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James Naismith 

James Naismith 

What’s next, JUB? …

What’s next, JUB? “Everything is still on the table. Might even rehire Juwan for all we know”

Alex’s article about sums it…

Alex’s article sums it up. Things went on a straight trajectory downward after the contract extension. Number 1 seed, Elite 8, opening the season #4… to last in the Big Ten and the worst season since Dave Strack. Beilein left the cupboard stocked, now look at it. Whoever takes over certainly has their work cut out for them.

Not happy about the way everything played out, but at least now I can rest assured that all the people who told me “Warde knows what he’s doing, he’s the greatest AD ever, Howard had a great 2020 he’ll turn it around like Harbaugh did” ultimately did not know jack shit.

I want Michigan to return to glory as much as anyone else, but I really don’t know why I should have any confidence that Warde knows how to make a home run hire. What’s the path of least resistance here? Because that’s what Warde’s going to do. I hate seeing Michigan lose, but what I hate even more is how apathetic I feel about the basketball team. I watched about 3 games this year.

Idk, I thought it was fine…

Idk, I thought it was fine. She didn't actually make any incorrect statements in there. She admits that only $70 or whatever is from interest. It's a little odd to not follow up with a more impressive example though. Like, at historical rates of return for the S&P500, investing $5,000/month for 40 years nets you ~$30,000,000, and over 90% of that is interest.

Ehhhh that's only true…

Ehhhh that's only true within the last-- what, 10 months? AP's professional career ironically coincided with the lowest interest rate window of all time. Granted, he could have made a killing in the stock market. His earnings would have opened the door for private equity which did even better. But he didn't come from money and I doubt he received much guidance on financial matters at Oklahoma.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how much you make if your lifestyle is unsustainable relative to your future cash flows.

Lmfao a "shot to the face"?…

Lmfao a "shot to the face"? More like, Draymond flopped for no reason and everyone else, including his own fucking team, played on.

Giving up too quickly? Bruh,…

Giving up too quickly? Bruh, there’s 8 games left and they’re 8-15. They would practically need to run the table just to qualify for the NIT. They are ranked 316th out of 362 division 1 teams in defensive efficiency. There’s giving up and then there’s acknowledging reality. 

Well Commie High was started…

Well Commie High was started in 1972, by people who I’m sure you’d label communists. Rest assured Warde is not a communist, given his clear apathy toward the whole “paying college athletes for the work they do” thing.

Warde is a blind squirrel…

Warde is a blind squirrel who had a nut fall in his lap when he *checks notes* didn’t fire the prodigal son coach with a resounding track record of success, a .700 record at Michigan, and 1 year left on his contract— during a pandemic when no obvious replacement was available. What a bold, courageous move on his part.

If there’s anything Warde has shown us he’ll do, when push comes to shove, it’s… nothing. He has taken the path of least resistance at every turn. He let the media hire Juwan Howard. He did nothing with Mel Pearson despite knowing the allegations for a whole year. He did nothing to retain Bakich. He did nothing during Signgate. And he continues to do nothing as our football coaching staff falls apart and our basketball program is a tire fire. So I agree, we shouldn’t criticize Warde for things he’s “going to do”, because he isn’t actually going to do anything, ever. And that’s the problem. 

Clearly Jim pursued them. He…

Clearly Jim pursued them. He thinks they’re good coaches and he’s doing his best to assemble a great staff. It’s Warde’s and Sherrone’s job to ensure Michigan has the best staff possible, not Harbaugh’s. If the assistants think the better job is at the Chargers, that’s their decision to make. I don’t need to be privy to anything to know that Warde had an opportunity to retain them. If you want to pretend that there’s absolutely nothing Warde could have done, then the Chargers must be the better job by a long shot. Who are you to criticize people for getting and receiving a job offer they liked better? You’re like the ex-boss who whines about an employee getting poached by a rival firm that offered a promotion and more money. What did you think was going to happen?

