Update-OT: Illinois AD Whitman Voted to Affirm Winning % Standard as recently as Feb. 26
A column in the Chicago Tribune today has shown that Illinois AD Josh Whitman actually voted alongside all of his colleagues, twice, in unanimous votes that affirmed winning percentage as the methodology for determining conference champions this season. I realize this has just been discussed, but please let this new information demonstrate the unreasonable aggrievement of Illinois and their fans.
The important paragraphs from the article:
But a rule had been set that the Big Ten champion would be determined by winning percentage. And Whitman twice affirmed this rule, according to a source with knowledge of the conference discussions on this topic.
In November, during a meeting of the Big Ten Conference Administrators Council, which includes the Directors of Athletics and senior women administrators, a 14-0 vote decided both basketball championships would be decided by win percentage. It followed the track the Big Ten set at the end of the football season, which allowed Ohio State to compete for the conference title.
They met again on Feb. 26 to reaffirm their vote, understanding feelings might have changed during an unpredictable pandemic basketball season. Whitman and his colleagues were unanimous again to stick with this ruling, the source said.
It's pretty clear that Illinois only wanted this rule to change once it was all but certain they were going to come in 2nd place in the conference.
A tweet updating the story by the author from a few hours ago:
Updated column:
— Shannon Ryan (@sryantribune) March 10, 2021
AD Josh Whitman's letter ripping the B1G for not naming #Illini co-champs w/ Michigan raised some fair points. But Whitman voted with colleagues TWICE to go with win % to decide champions, as recently as Feb. 26. That wasn't in his letter.https://t.co/41ZE0dCy1i
This is why you don't make public statements without thinking them through carefully. Now Whitman just looks like a hypocritical whiner. I'd be embarrassed if I were an Illinois fan.
It 'smore than he looks like a hypocritical whiner. He IS a hypocritical whiner.
Illinois fans much like Buckeye fans have NO SHAME. They don't care...
If, by “hypocritical whiner,” you mean, “giant douchebag,” then I agree with you.
March 10th, 2021 at 11:36 PM ^
Correct. The time to piss and moan was before you voted - twice. If you didn’t like it, don’t vote for it. IL greedily thought it would benefit their team till they got bent over.
Sounds like this man has a bright career in politics ahead of him.
Hey, no politics! :).
I want to also say, I think most reasonable people would support the idea of Co-Champions between the team(s) with the highest winning percentage and the team(s) with the most games won by traditional standings. However, it's a pretty bad look to only propose/support this policy shift once your team is bound to finish with the second highest winning percentage. Maybe this issue should have been raised prior to the season.
Yeah, if this had been the proposal up front (top winning percentage + most wins, if different), then I don't think anyone would be complaining about joint champions. But if the tables were turned and Illinois had played fewer games but had a higher winning percentage he wouldn't be arguing this position, and that's the problem.
Reasonable people would support the winning percentage and most games won as co-champs, but not after the season is over. That totally changes the dynamics of the last weekend of play. Illinois would play that last game against OSU with a lot more more to lose. Also, Michigan’s approach to both Thursday and Sunday would be entirely different given the proposed retroactive rule changes. That is why you do not make up rule changes at the end. I think we are saying the same thing, so just trying to amplify your point.
No one ever would take issue with co-champs when the criteria is set beforehand and then that criteria is met. This happens all the time and we go along with it. Even when silly tie-breakers are involved, when we know the rules, we roll with what those rules spit out.
When someone votes on a particular rule and then they want to backtrack on that when it doesn't benefit their team, that's some grade-A horse shit.
When you have sucked at so many sports for so long, desperation sets in when you get good at one sport that one time every decade.
Upcoming Whitman tweet in 3...2...1...: "My position has evolved since that time."
Let’s be fair here - that second vote is now almost 2 weeks old and soooo much has changed in the meantime - it’s only fair to have a third vote now, because. . . reasons
I am shocked, I say shocked, that an AD would say something regrettably dumb in public and a quick examination of available information would prove his foolishness.
Anyway, a lot is being made of a second-place finisher's complaining.
Aw, cut the man a break. February 26, 2021 was ancient history, all of 12 days ago. Clearly no one alive then could have anticipated there would be an issue.
If he's mad about this, just wait until he finds out that I've been sleeping with his wife!
I’ll eat my words in the post about this yesterday, knowing he voted on it about two weeks ago. He and Illinois had a time to address any grievances with the November rule inclusion. They didn’t. End of story.
This is embarrassing for him on two levels:
1. He clearly thought the February 26 vote wasn't going to leak and now looks like a complete hypocrite.
2. He evidently didn't believe his own team could beat Michigan, or he probably wouldn't have voted that way two weeks ago.
this really got under everyone's skin, huh?
So discussing relevant topics = under one's skin? That's a pretty dumb fucking interpretation.
Damn, this fanbase has sure adopted a little brother mentality. Luckily, a nice gratuitous "fucking" ensures that you are both a smart and tough guy!
The title belongs to Michigan. (More than) Daily threads with hundreds of whiners freaking out just shows that you're feelings are hurt by what he's saying and you think there's some truth. If you didn't, you would just laugh it off and ignore, as the response should be. Michigan won by the rules. If Indiana claimed a championship, would we have open letters to the Indiana AD in the Diaries? Of course not, it'd be laughed off. There's no need to debate nor whine.
“You care too much about this thing that is directly related to Michigan basketball that has news articles written about it and replying to threads on it only makes you whiney and shows that your feelings are hurt because you think it’s true” is an interesting take. A shitty take, but interesting nonetheless.
