominal returning starter, but I was also not terribly convinced about his prowess. More intriguing are Michael Hall, who the scouts love, and Tyleik Williams, who was your author's favorite of this group. To round out this two-deep, they added a former touted recruit as a transfer from Ole Miss in Tywone Malone, but I'm not sure of his role this upcoming season after being seldom used in two years with the Rebels. 

The big question for OSU and this DT group is whether someone (or ideally two players) can emerge as Dudes. Last year, the DTs were just guys and that was a major part of why they played Cover 0/1 as often as they did in The Game... Knowles knew his DTs couldn't hang in there against the IOL of Michigan without help (see: the one drive where they dropped the safeties back and what happened). These players are all talented, they've gained an extra year of experience. I wouldn't be shocked if one or two make a leap to being a legitimate problem, but we shall see if they get there. I like the DTs more than those of PSU and that's why they're here at #1, but both EDGE and tackle have some questions to answer going into this season. As you can tell, I'm not enthused about anyone's DL in this article. 

 

[Patrick Barron]

Where would Michigan rank?

I think they'd rank first. It may be closer than it appears, because Michigan does have some questions on the DL, particularly which EDGEs will emerge and how much organic pass rush they can generate, but the unit as a whole is the deepest among these teams listed. At EDGE they have a "returning starter" in Jaylen Harrell, a transfer in who was a starter elsewhere in Josaiah Stewart, and then a player in Derrick Moore where it's reasonable to expect a sizable step forward and the same could be said for Braiden McGregor with another year removed from his HS injury. It doesn't have a name like a Chop Robinson or a JTT, but at the same time, I'm not sure the actual on-field output will be terribly different and that's what matters. 

Where I really like Michigan over PSU/OSU is at defensive tackle, if we are able to reasonably project with Mason Graham going forward. Kris Jenkins was already a quality player last year and now we're hearing rumblings about another leap forward (coming in Football Bits later this week). If Graham also takes a leap, as is reasonable to expect like with Derrick Moore, that could be the best DT tandem in the B1G hands down. Toss in Rayshaun Benny as a rock solid 3rd DT and again, you have serious depth, which is always important at a position like defensive line. The combination of depth and a rising star in Jenkins + possibly Graham and others is enough to put them ahead of some DLs I like but definitely don't love at #1/2 on this list. 

Comments

Buy Bushwood

August 16th, 2023 at 9:52 AM ^

Exactly what I think when I hear pundits talk about JJ, Edwards, Johnson, and that Harbaugh got these great 5-stars to put us over the top.  But to me, what Harbaugh has actually done, is to build up the deepest and most ferocious OL and DL in the B1G, whom few teams (especially OSU and PSU) can go toe-to-toe with for a full 60 minutes.  You see this continue to be the emphasis in recruiting.  While they are great to have, it wasn't the 5-stars who won those games in 2021.  

dragonchild

August 16th, 2023 at 10:29 AM ^

And they call them "the trenches" for a reason, and not out of intentional disrespect to those who actually fought in No-Man's Land.  It's a rough job; it takes mental toughness to do it.

Which is why I'm not even sure I'd rank OSU #1.  They certainly have the potential; those DEs have physical gifts other players can only dream of, but they all have serious conditioning & motor problems.

OSU terrifies me if they actually manage to pull it together; I don't know if Michigan even has a chance.  But if they're basically now a finishing school for NFL debutantes, then it's an unjustified fear.  'Cuz I figure you are who you are in the last game of the season, and last time they were sssssaaaaawft.

S.G. Rice

August 16th, 2023 at 12:55 PM ^

It will be interesting to see if Larry Johnson Sr. still has it or if he's lost a step.  He's been among the very best DL coaches for a long time and has plenty of talent to work with, but there is a lot of work to be done if the OSU DL is going to be an elite (or even very good) unit.

truferblue22

August 16th, 2023 at 11:55 AM ^

Agreed. Which is why I was so bummed to see msu higher on these lists. Life is much sweeter when they're pure dogshit. 

They're also a team that when ranked high always falls apart and when dismissed usually is much better -- I know it's early to start worry about them, but that's gonna be yet another tough out (as always), plus it'll be in east shithole and likely at night. 

Hail-Storm

August 16th, 2023 at 12:43 PM ^

I'll admit, I like seeing MSU low on these lists.  I was hoping for a glaring hole in their OL so that none of their options at running back or QB has time to do anything but run and turtle with sacks. Looks like they may be ok on stopping the run, but with little pash rush and (if last years position group holds true) their secondary playing a soft 15 yard coverage on recievers, this D may give up a lot of yards still.  I hope they get destroyed by Michigan.  I am sick of seeing their players attempt to hurt our players every year.  I want them to be 2-2 against us, with the next win feeling like a long long way off.  

alum96

August 16th, 2023 at 2:07 PM ^

MSU will be an interesting case study.  For all the mocking of the OL it's experienced and better than a lot of opponents and MSU front 7 on defense is pretty darn good.  Secondary and skill players lacking.  So if trenches are the way to go they could stumble their way to the holy land of 7 wins. Of course giving UM a fight as they are content to go 1-11 every yr as long as the 1 is vs us.  Meanwhile getting curb stomped annually by OSU which they could care less about..

