Has Michigan's "traditional" expectations changed for good?
I am certainly not an old timer (41 years old here), but am surprised at how there seems to be a "shift" in expectations among fellow Michigan fans. The content of many posts I am seeing is labeling Michigan's season a "success" if we make it to a decent bowl game and still lose to OSU. This blows my mind and I think Bo would roll over in his grave. Personally, I don't see how any season could be a "success" when you lose to Michigan St. and (the most likely outcome is a Loss to OSU) a loss to our biggest rival.
November 1st, 2017 at 7:14 PM ^
"I'm not old!"
>yells at cloud
November 2nd, 2017 at 9:35 AM ^
November 1st, 2017 at 7:14 PM ^
November 1st, 2017 at 8:07 PM ^
November 1st, 2017 at 7:15 PM ^
November 1st, 2017 at 7:34 PM ^
What I truly don't understand is why some people choose to be unable to acknowledge the facts of our program. We haven't beaten our rival with a "real coach" for 13 years. That isn't of concern? Doesn't mean that our team is crap. Doesn't mean that the sky is falling. But, I do think it is a concern when we start to accept that losing to OSU is just a part of what happens now.
November 1st, 2017 at 8:20 PM ^
At least as far as OSU is concerned, I think there are some important details you're not acknowledging. Do yourself a favor and look OSU's last five recruiting classes ('13 to '17). Compare the rankings to ours. Notice the difference in the classes ('14 and '15) that are the source of 3rd- and 4th-year players.
IMO we can *start* having the OSU conversation next year. Recruiting isn't destiny, as (cough) Sparty has shown, but it matters and OSU will have a significant advantage in the short term.
They didn't experience a failure of program stewardship that partially contributed to one bad hire (RichRod) and indirectly led to another (Hoke). They went from Tressel (and excellent recruiting) to a blip of Fickell and then straight to a two-time national championship coach in Meyer.
Expecting Harbaugh to beat OSU "just because" isn't reasonable at the moment. As you might say, "Period. End of story." Give it some time and let's see what we get.
November 1st, 2017 at 8:31 PM ^
No I totally get it. Seriously. But, I / we / us have been "patient" for almost 15 years. When does the "patience" card lose its ability to be played anymore?
November 1st, 2017 at 8:37 PM ^
November 1st, 2017 at 8:40 PM ^
That sounds fair.
November 1st, 2017 at 9:01 PM ^
November 1st, 2017 at 9:43 PM ^
YEAH! & why couldn't that loser Kerrigan beat Tanya Harding regardless of the tire iron to the knee?
Who cares that the refs caused a minimum of a 21 point swing in regulation and that OSU made far more playing and coaching mistakes or bad plays than Michigan did, only our mistakes matter and are unacceptable even though we outplayed them and they didn't have to pay for their mistakes because of the refs? Who gives a shit about facts and the reality of both corrupt and horrible officiating?
Why don't you and I run a race for everything we own? If you fucking utter a word of complaint when I chop off your foot with an axe at the start of the race.... well, you'll be a fucking hypocrite!
November 1st, 2017 at 10:38 PM ^
November 2nd, 2017 at 2:43 AM ^
You lose some and you lose some. For 13 years.
21-25.
39-42.
40-34 (yayyy Fickel and OSU's worst team in 100 years!)
21-26.
41-42.
27-30.
The rest they got their asses handed to them.
November 1st, 2017 at 11:00 PM ^
November 2nd, 2017 at 12:57 AM ^
November 2nd, 2017 at 2:39 AM ^
It's gotten so old. We have been bitching about recruiting for 10 years now ("the cupboard was bare!"). Recruiting is not going to get better until the program gets better. That's just how it works. On the field success has to come first.
Mother fucking Purdue has beaten OSU more times since 2003 than we have. That's just pathetic. Bo beat Woody's team of the century in his first year here. Tressel beat a high favored Michigan team at the Big House in his first year. Upsets are expected in this rivalry and yet we can't seem to pull one off. Sorry but the "OSU conversation" started the minute Harbaugh was hired. Great coaches get the most out of their players and Harbaugh was able to get plenty out of an awful Stanford program in just 4 years there. I really don't fucking care about the excuses anymore, I really don't. We are in a perpetual state of "next year is our year!" while OSU goes on and makes the playoff every year. Just beat those fuckers.
November 1st, 2017 at 9:06 PM ^
November 1st, 2017 at 9:45 PM ^
November 1st, 2017 at 10:42 PM ^
November 1st, 2017 at 11:50 PM ^
November 1st, 2017 at 7:16 PM ^
November 1st, 2017 at 7:19 PM ^
I recently explained to my son how the mail works. That box, on the side of the house, a mailman brings mail to us and puts it there. Son responds, "every day?!?" Yes, lad, every day. He's 13. I just don't know. Some things you take for granted, but I guess the young need to be taught these things.
November 1st, 2017 at 7:24 PM ^
November 1st, 2017 at 7:31 PM ^
November 1st, 2017 at 7:38 PM ^
November 1st, 2017 at 8:00 PM ^
November 1st, 2017 at 9:28 PM ^
I flashed back to playing the original wolfenstein while someone kept watch for teachers in the computer lab.
