Where are you with Jim Harbaugh?
To me, there's no other coach for this team. He's our horse, whether we like it or not. I happen to like it.
Six.
Record versus rivals is Hokeesque. Still on the fence this year given the schedule and lack of an OL.
I mean, yeah, the record has been less than ideal. But let's talk about context.
We are a botched punt and an inch away from being 3-3 vs rivals, rather than 1-5. No, "almost" doesn't count, but it's not like we are far off from winning these games. MSU and OSU are both at historically dominant levels, whereas Michigan just came out of its worst stretch in history before Harbaugh got here.
The wins will come. And presumably, the ball will start bouncing our way every once in a while as well.
We’re definitely close, and literal inches from being 3-3 in rivalry games. But Michigan still had plenty of self-inflicted wounds that contributed to them losing those games. I’m of the mindset that losses are losses, regardless of the circumstances.
I’m all in on Harbaugh. I think he’s the guy to get the job done, and I love that he’s been willing to make changes for the best interest of the team when it’s clear things aren’t working. Getting Don Brown was a BRILLIANT hire, and I think getting Warriner will prove to be too. But he’s still got to get that OSU monkey off Michigan’s back. You’ve got to be good enough to overcome bad calls from the refs. They haven’t been so far. Michigan had so many chances to put the 2016 OSU game away and they couldn’t do it.
Can we finally cool it with the context talk? A win is a win and a loss is a loss, end of story. Did you talk about context when Minnesota was inches away from beating us in 2015 or when it took double overtime to beat Indiana? It took another overtime to beat them this year. But we don't talk about the context of those games because we won. So let's quit pretending our losses are anything more than that, losses. There are no moral victories.
And if you're going to say Michigan is a botched punt and an inch away from being 3-3 against our rivals, then you have to say that the only win against our rivals was versus a team that won 3 games that season.
You make a good point. Hoke's win over 6-7 OSU isn't legitimate though OSU did manage to win three conference games to include a win over 11-3 Wisconsin, yet Harbaugh's win over MSU is celebrated though the Sparties three wins were 4-8 Notre Dame, 2-10 Rutgers, and Furman.
just win
Exactly.
I like the current trajectory of the program and this offseason but he needs to prove he can win on the road this year against his rivals. It's fair IMO to say he's had some tough breaks in rivalry games thus far but he also blew a couple of those games he should have won with his inept offense and questionable play-calling situationally (see 2nd half @ OSU 2 years ago, last year at home against MSU).
I don't expect a NC, I expect to win the Big 10 in year 4 though given what he has to work with.
I want him here forever but he needs to prove he can field an offense that can win big games.
All in
5.0 Baseline
+1.0 for inheriting a 5-win tire fire and going to the brink of playoffs in year two
+1.0 for non-offensive line recruiting
-0.5 for whiffing on so many badly needed offensive tackle recruits
+1.0 for creativity and hustle in PR and recruiting
-0.5 for the occasional over-reaction on the Twitters. Bad look.
+1.0 for coaching up Rudock and Speight
-1.0 for never having a constraint play for Pepcat "package"
-0.5 for not telling Blake O'Neill to fall on it if there's a bad snap
+2.0 for hiring Don. Fucking. Brown.
-0.5 for 1-5 (really a complaint about 2 uninspired MSU O gameplans)
So... 8.0
If you're going to give +1 for coaching up Rudock and Speight, you might consider -1 for not coaching up O'Korn and Peters. If you need to flesh out that -1, toss in not calling a TO, as he admits he should have, when he knew that Sean McKeon wasn't supposed to be on the field to take the hand off he had never before practiced.
I don't know that I want to grade it on a scale, but where am I at with Jim Harbaugh? I would say that while last year was frustrating for reasons both within and outside his control, I am eager to see what a revamped staff and a team now almost entirely composed of his recruiting looks like. He definitely gets a lot of the credit for at least beginning to rebuild the foundation of a more familiar Michigan.
Just like at Stanford this will be a great year for Michigan Football. Good QB play and suffocating Defense puts us in the right position every game. "Narrative" will change this year. Looking forward to it. Go Blue!!!!!!