And you are absolutely batshit insane if you think Michigan wanted or could have gotten Brian Kelly. Sherrone was the top candidate for the job, and nothing about the timing of Harbaugh’s departure changes that. You think that after everything that transpired this year, with Sherrone’s wins against PSU and OSU, Michigan was going to say “thanks but no thanks, we prefer the angry purple ex-leprechaun”? Even in your absurd scenario where that happened, how is that preferable to where we are now? Everyone but you would be beside themselves. It would be the Carr/Rich Rod situation except justified. I feel ridiculous just entertaining the notion, much less endorsing it. You’re the fakest fan on earth if you watched the last 20 years of Michigan football and you aren’t kissing Harbaugh’s feet no matter what the guy does, much less pining for Brian Kelly of all people. Good grief.

100% on Jim? You are…

100% on Jim? You are seriously a fucking idiot if you think that. Not a single one of the coaches who left did so without asking Warde for a counteroffer.

Jim Harbaugh deserves a…

Jim Harbaugh deserves a thousand statues and to be supreme dictator of the entire state of Michigan for life. Clink and Elston are not going to leave Michigan for a pay cut. If they leave, it's because they got offered a better deal. If you're upset about this, your anger should be directed at Warde, who's literal fucking job is to provide Michigan football with the best staff possible. Given what has happened to the b-ball program, I don't think he has a fucking clue what he's doing.

Honestly this is such a…

Honestly this is such a massive indictment against Warde. I knew the guy was a shit AD when Harbaugh interviewed with the Vikings post-2021. 2022 came and went and the same thing happened, and I was beside myself. I posted a thread here saying that we should be getting out the torches and pitchforks like we did with Brandon, and people here actually *defended* Warde and negged me. All I can say at this point is I'm eternally thankful to Harbaugh, the sole architect of the greatest 3 years in Michigan football history. I don't blame him for leaving town and bringing everyone he can with him, because it's clear that Warde is a born-on-third P.O.S. whose greatest aspiration is apparently becoming the next NCAA president. Michigan football is about to take a big step backwards. I like Sherrone, but the program is not going to sustain this level of success with Warde at the helm.

They didn’t even have to…

They didn’t even have to blow a timeout there, Campbell just panicked. There was 45 seconds on the clock. As an NFL coach you’ve got to know if you call a timeout, there is next to zero chance you get the ball back. So either have a play ready or kick the damn field goal. 

Brian has been pretty open…

Brian has been pretty open about not being in a good headspace at the time. The PSU game summary thread is devoid of actual arguments and full of morose feelings-ball takes about Harbaugh having a grating personality. Half way down the comments is the only level-headed take, coming from BronxBlue:

My unwillingness to believe that Harbaugh must be fired after an absolutely awful year during a pandemic in which nearly half of his starters have missed significant time and he's apparently down to his 3rd or 4th QB, with the likely replacements being a combination of a barely-.500 coach from another P5 program, a coach at an AAC program who has made it pretty clear he doesn't want to come here, and assorted assistants who have little track records is, of course, a massive character flaw.

Yes, I disagree with Brian believing Michigan fans aren't "losers" because they are disappointed with the historical norm for this program basically since the majority of people on this site have been alive.  If that's douchy so be it.

Your evidence is a thread,…

Your evidence is a thread, posted on the day of the 2020 PSU loss, with less than 50 replies? The only notable regular calling for Harbaugh’s firing in that thread is MGrowOld. And nothing in that thread even remotely resembles a “serious, protracted argument”. It’s the typical shitposting that comes after every loss.

The idea that MOST Michigan…

The idea that MOST Michigan fans wanted the Prodigal Son fired is absurd, bullshit revisionist history. Not even a majority of whiners on this board wanted that. There was plenty of groaning and BPONE resignation, but there was no obvious alternative. As Brian said many times, “if Harbaugh can’t win at Michigan, no one can”. And Harbaugh was winning at Michigan, he just couldn’t beat OSU. Virtually no one else but Saban and Dabo could either at the time though.