It's incredible how sensitive you are. I'm sorry your feelings are hurt over such a trivial issue. I truly am. They can't take the title away. The bad man can't hurt you! The 200 posts about it yesterday weren't enough, nor the open letter to AD Josh Whitman! We MUST protect the sanctity of the B1G championship at all costs!
I read no sensitivity within that thread. How does one infer sensitivity through the message boards? One could posit that -your keeping track of the number of posts and threads about the subject and yet posting here with one "original thought" and two replies to those countering your sarcasm- falls under the umbrella of "sensitive". Definitely irritated.
March 11th, 2021 at 12:25 PM ^
I would say down voting opinions that are logical but not in line with the preferred opinion infers sensitivity. I don't know if you specifically down voted anyone but there was certainly plenty of it for any post that didn't agree with "lol @ Illinois."
I’m not sensitive, my feelings aren’t hurt and I don’t think anyone is taking the B10 tittle away. I do think you are a moron and I also think you should feel bad for being a shitty poster. But please tell everyone how sensitive they are while counting the number of posts in specific threads about this topic.
I’m not sure you really understand what a Little Brother mentality is.
To agree to a set of rules and then decide after the fact that they were “unfair” is pretty much classic Little Brother thinking.
Our position is that the rules were fine all along.
I've said this in another thread, but its worth repeating. But I understand why they are doing this:
1. Illinois basketball has been mostly irrelevant since the 2005 NC appearance.
2. They were last in the tourney in 2013 - they would have been last year but...COVID
3. They will lose Ayo and Cockburn this year, and
4. They don't really have a stellar recruiting class coming in
This is their year really. The last chance for glory for the forseeable future. So they trying to grab on to as much as they can.
He's trying to bring his team some recognition and kudos that they kinda sorta deserve. We all understand why he said what he said. We understand why Ayo said what he said. But just saying something is not the right way to go about getting your point across.
Ayo can run-off at the mouth, he doesn't hold any 'official' title representing UI (or is it IU? - whatever, it's Illinois, so who cares). The AD, OTOH, cannot go spouting off like this. He could have said he has regrets that he didn't think of some alternative that would've recognized his team. But that's not what he said.
So fuck him...
Think about it this way. What if the roles were reversed?
Would Juwan being bitching about it? No.
Would fans or the AD be sending in letters of protest? No (well, maybe some fans will)
We would just accept being 2nd place and move on, because, quite frankly we have a bright future ahead. Illinois probably does not.
Exactly this. I think Underwood and Illini fans know that it's now or never. Ayo is 100% gone. Kofi is likely gone. Trent Frazier is a senior and probably had a good enough season to make the G League or go pro overseas. So their future kinda hinges on Curbelo, Miller, and maybe Nimari Burnett is he transfers there
"If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell."
[Edit: for those of you that like this quote, it's by Carl Sandburg, a contemporary of Lincoln. You can learn more about his work by visiting the University of Illinois which received federal grant money for the Carl Sandburg Preservation Project. ]
Like the quote, though minor correction in that he was not a Lincoln contemporary. It stuck out to me because I just finished a Erik Larson book on Nazi Germany and the US Ambassador at the time, William Dodd, who went to Berlin from a teaching post at the UofC. The Dodd family was fairly close with Sandberg -- and Dodd's daughter, a central figure in the Larson book, was reportedly more than a literary friend of Sandburg's at one point. Fun fact: Dodd, an academic, was way down the list of Roosevelt's choices, but FDR kept getting turned down when he offered to others. Tough gig, that ambassadorship.
Queue the 'my freedom of speech was blocked because someone put a #factcheck on me' crowd...
Who does he think he is, Gene Smith? Fer goodness' sake.
Illinois needs to sit down and stfu
Perfect example of a program that isn’t used to winning much because they certainly act like they’ve not been there before. You observe it from programs from time to time, they have a good year and they are all cocky. You watch, there will be at least one team in the tournament that will have some success and they’ll act like they are a regular.
Seems like Illinois is fussy because they know this is their best team in 15 years and who knows when they'll be this good again so it's just sour grapes that their best in 15 years still couldn't win the league. They really have no compelling argument other than being mad they finished 2nd
Yep, Illinois fans have no idea how to act. That's why you're seeing so many other B1G fan bases uniting in hating them. At least Michigan, MSU, OSU, etc. fans have had a taste of winning and success so we have some respect for each other and know even slightly how to act. Illinois fans have no clue
I now hate Illinois more than Ohio State and Michigan State combined. I'm sure that will change back to its natural order in time, with OSU and MSU 1 and 2 and Illinois an afterthought, but right they are numero uno.
Same, it's pretty impressive on Illinois' part honestly
If he wants to pay a bonus to Underwood for this pretend championship, more power to him, and he can deal with whatever fallout that might cause. But to publicize a letter like that after twice affirming the league's process is ridiculous. And all those Illni bros who puffed out their chests to side with him look ridiculous too. Most still seem to be doubling down and twisting their logic into pretzels to justify his stance and their support of it.
Man, the CHICAGO Tribune is busting the ILLINOIS AD's chops on this?
Journalists do still exist.
Do they though?
Whitman can call a press conference with Scott Frost and they can both declare themselves National Champions.
I am mystified why anyone the press honors this self serving drivel; meanwhile nobody seems to notice when Michigan stays above the fray (As Lloyd did in 1997).
Way to go fighting Ill-Whine-i's, you should be proud
Sour grapes.....