I think he's a victim of his own success. Going 10-3 with a roster that went 5-7 the year prior really gave a lot of people unrealistic expectations. He really wasn't left with much to work with on the offensive line. He's just now got a few guys along the line that are his guys with a little experience. QB is basically the same situation. The cupboard was incredibly bare (hence the O'Korn/Rudock transfers). Finally has some talent there, but it's young, inexperienced depth. I think anything below an 8 and you have unrealistic expectations. Michigan football really was dormant, with the exception of the Sugar Bowl year with Hoke, for most of the last decade.
Most people don’t realize the holes Harbaugh inherited on that roster. There was talent there for sure.
But look at the roster. He inherited a QB room that was Wilton Speight, Shane Morris, and incoming Alex Malzone. That’s something we’re still trying to overcome
Couple key misses with imbalanced numbers in recruiting classes and there are a number of positions where there was a serious void in depth and veteran presence. Which showed this past season when we trotted out the youngest team in the nation with very little in terms of veteran impact players.
His QB room now includes his own Brandon Peters, Dylan McCaffrey, the incoming Joe Milton (plus Zack Gentry who he recruited as a QB but now is a TE) and yet by most accounts the savior of the Michigan offense will be transfer QB, Shea Patterson. So it would seem that the QB room, and especially QB recruiting, still needs some serious attention.
If I was a girl and born after 1990, I'd be all ride or die with him.
He brings the type of players I want my kids to root for.
In 2014 we went 5-7 with a shutout loss to Notre Dame, losses to both Rutgers and Maryland, and a literal fistbump celebration after finally scoring a TD against MSU......to bring the deficit down to 24. 2 years later we were literally an inch and ref screwjob from winning the division and playing for a Big Ten title and playoff spot. He turned us around almost instantly, and if Hoke/Borges/Nussmeier weren't completely clueless on the offensive side of the ball the results the past 2 years would've had no one complaining.
He's got us right on the cusp of greatness, and this is the year I think he achieves it. Either way, he deserves as much time as he needs. Clemson is a perfect example of what happens when you're patient and trust the process, hopefully Michigan follows suit.
He's awesome.
Last year sucked.
And he doesn't have a racist on his team.
#PapaJonReschke
And Sparty Nation say:
#GoWhites
When he got hired I predicted (in writing) that he would win at least 50 games in his 5 years. That's my standard, and I'm sticking to it. He inherited a 5 win team. I wasn't expecting 10-wins in year one, but I don't think 8-wins in year three is reason to panic either. I'll admit the 1-5 "rival record" is annoying, but we're literally two seconds and two inches from 3-3.
28 wins through three years is plenty good enough for me. Do other Michigan fans - but mostly media and opposition - remember what we were between 2008-15?!? It's happening guys. The rising heat on Harbaugh is coming from Michigan State and Ohio State campfires trying to make themselves feel a little bit better about the fact that they feel it too.
We'll average at least 11 wins in the next two years. 50 wins in 5 years, and hopefully a Big Ten Championship and more as part of it. Raback it.
By now, you should all know who is my team.
Let me get this out of the way, I think Harbaugh is a good coach. A very good coach. Road trips to PSU and MSU have me concerned, but The Game on November 24 is of most concern to me.
Nonetheless, do any of you actually think Harbaugh inherited a situation worse than Franklin or even worse than Meyer (OSU on probation, coming off a 6-7 season, and then going 12-0 in year 1)? And who has accomplished more than Dantonio with arguably less? Franklin and Dantonio have both won Big Ten titles (Dantonio multiple titles) and Dantonio has gone to the CFP (and Franklin should have instead of Peterson).
After six seasons, Urban Meyer has two Big Ten titles, has finished first or tied for first in the East all six years (losing 3 tie breakers and ineligible to play for the Big Ten title in year 1), top 5 recruiting classes all six years except the 2015 class at #7, two CFP appearances, and a national championship. But there's the 31-0 loss to Clemson, the 33 point loss to Iowa, and the mismanagement of the 2015 season with 16 NFL draft picks (not including others on that team also recruited by Meyer and that were drafted in 2017 and 2018) culminating in the loss to MSU, With all that said, Meyer is at best a 9. Dantonio, Franklin, Chryst are at best 8 or 9. How in the hell can Harbaugh be considered any better than a 7?