You might as well credit the…

You might as well credit the water boy. Or claim Alabama AD Greg Byrne (hired in 2017) was responsible for Bama's 2017 and 2020 titles.

Warde didn't hire Harbaugh. He gets a tiny iota of credit for retaining Harbaugh in 2020, but the pay cut was a slap in the face and should never have been implemented. And if there's one thing we know about Warde, it's that he'll take the path of least resistance. Retaining Harbaugh in 2020 was the path of least resistance. You don't fire the prodigal son who is clearly a great coach just because he had some bad luck vs. OSU. 

Head coaches have always been the linchpin of college football programs. It is the job of athletic directors to hire great head coaches, retain them, and give those coaches the resources to win. At Michigan, the resources flow freely, so it's really the former two that are most relevant. And Warde has seemingly been bad at doing them, allowing our greatest basketball coach and football coach of the modern era (arguably ever) to slip away. He bungled the Mel Pearson situation too. Now the basketball program is in the dumps and won't even make the NIT. I know people around here liked the Howard hire because he's a homegrown hero, but unlike Harbaugh, Howard had zero track record as a head coach at any level. Harbaugh had a better track record in 2007.

I have confidence in Sherrone because he worked for Harbaugh for 6 years and led the team to wins against PSU and OSU. I don't have any confidence in Warde though.

Very similar list to mine. I…

Very similar list to mine. I think I’m underrating 2023 PSU. That was a hard fought game under insane circumstances. It was also a must-win. Will forever be overshadowed by 3 monumental games that came after it, but it’s ultimately what made those games possible. 

With the tide of the rivalry…

With the tide of the rivalry in our favor like this? You better believe they’re selling out.

According to Brian, the 2023…

According to Brian, the 2023 OSU game was the most important football, some say, ever. I agree. 

1. 2023 OSU

2. 2021 OSU

3. 2024 Bama

4. 1997 OSU

5. 1969 OSU

6. 2022 OSU

7. 1976 OSU

8. 2024 Washington

9. 1998 Washington St

10. 2023 PSU

The notion that the NCAA has…

The notion that the NCAA has any say in this is fucking absurd. Fuck the NCAA. They are an anachronism currently spinning down the toilet. What do people think is going to happen? Is the NCAA going to send armed guards to block the doors to Michigan stadium and prevent the games from happening? Are they going to empty their coffers to engage in a massive lawsuit against Michigan when they themselves are being sued six ways to Sunday by exploited athletes all across the country? This is the easiest fucking thing in the world for Michigan to give to Harbaugh. If he can't provide it, Warde Manuel needs to be run out of town with torches and pitchforks.

It's incredible the way…

It's incredible the way people take for granted what Harbaugh brings to the table. You want good recruiting? Brady Hoke's vaunted 2012 and 2013 classes were ranked #6 and #4 in the country, respectively. Lotta good it did him.

In the transfer portal era, recruiting matters a lot less anyway. IDGAF how Harbaugh gets his players. The guys who come here end up winners.

Funny, I also thought of the…

Funny, I also thought of the 2021 Wisconsin game, just based on the thread title. That Wisconsin team started the season ranked #12 and lost to #19 PSU at home in the first game of the season. I remember saying to my dad, "Damn, when was the last time Michigan got a road win against a quality opponent like that?" Wisconsin went on to lose to Notre Dame at Wrigley two weeks later, but it was a weird game in which Wisconsin was leading in the 4th quarter and ND subsequently got a kickoff return and two pick-sixes. So despite Wisconsin's 1-2 record when Michigan went into Camp Randall, I wasn't super confident the team could pull it off. I actually went to the game though and thought it was interesting to see the players participate in the jump around, at a time in which the game was still very much up for grabs. Michigan dominated the 4th quarter to get their first win in Madison in 20 years, and the rest is history.