Michael Scarn

August 16th, 2023 at 4:39 PM ^

I have placed futures on MSU to hit the over on season win total and agree they will be better this year.  I think some of their struggles last year were due to key injuries at places without depth.

Based on BTN tailgate, they sure seem pretty happy with their revamped front 4.  But between Haladay's limitations and what I assume will be Windmon still playing out of position, I think they have a lot to prove before we can consider them anything other than above average to good in the front 7.

I think they win 6-7 games and find a way to make the game against us tough.  But as bullish as I am on them given their schedule, still have to see them stop the run with split safeties.

matty blue

August 17th, 2023 at 5:21 AM ^

They're also a team that when ranked high always falls apart and when dismissed usually is much better

i know what you’re saying, and i’ve thought that way for a long time, but the “us against the world” / disrespekt thing came straight from dantonio.  i don’t know that mel can instill that same attitude.

unWavering

August 16th, 2023 at 9:26 AM ^

So far Michigan ranks first in the OL, RB, QB, and DL spots, and I suspect we'll be pretty close for LBs and Safety. I think we may have a pretty good team this year

alum96

August 16th, 2023 at 2:09 PM ^

It's OSU PSU and this yr trying to deviate from plan in playoffs vs just practicing all the things they are already good at.  Other programs spend that time practicing plays that go against tendencies.  Too much arrogance in just rolling out our bread and butter after 6 weeks to bring out new things. 

EGD

August 16th, 2023 at 9:37 AM ^

I don't know whether or not M's defensive line is better than OSU's defensive line in the abstract, but I do think M has a better defensive line relative to OSU's offensive line, compared with the matchup between OSU's defensive line and the M offensive line.

Hail-Storm

August 16th, 2023 at 1:49 PM ^

What gets me really excited is the fact that we have 2 running backs that can use that OL. Patient runners that can hit a hole and outrun secondaries.  Teams will have a hard time not stacking that box, and then you throw in JJ throwing to receivers that can get open (hopefully JJ can keep hitting them downfield like he ended the season), and still have to account for JJ's legs, is just an incredible box of fun things to know this offense has.  

I think of the line from Remember the Titans "Run it up Herman, leave no doubt!". That's how I hope they treat every game.  

bronxblue

August 16th, 2023 at 3:32 PM ^

Yeah, UM vs. OSU against the same offensive line might be a push but UM's offensive line is a clear step ahead of OSU's and that's where the real advantage comes in for UM.  I just don't see how OSU consistently moves guys like Jenkins, Graham, Grant, and Benny out of the way.

dragonchild

August 16th, 2023 at 1:52 PM ^

I scanned the numbers and, holistically, they're eerily close.  They both held Rutgers to 10, Northwestern to 7, and Indiana to 14.  MSU did a little better against OSU, 20 vs. 16.  They both got pummeled by Michigan, LOL, but again Penn State did a little better (41 vs. 45).

The glaring exceptions were their own head-to-head matchup, and Maryland.  They dropped 30 on the Bucks but got shut out by Penn State.

If any of this means anything (probably not), Penn State had the better defense last year -- they just couldn't stop OSU's passing attack.  Granted, scoring defense =/= D-line play, and this is completely hand-waving the context of each game.  Still, I was surprised at how equivalent their defenses were last year.  Sans Maryland, the sum total scoring difference between the two teams' common opponents was eight points!

So, pick 'em.  FWIW though, the reason I said OSU showed less is because Michigan unleashed their QB run game against Penn State and thoroughly discombobulated them.  It was basically an ambush.  Whereas, OSU was the last game and they went into it knowing their D-line couldn't stop Michigan.

RobGoBlue

August 16th, 2023 at 11:38 PM ^

If I recall correctly, PSU outgained OSU in that game (or it was damn close) and the difference was JTT had a monster game... couple sacks, couple INTs including a pick-six. 

I guess that's my #1 concern with OSU... not on the whole, but talent-wise they have about a half-dozen guys (a few on both sides of the ball) who seem capable of just going off for a day and winning a game almost on their own. Hopefully Michigan's roster develops into the same, but with greater consistency top to bottom.

dragonchild

August 16th, 2023 at 10:50 AM ^

By position though, he's a pass rusher who does everything except pass rush.  That's kind of a problem.  I really can't understand why he's not a full-time linebacker when they say he's good at the linebacker-y things.  And now that he's down to a svelte (for a DE) 242, he'll get mauled by O-linemen like never before.

gobluem

August 16th, 2023 at 2:59 PM ^

My interpretation is that he does linebacker things the best of all the edges. Not that he's really good at LB in a vaccum

 

He knows the defense, sets the edge well, can drop in coverage. He's like 3/4 of a complete edge. I would expect a heavy dose of Moore/Stewart on obvious passing downs though