Yes, he inherited a situation much worse than Meyer. Meyer basically took over for Tressel, Harbaugh has had to rebuild the mess created by two of the worst coaching tenures in program history. They're not comparable. After 3 seasons at MSU Dantonio was 22-17, after 3 seasons at PSU Franklin was 25-15, Harbaugh is 28-11 after 3 seasons. Dantonio didn't win his 1st Big Ten title until year 4 and....gasp.....didn't finish above 3rd his first 3 years. Franklin's Big Ten title team lost by 40 to Michigan. We'll see what year 4 holds in store for Harbaugh but yes, outside of Meyer who walked into a great situation, Harbaugh is doing no worse of a job than anyone else.
Don't know what letter grade to give.
Just know that I feel like he knows how to run a winning program and that I think at any given time it can come all together.But it hasn't yet and I feel like Harbaugh isn't flailing: he sees where the problems are and knows how to reasonably set about fixing them.
But even for the best coach, sometimes a reasonable fix works. Sometimes you need go back to the drawing board.
I just feel at some point he'll get it all in synch.
So grade?
Tactically B-.
Strategically A.
All in!
Very happy with the overall trajectory of the program. Some of those L's vs. our rivals might as well have an * next to them. It's not like we've been dominated.
I expect these next few years will be a lot of fun.
I'm nowhere, I've tried texting, phoning, it's like he's not even replying.
Great, he bought my wife and I a wedding gift. Also wrote on our wedding blog. I'm not making any of this up. It was verified through his purchase from Amazon. For that he will always be in good standing to me.
Love him and thankful he is leading this ship
He will get us to where we want to be, dare i say this is the year? Yes i do dare. this is it
Lets enjoy the ride
Hail!
Sorry to reply to my own post, but wanted to add a bit more:
i just keep thinking about the story line building this year. There is pressure all around from media and fans, we have the toughest schedule in the land, we got a real good qb in the fold (and depth there now), our defense is stupid good and deep, talent everywhere and recruits coming in. Handle your business and this story line will propel us to that top tier and we are they to stay until he decides to do somthting else.
Just feels like a dope ass movie is about to be made.
hail
I am 100% behind that sentiment.
Defense isn't stupid good yet until safety okay improves... I do think Dax hill commits .
Personally I could give a rat's ass about any ranking 1 - 10. What I do know is that his program is now fully implemented after a few bumps in the road. The players are his guys. And Im ready for the ride. I fully expect a return to glory, B1G titles and maybe a CFP title or three. Why anyone would doubt that is beyond me.
I would give him an 8.5 right now or a B+. He's completely got the pieces in place to jump that up to a 9.5 or 10 this season though.
7 or 8. Most important to me the program has not appeared to go backwards. Qb, ot, and wr have been disappointing so far position wise, with qb having some circumstances. Rivalry record rough but also competitive. Has made the coaching changes that seemed apparent. Like him as the coach and a guy, the way things are going on general seems positive and on an upward trend to me, almost all positions performing well and building depth. So though some close misses preventing him from being great, no major complaints at all, especially for college football where so much is changing all time.
How are we supposed to know “the way the coach has got this team geared up?”
are they geared up? how am I supposed to know? Don’t I need to see some actual playing?
I didn't freak out last year because I expected a step back. Preseason I predicted we'd go 9-3, which isn't much different from 8-4. I was mildly disappointed, because I felt a couple losses were in part due to bad offensive coaching (MSU and the bowl game). But then again, he had us in the OSU game when by all rights we should not have been. So it cuts both ways.
I also don't think last year is necessarily indicative of all that much. It *may* be, the way 2013 was indicative of a certain dysfunction in the Hoke staff. But it also *may not be,* since elite coaches who go on to win national championships often have a down third year. The fact that he hasn't won anything at Michigan yet doesn't mean he won't going forward. Dabo Swinney didn't look so hot by the end of his third year at Clemson and we all know how that's turned out.