As bleak as the RR/Hoke era…

As bleak as the RR/Hoke era was, I feel like there was still a sense that things could turn around if we got the right people. When Harbaugh was hired I remember Brian saying "If Harbaugh can't lead us to the Promised Land, I don't know if there's anyone who can." That made 2020 all the more painful, even though it was obvious the COVID year would be weird regardless.

I have thought about this…

I have thought about this quite a few times over the last several years. JJ's unwavering confidence provided a small ray of hope during a very bleak period. I remember thinking at the time, "I'm glad the program can still inspire this kind of enthusiasm in the recruits, because it sure looks like a sinking ship." Oh how little I knew!

Of course he completely…

Of course he completely hooks it after being money the past 5 games 

It’s deja TCU all over again

It’s deja TCU all over again

The offense scored 45 points…

The offense scored 45 points against TCU. It was turnovers that lost that game.

An offense that has been in…

An offense that has been in the SP+ top 10 all year doesn't impress you? You aren't going to get flashy numbers on the back end of the season when you face the SP+ #4, #3, and #1 defenses in 3 of your last 4 games. The 2021 offense finished #19, the 2022 offense finished at #15, and the 2023 offense currently sits right at #10 after sliding from #5 prior to the PSU game. Season-to-season we've marked improvements. Heck, the 2016 team was #35 (!!!). 

The team's problems went far…

The team's problems went far beyond not having the right personnel. Losing to a horrible Toledo team at home (scoring just 10 points) was inexcusable. I distinctly remember watching the Notre Dame game the week prior, where the team had 4 fumbles lost, and thinking "this team is doomed". Was it because they were confused trying to run a completely new offense? Maybe, but if so that's just naivety and/or hubris on Rich Rod's part. Can't confuse your players so much they're fumbling kickoffs and getting manhandled by a MAC team.

Pro sports leagues are some…

Pro sports leagues are some of the most blatant violations of the Sherman Anti-Trust Act out there. Hard to get away with it if the players aren’t on board.

There was definitely a “fuck…

There was definitely a “fuck Pettiti” chant going in the Michigan student section, but that coward ducked out as fast as he could and then it was just Harbaugh and Sanristil speaking, which turned everything to cheers for the rest of the ceremony.

Based on past years and…

Based on past years and common sense, a 12-1 Big 12 Champ Texas is easily jumping 11-1 OSU sitting at home. As if the committee is going to snub mf-ing TEXAS to let OSU backdoor their way in for a Georgia rematch.

If it’s established fact…

If it’s established fact that a PI firm was involved (not sure on this but seems like it), then you’d have to be a fucking clown NOT to believe OSU hired them. There are no conceivable alternatives. MSU is the only other party who would stoop to that level but they don’t have the money for it. Case closed.

You lost me at “Twitter”

You lost me at “Twitter”

One salient thing people…

One salient thing people here aren't realizing is that Partridge just rejoined the coaching staff this year. He couldn't have been "involved" for very long, even if he was. And there's no evidence he knew about anything until Stalions was outed.

The answers to your…

The answers to your questions are:

1. Stalions was the sign guy. Every team has a sign guy. Every sign guy communicates what they know about the signs to the people calling plays. Who cares?

2. Coaches are pissed off because they are whiny losers and can't believe they didn't think of it before Stalions did. Also, Dan Wetzel's statements apply here. It's like if a bunch of Wall Street bankers who routinely engage in embezzlement started criticizing some petty thief who picked up an old lady's purse.

A show cause penalty for a…

A show cause penalty for a coach who was not directly involved is a horrible precedent and Michigan should fight it tooth and nail if it came to that. 

Stallions nor any Michigan…

Stallions nor any Michigan staff actually broke any rules. They did not in-person scout. The whole thing is a joke.

Having a staff member delete files is not great but it hardly changes anything. We got rid of him and accepted a 3 game suspension when it was going to be 2. 