November 2nd, 2017 at 4:44 PM ^
REAL floppies were 8 inches not those new fangle 5.25" ones. I still have a four drive cluster up in the attic to prove it.
November 1st, 2017 at 7:17 PM ^
I think it's just being realistic about what our team is. Lost the most guys to the draft, youngest team in the country. Going forward, especially with the way Harbaugh inserts freshmen so frequently, we should never be in another spot where our entire roster turns over in a year. Harbaugh gets some slack for this year, not so much going forward.
However, at least in my eyes, the traditional expectations have changed from Big Ten Championship to National Championship.
November 1st, 2017 at 7:54 PM ^
I agree with most of what your saying, but what "slack" should any coach get for going 1-4 against our Rivals? What program just accepts that is just how things are? The Coach at Michigan's job is to beat OSU and Michigan St. more often than losing to them. Any Coach that has a losing record against our Rivals (at the end of their tenure) is a failure. Period. End of Story.
November 1st, 2017 at 8:04 PM ^
What....exactly.....do YOU plan to do about it?
I mean besides rant on a message board.
I expect Michigan to be competing to be in the CFP every year at some point, realistically that is just going to take some more time.
Until then, I'm concentrating on not foaming at the mouth and trying to enjoy what I can about M football.
November 1st, 2017 at 8:19 PM ^
LOL, what am I gonna do!? I typed a legitimate post on Michigan expectations. As far as enjoying the rest of the season, call me negative, I won't enjoy much unless by some crazy chance we beat OSU. I will "enjoy" seeing our team get better, but not watching them lose again to our Rival. If we beat OSU, I will come back on this message board and eat my crow all day long.
November 1st, 2017 at 8:21 PM ^
which denotes all members I hold in good standing when my brother straightens out.
He is a hunch back, you know?
November 1st, 2017 at 9:01 PM ^
liberal use of the term, but arguably not actually legitimate.
Rather than adding your pearls of wisdom to any one of the plethora of the "state of M football team and expecations" threads and discussions, you created an entirely new one. Just for you. It would seem many find that an illegitimate thread.
Any-who......your "special thread" basically does nothing but rant at literally thousands of people indiscriminantly about your perceived drop in expecations for the program, based on something that was supposedly said by a very few people on the board. Suggestion....when someone says something specific that you think represents a lowering of expectations, perhaps respond to THAT person....in THAT thread. Hmm?
Many argue the standards have gone up. I agree. In Bo's days all he talked about was Big10 championships and Rose Bowls and I think think people, Harbaugh included, aim a wee bit higher these days.
The difference is only in how realistic an M fan is and how patient or impatient they choose to be about the current situation.
You have obviously chosen IMPATIENT!!!! and kudos to you for that. Some people don't.
I have yet to read on this board anyone writing,"We can lose to our rivals forever and I don't care." which is what you are implying. Other people look realistically at the situation, realize we are where we are, believe are going somewhere better, and resist spittle-flecked invectives aimed at noone in particular.....then they carry on with their lives.
I'll ask again....what is your point? What is your goal in posting this and calling "people" out for "accepting it." What are you actually going to do.....specifically.....to NOT accept it, besides be unhappy if they don't improve? What are you asking everyone else to do? Be less happy with the situation....like you?
November 1st, 2017 at 10:19 PM ^
November 1st, 2017 at 10:52 PM ^
November 2nd, 2017 at 5:02 PM ^
and winning the big ten championship. Not by how many bowl games his teams won. To be clear Bo hated losing and wanted to win every game, but the people who paid his salary and the overwhelming majority of the fans, cared about "The Game" more than any other game every season. In those days bowl games were viewed as a "reward" where teams went somewhere warm over the holidays to play a football game. That is one of the reasons why the big ten adopted the rule that a team couldn't go to the rose bowl, which was the only bowl available to big ten teams, in two consecutive years.
At one point in his career, IIRC the mid 1980s, in response to a question about which was more important, Bo admitted that he cared more about beating Ohio than winning a bowl. I was at Michigan through the majority of the ten year war. "The Game" was more important to us and to the team, so it was more important to Bo (not to mention he got to beat Woody). Had priorites been the other way around Bo would have won more bowl games.
November 2nd, 2017 at 12:56 PM ^
November 1st, 2017 at 9:44 PM ^
is legit as an attempt to troll the board, and also has been done to death already.
Suggestion, own your "expectations" instead of depending on everyone else to cosign.
November 1st, 2017 at 10:44 PM ^
November 1st, 2017 at 8:06 PM ^
November 1st, 2017 at 8:33 PM ^
November 1st, 2017 at 9:04 PM ^
in an elite football program.
November 1st, 2017 at 10:21 PM ^
Tough game last Saturday against Northwestern, huh?
November 2nd, 2017 at 8:24 AM ^
http://mgoblog.com/users/aa-forever
...dude is the most obvious Sparty troll on the board.