For me, Harbaugh needs 5 years with the full confidence of the athletic department. By that point, we'll have a good idea of what he's capable of. CFP appearances/conference championships and/or a national championship would be one marker of success. But he may still not have won a national championship (it took Swinney 8 years), so for me success could also be measured by sustainability. If we are winning 10+ games every year, then that would demonstrate that he's moved us on from the boom/bust cycle that we've been in since 2005.
If he cant turn this I think the program is in trouble forever
I hope they somehow win the conference because MSU fans are unbearable. Totally fixated on U of M in spite of what their program does or doesn't do.
I'm still 100 percent behind Harbaugh. This season and seasons to come we will have good to great teams. Eventually, Harbaugh will start winning his fair share of the big games, B1G championships, making the playoffs and possibly a NC. I just hope he stays for the next 20 years and does not go back to the NFL.
It's pretty shocking to read some of the people thinking he's knocked it out of the park.
9 out of 10? Crazy town, insane, talk.
He's 1-5 vs rivals and had his worst year coaching in over a decade, last year. It was a terrible job. Two thirds and a fourth in our division. Wow. Brady Hoke stuff.
We all hope he overcomes this and believe he can.
To date he's a 6.5 out of 10. Nothing more.
We’re on the Eastside.
Looking a gift horse in the mouth, the thread
2015: A-minus
2016: A-minus
2017: C-minus
Averages out to a B. Overall I'm a just a little disappointed that we aren't yet the powerhouse that Stanford was in year four. The defense, all three years, has been elite -- so that has slightly exceeded my expectation -- but the offense is still as much of a mess as it was under Hoke.
All the dumb narratives about 'not beating rivals' and 'if he doesn't win [x] this year, then [y]' are for dumb people. Unless there's some off-field trainwreck stuff, I have no ultimatums.
I'd give a solid 7.
Where I'm at is, I think there are tons of "reasons" for the struggles the last 3 years, just as there were tons of "reasons" Rodriguez went 8-16 his first two seasons, and tons of "reasons" Hoke had an atrocious record without Denard at QB. The question that will be answered this year definitively is, are those reasons valid?
I think the only true disappointments of Harbaugh's career in terms of expectations, are the loss against Iowa and OSU of 2016, the MSU loss, and the South Carolina loss of 2017. The Iowa game was mostly inexplicable, but every college football team has weird games in a season. The OSU loss that year was with a QB who didn't have a throwing arm, an otherwise solid RB who fumbled at the 1 yard line about to go up but 2.5 touchdowns, and an officiating crew that openly fellated the opponent.
The loss against MSU 2017 was with a QB who blatantly couldn't execute a gameplan. Given his track record, it's hard to believe this was on Harbaugh, but it's possible.
They overachieved against OSU in 2017, undoubtedly.
In the end this season has a roster that is pretty much all Harbaugh, and will tell us what we need to know. Jury is still out, etc.
"They overachieved against OSU in 2017, undoubtedly."
Call me old school, but when the outcome is a loss, and one where they only scored 6 points in the second half, then it is not an overachievement.
True...the overachieving was almost exclusively in the 1st quarter when Michigan absolutely dominated. The next 3 quarters were barely achieving (sans "over").
The best way to grade JH is to compare his results to what is in his contract. If he met the basic criteria, but none of the 'extras', he gets a C. The grade goes up with each of the bonus requirements he meets. I haven't seen his contract, but I'd guess he's at an average of C+ or B- for the three years he's been here. Personally, I feel that is disappointing. 2018 looms large.
Last year was unsettling. We had two QBs out, our O-line was awful and it was a bad year. Coaches and teams have bad years. It was unsettling because we saw the wheels come off with RR and Hoke and our PTSD is kicking in. We also want to be Alabama or Ohio State with a ridiculous talent advantage over everyone and a 50/50 shot at winning a national championship every year. Harbaugh has the ability to get us there, but has had some bad breaks (literally Grant Newsome, Wilton Speight). Harbaugh is resilient and attacks each day with an enthusiasm unknown to mankind. There is no other coach I would rather have.
Bo won 80% of his games at Michigan. Harbaugh is at 72%. I bet Harbaugh is really close to 80% before he leaves.