People need to take a breath…

People need to take a breath. Losing Partridge sucks but the news drop from today doesn't change the big picture. 

Bill Self literally had knowledge of illicit payments and got... nothing. In a sport where individual regular season games matter a whole lot less. Being suspended 3 games is a substantial penalty given zero evidence that Harbaugh was involved in any of this. 

Partridge could have very…

Partridge could have very well found out when the "scandal" first broke, and started deleting files. At that point everyone knew what Stallions was doing.

I don't see why people think…

I don't see why people think this is inconsistent with TomVH's report. Partridge's "lack of cooperation with the NCAA" clearly stems from his deleting files or whatever.

Isaiah Hole is an idiot but…

Isaiah Hole is an idiot but the idea that Michigan backed down because “there’s stuff they don’t want to surface” or whatever is even stupider. If there were still more shit to be uncovered, don’t you think the B1G/ESPN/Thamel orgy would be wallowing in it as we speak?

Simpler answer is Michigan’s lawyers said “the case will be drawn out past next week and you won’t win”. Harbaugh said “fuck it, we don’t need this distraction, we will beat OSU regardless.” Ono said “okay well let’s not waste money and time going to court”. The end.

If they truly “have…

If they truly “have something” and Michigan thinks this is going to keep whatever it is from surfacing, Ono and the admins are much more idiotic than I thought. What independent investigation has the Big Ten even done? How could they have info that won’t be accessible to the NCAA anyway?

It’s much more likely that Michigan’s lawyers just determined they were going to lose the injunction, and Harbaugh doesn’t want it to be a distraction. 

I don’t buy your logic here…

I don’t buy your logic here. Has the Big Ten actually conducted an investigation independent of the NCAA? We saw the evidence they presented, and it was pathetic. If there was more dirt to be uncovered, you can bet your ass it would be leaked anyway. And there’s still the NCAA to deal with. Are you insinuating the Big Ten has evidence the NCAA won’t be privy to? That just doesn’t make sense.

The only thing that makes sense is that Michigan’s lawyers told Ono and Harbaugh they are likely to lose a drawn out battle, and Harbaugh decided he doesn’t want it to be a distraction to the players

This is a terrible deal for…

This is a terrible deal for Michigan. The Big Ten can’t stop Harbaugh from coaching the CoFoPoff anyway as it’s not a Big Ten game. Vacated wins, to the extent anyone actually cares, is still a possibility with the NCAA ruling. So all we’re possibly getting is, if Michigan beats OSU, Harbaugh will be there for them to play Iowa. I would 100x prefer Harbaugh to be there for the OSU game.

lmao now this is some next…

lmao now this is some next level thinking, I like it

You guys are really…

You guys are really overselling the PAC-4 additions. USC is the only actual blue blood. The new B1G conference is definitely no longer the Big Ten. It's Frankenstein's monster and it's held together by corporate TV contracts subject to supremely fickle free market pressures. Give that tenuous structure a big rattle-- like the departure of a flagship program that led the historical Big Ten conference for the better part of 130 years-- and you'll quickly find out that the B1G is a house of cards just waiting to collapse. Do you honestly think OSU cares about playing Rutgers and UCLA? They don't. If Michigan leaves the B1G, Michigan and OSU can and would create an out-of-conference protected game. Meanwhile, the SEC would come calling. 

This is really the most…

This is really the most egregious aspect of the Big Ten's argument. All U-M's lawyers should need to do is walk in front of the judge and say "Look, the Big Ten brought up player safety as a major factor in their argument, but this just proves how disingenuous they are. If it's really the case that player safety is at risk from teams knowing each other's signs, the entire rest of the season should be canceled. The Big Ten would have in the very least expressed concern over the revelation that multiple teams conspired to steal Michigan's signals. But they haven't. So either the Big Ten is being grossly negligent in regards to player safety, or they have ulterior motives for going after Michigan and are willing to make a mockery of the very serious issue of player health."